Tohoku Earthquake, Tsunami and Nuclear Disaster!!!

[cstaylor]

NEWS ADVISORY: Radioactive iodine 7.5 mil. times legal limit found in seawater near No. 2 reactor

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/

[cstaylor]

2 held for selling unauthorized drug over radioactive contamination

One of the two is Fumitaka Umewaka, 50, a Kobe-based health food dealer, who is suspected of violating the pharmaceutical affairs law. Umewaka said on a promotional website that the drug absorbs radioactive substances and removes them from the human body, the police said.

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/04/83230.html

[matsuki]

Speaking of culling: How about the worthlessness of Japan's rape-the-ocean fisherman?
Now is the perfect time to cull their ranks and let Japan's fish stocks to finally recover from decades of overfishing.

/Has anybody tried to go fishing here?
//The only fish you can catch is the size of bait.

THIS

Mercury levels in the meat weren't enough, I wonder if the increased radiation will cull demand for seafood long enough to let the ocean recover some.

[FG Lurker]

Cull the herds in a 100km radius and then pay those welfare collecting tax-cheaters for their livestock only if they leave farming for good.

The farming subsidies here really need to be reworked.

Speaking of culling: How about the worthlessness of Japan's rape-the-ocean fisherman?
Now is the perfect time to cull their ranks and let Japan's fish stocks to finally recover from decades of overfishing.

I started a reply that stated much the same thing but ended up deleting it as I figured I'd end up getting accused of trying to minimize or trivialize the situation.

The fisherman's union (or whatever it is called) is unbelievably strong here, it's absolutely insane. Want to have a dock (with pilings)? Pay the fisherman's union. Kansai Airport? Still paying a huge amount every year for the right to use the water area it takes up.

The way crabbing and clamming are done here drive me absolutely apeshit. Either there are no size limits or they get blatantly ignored. Not surprising that there are nearly no crabs left when they take small crab, female crab, pregnant female crab -- anything they can get a hold of.

/Has anybody tried to go fishing here?
//The only fish you can catch is the size of bait.

Nah, you just need to go to the lakes or rivers where invasive foreign species have been purposely introduced and are now taking over the native ecosystems.

[Mulboyne]

Environmental activist George Monbiot has angered some of his erstwhile colleagues by questioning whether nuclear power really poses high risks. This is one response:

Why George Monbiot is wrong on nuclear power

Monbiot has now written this article about radiation risks:

George Monbiot: The unpalatable truth is that the anti-nuclear lobby has misled us all

Over the last fortnight I've made a deeply troubling discovery. The anti-nuclear movement to which I once belonged has misled the world about the impacts of radiation on human health. The claims we have made are ungrounded in science, unsupportable when challenged, and wildly wrong. We have done other people, and ourselves, a terrible disservice...more...

On another matter:

Fukushima Radiation: Modeling Shows Limited Spread in Ocean

[Kanchou]

If it wasn't for the thousands of inefficient small-scale rice farmers, Japan would probably have quite a bit more living space for people. Bigger houses, wider roads, and YARDS.

Fill in the tanpo and make parking lots, buy up large areas of land and farm them large-scale.

Oh, and more reasonably-priced rice that can compete with foreign imports would be great.

[cstaylor]

If it wasn't for the thousands of inefficient small-scale rice farmers, Japan would probably have quite a bit more living space for people. Bigger houses, wider roads, and YARDS.

Fill in the tanpo and make parking lots, buy up large areas of land and farm them large-scale.

Oh, and more reasonably-priced rice that can compete with foreign imports would be great.

Japan would need another stunning DPJ victory for that to happen. I think JA and whatever the fisherman's union is called are holding out for the Jimento to retake control of the central government.

[Greji]

I think JA and whatever the fisherman's union is called are holding out for the Jimento to retake control of the central government.

Kan is quickly establishing new records for unpopularity and nose-diving polls, while dragging the DPJ along with him. Your "retake control" by the "good ole boys" might not be as far away as you think!

[Mike Oxlong]

MOJ extends period of stay for foreigners in affected areas...

[Mike Oxlong]

Town near nuclear plant rejects Japanese utility's 'token' offer

Acknowledging the toll the unrelenting nuclear crisis has had on people's lives and livelihoods, the owner of the stricken nuclear plant has offered money to some of those in the radiation's reach -- an offer that one city decided to refuse.

An official with the Tokyo Electric Power Company, which operates the Fukushima Daiichi power plant, said Tuesday that the utility made a "token" offer to residents in 10 communities near the plant.

Starting March 31, money began going out to those in nine of them. But the town of Namie rejected Tokyo Electric's offer, with a local official calling it a too meager attempt to make up for a drastically reduced quality of life and income.

Tokyo Electric didn't detail how much money is being offered to each community. But Kousei Negishi, who is the manager of general affairs for Namie, said that it was 20 million yen ($238,000). That works out to about $12 for each of Namie's roughly 20,000 residents.

That amount of cash, said Negishi, is "not enough."...

[Yokohammer]

Town near nuclear plant rejects Japanese utility's 'token' offer

This is such a farce.
TEPCO trying to preempt further liability by offering 1,000 yen per person.

Beyond belief. I'm usually able to vent my feelings about such issues at length, but TEPCO's insensitivity leaves me speechless. Almost. Contemptuous bastards.

[Doctor Stop]

That works out to about $12 for each of Namie's roughly 20,000 residents.

$12, or 100 Umaibos.

[CrankyBastard]

I'm wondering how long it'll be before the whole world gets really pissed off at Japan for crapping in its own backyard and shoveling the shit into the ocean to share with everyone.

[omae mona]

I ain't gonna jump in to defend TEPCO here, but what exactly is the "inconvenience" that residents of Namie suffered? I got lots of inconvenience too here in Tokyo.. ..

[Typhoon]

Environmental activist George Monbiot has angered some of his erstwhile colleagues by questioning whether nuclear power really poses high risks. This is one response:

Why George Monbiot is wrong on nuclear power

Monbiot has now written this article about radiation risks:

George Monbiot: The unpalatable truth is that the anti-nuclear lobby has misled us all

On another matter:

Fukushima Radiation: Modeling Shows Limited Spread in Ocean

The Bhopal chemical disaster killed far more people than Chernobyl yet the anti nuke zealots continue to use plastics.

[Kanchou]

MOJ extends period of stay for foreigners in affected areas...

Didn't some Chinese guy get nabbed for trying to leave the country while overstaying?

[omae mona]

Environmental activist George Monbiot has angered some of his erstwhile colleagues by questioning whether nuclear power really poses high risks.

This resonates with me. Before Fukushima, I was not at all interested in the pro-nuclear versus anti-nuclear debate. I really held no opinion at all, as I've never had time to pay attention to it or educate myself on the details. In the back of my mind, I think I had a gut feeling that I would come down strongly on the anti-nuclear side of the fence if I actually read up on the issues. This seemed to be a case of environmentalists versus big evil industrialists, and I have a tendency side with environmentalists.

But as the events of Fukushima unfolded and I started reading commentary on the Internet, I was really taken aback. I am not sure if the message board rants of individuals or the op-ed pieces I've seen from advocates are representative of the overall anti-nuclear movement or not. But what I witnessed are a bunch of science-denying hysterics on the anti-nuclear side, versus people who seemed to grasp science, grasp logic, and have perspective about pros and cons on the pro-nuclear side. I'm finding it hard to side with the anti-nuclear faction when their starting point for debate is fiction rather than fact. There must be some valid arguments on their side, but I am not hearing them argued very well.

[legion]

Kan is quickly establishing new records for unpopularity and nose-diving polls, while dragging the DPJ along with him. Your "retake control" by the "good ole boys" might not be as far away as you think!

Could there be a connection? The tame media and the old guard.

I always feel sorry for the PMs of Japan, they get selected by a group of people who are just waiting for the chance to stab them in the back.

[Johnson]

I'm finding it hard to side with the anti-nuclear faction when their starting point for debate is fiction rather than fact. There must be some valid arguments on their side, but I am not hearing them argued very well.

Even if power plants would be 100% safe - we don't even have facilities to store the nuclear waste. We're producing shitloads of material that will be dangerous for thousands of years and the current procedure to deal with that stuff is to throw it in a deep hole. How's that for a valid argument.

[Kanchou]

For everyone who dies of cancer from Fukushima there will probably be 10,000 coal miners killed every year.

FWIW.

[omae mona]

Even if power plants would be 100% safe - we don't even have facilities to store the nuclear waste. We're producing shitloads of material that will be dangerous for thousands of years and the current procedure to deal with that stuff is to throw it in a deep hole. How's that for a valid argument.

Honestly, I don't know much about this yet and I am trying to be open minded. But the validity of your argument depends completely on the definitions of the words you're using. Here are my questions:

1. How much is "shitloads"?
2. Define "dangerous". What are the risks?
3. What is the problem with throwing it in a deep hole?

Your argument uses lots of words that create an emotional reaction and sound scary. But I can't evaluate it until you give me factual information. I am not even skeptical; I've seen mention of nuclear waste as a concern, and gee, it sounds to dumb old me like it could be a serious problem. But if it is, clearly there must be some scientific fact to back that up.

[damn name]

Monbiot has now written this article about radiation risks:

George Monbiot: The unpalatable truth is that the anti-nuclear lobby has misled us all

Controversy about radiation effects usually revolve around the dreaded linear no-threshold (LNT) model - the model that says if a lot of radiation is a lot bad, then a little radiation must be a little bad. It's implanted into the public psyche as something obvious and a scientific fact.

Critics of the model have some ammunition though. They are able to say that it's unproven theory. There is no data or evidence to support it. In fact, there is evidence to disprove it. A famous one is "Mortality of A-bomb Survivors in Nagasaki and Hiroshima" that showed persons with exposure to non-lethal levels of radiation exhibited lower mortality from non-cancerous disease than persons with no exposure.

Some exposure created a very small increase in cancer rates (on the scale that if the probability of you getting cancer in your lifetime was 20%, it increased to about 20.1%), but non-cancerous diseases (heart, circulatory, respiratory, etc.) declined so much that the net effect was that people with some exposure have lived longer than people with no exposure. http://probeinternational.org/library/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/MineIR10-JpSurvMort1.pdf

[Mulboyne]

This resonates with me.

Monbiot features in this TV clip along with Caldicott. It's what inspired him to look closer into her allegations. In a tweet, he calls it a "mind-blowing TV discussion with Helen Caldicott about radiation. Her claims became ever wilder and less credible".

[Thug4Life]

:/

[Mulboyne]

The national government and local authorities have a number of accounts on Twitter. Digital Garage has come up with a menu to help find them:

http://twinavi.jp/gov

[Thug4Life]

Plant radiation monitor says levels immeasurable

A radiation monitor at the troubled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant says workers there are exposed to immeasurable levels of radiation.

The monitor told NHK that no one can enter the plant's No. 1 through 3 reactor buildings because radiation levels are so high that monitoring devices have been rendered useless. He said even levels outside the buildings exceed 100 millisieverts in some places.

Pools and streams of water contaminated by high-level radiation are being found throughout the facility.

The monitor said he takes measurements as soon as he finds water, because he can't determine whether it's contaminated just by looking at it. He said he's very worried about the safety of workers there.

Contaminated water and efforts to remove it have been hampering much-needed work to cool the reactors.

The monitor expressed frustration, likening the situation to looking up a mountain that one has to climb, without having taken a step up.

Tuesday, April 05, 2011

:/

[AML]

While I was in the line to get my re-entry visa, I saw a few Chinese owning up to being illegal. One guy didn't even have a valid passport and he was trying to get re-entry....

[Yokohammer]

I ain't gonna jump in to defend TEPCO here, but what exactly is the "inconvenience" that residents of Namie suffered? I got lots of inconvenience too here in Tokyo.. ..

Radiation levels exceeding the "stay indoors" level. Higher than Iidate-mura, even. Contaminated soil that will make the town's produce unsellable (whether the danger is real or imagined by the consumer doesn't really matter). Basically the same as everyone else in the contaminated areas.

But most of all: it ain't over yet.

All this "there's no scientifically proven danger" talk is fine, but the fact is the poor people are terrified. They are terrified on a daily basis, with no end in sight. They aren't scientists, they're basic townsfolk fearing for their lives and futures, and those of their children. Their viewpoint is valid too: if there's a need to evacuate or stay indoors, there must be a danger. And that's just the psychological impact. The economic impact is very real too. Tepco's response is just unacceptable. "Here's 1,000 yen to allay your mortal fear, now go away and leave us alone." I don't think so.

EDIT: In this morning's news, apparently the government has ordered TEPCO to pay each evacuee household an initial sum of around 1,000,000 yen to tide them over until full compensation can be decided upon.

[Tsuru]

I'm wondering how long it'll be before the whole world gets really pissed off at Japan for crapping in its own backyard and shoveling the shit into the ocean to share with everyone.

SK is starting to lose its patience, not surprisingly as this is probably only the start of TEPCO's excorcism of the plant's contaminated water.

It is surprising how much of the radioactivity apparently has been "caught" in the water and merely has to be drained/cleaned off (according to everyone's favourite power company) to allow work to continue.

[omae mona]

Radiation levels exceeding the "stay indoors" level. Higher than Iidate-mura, even.

Oh dear. Well that is a rather key fact that was omitted from the news article. Where did you get that info, by the way?

Contaminated soil that will make the town's produce unsellable (whether the danger is real or imagined by the consumer doesn't really matter). Basically the same as everyone else in the contaminated areas.

We already know that TEPCO and/or the government is going to have to pay sellers for produce that was actually banned for sale. That's clearly separate from this "meiwaku" compensation from TEPCO, will be much larger than 1000 yen, and only applies to farmers.

Is TEPCO going to be on the hook for indirect damages, like losses caused by consumer choices based on a perception of danger that the government does not deem legitimate? If people stop buying milk that has absolutely nothing wrong with it, is TEPCO going to have to compensate the sellers?

Are they on the hook for psychological damage? If so, is the damage measured by how upset people are (e.g. does somebody freaking out in Tokyo get more money than a professor 35km from Fukushima who realizes there is no immediate danger?) Or is the damage measured by how far they are from Fukushima (e.g. the professor gets a lot of money for going about his daily life, while the person who had to check into a mental hospital in Tokyo gets nothing?)

This is going to be a very hot topic, I think.

All this "there's no scientifically proven danger" talk is fine, but the fact is the poor people are terrified. They are terrified on a daily basis, with no end in sight. They aren't scientists, they're basic townsfolk fearing for their lives and futures, and those of their children. Their viewpoint is valid too: if there's a need to evacuate or stay indoors, there must be a danger. And that's just the psychological impact. The economic impact is very real too. Tepco's response is just unacceptable. "Here's 1,000 yen to allay your mortal fear, now go away and leave us alone." I don't think so.

EDIT: In this morning's news, apparently the government has ordered TEPCO to pay each evacuee household an initial sum of around 1,000,000 yen to tide them over until full compensation can be decided upon.

Holy cow, if there's a need to evacuate or stay indoors there is indeed a very economic impact. Being removed from your home or prevented from going about your daily life is COMPLETELY different than being nervous because of what you read on 2ch, misunderstood on the news, mistrusted the government recommendations, or even had a legitimate, scientifically grounded fear. 1,000,000 yen for evacuees sounds like a reasonable start for compensation..


But going back to the news article I was referring to, did you hear this town (Namie) needed to be evacuated or people were ordered to stay indoors? The article says it is outside of the 20km evacuation zone and outside of the 30km "stay indoors" zone. So I am trying to understand their claim for more than 1000 yen.