Japanese Spouses of the Rich and Famous

[Russell]

"Waste not want not" is probably the closest standard English equivalent to "mottainai." Sort of an English "四字熟語", even.

There's usually an English equivalent (or two or three) to any of of those "this Japanese is unique" things, but people just don't want to know. Even commonly cited examples like "gochisou sama deshita" (I mean what the heck is wrong with "thank you for a delicious meal", or just plain old "thank you" which, in context, means exactly the same thing), and "gokurou sama," etc, etc.

So, how would you translate "gokurou sama" in naturally sounding English? Something like "You must be tired, take it easy"?

Edit: Now realizing that that may be a more appropriate translation for "otsukare sama".

I guess "gokurou sama" would be something like "thanks for your efforts", or "thanks for your hard work"?

[matsuki]

"Waste not want not" is probably the closest standard English equivalent to "mottainai." Sort of an English "四字熟語", even.

There's usually an English equivalent (or two or three) to any of of those "this Japanese is unique" things, but people just don't want to know. Even commonly cited examples like "gochisou sama deshita" (I mean what the heck is wrong with "thank you for a delicious meal", or just plain old "thank you" which, in context, means exactly the same thing), and "gokurou sama," etc, etc.

So, how would you translate "gokurou sama" in naturally sounding English? Something like "You must be tired, take it easy"?

Edit: Now realizing that that may be a more appropriate translation for "otsukare sama".

I guess "gokurou sama" would be something like "thanks for your efforts", or "thanks for your hard work"?

They translate fine, just like "Hey stranger, how are yah?" can become "Hisashiburi, genki?" where the usage doesn't necessarily reflect the literal meaning. (Though I'm tempted to say, "We Japanese" type language bigots could never defend any of their insecure beliefs when it comes to "nama Japanese.")

[Yokohammer]

"Waste not want not" is probably the closest standard English equivalent to "mottainai." Sort of an English "四字熟語", even.

There's usually an English equivalent (or two or three) to any of of those "this Japanese is unique" things, but people just don't want to know. Even commonly cited examples like "gochisou sama deshita" (I mean what the heck is wrong with "thank you for a delicious meal", or just plain old "thank you" which, in context, means exactly the same thing), and "gokurou sama," etc, etc.

So, how would you translate "gokurou sama" in naturally sounding English? Something like "You must be tired, take it easy"?

Edit: Now realizing that that may be a more appropriate translation for "otsukare sama".

I guess "gokurou sama" would be something like "thanks for your efforts", or "thanks for your hard work"?

I'm not thinking in terms of "direct translation" here, more in terms of what you might actually say in a similar situation. I think you'd hear something like "good job" or "nice work" in cases where a worker deserved to be complimented, but in most other cases a simple "thank you (see you tomorrow)" would suffice. The context gives it the required meaning.

You know the difference between gokurou-sama and otsukare-sama, right? The former is for subordinates while the latter is for people above you. Now that is a differentiation that is rarely as clear cut in the west, but is still conveyed through tone of voice, attitude, etc.

[kurogane]

"Waste not want not" is probably the closest standard English equivalent to "mottainai." Sort of an English "四字熟語", even.

Whoa, slow down there young man! An English "四字熟語!!!????? That just seems like cruelty to Asians, and PETA will be down on you like badgers on legless mice for that!

Just to split hairs, I would actually say that "What a waste" is the standard English equivalent to Mottainai just because both are vernacular and WNWN is a proverb of sorts. There is a Japanese version of that, but I can't recall it. It sort of has a Buddhist Groove to it, if I remember. Naseba naranu no ha hate ni nanika.......that sort of groove

"There's usually an English equivalent (or two or three) to any of of those "this Japanese is unique" things, but people just don't want to know. Even commonly cited examples like "gochisou sama deshita" (I mean what the heck is wrong with "thank you for a delicious meal", or just plain old "thank you" which, in context, means exactly the same thing), and "gokurou sama," etc, etc.

Yup. And to add to what Russell was on about there, the naturally sounding English equivalent of Otsukare, or Gokuro, or Osewa-sama, or any of those is that lovely and underused phrase, at least back at home here:

Thank you.

I actually thought Russell's options sounded less natural sounding, though I agree that is the sort of thing the Japanese phrases mean. But the natural phrase in Canadian is Thank You. Deference, hierarchy and all that sort of stuff are there, but we don't talk about it.

But Good Job, or a more elaborate compliment added is certainly appropriate like Yokohammer noted in his reply there.

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

Kurogane and Yokohammer are both absolutely correct, which means there's no way their translations could possibly be used. As any decent Japanese translation checker will inform you, the Fukyukanto Concise defines otsukaresama as "you must be (honorably) tired, honorably," so that is what must be used to convey the proper meaning of the Japanese and make sure that Japan is passed on correctly to the world.

[Russell]

"Waste not want not" is probably the closest standard English equivalent to "mottainai." Sort of an English "四字熟語", even.

There's usually an English equivalent (or two or three) to any of of those "this Japanese is unique" things, but people just don't want to know. Even commonly cited examples like "gochisou sama deshita" (I mean what the heck is wrong with "thank you for a delicious meal", or just plain old "thank you" which, in context, means exactly the same thing), and "gokurou sama," etc, etc.

So, how would you translate "gokurou sama" in naturally sounding English? Something like "You must be tired, take it easy"?

Edit: Now realizing that that may be a more appropriate translation for "otsukare sama".

I guess "gokurou sama" would be something like "thanks for your efforts", or "thanks for your hard work"?

I'm not thinking in terms of "direct translation" here, more in terms of what you might actually say in a similar situation. I think you'd hear something like "good job" or "nice work" in cases where a worker deserved to be complimented, but in most other cases a simple "thank you (see you tomorrow)" would suffice. The context gives it the required meaning.

You know the difference between gokurou-sama and otsukare-sama, right? The former is for subordinates while the latter is for people above you.

Nope, I didn't know that. Is the difference that clear-cut in Japan?

On a different note, this topic deserves a separate thread, methinks.

Something like "Japanese Lessons for Coligny and Russell".

[Yokohammer]

Nope, I didn't know that. Is the difference that clear-cut in Japan?

Yes, it's that clear cut. There are lots of others like that too.

"Ryoukai (shimashita)" 「了解しました」and "shouchi shimashita" or "shouchi itashimashita"「承知いたしました」are similar, although they are both positive "I understand ... gotcha ... righty-ho ... noted" type affirmations. The former is for subordinates or people on the same level, and the latter is for superiors.

And so on ... but in the interest of achieving smooth, efficient communication without making too much of an ass of myself I usually avoid trying to be too polite.

[kurogane]

Nope, I didn't know that. Is the difference that clear-cut in Japan?.

So clear it should be clear as day

That stuff is as natural to them as it is for most Americans to drag everybody down to the same level unless they want something (as seen by a Cdn).

It's also what makes ultra high level Japanese so much easier for Us than English is for Them, assuming We can dispose of or at least suspend our kneejerk egalitarian tendencies. Most of Them are simply not ever enculturated enough to get over their similarly ingrained hierarchical and deferential tendencies, or they throw the baby out with the bathwater and drop into that annoying skateboarder levelling routine, where they talk to their superiors like we're all doing flippy dippies at the skate park with our 'peeps' and 'Bros' grinds teeth in impotent vexation


Yokohammer,
Good example with Ryoukai and Shouchi there. I would also note that Otsukare and Gokuro differ according to role as well as status. You say Gokuro to the newspaper delivery guy regardless of his age, and he says Otsukare to you regardless of yours. The hierarchy can be distinguished through the use of -san (to the younger or inferior) and -sama (to the older and superior). If that makes sense..........

At the risk of preaching to the choir, according to that Kokugo scholar that appears(-ed?) on TV a lot, the key to effective polite language use is ease and naturalness. If you can't pull it off, drop a register and do it as yourself rather than trying too hard. So he always advises anyways. I like his advice: very practical and approachable. If I remember his name I'll post it. I think he tends to appear on Sanma ilk panel shows. He's one of the few guys on TV worth watching, MYHOMO. I tend to use Kyoto Keigo because it's so easy, but it doesn't always fly that well, and the other Kansai-ers don't always like it much.

[CrankyBastard]

The surest way to piss Japanese people off is by giving them an insecurity complex when you speak their language fluently.
Tone down your Japanese knowledge, and just act like the dumb gaijin they want you to be.
I've been doing that for years. I'm really good at it.
Though I slipped up last week when I mentioned 秋霖（しゅうりん）
Fortunately, everyone thought I'd mispronounced something and ignored me.

Then we carried on looking for dropped coins under the vending machines.

[kurogane]

HAHAHA. It is certainly a valid Way. I can't do it, but I admire it when I watch it being done, especially if I know better. I would disaagree they're all PO'ed by it, though, but it certainly starts the static chatter and takes over the conversation, which is dull.

I think your path is a good bet for those who can't be bothered to work hard enough to be superlative at it, but there are many trees in the forest, Grasshopper.............

[matsuki]

The surest way to piss Japanese people off is by giving them an insecurity complex

That's like giving Dubai sand

[wagyl]

Though I slipped up last week when I mentioned 秋霖（しゅうりん）

So you are the guy who wrote this article?

[Russell]

Wendi Deng -- Queen of the GoldDiggers:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/1372878/How-Murdochs-wife-won-her-ticket-to-America.html

How Murdoch's wife won her ticket to America
By Tom Leonard12:00AM GMT 02 Nov 2000

THE media tycoon Rupert Murdoch got a taste of his newspapers' own medicine yesterday when the Wall Street Journal published an investigation into the tangled romantic history of his wife, Wendi Deng.

The world's driest and least sensational newspaper published what appeared to be an expose of the private history of Miss Deng, 31, who married Mr Murdoch last year. It was the work of a team of its reporters working in Los Angeles, Beijing and Singapore, and was worthy of the News of the World.

The newspaper, which tracked down former boyfriends and a jilted wife in the course of its inquiries, said she "has come a long way since leaving China a dozen years ago". An authoritative spokesman for News Corp told The Telegraph last night that the Journal's story was "malicious nonsense".

The newspaper claimed that she had rewarded an American woman who helped her to get out of China by running off with her 53-year-old husband. Miss Deng, then 21, subsequently married the man but four months later he allegedly told her to leave on the grounds that she was seeing another man less than half his age.

Although the marriage officially lasted more than two years - long enough, the newspaper said, for Miss Deng to get a "green card" allowing her to stay permanently in America - her former husband claimed that they only lived together for four or five months.

Miss Deng began appearing at Mr Murdoch's side two years ago, having earned an MBA from Yale and joined the Murdoch-owned Star TV as an intern in 1996. She has never spoken in the press about her background.

Murdoch's feud with Blair over wife Wendi: 'Terminal' end of friendship over claims of 'multiple encounters' between ex-PM and tycoon's wife

• Sources claim that Mr Blair and Ms Deng had ‘multiple encounters’ of which Mr Murdoch was unaware
• The former Prime Minister has always maintained his friendship with Ms Deng is platonic
• The Blair camp insists the claims are 'ridiculous and untrue'

Moarrr...

And we all know that Tony always tells the truth...

[wagyl]

...as does the Daily Fail...

It all doesn't really make much difference to me, not even titillated by the images involved, so I don't care either way, and don't really need to know. But I suppose it gets pageviews and advertising revenue.

[Mike Oxlong]

Toshi Seeger, folk singer Pete Seeger's wife of 70 years and a close partner in his social and environmental activism, has died. She was 91.

http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Toshi-Seeger-wife-of-Pete-Seeger-dies-at-91-4659332.php

Iconic folk singer and activist Pete Seeger dead at 94

[Taro Toporific]

Iconic folk singer and activist Pete Seeger dead at 94

Bummer, but he had a good run.
(I've met him a several times. B.S.B.)

[legion]

this one always gets me

cos I think the other side has got us licked

[matsuki]

kevinhart[1].jpg

Kevin Hart's current gf...not Jap (half black/chai-knee) or a spouse yet but gottam!!

[Samurai_Jerk]

kevinhart[1].jpg

Kevin Hart's current gf...not Jap (half black/chai-knee) or a spouse yet but gottam!!

Damn. It's good to be rich and famous because there is no way Tyrion Bojangles would be hitting that otherwise. Black and (East) Indian tends to work pretty well too. There are a lot of hot Trinidadian girls as evidence.

[wagyl]

Tyrion Bojangles

I wonder how long it will last. It doesn't look like she is prepared to make any compromises, that much is obvious in that she insists on continuing to wear heels.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Tyrion Bojangles

I wonder how long it will last. It doesn't look like she is prepared to make any compromises, that much is obvious in that she insists on continuing to wear heels.

No doubt. Besides she's his version-up trophy that he left his ex-wife for after making it big.

[GomiGirl]

Tyrion Bojangles

I wonder how long it will last. It doesn't look like she is prepared to make any compromises, that much is obvious in that she insists on continuing to wear heels.

No doubt. Besides she's his version-up trophy that he left his ex-wife for after making it big.

Comments like these make me weep for humanity...


Before you get your panties in a knot...
This is not directed at anybody in particular - just the reflection on the general attitudes and the underlying (sadly common) values it demonstrates.

[wagyl]

Tyrion Bojangles

I wonder how long it will last. It doesn't look like she is prepared to make any compromises, that much is obvious in that she insists on continuing to wear heels.

No doubt. Besides she's his version-up trophy that he left his ex-wife for after making it big.

Comments like these make me weep for humanity...


Before you get your panties in a knot...
This is not directed at anybody in particular - just the reflection on the general attitudes and the underlying (sadly common) values it demonstrates.

Shall we go deeper? I would like to understand.
Is the problem that people feel free to gossip about relationships they really know nothing about?
Or is it more particular, that people are commented upon about their looks?
Is it that an element of envy or sour grapes might be detected in the comments (although I am not sure that there is any envy in actual fact)?
Is it that the comments can be interpreted as a wish for misfortune on this couple?

Is the fact that I have to ask these questions a symptom of the problem?

If ever you need a good cry, I suggest the bitchy gossip about this lady found here
http://www.lipstickalley.com/showthread.php?t=631686

[Samurai_Jerk]

Tyrion Bojangles

I wonder how long it will last. It doesn't look like she is prepared to make any compromises, that much is obvious in that she insists on continuing to wear heels.

No doubt. Besides she's his version-up trophy that he left his ex-wife for after making it big.

Comments like these make me weep for humanity...


Before you get your panties in a knot...
This is not directed at anybody in particular - just the reflection on the general attitudes and the underlying (sadly common) values it demonstrates.

It was more a comment on the shallowness of their relationship than it was on his ex wife.

[matsuki]

Is it that an element of envy or sour grapes might be detected in the comments (although I am not sure that there is any envy in actual fact)?

(for once) I'm not in the no-no comments here but are you really telling me you aren't envious that he's banging this?

kevin-hart-eniko-parrish[1].jpg

I sure am...

I think he's been with her awhile though so not so sure it's as shallow as it seems.

[wagyl]

Is it that an element of envy or sour grapes might be detected in the comments (although I am not sure that there is any envy in actual fact)?

(for once) I'm not in the no-no comments her but are you really telling me you aren't envious that he's banging this?

I sure am...

For me, looks alone (and that is all I know about this person) are not enough, and with the exception of extreme cases, looks are not a deal breaker either. Is the person fun and stimulating to spend time with? That is the criterion I use.

Of course, if I am just looking for conquests and bragging rights with the guys, well then that is a different matter.

Actually, I do know one more thing about this person: she is a professional clothes-horse and dresses like she knows she is going to be photographed in public, but still wears high heels. I suppose the outfit might require the shoes, maybe, but I doubt that any person chooses to wear high heels for any reason other than style. Unfortunately, I think this shows poor judgment on her part, not thinking about how they match with the rest of her accessories: black dress, black high heel sandals, small black boyfriend.

But I'm not sure if mentioning the Naruhodo Za World status of the couple is making Baby Jesus weep.

naruhodo.jpg

In fairness to them, research suggests that they have been together for five years or more. Some sources strongly suggest that they have been together since before he separated from his wife, the mother of his children. But now I have again covered all of the allegations in the troublesome comments (apart from her status as a trophy girlfriend) so I am really in for trouble now. No pudding for me tonight!

[matsuki]

For me, looks alone (and that is all I know about this person) are not enough, and with the exception of extreme cases, looks are not a deal breaker either. Is the person fun and stimulating to spend time with? That is the criterion I use.

Let me put it in bogan terms...I just want to shag her silly, not marry the sheila.

Judging by the twitter or whatever SN it was where she posted, I'm not too optimistic about her being mentality stimulating. Then again, some of the raunchy pics she posted for the world to see does seem to bode well when it comes to having fun so...

[Samurai_Jerk]

I think he's been with her awhile though so not so sure it's as shallow as it seems.

It also wasn't a particularly serious comment.

[Takechanpoo]

another sneak j-biach stole world-famous celebs dick

ee46f208908944f5bc5dc1b702559b87.jpg

Senventy-three-year-old Brazilian football legend Pele has announced that he is marrying Morcia Cibele Aoki, a 41-year-old Japanese-Brazilian entrepreneur. [Photo: Agencies]

Seventy-three-year-old Brazilian football legend Pele is set to marry his long-time girlfriend.

The bride-to-be, Morcia Cibele Aoki, is a 41-year-old Japanese-Brazilian entrepreneur.

The couple used to live next to each other in an apartment in Sao Paolo.

They started dating in 2010.

Aoki will be Pele's third wife.

Pele has five children from the previous two marriages

http://english.cri.cn/12394/2014/08/15/2941s840516.htm

[Russell]

another sneak j-biach stole world-famous celebs dick

ee46f208908944f5bc5dc1b702559b87.jpg

Senventy-three-year-old Brazilian football legend Pele has announced that he is marrying Morcia Cibele Aoki, a 41-year-old Japanese-Brazilian entrepreneur. [Photo: Agencies]

Seventy-three-year-old Brazilian football legend Pele is set to marry his long-time girlfriend.

The bride-to-be, Morcia Cibele Aoki, is a 41-year-old Japanese-Brazilian entrepreneur.

The couple used to live next to each other in an apartment in Sao Paolo.

They started dating in 2010.

Aoki will be Pele's third wife.

Pele has five children from the previous two marriages

http://english.cri.cn/12394/2014/08/15/2941s840516.htm

I wish them a happy life together!