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Mulboyne wrote:Done properly, this is surely a good idea.
wuchan wrote:I could see this backfiring. J-teacher goes to the US and finds out how much their American counterparts make. Decide they need to unionize. Come back to japan and fail at forming a union or getting the wage that they think they deserve. Then take their new skills into business or some other field or leave japan.
2triky wrote:They will return to Japan riding black ships filled with a new sense of wonder and a cargo hold filled with nacho cheese and delicious foods from King Taco.
Yokohammer wrote:And this, I think, is the point.
Figuratively of course, but the point nonetheless.
Mulboyne wrote:Yomiuri: Japan teachers may get English training in U.S.
Level3 wrote:If it costs the same, then sending Japanese teachers to the USA to actually learn how to speak English would, in theory, be much better than funding the JET program.
Level3 wrote: Of course the J govt. would fuck it up. Without changing the insane cirriculum, it doesn't really matter how well the J teachers speak or not.
Level3 wrote:Will they house the teachers together so they can, like most J study-abroad types, just speak Japanese with fellow Japanese most of the time anyway?
Level3 wrote:And yes, how many will be amazed by the teachers' union, vacation time, and very nice salaries these days in the US education system?
Level3 wrote:But even if this program brought back only 250 English-fluent teachers a year, it's surely worth far more than funding 3-year paid vacations for white Anglophones in the name of "cultural exchange".
Level3 wrote:Oh, and so many pro-JETs say "It's not really about the English, it's for cultural Exchange, that's what the E stands for, so we/the program shouldn't be held accountable in any way regarding English education"
Remind me.
What does the "T" in JET stand for, anyway?
Yokohammer wrote:For the benefit of those laboring under the misconception that the JET program is primarily about teaching English: it isn't. It's more about cultural exchange, and in that capacity it has been very effective. Any improvement in English skills incurred is a bonus.
Level3 wrote:If it costs the same, then sending Japanese teachers to the USA to actually learn how to speak English would, in theory, be much better than funding the JET program.
Of course the J govt. would fuck it up. Without changing the insane cirriculum, it doesn't really matter how well the J teachers speak or not.
Will they house the teachers together so they can, like most J study-abroad types, just speak Japanese with fellow Japanese most of the time anyway?
If it's mostly women, how many will be lost to marriage?
How many J women will be lost when they experience a society in which they could have a future in the employment market beyond "office girl"?
Or not only actually be able to file a sexual harassment lawsuit, but likely even make a boatload of money out of it?
And yes, how many will be amazed by the teachers' union, vacation time, and very nice salaries these days in the US education system?
But even if this program brought back only 250 English-fluent teachers a year, it's surely worth far more than funding 3-year paid vacations for white Anglophones in the name of "cultural exchange".
Oh, and so many pro-JETs say "It's not really about the English, it's for cultural Exchange, that's what the E stands for, so we/the program shouldn't be held accountable in any way regarding English education"
Remind me.
What does the "T" in JET stand for, anyway?
Fullback wrote:You surely must be joking? I would have to disagree. The Japanese government does not need to be looking for ways to waste 100 times the money spent now on the JET program. It would never be done properly. What government program is done properly? Can you name two? It would become just another organization corrupted by old men.
Yokohammer wrote:For the benefit of those laboring under the misconception that the JET program is primarily about teaching English: it isn't. It's more about cultural exchange, and in that capacity it has been very effective. Any improvement in English skills incurred is a bonus.
Seen from that perspective, I agree that the new proposal could be a good idea.
Fullback wrote:Do the American ones teach American "culture," such as NASCAR? Do the Brits perform traditional British cultural things, such as vomiting and fighting after pub crawling all night?
Fullback wrote:Companies will invest in language training if there is a requirement or opportunity. There will always be people who are motivated to study languages. The true market need is always met, more or less.
Fullback wrote:Can you give me a few examples of the kinds of "cultural" things that JET youngsters do every week?
Mulboyne wrote:Well, taken further, you're arguing against any language teaching in schools. Or, indeed, the whole idea of schools if you think private companies should make all educational and training investments in their employees.
If, however, you do think language teaching is appropriate, then the next question is whether it is currently being provided effectively. If it isn't, then surely the government has a responsibility to raise standards. If one problem is the quality and ability of teachers - many think so - then planning ways to improve this seems a better option than leaving things as they stand.
IparryU wrote:Easy and simple solution that is used world wide:
1. dont hire a non-native to teach a foereign language
2. get some FG that can/can't speak the country's language (does it matter)
3. give the FG that is teaching the FG language the normal (== same as other teachers) package and responsibilities aka "faculty" status
4. never invest into some silly program to give Nipponjin their pride to teach a foreign langage in Japanese to Japanese ppl..... no no
My Spanish* and French teacher in middle school was an FG, had horrible English, but everyone learned the languages to be able to have a basic conversation or at least order food.
Will Nippon do this? No.
*Q: Why the fuck is IPU taking spanish arnt you mexican? A: Yes, I wanted a fuckin A but got a D because it was Spain Spanish and mexicans speak like pesants... errr
Fullback wrote:Done properly, this is surely a good idea.
You surely must be joking? I would have to disagree. The Japanese government does not need to be looking for ways to waste 100 times the money spent now on the JET program. It would never be done properly. What government program is done properly? Can you name two? It would become just another organization corrupted by old men.
There are enough resources right now for anyone to learn English. In fact, no one can really give a good reason why Japanese need to learn English more than now.
Japan could simply stop teaching katakana in schools tomorrow, replacing katakana with the original word. Since katakana is roughly 90% English in origin, the result would be skyrocketing English ability, considering the volume of katakana used in daily use and in business.
And the cost for that would be zero.
I'm sorry, but if there was a true need to learn English more or better, people would be doing it. Send 1,000 Japanese teachers overseas for a year? You have to be kidding. It sounds like something from The Onion.
Do you think Japanese teachers want to go overseas to improve their own English ability? They would be ostracized by the old fart teachers and administrators when they returned.
Sheesh, even now, young Japanese with near native ability who grew up outside Japan because their father worked overseas mask their English ability because they are ridiculed at work. They are pigeonholed into a low-level job and denied management paths because they are still considered "poisoned" from their experience overseas. And it's almost 2011, for heaven's sake.
I say again, you can't be serious?
...To set up the new language program, the government needs to secure the financial resources, observers have said...
The government has earmarked 500 million yen in the fiscal 2011 budget to send 100 Japanese English language teachers aged 40 or younger to U.S. universities to learn English teaching methods for six months, according to the officials.
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