Been discriminated against because you're an FG?

[Mini_B]

Have you been discriminated against because you're an FG? Have you been rejected from renting an apartment and told 'flat out' that because you're a gaijin you can't rent? Ever been asked to leave somewhere because your 'kind' wasn't permitted? Have you had to sit in the back of the bus because you're not Japanese? Now is your chance to tell your story on television. Post your story along with contact info. We'll be conducting interviews during the next month.

[American Oyaji]

I was asked to leave a pawn shop in my neighborhood because I wasnt Japanese.

But this occured the day before I left, so it wasn't a big deal to me.

[Big Booger]

I was in Osaka at the time with 3 other Japanese colleagues. It was at a restaurant in Namba near one of the McD's chains... can't remember which one exactly. The restaurant was a little udon shop on some back alley.

I was sitting with the three Japanese and well all ordered food and beer. All three of the Japanese received their order, and yet I didn't. We waited over 35 minutes, in a restaurant that wasn't busy.

Finally one of the members of my group asked the waitress where my meal was. And she said she thought we only ordered 3 meals... My friend said there are 4 of us, why would we only order 3 meals. So she said she'd bring out another meal. But we still had to wait 25 more minutes (when the first three meals came in less than 10).

So right before the waitress is about to bring the meal, I tell my three friends that we are leaving. So we get up, they go pay their bill, right as the waitress is readying mine.

The restaurant staff started to make a fuss over it, saying I ordered the meal and that I should have to pay for it. But one of the members of our group happened to be a Union representative, and an aggressive one by Japanese standards so he kind of got angry at the waitress... and we all walked out.

I then went to McD's on that day. That was about 3 years ago... haven't experienced anything remotely similar.

[FG Lurker]

I've had a couple of shitty experiences, but certainly nothing worth putting on TV. Since becoming able to communicate in Japanese I have had zero problems. I've had many, many excellent experiences, but I guess that's not newsworthy...

[AssKissinger]

I've had many, many excellent experiences, but I guess that's not newsworthy...

I got my dick sucked just for being a honkey! Film at 11.

[randomjin]

I don't speak much japanese and have been in Japan for a few years. Never felt discriminated against.

[FG Lurker]

I've had many, many excellent experiences, but I guess that's not newsworthy...

I got my dick sucked just for being a honkey! Film at 11.

Most gaijin guys have had that experience though, usually multiple times.

I was meaning more like the time I had a taxi driver track me down to give me back my wallet that I left in his cab. Complete with my 70,000yen rent money. Or (on a smaller scale) the convenience store owner near my office who gives me free international calling cards that she gets from KDDI. Or the little old lady down the street from my old apartment who used to give me presents every time she saw me walking by -- still does if I happen to be in the area. Or the kanrinin-san near for my place in Okayama who consistently loads me up with fresh vegetables/fruit/fish/etc every time I am down there. (He's offered me free use of his boat too, but I refuse to accept.) I could go on...and on and on.

The couple of negative discriminatory experiences I have had in Japan (both around 10 years ago) are really nothing in comparison.

[cstaylor]

Since becoming able to communicate in Japanese I have had zero problems.

Yeah, that does help a lot.

[gomichild]

As FG Lurker commented - the discrimination can go both ways.

On the negative side the worst I've had to deal with is bloody real estate agents.

[kurohinge1]

... the worst I've had to deal with is bloody real estate agents.

Mind you, they weren't bloody before GC pounded their faces with her bass guitar.

They were probably just insolent, before that.

[kamome]

I bet that housing discrimination is more of a problem with non-white FGs than it is for white FG's. For white, Western FG's, I think the biggest problem is not in finding housing, but rather whether affordable housing in certain neighborhoods will be made available to them. For non-white, non-Western FG's, I wonder if there are additional difficulties. Maybe talking to people of African or Southeast Asian nationalities would yield more stories for TV.

[Charles]

I bet that housing discrimination is more of a problem with non-white FGs than it is for white FG's. For white, Western FG's, I think the biggest problem is not in finding housing, but rather whether affordable housing in certain neighborhoods will be made available to them. For non-white, non-Western FG's, I wonder if there are additional difficulties. Maybe talking to people of African or Southeast Asian nationalities would yield more stories for TV.

You remind me of an essay I read by Murakami Haruki. He described how when he was younger and ran a jazz club, he had trouble renting an apartment in Tokyo because of general discrimination against people in the entertainment industry. He then made an astonishing leap of logic. It was generally accepted that landlords discriminated against people who weren't the type of tenant they wanted (i.e. music club operators) so there wasn't really much difference between discriminating against someone because they didn't have a mainstream job, and discriminating against someone because of race.

When I read Murakami justifying racial discrimination on the basis of his own petty "discrimination," I knew he had lost his mind. And recently his essays bear this out, he's become an old crank, constantly complaining about "non-Japanese" social trends and how they are a threat to the whole of Japanese society.

[Mini_B]

Maybe talking to people of African or Southeast Asian nationalities would yield more stories for TV.

The last time I checked...a FG was not only the round eye white man from the West. FG's are non-Japanese outsiders.

I'm glad that the positives of being a FG were also brought up. I think the stories are very interesting and would make for a balanced program as opposed to a one-sided string of complaints from the FG.

It seems the majority of the problem is encountered when the FG heads to the fudousan. Why is this industry allowed to so boldly discriminate? That itself is a story!

[canman]

Here in town there is a bar that features dancers from Indonesia and the Philipines. I wasn't that interested in going to the place, but my student who was a regular, hence he wanted to study English to talk up the girls, or impress them, really wanted to take me. So we headed off, got to the door, and the doorman took a look at me and said "no gaijin", at which point I pointed to the picture of all the foreign girls and asked him "what about them", to which he replied that they were working. Luckily or unluckily depending on your point of view, my student was such a good customer, he was friends with the owner who happened to be there that night and he let me in, as a favor to my student. I later found out from one Malaysian girl that they really wanted to keep the Misawa military guys out, that was why they had the ban. It ended up being an interesting evening, the couple of girls I talked to were happy just to sit and speak English to somebody without being gropped. Of course I did have to "cheek dance" a couple of times to make it look like the girls were really working.

[hakuman]

I bet that housing discrimination is more of a problem with non-white FGs than it is for white FG's. For white, Western FG's, I think the biggest problem is not in finding housing, but rather whether affordable housing in certain neighborhoods will be made available to them. For non-white, non-Western FG's, I wonder if there are additional difficulties. Maybe talking to people of African or Southeast Asian nationalities would yield more stories for TV.

I used to have to find apartments for the employees in my previous company. Discrimination runs rampant, regardless of color. In the real-estate industry, a gaijin is a gaijin, regardless of color.
That being said, its not the realtors that are discriminating, its the landlords. The landlords tell the realtors "no gaijin".

[homesweethome]

I feel it is a lot more complex than just this good thing happened to me or this bad thing happened. Hopefully in total, more good happens than bad to most people over their time and lives in Japan. If this were not true, most of the time, I guess everyone would leave if they could. Unfortunately racism is not something you can easily put in a box and point to and say: "Here it is! Here is the proof!" Debito says this same thing. Sometimes when you go to a place that is famous for discrimination with your tape recorder and camera, all of a sudden they welcome you with open arms. Not always the same and certainly not the same for each person who experiences it. This racism/real estate angle is especially true and has a little different twist to it if you live in the inaka in my experience.

Living in the city for several years everything in one form or another happened both good and bad. I was kicked out of numerous real estate agents offices because of my being a gaijin and also shown great kindness by one agent who happened to be married to a Philippine person. After city life got to us, we decided to move to the countryside where hopefully things would be simpler and healthier. We found that in most cases, not only are country people not willing to rent to outsiders (Japanese and foreign alike) but will not even sell a place that is for sale willingly to anyone from anyplace else either, unless you are willing and can pay so much money they can't refuse. I wasn't able or willing to do that so found another way to purchase property. That was when the real fun started.

After making a bid to purchase our own place, and being successful, we began to get threatening phone calls. The caller would say things like "If you buy that place I am going to kill you!" or "You XXX Gaijin! Get out of Japan!" or "I am going to kill your half-breed kid!" We took it to the police, but they refused to do anything unless a real crime took place. Then someone set some small fires around our house. I was not at home at the time, but the fire Dept. called the police and told them they thought it was arson. The police came, took a bunch of pictures, decided some kid had done it as a prank and left. Fortunately because of a recent rain the fire did not spread, again the police didn't want to hear anything about the threatening phone calls I had gotten. Then shortly after this, someone shot out the windows in the front of our house with some kind of pellet gun. Again the police came took pictures and did nothing more.

It was obvious to me someone didn't want me to be there and certainly didn't want me buying property in the area for some reason. Granted this could have happened to a Japanese, but the fact that I am not, seemed to be more of a reason to try to prevent us from becoming property owners in the area. The anti-foreign sentiment seemed to be a catalyst to the racism. The real reason why we were so unwelcome still is a mystery to us, if there was one. Maybe it was the way we purchased the property, not in a way most Japanese would do it and certainly not a way anyone living in the countryside would go about it. Maybe we upset someones plans.

Anyway we did end up buying the property (among others) and have settled more or less. What really hit home for me on this racism, real estate, thing happened a few years ago when I was walking home along a short-cut on a path between some fields. Coming the opposite direction was an older woman I didn't know but who obviously knew me. She stopped in the middle of the path and said "Mr. Gaijin, What exactly did you come here to do?" Her glare and tone caught me completely off guard and I didn't even have the composure to respond. Later I realized it was one of those "unami moments" when racism raised its head to bite me and then slither back into its hole.

Wish I had been carrying a video camera at the time.

[kamome]

You remind me of an essay I read by Murakami Haruki. He described how when he was younger and ran a jazz club, he had trouble renting an apartment in Tokyo because of general discrimination against people in the entertainment industry. He then made an astonishing leap of logic. It was generally accepted that landlords discriminated against people who weren't the type of tenant they wanted (i.e. music club operators) so there wasn't really much difference between discriminating against someone because they didn't have a mainstream job, and discriminating against someone because of race.

When I read Murakami justifying racial discrimination on the basis of his own petty "discrimination," I knew he had lost his mind. And recently his essays bear this out, he's become an old crank, constantly complaining about "non-Japanese" social trends and how they are a threat to the whole of Japanese society.

So...what are you getting at? I only pointed out that non-white FG's tend to get worse treatment than white FG's, and that such disparity probably extends to real estate. Where's the leap of logic in that?

[Charles]

You remind me of an essay I read by Murakami Haruki. He described how when he was younger and ran a jazz club, he had trouble renting an apartment in Tokyo because of general discrimination against people in the entertainment industry. He then made an astonishing leap of logic. It was generally accepted that landlords discriminated against people who weren't the type of tenant they wanted (i.e. music club operators) so there wasn't really much difference between discriminating against someone because they didn't have a mainstream job, and discriminating against someone because of race.

When I read Murakami justifying racial discrimination on the basis of his own petty "discrimination," I knew he had lost his mind. And recently his essays bear this out, he's become an old crank, constantly complaining about "non-Japanese" social trends and how they are a threat to the whole of Japanese society.

So...what are you getting at? I only pointed out that non-white FG's tend to get worse treatment than white FG's, and that such disparity probably extends to real estate. Where's the leap of logic in that?

Sorry if I didn't make that clear enough. Murakami was saying that discrimination against someone on account of their job justified discriminating against someone on account of their race. Because the "normal" discrimination was accepted, all discrimination including racial discrimination should be accepted. I thought that was a pretty pathetic argument.

[AssKissinger]

Interesting story Homes. Thanks for taking the time to type all that up. If it makes you feel any better I'm sure whoever vandalized your property has a very little dick.

We found that in most cases, not only are country people not willing to rent to outsiders (Japanese and foreign alike) but will not even sell a place that is for sale willingly to anyone from anyplace else either, unless you are willing and can pay so much money they can't refuse

From what I've seen Japanese are very territorial and tend to treat other JPN from distant prefectures worse than they treat the average whitey. They're so into their local dialects and what their communities are 'famous' for that it really scares them shitless if someone is from somewhere 'famous' for potatoes instead of onions or uses different contractions.

[cstaylor]

Rob, I disagree. I think we'd see a replay of the 1923 quake aftermath. Plus, everyone would not be equal, because I guarantee that foreigners would not be allowed to own firearms.

[cstaylor]

Yeah, you may be right CS-san. It could all just suddenly "backfire" right in everyone's faces! "OH SHIT! WE REALLY, REALLY FUCKED IT ALL UP NOW!!!"

Imagine a Japanese version of Bernie Goetz gunning down some drunk foreigners on the last train home when they ask for directions in English.

[IkemenTommy]

Discrimination in Japan... no!!!!?
I must be missing something here.

No, but seriously, I have heard that you can be discriminated from Docomo from owning their phones if you don't have a J citizenship because they've had way too many problems with people bailing out without paying the bills. That's why gaijins prefer to get the more gaijin friendly vodaphones and AU.

[dimwit]

Yes there is discrimination in Japan (yawn) and we all get discriminated against. I just think it is a bit of a time waster to worry about it. I honestly can't remember the last time someone's racism pissed me off on a personal level. Most of the people I've met here who are virulently racist here are half-wits and are that desperate that you need the respect construction flagmen can give you?

Yes rental agencies can discriminate, but let's face it how often do Japanese trash their apartments? I've known way too many Eikaiwa teachers who have. I'd discriminate too.

Also remember getting laid about three times as often as you would back home because your ugly as sin is also a form of discrimination too.

[FG Lurker]

Of course, there would be a whole wide array of social problems that would also come with the legalization of guns in Japan. And probably there would be daily news stories of yet another Salaryman Suzuki going postal on his boss and coworkers and then of course, himself at the end. Banks would be held up all the time, sirens would be wailing night and day everywhere you went, ambulances screaming in the middle of the nights, print ads on trains would feature really sexy and gorgeous models dressed as cowgirls with the latest Glock fashion-design nine millimeter for the all the ladies out there. You know, it would go on and on and on.

Hmm...sounds a lot like the US today.

[AssKissinger]

[FG Lurker]

Yeah, you may be right CS-san. It could all just suddenly "backfire" right in everyone's faces! "OH SHIT! WE REALLY, REALLY FUCKED IT ALL UP NOW!!!"

Imagine a Japanese version of Bernie Goetz gunning down some drunk foreigners on the last train home when they ask for directions in English.

Bernhard Goetz was totally right to shoot those fucking scumbags.

Yeah, but he was a shitty aim. Shoulda done a better job of it.

[fatslug]

My Japanese mate who was born and raised in Japan with a korean father and J-mother still has to carry around a GAIJIN card ????
is that discrimination or what......

[cstaylor]

Bernhard Goetz was totally right to shoot those fucking scumbags.

I'm sure Taro Suzuki would be found just as innocent by the courts as well.

[FG Lurker]

Bernhard Goetz was totally right to shoot those fucking scumbags.

I'm sure Taro Suzuki would be found just as innocent by the courts as well.

If 4 gaijin kids tried to attack Taro Suzuki with sharpened screwdrivers and he shot them...I'd have no problem with that.

The Wikipedia article on Bernhard Goetz is interesting -- I'd forgotten about what happened actually.

[cstaylor]

"Your honor, they were carrying sharp gaijin cards in their pockets, and one of them approached me and asked me something in English. In a state of panic, I pulled out my gun and blasted the four of them"