JET Threat: Gov't To Send Japanese English Teachers to US

[Mulboyne]

Yomiuri: Japan teachers may get English training in U.S.
The Japanese and U.S. governments are considering the establishment of a program that would send young Japanese teachers of English to the United States to improve their English ability, it has been learned. Prime Minister Naoto Kan plans to expand cultural, intellectual and human exchanges between the two countries, in addition to security and economic cooperation as part of the government's efforts to deepen the Japan-U.S. alliance. The government intends to reach an official agreement that includes the English-teacher plan when U.S. President Barack Obama visits Japan in the middle of next month. The government envisions training young English-language teachers at primary, middle and high schools in the United State for periods of one to two years. If 1,000 teachers were dispatched to the United States for one year at an estimated cost of 10 million yen per person, the government would require about 10 billion yen annually to fund the program.

To aid English education in this country, the Japan Exchange and Teaching Program has brought foreign young people to Japan to teach English at Japanese schools. The JET program is administered by the Foreign Ministry, the Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology Ministry, the Internal Affairs and Communications Ministry and local governments. However, the government's most recent round of budget screening, ahead of the compilation of the fiscal 2011 budget, decided the JET program needs to be reviewed. In its subsequent budget request for fiscal 2011, the Foreign Ministry sought only 130 million yen, down 14 percent from the initial fiscal 2010 budget. To set up the new language program, the government needs to secure the financial resources, observers have said.

Done properly, this is surely a good idea.

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

Done properly, this is surely a good idea.

It's preposterous! Having English teachers that can actually speak the language totally ignores the tenets and traditions of English language instruction in this cuntry. Good Lord! How do you expect middle school students to pass their entrance exams on the translation of "Biophysical nuclear molecular technology in a post-feminist, neo-Confucian world as seen by 20th century Andalusian teenage support group members" when all the can do with English is use it as a spoken language? What is this cuntry coming to?

[Fullback]

Done properly, this is surely a good idea.

You surely must be joking? I would have to disagree. The Japanese government does not need to be looking for ways to waste 100 times the money spent now on the JET program. It would never be done properly. What government program is done properly? Can you name two? It would become just another organization corrupted by old men.

There are enough resources right now for anyone to learn English. In fact, no one can really give a good reason why Japanese need to learn English more than now.

Japan could simply stop teaching katakana in schools tomorrow, replacing katakana with the original word. Since katakana is roughly 90% English in origin, the result would be skyrocketing English ability, considering the volume of katakana used in daily use and in business.

And the cost for that would be zero.

I'm sorry, but if there was a true need to learn English more or better, people would be doing it. Send 1,000 Japanese teachers overseas for a year? You have to be kidding. It sounds like something from The Onion.

Do you think Japanese teachers want to go overseas to improve their own English ability? They would be ostracized by the old fart teachers and administrators when they returned.

Sheesh, even now, young Japanese with near native ability who grew up outside Japan because their father worked overseas mask their English ability because they are ridiculed at work. They are pigeonholed into a low-level job and denied management paths because they are still considered "poisoned" from their experience overseas. And it's almost 2011, for heaven's sake.

I say again, you can't be serious?

[Yokohammer]

For the benefit of those laboring under the misconception that the JET program is primarily about teaching English: it isn't. It's more about cultural exchange, and in that capacity it has been very effective. Any improvement in English skills incurred is a bonus.

Seen from that perspective, I agree that the new proposal could be a good idea.

[PileOWank]

If I'm not mistaken, when the enlightened bureaucrats at MEXT decided to draft their goals for teaching elementary school English here in Japan they managed to include clauses in the national curriculum about how children would learn English while simultaneously becoming proud of their Japanese heritage.

No doubt a program to send young, impressionable Japanese teachers to the US would include sufficient provisions that would require participants to tell Americans about the wonders of Japan's four seasons and tea ceremony and such while preventing their cultural identity from dangerous Western ideas.

[wuchan]

I could see this backfiring. J-teacher goes to the US and finds out how much their American counterparts make. Decide they need to unionize. Come back to japan and fail at forming a union or getting the wage that they think they deserve. Then take their new skills into business or some other field or leave japan.

[2triky]

I could see this backfiring. J-teacher goes to the US and finds out how much their American counterparts make. Decide they need to unionize. Come back to japan and fail at forming a union or getting the wage that they think they deserve. Then take their new skills into business or some other field or leave japan.

They will return to Japan riding black ships filled with a new sense of wonder and a cargo hold filled with nacho cheese and delicious foods from King Taco.

[Yokohammer]

They will return to Japan riding black ships filled with a new sense of wonder and a cargo hold filled with nacho cheese and delicious foods from King Taco.

And this, I think, is the point.
Figuratively of course, but the point nonetheless.

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

And this, I think, is the point.
Figuratively of course, but the point nonetheless.

Well, I hope it's not too figuratively speaking....shit, I've witnessed what Taco Bill and places like that have done to the figures of American women over the past few decades and I see a pretty fast cure to my YBF syndrome if the pretty little birdies here suddenly turn into hippos.

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

Yomiuri: Japan teachers may get English training in U.S.

Sorry to be a grammar Nazi again, but I was just thinking about this headline....Considering -- by local standards for those who remember -- that Train + ing = Traing, shouldn't this read: Gomiuri: Japan teachers may get English traing in U.S.?"

[Level3]

If it costs the same, then sending Japanese teachers to the USA to actually learn how to speak English would, in theory, be much better than funding the JET program.

Of course the J govt. would fuck it up. Without changing the insane cirriculum, it doesn't really matter how well the J teachers speak or not.
Will they house the teachers together so they can, like most J study-abroad types, just speak Japanese with fellow Japanese most of the time anyway?

If it's mostly women, how many will be lost to marriage?
How many J women will be lost when they experience a society in which they could have a future in the employment market beyond "office girl"?
Or not only actually be able to file a sexual harassment lawsuit, but likely even make a boatload of money out of it?
And yes, how many will be amazed by the teachers' union, vacation time, and very nice salaries these days in the US education system?

But even if this program brought back only 250 English-fluent teachers a year, it's surely worth far more than funding 3-year paid vacations for white Anglophones in the name of "cultural exchange".

Oh, and so many pro-JETs say "It's not really about the English, it's for cultural Exchange, that's what the E stands for, so we/the program shouldn't be held accountable in any way regarding English education"

Remind me.
What does the "T" in JET stand for, anyway?

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

If it costs the same, then sending Japanese teachers to the USA to actually learn how to speak English would, in theory, be much better than funding the JET program.

Hear, hear!

Of course the J govt. would fuck it up. Without changing the insane cirriculum, it doesn't really matter how well the J teachers speak or not.

Hear, hear!

Will they house the teachers together so they can, like most J study-abroad types, just speak Japanese with fellow Japanese most of the time anyway?

You mean there's some other way for Japanese to travel overseas? Surely you're not suggesting they mix with gaijin? What are you? Crazy?

And yes, how many will be amazed by the teachers' union, vacation time, and very nice salaries these days in the US education system?

Actually, Nikkyoso, the ultra-left-wing teacher's union, is one of the strongest unions in this cuntry and probably stronger than most unions in the U.S., so unionization would only probably be watered down in America. You want to teach 'em about unions, send them to one of the socialized western European countries like France or Italy.

But even if this program brought back only 250 English-fluent teachers a year, it's surely worth far more than funding 3-year paid vacations for white Anglophones in the name of "cultural exchange".

Hear, hear! I hate having to pay taxes to fund the Japan experience of some hillbilly from the Arkansas, chav from Essex or bogan from Dubbo.

Oh, and so many pro-JETs say "It's not really about the English, it's for cultural Exchange, that's what the E stands for, so we/the program shouldn't be held accountable in any way regarding English education"
Remind me.
What does the "T" in JET stand for, anyway?

It's Japan Education and Traing...(see above)

[Mike Oxlong]

For the benefit of those laboring under the misconception that the JET program is primarily about teaching English: it isn't. It's more about cultural exchange, and in that capacity it has been very effective. Any improvement in English skills incurred is a bonus.

IIUC, the JET Program is about promoting Japan abroad. You bring in a gaggle of young, impressionable, relatively privileged and naive uni grads, and you give them a relatively easy job with a good salary and perks, and you hold their hands and give them the working vacation of their lives. They go back to gaikoku and tell everyone how wonderful Japan is. The short term of their contracts virtually guarantees that they leave and spread the joy and wonder before the shine wears off.

[xenomorph42]

If it costs the same, then sending Japanese teachers to the USA to actually learn how to speak English would, in theory, be much better than funding the JET program.

Of course the J govt. would fuck it up. Without changing the insane cirriculum, it doesn't really matter how well the J teachers speak or not.
Will they house the teachers together so they can, like most J study-abroad types, just speak Japanese with fellow Japanese most of the time anyway?

If it's mostly women, how many will be lost to marriage?
How many J women will be lost when they experience a society in which they could have a future in the employment market beyond "office girl"?
Or not only actually be able to file a sexual harassment lawsuit, but likely even make a boatload of money out of it?
And yes, how many will be amazed by the teachers' union, vacation time, and very nice salaries these days in the US education system?

But even if this program brought back only 250 English-fluent teachers a year, it's surely worth far more than funding 3-year paid vacations for white Anglophones in the name of "cultural exchange".

Oh, and so many pro-JETs say "It's not really about the English, it's for cultural Exchange, that's what the E stands for, so we/the program shouldn't be held accountable in any way regarding English education"

Remind me.
What does the "T" in JET stand for, anyway?

Didn't know Whites only enjoy 3 year paid vacations! Damn, the rest of us non-Whites must be really getting screwed!

[Mulboyne]

You surely must be joking? I would have to disagree. The Japanese government does not need to be looking for ways to waste 100 times the money spent now on the JET program. It would never be done properly. What government program is done properly? Can you name two? It would become just another organization corrupted by old men.

There's always that possibility but if you start from the premise that no programme will ever be run effectively then I'm not sure what you think the government should do to improve any situation.

The biggest test will come when the programme hits a major problem. If you send a large number of people to another country over several years, the chances increase that someone will be mugged, raped, have a serious accident or even be murdered. A company I worked for had such a case, and their response was to cancel sending female employees abroad.

[Fullback]

Yes, I know I sound fatalistic.

I know this sounds ridiculously simplistic, but I don't think the government has to do anything. Governments skew markets.

Companies will invest in language training if there is a requirement or opportunity. There will always be people who are motivated to study languages. The true market need is always met, more or less.

If there was a demand for better English ability, the demand would be met, and wages for people in the industry would be high. Nova and Geos would be thriving and people would be lined up for training so they could snatch up all the high paying jobs that came with English fluency.

True markets never lie. Governments never tell the truth.

[Fullback]

For the benefit of those laboring under the misconception that the JET program is primarily about teaching English: it isn't. It's more about cultural exchange, and in that capacity it has been very effective. Any improvement in English skills incurred is a bonus.

Seen from that perspective, I agree that the new proposal could be a good idea.

I'm sorry, but I guess I'm guilty of laboring under the misconception.

Can you give me a few examples of the kinds of "cultural" things that JET youngsters do every week?

Do the American ones teach American "culture," such as NASCAR? Do the Brits perform traditional British cultural things, such as vomiting and fighting after pub crawling all night?

Would they be welcome to do their "cultural exchange" speaking Japanese in classrooms every day?

[Greji]

Do the American ones teach American "culture," such as NASCAR? Do the Brits perform traditional British cultural things, such as vomiting and fighting after pub crawling all night?

I don't know about NASCAR, but the I think they picked up the rest of your cultural examples by osmosis. I attended a Japanese University and all of my Senpai, Doukyousei and Kouhai had already perfected all of those other traits long before I arrived. So I think you might need some better examples to make your point, whatever it is......

[Mulboyne]

Companies will invest in language training if there is a requirement or opportunity. There will always be people who are motivated to study languages. The true market need is always met, more or less.

Well, taken further, you're arguing against any language teaching in schools. Or, indeed, the whole idea of schools if you think private companies should make all educational and training investments in their employees.

If, however, you do think language teaching is appropriate, then the next question is whether it is currently being provided effectively. If it isn't, then surely the government has a responsibility to raise standards. If one problem is the quality and ability of teachers - many think so - then planning ways to improve this seems a better option than leaving things as they stand.

[Yokohammer]

Can you give me a few examples of the kinds of "cultural" things that JET youngsters do every week?

They assist with English teaching at schools. But that's not the primary purpose of them being here. I think Mike Oxlong described it best above. They're here for a while. They hang out with the Japanese kids and other teachers. They get to experience Japan and its culture first hand, and get paid while doing it. They have a good time (of course there will always be the few who don't enjoy themselves), then they go home and spread the word that Japan is a pretty cool place. Some of them come back in various capacities. It's cultural exchange, although biased somewhat toward promoting Japan and Japanese culture abroad.

[Fullback]

Well, taken further, you're arguing against any language teaching in schools. Or, indeed, the whole idea of schools if you think private companies should make all educational and training investments in their employees.

If, however, you do think language teaching is appropriate, then the next question is whether it is currently being provided effectively. If it isn't, then surely the government has a responsibility to raise standards. If one problem is the quality and ability of teachers - many think so - then planning ways to improve this seems a better option than leaving things as they stand.

I'm not arguing that. That kind of stretch seems uncharacteristic of you. You seem more level-headed than that.

OK, let's start here: do you think English should be a mandatory subject in Japanese schools?

What languages should be mandatory in what countries?

My position is that there are bigger fish to fry than shoving English down the throat of every child in Japan. Japanese is the language of success in Japan, and Chinese will likely be the language of success in the future for more Japanese than English will be.

Yes, I believe languages should be available and taught in schools. I see nothing evil about my opinion that businesses should also be in the business of working with schools to make sure languages of importance are available and students are encouraged to study them.

Business should also be encouraged to financially invest in language programs in schools.

Japanese youth are facing a rocky, uphill road. Their generation will struggle with perhaps the worst case of a declining standard of living in modern times.

I think this new proposed program is a waste of money. How much are you paying in taxes in Japan? I'm taxed out and I've never been a fan of any government anyway. No bureaucracy has ever solved a problem. They just suck tax blood from us and feed on it.

[Mulboyne]

I didn't think for a moment you were advocating the abolition of schools but if you can extend an argument to an undesirable outcome then it obliges you to start drawing lines which is where more discussion can take place.

You have drawn a line and agreed there should be language teaching in schools. You can certainly make a case that English might not be the best option but it's no slam dunk that Chinese should replace it. Whichever language you go for, you have to ensure that teachers are trained to teach it effectively so we get back to the question of how to go about it. If the government's current proposal is misguided then we'll still need another if current training isn't delivering the goods. Doing nothing makes little sense.

Finding the money to pay for education is a genuine concern. However, companies pay taxes too. Why should they be obliged to bear additional costs and fund high school language education? They aren't the only beneficiaries of second language competence in society.

Corporate requirements and time horizons also aren't necessarily in synch with society's needs in general. Or even their own. Companies worldwide were crying out for Japanese speakers even into the early nineties but there would have been greater opportunities for them if they'd sought out Chinese speakers instead.

Corporations may lose interest in China if the economy there goes into a tailspin but we'll still want to understand the country, especially if upheaval threatens wider political stability. Some of the US problems in the Middle East are down to a lack of Arabic speakers and that's never been a top demand by corporate America.

[Ganma]

I don't know if teachers English skills really are the problem. Many high school and junior high teachers have more than adequate skills. And I don't think the way the teach is as sucky as people make out. How many people do you know back home who speak fluent German, French, Spanish etc... after studying at school for years? I can't see a difference. If they really want to improve English ability in Japan the education system has to move away from the singular Japanese education model and increase the number of schools that have full English education and give students the choice as to what language they want to be their main one for business purposes. Countries like Hong Kong, Malaysia and India offer these options. Why not Japan.

[IparryU]

Easy and simple solution that is used world wide:
1. dont hire a non-native to teach a foereign language
2. get some FG that can/can't speak the country's language (does it matter)
3. give the FG that is teaching the FG language the normal (== same as other teachers) package and responsibilities aka "faculty" status
4. never invest into some silly program to give Nipponjin their pride to teach a foreign langage in Japanese to Japanese ppl..... no no

My Spanish* and French teacher in middle school was an FG, had horrible English, but everyone learned the languages to be able to have a basic conversation or at least order food.

Will Nippon do this? No.

*Q: Why the fuck is IPU taking spanish arnt you mexican? A: Yes, I wanted a fuckin A but got a D because it was Spain Spanish and mexicans speak like pesants... errr

[Screwed Up Eyes]

Easy and simple solution that is used world wide:
1. dont hire a non-native to teach a foereign language
2. get some FG that can/can't speak the country's language (does it matter)
3. give the FG that is teaching the FG language the normal (== same as other teachers) package and responsibilities aka "faculty" status
4. never invest into some silly program to give Nipponjin their pride to teach a foreign langage in Japanese to Japanese ppl..... no no

My Spanish* and French teacher in middle school was an FG, had horrible English, but everyone learned the languages to be able to have a basic conversation or at least order food.

Will Nippon do this? No.

*Q: Why the fuck is IPU taking spanish arnt you mexican? A: Yes, I wanted a fuckin A but got a D because it was Spain Spanish and mexicans speak like pesants... errr

Dude, This Is Japan. There is no such thing as an easy and simple solution (especially one that would work)...And that applies doubly when it comes to learning how to Engrish.
P.S. Bummer on your D amigo.

[AML]

Done properly, this is surely a good idea.

You surely must be joking? I would have to disagree. The Japanese government does not need to be looking for ways to waste 100 times the money spent now on the JET program. It would never be done properly. What government program is done properly? Can you name two? It would become just another organization corrupted by old men.

There are enough resources right now for anyone to learn English. In fact, no one can really give a good reason why Japanese need to learn English more than now.

Japan could simply stop teaching katakana in schools tomorrow, replacing katakana with the original word. Since katakana is roughly 90% English in origin, the result would be skyrocketing English ability, considering the volume of katakana used in daily use and in business.

And the cost for that would be zero.

I'm sorry, but if there was a true need to learn English more or better, people would be doing it. Send 1,000 Japanese teachers overseas for a year? You have to be kidding. It sounds like something from The Onion.

Do you think Japanese teachers want to go overseas to improve their own English ability? They would be ostracized by the old fart teachers and administrators when they returned.

Sheesh, even now, young Japanese with near native ability who grew up outside Japan because their father worked overseas mask their English ability because they are ridiculed at work. They are pigeonholed into a low-level job and denied management paths because they are still considered "poisoned" from their experience overseas. And it's almost 2011, for heaven's sake.

I say again, you can't be serious?

Doesnt all this just prove that it IS necessary to send people overseas?

Not just to learn the language but the culture too! For gods sake, how can anyone learn a language without first learning about the culture.
Why people say what they say is just as important as how to say it.

They should have started this years ago.

If the older generation continue to ostracize the younger generation its because they fear the unknown and that's just their ignorance and stupidity.

You cant blame younger Japanese for that.

I work at a JR high and there is one teacher who speaks native level English, she lived overseas and could teach proper English but cant because she has to teach the fraked up Japanese-English curriculum.

If you want people to actually learn the language then first change the curriculum!! NO MORE HORIZON/CROWN !!!

[Mulboyne]

...To set up the new language program, the government needs to secure the financial resources, observers have said...

From here:

The government has earmarked 500 million yen in the fiscal 2011 budget to send 100 Japanese English language teachers aged 40 or younger to U.S. universities to learn English teaching methods for six months, according to the officials.