To stay or not to stay- that's the question!

[vir-jin]

today is one of those days... utterly confused with J-life!

All the 10 years and more FG's- is there a point when you just accept Japan, as you would probably not think about another life when you had never left your country? I cope with Japan just fine. But today is one of these days where I unfortunately left my body to get some things in sight.

[AssKissinger]

3 Q's

1) How long have you been here?
2) What do you do?
3) What would you do back home?

[vir-jin]

3 Q's

1) How long have you been here? 3 1/2 years
2) What do you do? I study. My subject is Urushi- Japanese Lacquer. At a very good University. I'm happy with what I do. Icame to Japan for that subject.
3) What would you do back home? sittin on a front porch with some grappa, some sound and I would be killing time reviewing my best days in Japan,... shed some tears :D

AK, I don't think I am depressed, frustrated or want to get out of Japan. But sometimes this country hits me right in the face and tells me what a stupid Gaijin I am. 3 1/2 years old?
Does that ever change? Or do I have to change my perception of Japan?
Take it easy...?

[Taro Toporific]

If you see the light is blue, go.

[vir-jin]

3 Q's

1) Do you think you adapted to Japan concerning public life? private life?

2) pro and contra being FG in Japan?

3) And what I really want to know: How do you feel going back to 'your country' for vacation- I haven't been here too long, but going back for vacation means very easy life. And I often thought: Shit, I completely forgot about that!... my memory is already...

[vir-jin]

If you see the light is blue, go.

I am the J- walker

[vir-jin]

I can't leave! Too many things I would miss.

[vir-jin]

Many Japanese want to leave Japan as well and end up coming back.

[fatslug]

the question is ...do u have a huge tax to pay ?!?!? FUCK TAX.......im outta here !

[killjoy]

I fell in love and Japan disappeared, all I cared about was a girl. If you have one person you care about, Japan can be very livable.

I accept Japan and the things I can't change about this place, and I enjoy my friends and family. To stay here long term, I find having a family has been key, along with being challenged at work. And Tokyo has changed a lot so there is always something new to explore, but I have also taken at least one vacation a year to take a break from this place.

[Charles]

2) What do you do? I study. My subject is Urushi- Japanese Lacquer. At a very good University. I'm happy with what I do. Icame to Japan for that subject.

Well you can't leave now. The next step is becoming an apprentice, it takes about 10 years as an apprentice before you become immune to the poisonous lacquer and can make your own works without getting sick.

Here's a website I made with some interesting lacquerware.

[Andocrates]

If you have to think about it you're not ready to leave. No hurry, you have your whole life left.

I must say Taro's: "shingoo ha nan iro desu ka?" Is a true classic.

[maraboutslim]

If you see the light is blue, go.

!!That's about the time I decided to go home. Took me several years to pass as a Californian again. But hey, maybe I'll show up in Japan again. Could be soon. Who knows.

[jim katta]

About 2-3 years seems to be the average for the big decision of whether to stay or go.

Chief among the criteria you might need to consider is, really, what will you do back home? You sound like you are a student, so this may put you in a whole different bag. If you have no work experience, then you don't know how you'd do in the U.S. market. It really depends on what you want to do career wise. Can that be realized in Japan? Can it be better realized in the U.S.?

Personally, other than pure business, I no longer think the U.S. has that much over Japan. So the only thing I would suggest moving back for is if you have some solid business/money making plans to execute. If you're just talking about living, then I'd say stay in Japan. You'll come to appreciate your weirdness there, as long as you take periodic short trips outside of Japan to the U.S. and Europe.

[FG Lurker]

the question is ...do u have a huge tax to pay ?!?!? FUCK TAX.......im outta here !

If you think taxes here are bad, wait until you have to pay taxes somewhere else. I pay about the same amount in tax as a friend at home who makes half my salary. That is fucked.

[FG Lurker]

today is one of those days... utterly confused with J-life!

I think most FGs have days like that -- I certainly do. Actually I guess more than confusion for me it is days of constant frustration. They are not that common, but very tiring when they happen.

All the 10 years and more FG's- is there a point when you just accept Japan, as you would probably not think about another life when you had never left your country?

I think most FGs in Japan go through three main stages of adapting to life here:

1. The "honeymoon" stage. Everything is new, different, interesting, and exciting. This stage is great! You're here in Japan and experiencing a totally different environment to what you are used to. The little things that bother you are easily overcome by all the cool shit around you. "Culture shock? WTF is that? I don't have any culture shock!! This is awesome!" For many people this lasts 6 months to 1 year.

2. The "fuck this!" stage. All that new and cool shit I talked about above? It's newness has worn off cause you've lived with it daily for awhile... It's just normal life now, not new-and-cool. Now all the annoyances and fucked-up shit of life in Japan comes into very sharp focus. People living through this stage spend a lot of time saying things like "In <my home country> blah blah blah! Why the hell can't Japan get their shit together and do this the right way!!?!" I'm sure we've all heard FGs that have said basically nothing but this for months at a time... I know I was guilty of this too... This is culture shock, but because you've been in the country for awhile it is hard to see it as such. People who have lived in several cultures before usually have an easier time with this than very green FGs arriving in Japan. As with Stage 1, how long this lasts varies from FG to FG. Many FGs never escape this stage and leave Japan very bitter, swearing never to return. Some pass through it fairly quickly. It can last anywhere from a few months to a few years.

3. I don't have a good name for this stage... Stage of acceptance maybe? This is the stage where you manage to accept life in Japan for what it is. Take the good, try to accept the bits that drive you nuts. After awhile most people realize that every country (even their own!) has good and bad to it. No matter where you live some things will drive you crazy! People who get to this stage tend to turn into long-termers here, or at least leave Japan with an overall positive image.

The shift from stage 2 to 3 is gradual, not sudden. I think this is why the "big decision" to stay or go happens for a lot of people around the 3 year mark as Jim Katta said. Even once you've come to accept life in Japan there are still days where you feel totally insane! Sometimes I just want to get the hell out and never come back, and I've been here 10 years now! But for the most part I enjoy my life here very much.

3 Q's

1) Do you think you adapted to Japan concerning public life? private life?

2) pro and contra being FG in Japan?

3) And what I really want to know: How do you feel going back to 'your country' for vacation- I haven't been here too long, but going back for vacation means very easy life. And I often thought: Shit, I completely forgot about that!... my memory is already...

1) I can't answer this well... I am who I am, but certainly living in Japan has changed me as a person.

2) It could take months to answer this question! For me one of the big pros to being an FG is all the opportunity it presents. My career would have not taken this path if I had stayed at home, that is for sure. As for negatives... Well, I miss family and friends from home. Living in a big city adds various stresses that I don't have to deal with in Canada. I fixed that to a certain extent recently though so this summer should be a bit more relaxing.

3) I get bored out of my skull when I go home. That's not quite true actually -- I enjoy going home and seeing everyone, eating the foods I miss, hanging out in places I used to go. But I look around at everyone and everything and nothing ever changes! Really! People do the same jobs, live in the same places, do the same things... Would I have been like that if I hadn't come to Japan!? I don't know... But I don't think I can live that kind of life now. I need new challenges and new things to learn.


Well, that's my philosophical 2 yen's worth for today!!

[vir-jin]

Happy that I posted

After reading all posts I just accepted that I maybe have decided to stay way way back. As Charles wrote, it takes at least 10 years to get professional at what I am doing. I'll finish my masters next year in February and will try to get accepted for the PhD as well. I will have to stay something between 4-6 years from now to do that. Lurker, I guess I finished the fuck all stage during the first six months at my subject- I took the crash course. Japanese Lacquer causes allergy for most people- the longer you work with the material, the less allergy it will cause. Sometimes I would wake up in the morning not able to open my eyes, my eyelids at the same level as my nose. Just watching raw lacquer would cause allergy. No medicine, and summertime makes it even worse. Took about one year to get used to it. Today I could paint myself with lacquer and nothing would happen. :P

[Taro Toporific]

.... Today I could paint myself with lacquer and nothing would happen. :P

Now that's an art image that would promote your Japanese career.

[Charles]

Japanese Lacquer causes allergy for most people- the longer you work with the material, the less allergy it will cause. Sometimes I would wake up in the morning not able to open my eyes, my eyelids at the same level as my nose. Just watching raw lacquer would cause allergy. No medicine, and summertime makes it even worse. Took about one year to get used to it. Today I could paint myself with lacquer and nothing would happen. :P

Wow, I'm amazed you got immunity in just a year. That must have been torture, with repeated intense exposure. People say that artists have to suffer for their art, but that level of suffering is beyond the call of duty.

[Lifer]

FG Lurker - that was a great post. You said basically everything I had in mind. For me though, the final decision to stay didn't truly happen until I was about 8 years in. I had decided several times before that, but there was always a lingering doubt. I guess it really depends on the individual and the situation you find yourself in. I'm in the country so the thing I miss the most is the simple friendship that most Americans take for granted. Japanese don't just hang out together or drop by, so as someone else said, making a family here REALLY helps. Deciding to get married is what put the last nail in my coffin.

I have to say though, VJ, I STILL get days like you've had recently. Everything sucks, everything is fucked,... But I no longer have the luxery of thinking of an escape back to my imaginary paradise, and I've come to realize now that it doesn't exist anyway.

Home is where you make it, and there are good days and bad no matter where you live, so open another bottle of vino and think of something wacked to do tomorrow just to throw yourself a curve and put a smile on your face.

Or somethinhg like that...

[vir-jin]

.... Today I could paint myself with lacquer and nothing would happen. :P

Now that's an art image that would promote your Japanese career.

I couldn't move when dryed. But I found a solution for your idea
http://www.kenjitoki.com/ongoing_UK.html

[Mulboyne]

3 Q's
1) Do you think you adapted to Japan concerning public life? private life?
2) pro and contra being FG in Japan?
3) And what I really want to know: How do you feel going back to 'your country'

1) No. You have to make Japan adapt to what you mean by private and public life. Many foreigners arrive here and, understandably, want to "fit in" and generally make sacrifices and compromises in their life to reach that goal. That's OK if it is the life you want to live but I meet a lot of foreigners who suddenly realize they are playing a role rather than living their life. Japan is not a hostile place for you to live your life.
I worked for a Japanese company 20 years ago and I still remember vividly an American employee who arrived at 9:00am and left at 5:00pm every day. Everyone frowned on this and I thought I was morally superior to him by making myself available to go out with my bosses at all hours.
When I spoke to the guy, he said "I used to do what you did but I began to feel like the class clown. I also realized early on that I wasn't a candidate for promotion so I decided to set some rules for what I would and wouldn't do. It was very difficult for the first few months because I wasn't "fitting in" but, after a while, no-one was bothered." He reckoned the reason for that is that he had set his own routine and everyone came to understand what they could expect from him and what they couldn't. Unpredictability can be one of the most heinous crimes against society in Japan. If you want private time away from work or study, then you have to seize it and make the people around you respect it.

2) By my own vague understanding of a vague term, I think it is better to be a "fucked gaijin" in Japan than a "gaijin". I'm happy to discuss this in a series of lectures at the Tokyo Metropolitan Goverment offices. Attendance free, bring your own bento.

3) After living here for two years and returning home, I felt very disconnected from my friends' lives and from the city I thought I knew so well - and that was uncomfortable. After a few more years of coming-and-going, I found a balance. I didn't know what was on TV a year ago and, no, I didn't know that restaurant had closed but my friends didn't need me to know. So I gave up trying to keep up with their day-to-day lives and just worked out the important bits. Still, the toughest thing is explaining to a non-FG what Japan means to you. Watch their eyes glaze over as you say "But in Japan..." for the fifth time.

Glad to hear your moment of anxiety has passed.

[FG Lurker]

Mulboyne, a fantastic post.

I try to find a balance between "fitting in" (when it's important) and being myself. I can certainly relate to what you mean by being the class clown.

3) After living here for two years and returning home, I felt very disconnected from my friends' lives and from the city I thought I knew so well - and that was uncomfortable. After a few more years of coming-and-going, I found a balance. I didn't know what was on TV a year ago and, no, I didn't know that restaurant had closed but my friends didn't need me to know. So I gave up trying to keep up with their day-to-day lives and just worked out the important bits.

When I went home after about a year here I went through exactly the same thing... Reverse culture shock. It was terrible and very disorienting. It hit out of the blue and really fucked with my brain.

Still, the toughest thing is explaining to a non-FG what Japan means to you. Watch their eyes glaze over as you say "But in Japan..." for the fifth time.

OMG that is so familiar! No one can relate because they have never had any experience like it. They are mildly interested in hearing about it, but it has no real bearing on their daily lives... I must have driven some of my friends nuts after I got back... Sorry friends!

[Taro Toporific]

.... Today I could paint myself with lacquer and nothing would happen. :P

Now that's an art image that would promote your Japanese career.

I couldn't move when dryed. But I found a solution for your idea
http://www.kenjitoki.com/ongoing_UK.html

YES!
Carbon fiber-lacquer: That's just what I need to redo the interior of 1962 Cadillac Couple de VILE.
http://www.kenjitoki.com/carbontop.html
<--Carbon fiber-lacquer "spoon"
<--my Cadillac Couple de VILE.
<--a Japanese lacquer paint scheme

[aquamarine]

the question is ...do u have a huge tax to pay ?!?!? FUCK TAX.......im outta here !

If you think taxes here are bad, wait until you have to pay taxes somewhere else. I pay about the same amount in tax as a friend at home who makes half my salary. That is fucked.

I couldn't agree more with Lurker in regards to tax. Here we pay... what... 5% income tax? Back home in Canada I pay 35% income tax. Not exactly my idea of a good time.

I have only been in-country for 7 months and I have had only one major bout of home-sickness, but it was thanks to working too much (42 days in a row) so I cracked after not taking any breaks. Otherwise, I think I'll be here for a while, I'm working on my Japanese and going to be applying sometime soon for a full working-visa (only on Working-Holiay FYI).

So there you go, a little more insight. Do what you think will make you happy in the future. Don't do what you think MIGHT make you miserable.

[FG Lurker]

the question is ...do u have a huge tax to pay ?!?!? FUCK TAX.......im outta here !

If you think taxes here are bad, wait until you have to pay taxes somewhere else. I pay about the same amount in tax as a friend at home who makes half my salary. That is fucked.

I couldn't agree more with Lurker in regards to tax. Here we pay... what... 5% income tax? Back home in Canada I pay 35% income tax. Not exactly my idea of a good time.

It's a bit more than 5%, and it does go up somewhat with your salary. But it is still way better than Canada (where I am also from).

Sales tax is another thing... 14% in BC. Worse in Europe. 5% in Japan.

Of course there are also benefits to high taxes -- like free highways and free medical. Personally I prefer Japan's system of pay-for-what-you-use. I had no car for many years in Japan, so I paid no highway tolls. Now I have a car and I pay. Seems fair to me.

[aquamarine]

I can agree with the pay-for-what-you-use. It makes complete sense. Funny though that even with our Canadian "Superior" medi-care... that we have to pay for any trips on an ambulance... hrmmm...

Right now, sales tax back home in Saskatoon is 14% HOWEVER there are talks of bringing PST (Provincial Sales Tax) to 8%, making total sales tax 15%. Great.....

[FG Lurker]

that we have to pay for any trips on an ambulance... hrmmm...

At least an ambulance in Canada is likely to get you to the hospital alive. In Japan most ambulances do not have paramedics. They work a lot like a taxi with a siren... Phun phun phun!!

[deltaco]

But came back for a family emergency (My dad was in the hospital after a heart attack). I had to stay here and have not been back since 97. I actually get depressed that I am stuck here and not there off and on all the time. But then again I make a shit load more money here than I ever could have in Japan. But then, money isn't everything. Now I have established myself more here than I ever did there. I got bills and a mortgage and a good paying job. I would love to just say fuck it all and go back but now I can't. I'm pretty much fucking stuck here in the USA for now. Thank God I got out of the USA and had my fun oversease or I may have never done it. Enjoy Japan because I can tell you after 5 months back in your country will will be wishing you were back in Japan.

BTW, Today is one of those days that I wish I was in Japan. And what is funny it is in my blood. I think of Japan, my Japanese friends etc. everyday several times a day and not being there anymore can drive you nuts. Everyday for 8 years since I returned to the US.

So All I can say, is stay there and work it out. I didn't have a choice. Or I would still be there.

[maraboutslim]

1) When I spoke to the guy, he said "I used to do what you did but I began to feel like the class clown. I also realized early on that I wasn't a candidate for promotion so I decided to set some rules for what I would and wouldn't do. It was very difficult for the first few months because I wasn't "fitting in" but, after a while, no-one was bothered." He reckoned the reason for that is that he had set his own routine and everyone came to understand what they could expect from him and what they couldn't. Unpredictability can be one of the most heinous crimes against society in Japan. If you want private time away from work or study, then you have to seize it and make the people around you respect it.

Everytime one of our friends get a job with a Japanese company or otherwise engage in Japanese society, we need to tell them this story! This is some of the best advice on how to still enjoy life in Japan as a gaijin that I've ever heard. (heck, it's good advice for outside of japan as well).