It's Easy to Say Gomen Nasai

[emperor]

Perhaps you've confused the Chinese ( who have their own culture)

The point I was trying to make was that apart from electronic and automotive goods, which the Chinese maunfacture themselves... there dosent seem to be a lot more to import]tako[/i] thing.
The only thing I can see them think twice about boycotting from Japan is steel - based on the current construction boom.

Dubs, who wouldn't last two days without ManUnited Tshirts, BritishPop music, Eastenders and Skysports

Youve got a lot of people down to a tee there... but im not one of them.

-ManUnited Tshirts, BritishPop music - youll see these in almost any developed country in the world. Irish people have broadened their gaze from just playing and watching native sports like Gaelic Football and Hurling. Soccer and Rugby have become very popular, mainly in part due to international success, as is the case with many countries in that situation.
-Eastenders and Skysports - nearly evry developed country in the world has their own versions of these. Rupert Murdochs' got a lot fingers in many pies...

As for not having our own culture - sounds like your simply trying to insult or get a rise outta me: hard to put things in your perspective when i dont know where youre from ..anyway, plenty of culture to speak of (we have plenty of our own sports, music and tv programs) but we are only 4 million people and if major corporations from a neighbouring country that speaks the same language (due to several hundred years of occupation) want some people to watch, listen and buy into certain things - given enough time theyll succeed.

[Buraku]

No, I'm not trying to get a rise out of anyone here with this whole Murdoch thing
and its true communism, and dictator Mao destroyed a whole lot of China culture

but Asia is not N.America where Canadians, the US and Mexico are on talking terms, and Asia is not Europe where there is the Euro, the English, French, Irish and Italians are all talking about European issues, and trade

Asia has great difficulty in this area
if things continue to de-grade in Asia, I can see Mainland China moving more culturally and move in trade towards S.Korea, Taiwan ( shocking ! ) and Canatonese in HongKong and the Mainland Chinese might continue this Anti-Japan loonyness,
China is thiking of a Japan boycott but even more so if people like Governor Blinky of Tokyo do some more racial outbursts

in the end it will just cost Japan

[Blah Pete]

And that guy in the photo above looks like he's a member of the Chinese Olympic team or something... ???

Is it just me? or does that guy look like he throws like a 12 year old girl that rode the short bus to school?

BB and Mercutio get half a point each. He is a shotputter on the Chinese Special Olympic team...

[dimwit]

Asian Wall Street Journal Editorial (11th April 2205 - no link)

Tiananmen Square's 1989 peaceful demonstrations were a violent uprising]

All of this is true enough, and the Chiniese version of history is equally distorted. But does it benefit Japan to be tarred with the same brush as China? I would that we would expect more of a democratic country.

[dimwit]

Given the current events in Canada, it seems Canadians want to be just like Japanese (in terms of corruption anyways).

[maraboutslim]

Well technically they are all gaijin.

...from a Chinese perspective!!

[/quote]

Off topic, but NeoNecroNomiCron is correct. There is no Chinese perspective. "Gaijin" always means "non-Japanese". So Chinese are always Gaijin. Americans are always Gaijin. Etc. Even if a Japanese is living in New York or Beijing, the locals are gaijin.

[Mulboyne]

Eighth Dwarf
Bloomberg: North Korea Calls Japan `Shameless Political Dwarf,' KCNA Says
April 13 (Bloomberg) -- North Korea called Japan "a vulgar and shameless political dwarf" as protests by Asian neighbors intensify over Japanese textbooks, which critics say whitewash Japanese atrocities in their countries more than 60 years ago. The textbooks "grossly" distort the Japanese occupation on the Korean peninsula as "self-defense of Japan and aid for Korea in its modernization," Pyongyang's state-run Korean Central News Agency said in a statement late yesterday...more...

[Neo-Rio]

"Only a country that respects history, takes responsibility for history and wins over the trust of peoples in Asia and the world at large can take greater responsibilities in the international community," Premier Wen Jiabao said during an official visit to India.

China can talk.

Let's see about respecting history - oh yes, the cultural revolution
and I'm not sure about winning over the trust of people in Asia, what when you have issues with Taiwan, a Communist regime at home, Tianamen square incidents. As for international responsibilities we can always talk about their own net censorship and near blatant disregard for international intellectual property. And I don't see the Chinese helping out anyone overseas. Japan pumps out more aid money than they do.

But let's face it, the security council was decided based on the winners of world war II, so that being the case it will probably take a World War III before any new members allowed. As long as China remains unforgiving, it'll never happen for Japan.

[Ketou]

So true. China is being so hypocritical. All this crap about Japan whitewashing history whilst the Chinese do exactly the same thing with even less subtlety.

In any case no matter what Japan does it will never be forgiven. Look at Yugoslavia, they are still killing each other over some battle that happened in the 14th century. F*cking nutters. People always seem to have a great ability to attach their identities to some historical event that had nothing to do with them. It's soooooooo pathetic.

[kamome]

Chinese hypocrisy notwithstanding, I used to believe that Japan deserved a permanent seat on the Security Council. But I'm not so sure anymore. The more you learn about Japan, the easier it is to question how ready Japan is to assume a greater leadership role. They have to be able to overcome nationalist sentiment and address the substance of Chinese/Korean complaints instead of sidestepping them by focusing only on their reactions to the textbooks, etc.

[FG Lurker]

China has a permanent seat and has not overcome nationalist sentiment. Hell, they encourage it!

From a current human rights perspective Japan is light-years ahead of China.

From a historic perspective they're about equal. Yes, Japan raped and pillaged China in WW2... But China has done likewise for millennia. The same stands for Korea -- there have been tit-for-tat wars between Japan and Korea for longer than anyone can remember.

Until recently I thought Japan probably did not deserve a permanent seat, but I feel now that they do.

I also think that Japan should adjust the constitution to better reflect their position in the current world. There'd be massive protests from Korea and China, but the end would be more (grudging) respect for a less-shackled Japan.

[altar]

"Until recently I thought Japan probably did not deserve a permanent seat, but I feel now that they do."


I really fail to see the logic in that... whatever.
This is not about comparing Japan and China's criminal records. Of course China's a filthy dictatorship which murdered millions of it's own people but that is an other issue.
The problem here is that the heavy influence of the extreme-right wing in Japan's institutions, administration (especially education) and government to the highest level is simply unacceptable for a country hoping to appear modern and sincere in it's apologies for WW2. The country wasn't forced to really repent by the americans who had just thrown 2 a-bombs on it, so the Japanese were let to develop a sense that they were the victims of the war and not an evil force comparable only to the Nazis.
Koizumi should be confronted by the international community for his visits to Yasukuni shrine. Hell, what would we say if the German prime was doing a thing like that?

[Ketou]

I don't think FGL's logic is so flawed.

The problem here is that the heavy influence of the extreme-right wing in Japan's institutions, administration (especially education) and government to the highest level is simply unacceptable for a country hoping to appear modern and sincere in it's apologies for WW2.

As opposed to China?? Who has a seat!

The country wasn't forced to really repent by the americans who had just thrown 2 a-bombs on it, so the Japanese were let to develop a sense that they were the victims of the war and not an evil force comparable only to the Nazis.

This is true and a shame. Although I don't think comparable to the Nazis, more like the British.

Koizumi should be confronted by the international community for his visits to Yasukuni shrine. Hell, what would we say if the German prime was doing a thing like that?

Yasukuni is a bit of a problem. Apparently the government has asked the families of war criminals to relocate the graves but they have so far refused to.
Also people don't elect politicians who bow to the pressure of foreign ideologies. Bush was re-elected for exactly this reason.

If a country as rotten to the core as China can hold a seat then why not Japan.

[GuyJean]

If a country as rotten to the core as China can hold a seat then why not Japan.

Have we forgotten another prominent member who recently started a war based on 100% certified USDA BULLSHIT!!?

Is it possible to become a non-member if you're proven to be full of shit enough times? Yeah.. That's it! There should be no such thing as a 'permanent member'; just an opportunity to prove you're good enough to hold an 8 year seat in the UNSC..

GJ

[AssKissinger]

If a country as rotten to the core as China can hold a seat then why not Japan.

Have we forgotten another prominent member who recently started a war based on 100% certified USDA BULLSHIT!!? ]

Nice BULLSHIT dude! The dark red tint instead of the classic standard black gives it special pizazz!

I don't know which should concern me more:

a) the fact that my government would create such a fabrication in order to justify a war based on my president's personal vendetta


or


b) the ineptitude of the CIA illustrated by their inability to follow through with their plan to plant the weapons they claimed would be there.

[devicenull]

What is nice here, is that China just has to say no, and Japan gets nothing. Japan does not deserve a seat.

[FG Lurker]

Until recently I thought Japan probably did not deserve a permanent seat, but I feel now that they do.

I really fail to see the logic in that... whatever.

(Learn to use the quote button. It's really not that hard...)

The logic is that China is claiming Japan shouldn't get a seat for a long list of reasons....All of which China is just as guilty of as Japan, sometimes more so.

This is not about comparing Japan and China's criminal records. Of course China's a filthy dictatorship which murdered millions of it's own people but that is an other issue.

Perhaps it should not be about comparing Japan and China's (and/or Korea's) criminal records......But this is what the Chinese and Koreans have made it into.

The problem here is that the heavy influence of the extreme-right wing in Japan's institutions, administration (especially education) and government to the highest level is simply unacceptable for a country hoping to appear modern

China and Korea are both far worse than Japan is this regard.

and sincere in it's apologies for WW2.

No matter what Japan says or does there will still be hatred running both ways across the Sea Of Japan to Korea and China for the foreseeable future. It will take a couple more generations at least before this will start to fade.

The country wasn't forced to really repent by the americans who had just thrown 2 a-bombs on it, so the Japanese were let to develop a sense that they were the victims of the war and not an evil force comparable only to the Nazis.

Yes, the Japanese did horrible things in WW2. But the history between China/Korea/Japan is horrible from ALL sides. That doesn't make it better, but it does put it into a bit of context. (As for the Germans, they didn't get two a-bombs dropped on them. If they had things in Germany might have been different after the war. Who can say?)

Koizumi should be confronted by the international community for his visits to Yasukuni shrine. Hell, what would we say if the German prime was doing a thing like that?

I think that as an individual Koizumi should have the same rights as everyone else. He should be able to visit and pray freely as protected by the Japanese constitution. Yes, it might be in bad taste, yes it might piss off the Chinese. These are things to consider. But he should still be free to do it.

[altar]

Are you implying I'm stupid or something here? I'll kindly ask you to avoid using imperatives when adressing me or I could start using some myself, as in: "Keep your advice and go fuck yourself. It's not that hard either." But then we'd be losing the site's nice debate atmosphere, get it?

China and Korea are both far worse than Japan is this regard.

China's not the one vying for a UNSC seat and concerning Korea, could you tell what problems the Korean right wing is causing internationally..?

No matter what Japan says or does there will still be hatred running both ways across the Sea Of Japan to Korea and China for the foreseeable future. It will take a couple more generations at least before this will start to fade.

Some French people still resent Germany, but Germany's behaviour proves nevertheless it has made full amend and has become France's prime partner. As long as Japan apologises on one side during state visits but then on the other has a totally different attitude at home, neighbors will get pissed and they ought to.

Yes, the Japanese did horrible things in WW2. But the history between China/Korea/Japan is horrible from ALL sides. That doesn't make it better, but it does put it into a bit of context. (As for the Germans, they didn't get two a-bombs dropped on them. If they had things in Germany might have been different after the war. Who can say?)

If China had massacred in Japan, and was stating otherwise in schoolbooks, the Japanese would be entitled to be utterly pissed. I really don't see what is so hard to undertand here...
What horrible thing Korea did are you referring to?
As for that argument about the Germans, I really don't get it....

I think that as an individual Koizumi should have the same rights as everyone else. He should be able to visit and pray freely as protected by the Japanese constitution. Yes, it might be in bad taste, yes it might piss off the Chinese. These are things to consider. But he should still be free to do it.

That is an incredible thing to say. When you're prime minister, you've got some responsabilities, he's not going there "as an individual". The terrible thing is: Koizumi would surely rather not go to Yasukuni, but his hands are tied by the far-right.

China's a filthy government, and a huge threat to world in my opinion. BUT although I don't like it, it already has a seat at the UNSC, so saying "if they got a seat then Japan ought to have one" simply doesn't make sense because then many other countries are on the list, way before Japan.
I don't like seeing China on the UNSC, and I don't want to see there a country who's prime can't even say no to a shrine visit by fear of it's extreme right wing nationalist whackos.
Japan hasn't purged the far right ideology scum in itself, and is only beginning to pay the price for it. END OF STORY.

[FG Lurker]

Are you implying I'm stupid or something here? I'll kindly ask you to avoid using imperatives when adressing me or I could start using some myself, as in: "Keep your advice and go fuck yourself. It's not that hard either." But then we'd be losing the site's nice debate atmosphere, get it?

Shit, you STILL haven't figured it out! Maybe try expending a bit less energy on idiot comebacks and a bit more on formatting (and for that matter spelling). You might try using the "preview" button too. Better luck next time.

China and Korea are both far worse than Japan is this regard.

China's not the one vying for a UNSC seat and concerning Korea, could you tell what problems the Korean right wing is causing internationally..?

China already HAS a security council seat. Never heard of the pot calling the kettle black?

As for the Korean right wing, who do you think throws up most of the anti-Japan bullshit in Korea? Preschool kids?

No matter what Japan says or does there will still be hatred running both ways across the Sea Of Japan to Korea and China for the foreseeable future. It will take a couple more generations at least before this will start to fade.

Some French people still resent Germany, but Germany's behavior proves nevertheless it has made full amend and has become France's prime partner. As long as Japan apologizes on one side during state visits but then on the other has a totally different attitude at home, neighbors will get pissed and they ought to.

Japan could grovel and offer to commit mass seppuku and it wouldn't be enough. The hatred runs over 1000 years deep.

Yes, the Japanese did horrible things in WW2. But the history between China/Korea/Japan is horrible from ALL sides. That doesn't make it better, but it does put it into a bit of context. (As for the Germans, they didn't get two a-bombs dropped on them. If they had things in Germany might have been different after the war. Who can say?)

If China had massacred in Japan, and was stating otherwise in schoolbooks, the Japanese would be entitled to be utterly pissed.

What do you think Chinese textbooks say about Chinese history? Do you really think they talk openly and honestly about Tibet? Mongolia? How about the Cultural Revolution? If China wants to tell Japan how to run its educational system then it should clean up its own first.

I really don't see what is so hard to undertand here...

Exactly. Maybe you'll sharpen up after awhile. I'm not holding my breath though. (And frankly I don't give a fuck anyway.)

What horrible thing Korea did are you referring to?

I said the history between Japan and Korea is horrible from all sides. What do you think the Koreans did to Japanese they captured in the many wars over their long history of hatred and fighting? Fed them and gave them a warm comfortable bed?? (I also said that it doesn't make WW2 any better, but it does give it context.)

As for that argument about the Germans, I really don't get it....

This does not surprise me.

I think that as an individual Koizumi should have the same rights as everyone else. He should be able to visit and pray freely as protected by the Japanese constitution. Yes, it might be in bad taste, yes it might piss off the Chinese. These are things to consider. But he should still be free to do it.

That is an incredible thing to say. When you're prime minister, you've got some responsabilities, he's not going there "as an individual". The terrible thing is: Koizumi would surely rather not go to Yasukuni, but his hands are tied by the far-right.

Many Japanese PMs have not visited Yasukuni. Koizumi does. I don't think he is forced to -- especially since he has stated clearly that he is not seeking another term.

China's a filthy government, and a huge threat to world in my opinion. BUT although I don't like it, it already has a seat at the UNSC, so saying "if they got a seat then Japan ought to have one" simply doesn't make sense because then many other countries are on the list, way before Japan.

Who would be ahead of Japan? Germany perhaps. And they are also being considered for one of the expanded seats. Who else do you suggest? Korea? Perhaps Vietnam! Yah, good idea.

I don't like seeing China on the UNSC, and I don't want to see there a country who's prime can't even say no to a shrine visit by fear of it's extreme right wing nationalist whackos.

If China is going to be on the UNSC then there should be some balance from Asia. How about Taiwan? I'm sure the Chinese would just LOVE that idea. Like it or not Japan is the best choice.

Japan hasn't purged the far right ideology scum in itself, and is only beginning to pay the price for it.

Neither has Germany! There are lots of Nazis running around although the gov't tries to suppress them through laws. The US is also leaning quite far to the right these days. And lets not forget the nutball extremists in both China and Korea.

END OF STORY.

Uh, sure...if you say so...

[cstaylor]

What is nice here, is that China just has to say no, and Japan gets nothing. Japan does not deserve a seat.

Until the U.N. has to whip out the begging cup and beg the Chinese for Japan's cash allotment.

Japan needs to test a nuke, *then* demand a seat on the UNSC.

[altar]

Wow Lurker, ok, wait a second: anti-Japan bullshit in Korea, cultural revolution, balance in Asia, nazis running around Germany.
This is embarrassing. You should stop thinking about all that, you're just going to get even more confused.

[FG Lurker]

Wow Lurker, ok, wait a second: anti-Japan bullshit in Korea, cultural revolution, balance in Asia, nazis running around Germany.
This is embarrassing. You should stop thinking about all that, you're just going to get even more confused.

See how confused you are? So much so that you think it's me who is confused.

I didn't notice your location was Seoul. It makes a lot more sense now though. I'll stop responding to your trolls at this point.

Good day.

[altar]

Maths Dude wrote:
FGlurker wrote Quote:
I find this kind of thing very depressing and reading about it makes me worry about the future of Japan.



You could at least learn how to use the quote feature properly... Or is that too modern for you?

hhhhhhhh Ok, I've checked some of your posts. You're definitely the lame guy on the forum.
Yes I'm in Seoul right now, but I was in Tokyo before, which I much prefer. But then again, you were stupid enough to think living someplace would skew my opinions. Perhaps knowing that I'm French will make you think that it "explains a lot about many things" etc, or some other moronic preconception. Anyway, you are right about one thing though, it would be best if we stopped responding to each other, since we definitely have nothing in common.

[FG Lurker]

altar is a big floppy donkey dick.

Aah, finally a post of yours that I agree with.

[altar]

altar has a big donkey dick.

I'm exposed

[devicenull]

What is nice here, is that China just has to say no, and Japan gets nothing. Japan does not deserve a seat.

Until the U.N. has to whip out the begging cup and beg the Chinese for Japan's cash allotment.

Japan needs to test a nuke, *then* demand a seat on the UNSC.

I have this crazy notion that going nuclear would kind of kill that "oh no, Japan is a victim" bullshit that they have been working so hard to promote. And if you think their relations with the rest of Asia are bad now.....

UN dues are based on economy conditions.

Maybe if if Japan wants this, they should actually pull their heads from their asses and atone for the shit they pulled that pissed off all of their neighbors.

Edit: boohoo, poor japan

[cstaylor]

I have this crazy notion that going nuclear would kind of kill that "oh no, Japan is a victim" bullshit that they have been working so hard to promote.

Yes, that IS a definite side benefit to the idea.

And if you think their relations with the rest of Asia are bad now.....

Well, considering three of five immediate neighbors are nuclear nations (NK, China, Russia)...

UN dues are based on economy conditions.

Of member nations. Japan, still listed as an enemy state in the U.N. charter, could refuse to pay, or pull out of the U.N. completely.

Maybe if if Japan wants this, they should actually pull their heads from their asses and atone for the shit they pulled that pissed off all of their neighbors.

I highly doubt China would support Japan's entry into the UNSC as long as American troops are stationed on her soil. History books are not the issue.

Edit: boohoo, poor japan

We'll see. Just like the weekend rioting in China, this will push Japan farther right.

[Buraku]

If a country as rotten to the core as China can hold a seat then why not Japan.

Have we forgotten another prominent member who recently started a war based on 100% certified USDA BULLSHIT!!? ]

Nice BULLSHIT dude! The dark red tint instead of the classic standard black gives it special pizazz!

I don't know which should concern me more:

a) the fact that my government would create such a fabrication in order to justify a war based on my president's personal vendetta


or


b) the ineptitude of the CIA illustrated by their inability to follow through with their plan to plant the weapons they claimed would be there.

Russia is a bit of trouble with this isle cr'ap, South Koreans are perhaps pondering some revenge
China is growing into a tough Dragon and would smoke Japan in a couple of seconds
best to leave the Chinese Dragon sleep and not let Governor Blinky
provoke it

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/b5f01a94-804f-11d9-bd50-00000e2511c8.html
http://cns.miis.edu/research/space/china/mil.htm
http://www.thestatesman.net/page.news.php?clid=8&theme=&usrsess=1&id=73990
http://www.fuckedgaijin.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10615&highlight=
http://www.spacedaily.com/news/china-04zk.html
http://forum.japantoday.com/Armitage%3A_US_not_required_to_defend_Taiwan/m_295567/tm.htm
http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13106
http://www.centurychina.com/cgi-bin/anyboard.cgi/plaboard/?cmd=get&cG=33730343332353&zu=33373034333235&v=2&gV=0&p=

North Korea seems to be a different problem

[altar]

Anyway, another reason why I don't think Japan should have veto power at the UNSC is that since it depends on the US for it's own security in the region it lacks the required independance on international issues.

[FG Lurker]

Maths Dude wrote:
FGlurker wrote Quote:
I find this kind of thing very depressing and reading about it makes me worry about the future of Japan.



You could at least learn how to use the quote feature properly... Or is that too modern for you?

hhhhhhhh Ok, I've checked some of your posts. You're definitely the lame guy on the forum.

Well, curiosity got the best of me and I had a peek at what you actually wrote. Glad I did as I'm now laughing my ass off -- if you wish to associate yourself with Maths Dude that's your problem. You do realize he is a self-admitted homophobe, xenophobe, and believes that women should essentially be kept "barefoot and pregnant", right? (No, I'm not making this up...Truth is stranger than fiction.)

Yes I'm in Seoul right now, but I was in Tokyo before, which I much prefer. But then again, you were stupid enough to think living someplace would skew my opinions.

Many (perhaps even "most") people's opinions are skewed by where they live and the media fed to them in said area. This could be skewed towards the popular opinion in the media, or a distrust/dislike of the media could skew against.

I simply feel that China, Japan, and Korea are all guilty of a long history of vicious wars and hatred. Japan was the most recently guilty party, but that does not change that it has been tit-for-tat for centuries. Further, all three countries whitewash their textbooks to make it seem as if they are the victims but never the aggressors.

China is pointing fingers at Japan and saying "LOOK WHAT THEY DID TO US!" At the same time they are trying to hide their own history of raping and pillaging in the back room under a bed. To me this reeks of hypocrisy.

Perhaps knowing that I'm French will make you think that it "explains a lot about many things" etc, or some other moronic preconception.

I have no problem with the French in general and have some very good French friends (one of who works for the UN, funnily enough). I'm guessing by your well-thought-out and mature comments that you think I'm American. I'm not.

Back to the topic at hand though... What do you think should be done to balance China's power and status as the sole permanent UNSC member in Asia?

From my perspective there are three options:

1. Do nothing and leave China as the sole Asian permanent UNSC member.

2. Appoint Japan.

3. Appoint another country.

Options 1 and 2 are clear-cut with either "yes" or "no" answers. The problem with option 3 is who to appoint: Taiwan? South Korea? The Philippines? Indonesia? All have some level of democracy, reasonably strong militaries, and would love the appointment.

However, why should they be appointed over Japan? In supporting Japan I consider the following (in order):

1. Level of democracy
2. Political stability in recent history (say, since the end of WW2)
3. Military strength
4. Economic power
5. Financial support of the UN

It can be argued that South Korea is now as democratic as Japan. But in all other areas Japan soundly trounces everyone else in Asia who might be in contention for an additional permanent UNSC seat.

I respect your right to disagree, but I would like to know your reasoning for it and what option you propose instead.