Fucking Rudeness

[Charles]

London Times: Japanese used to swear by code of good manners. Now they just swear

JAPAN has witnessed its first case of mascara rage -- at a subway station in central Tokyo. It began with a seemingly innocuous scene: a young woman, sitting on a bench, carefully applying her make-up. An old lady passed by and, as old ladies will, she vented her displeasure at the girl's bad manners...
...In every age and in every country older people complain about the rudeness of the young -- but rarely is the gulf between the two as great as in contemporary Japan. Exposed to the corrosive crudeness of Western popular culture, young Japanese are abandoning the sometimes stifling codes of politeness for which their country is famous, while older people look on in horror...
...The Tokyo Metropolitan Government has taken the step of convening a commission of eminent experts known, without a hint of irony, as the Study Group Relating to the Prevention of Behaviour that Causes Discomfort Among Numerous People in Public Places.
"A decline in manners, together with rude behaviour, is rampant," Tokyo's City Hall concluded in a document issued to members of the group last month. "The fact that many people turn a blind eye to rude behaviour leads to a decline in social standards and contributes to an environment that induces crime..."
[and now, what every beginning Japanese language student wants to know..]
...Japanese in such situations face yet another problem. While it is not true that the Japanese language has no swear words, standards of vituperation are certainly lower than in English. Even the word commonly used to mean "you bastard" -- kisama -- is simply an impolite way of saying "you".
The worst that one can do in daily speech would be Shine bakayaro!, which means little more than "Drop dead, you idiot!" Such is the dearth of salty invective that angry Japanese turn increasingly to a reliable English expression, pronounced the Japanese way: Fakkyuu.

...More...

[Samurai_Jerk]

[Charles]

That's one thing I don't like about Japanese. It just doesn't have the variety of filthy language that we do in English.

I feel just the opposite. Japanese is the only language I know of where you have such a restricted range of politeness, you can even be rude by being overly polite. You know about "inginburei," right?

[Samurai_Jerk]

That's one thing I don't like about Japanese. It just doesn't have the variety of filthy language that we do in English.

I feel just the opposite. Japanese is the only language I know of where you have such a restricted range of politeness, you can even be rude by being overly polite. You know about "inginburei," right?

I don't know the term inginburei (thought I just looked it up; so, now I do) but I do know about the whole Japanese thing of being rude by being overly polite. But that's not unique to Japanese. You can do that in English too. Passive-agressive people do it all the time.

[emperor]

Fakkyuu

Ive never heard Japanese use this in an offensive way - its always been with a smile on their face and theyre only demonstrating that they know "cool" words...

I saw http://www.electriceelshock.com recently and they played a neat little titty - entitled "Bastard"

[Steve Bildermann]

[Charles]

Japanese is *not* about insulting someone with sexual connotations it's about putting someone in their place!

FG can do this by either speaking in extremely polite Japanese and asking the other person if they can understand you being as to how they come from the countryside and have not had such a good education as you or by speaking slowly in English (or your own tongue) and then pausing to translate each phrase into Japanese accentuating the fact that the other person is a little bit lower on the social scale than you and perhaps doesn't have as wide a vocabulary as you. Trust me works every time!

Precisely. In Japanese, you must be skilled in the entire keigo system, you must know how to be polite in order to be rude effectively. Inginburei rules!

[dimwit]

Putting people in their place only works if the people give a shit. This is why old farts are so worried about young people not understanding Keigo the way they should. Many young people couldn't care less and realize calling someone a whore is an easier and far more effective at pissing off old crones and codgers that make up the 'elite' of this society.

As for rudeness of the young blame it on Shin-chan or overly indulgent parents. I've never seen any kid who has had his mouth washed out with soap and water like the good ol'days.

[Mike Oxlong]

Putting people in their place only works if the people give a shit. This is why old farts are so worried about young people not understanding Keigo the way they should. Many young people couldn't care less and realize calling someone a whore is an easier and far more effective at pissing off old crones and codgers that make up the 'elite' of this society.

As for rudeness of the young blame it on Shin-chan or overly indulgent parents. I've never seen any kid who has had his mouth washed out with soap and water like the good ol'days.

It's all about upbringing.

If parents allow kids to watch/read that tripe (Crayon Shin-chan), which trivializes and rewards atrocious behaviour, and refuse to be parents (they'd rather be 'friends' to their children), the problem is only going to get far, far worse...

[Maths Dude]

Japan is just 1 or 2 generation from America. Soon you'll be having drive-bys , rampant rape and murders in the ganglands. A huge drugs problem etc etc. Every generation is worse than the next. Imagine when the scum kids coming through now have kids - Japan will well and truly be fucked. I forsee the end of civilisation as we know it my young apprentices.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Japan is just 1 or 2 generation from America. Soon you'll be having drive-bys , rampant rape and murders in the ganglands. A huge drugs problem etc etc. Every generation is worse than the next. Imagine when the scum kids coming through now have kids - Japan will well and truly be fucked. I forsee the end of civilisation as we know it my young apprentices.

People have been saying that since the beginning of civilization.

[Maths Dude]

And they've been right. EVERY civilisation has ended in destruction. It will happen to this one - there is no doubt.

[katakori]

People have been saying that since the beginning of civilization.

plus, japan is definitely not the us. not the same history, nor cultural background, religions, values... if you have been here enough to get the meaning of being a gaijin, you also get that japan is not america's little sister. both might share some points, but not enough to follow the same past as if the us was the model everyone will end up following. if anything, you could predict the end of the us, but there is a chance they won't take europe or asia with them in their final decline...

[Maths Dude]

Amerika has planted her seeds of evil in many countries. Now they begin to flourish in Japan. No wonder the Arabs want the great Satan out of their back yard.

[FG Lurker]

Japan is just 1 or 2 generation from America. Soon you'll be having drive-bys , rampant rape and murders in the ganglands. A huge drugs problem etc etc. Every generation is worse than the next. Imagine when the scum kids coming through now have kids - Japan will well and truly be fucked. I forsee the end of civilisation as we know it my young apprentices.

"The world is passing through troublous times. The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have no reverence for parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint. They talk as if they knew everything, and what passes for wisdom with us is foolishness with them. As for the girls, they are forward, immodest and unladylike in speech, behavior and dress."
--Peter the Hermit (AD 1274)

"What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?"
--Plato


You know you're getting old when you can no longer remember the things that happened in your own youth. Not necessarily things we ourselves did in the past, but things done by people around us.

[FG Lurker]

And they've been right. EVERY civilisation has ended in destruction. It will happen to this one - there is no doubt.

Not quite right.

Each civilization has been superceded by a following one. It isn't like each time a great civilization flourishes and then fades humanity returns to the Stone Age.

[Maths Dude]

I somewhat agree with that FGL. But we only know of recorded history. Perhaps there was an even greater civilisation and it left nothing. I don't believe that God greated the earth in 6 days and had a smoko on Sundy. However I do think that humans have been around far longer than any 'digs' have shown.

[FG Lurker]

I somewhat agree with that FGL. But we only know of recorded history. Perhaps there was an even greater civilisation and it left nothing. I don't believe that God greated the earth in 6 days and had a smoko on Sundy. However I do think that humans have been around far longer than any 'digs' have shown.

Have you read any of the theories about the pyramids in Egypt? There are some pretty cool thoughts out there that don't get a lot of coverage.

[Ketou]

The sun is the same in a relative way, but you're older / Shorter of breath and one day closer to death
--GRW

Strangers passing in the street
By chance two seperate glances meet
Am I you and what I see is me--GRW

[FG Lurker]

The sun is the same in a relative way, but you're older / Shorter of breath and one day closer to death
--GRW

Strangers passing in the street
By chance two seperate glances meet
Am I you and what I see is me--GRW

There's someone in my head but it's not me.
--GRW

His lyrics are awesome.

[Ketou]

There's someone in my head but it's not me.
--GRW

His lyrics are awesome.

Definately!!
I was almost going to write that one too!

You lock the door
And throw away the key
There's someone in my head but it's not me.

so true!

[FG Lurker]

There's someone in my head but it's not me.
--GRW

His lyrics are awesome.

Definately!!
I was almost going to write that one too!

You lock the door
And throw away the key
There's someone in my head but it's not me.

so true!

The paper holds their folded faces to the floor
And every day the paper boy brings more.

I think I'm going to go home and watch "The Wall" tonight.

[Mike Oxlong]

The aged are also bloody rude! Especially in groups - just don't think/care about those around them.

Sure, sure - they constantly complain about the manners of wakamono, but are just as bad (in their own special way) as the young.

It's just everyone who's rude. Myself included, natch.

[GomiGirl]

I don't know what is so bad about a vacuuous bimbo minding her own business but just putting on the 50th coat of mascara. Now people playing loud music or god-forbid talking on a mobile phone I can kinda understand*.

But why is putting on make-up such a mortal sin??? There are manner posters around that put make-up do-ers in the same category as people not standing up for old people, putting their feet all over the seats, talking on a mobile, listening to loud music and other recalitrant behaviour.

*Note - anybody ridden a subway in Hong Kong lately will notice the difference immediately. Trains are like public streets where people can talk to each other and on their mobile phones and phones are allowed to ring without disturbing the WA..

[amdg]

[FG Lurker]

I have no problem with someone "touching up" their makeup on the train, or even applying the finishing touches to the day's makeup. The other day though I watched a woman get onto the train with absolutely NO makeup on, and start by applying liquid foundation. That was a bit much.

Putting on that much makeup on the train is kind of like shaving on the train... If some guy was standing there with an electric razor buzzing away I think quite a few women would be unhappy...

[FG Lurker]

[Ketou]

[Ketou]

The paper holds their folded faces to the floor
And every day the paper boy brings more.

That whole album is a great.

I think I'm going to go home and watch "The Wall" tonight.

Good idea!

Syd had some good stuff too.
It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here
And I'm most obliged to you for making it clear that I'm not here

[Pencilslave]

Japanese is *not* about insulting someone with sexual connotations it's about putting someone in their place!

FG can do this by either speaking in extremely polite Japanese and asking the other person if they can understand you being as to how they come from the countryside and have not had such a good education as you or by speaking slowly in English (or your own tongue) and then pausing to translate each phrase into Japanese accentuating the fact that the other person is a little bit lower on the social scale than you and perhaps doesn't have as wide a vocabulary as you. Trust me works every time!

Precisely. In Japanese, you must be skilled in the entire keigo system, you must know how to be polite in order to be rude effectively. Inginburei rules!

Personally, I wouldn't want to talk down to anyone or "put them in their place" I'd rather just be appropriately polite to everyone and only be rude if I was being treated rudely.
I don't get why putting on mascara in a public place is so rude, but I'll chalk it up to my ignorance of Japanese cultural mores.