S.Korean, Japan Coast Guard Are Locked in Standoff Over Boat

[HaiHaiHai]

[FG Lurker]

Why do you think it is called the Sea of Japan by every country in the world except for Korea?? Because it is the body of water that separates JAPAN from mainland Asia.

If Botswana was located where Japan is it would be the Sea of Botswana. How difficult is this for you to comprehend?

I agree as usual your superior reasoning wins out.

I don't see you producing anything of substance to counter what I have written.

How about russia?

What about Russia? You mean the islands?

Personally I think Russia should give all 4 back, but I don't think they will. They're willing to give the two small ones back, but not the two larger and more desirable ones. If Japan had seized them from Russia in the closing days of the war you can bet that Russia wouldn't stand to only get some of them back.

[altar]

If the islands that make up Japan physically ceased to exist (or never existed in the first place) then there would be no sea to name, it would be part of the open Pacific Ocean. Do you see my point or are you in need of further geography lessons?

What kind of bullshit is that. Aren't you ashamed of writing such stupid stuff? Ok... er...er... what if Korea and China didn't exist? Japan would just be in the middle of the ocean so there wouldn't be a Sea of Japan. Huh!
This whole Sea of Japan/Sea of Korea business is a just great way to let idiots expose themselves and that's what you spend your time doing. Who seriously gives a fuck?

Ah yes, a completely unbiased opinion from everyone's favorite poster from Seoul. Rolling Eyes What are you doing on a Japan-oriented forum anyway? And you accuse me of coming here to vent frustration?

I lived in Japan long before I first came to Korea and I actually much prefer Japan so what you're suggesting is just more bullshit.
Cops, customs officers, coast guards should not beat people up, full stop. You're just too much of a cretin to understand that.
You should shove your so-called lessons in geography, geopolitics and international legal matters up your ass and give us a break.

[dingosatemybaby]

Welcome to the group, HaiHaiHai, and kudos for a great post! It's certainly a few cuts above the usual atavistic chrysanthemum-kissing one reads in most Japan-related groups.

[FG Lurker]

But what really irked me was this.

[article cut]

So... The Korean "authorities" are willing to help with a lawsuit even though their own data shows the boat entered Japan's EEZ and then fled -- with two Japanese Coast Guard officers on board!

Also, someone needs to give the Koreans a geography lesson... The Sea of Japan wouldn't exist if Japan disappeared...That's why it's called the Sea of Japan.

Korean nationalistic tendencies make the Japanese right-wingers look very mundane indeed.

This is just stupid.

First off, the possible lawsuit has nothing to do with establishing whether or not the boat entered Japanse waters. That much has been established. Given in all this is the understanding that sea borders aren't as well defined as land borders]
I am well aware what the (possible) lawsuit is about, and if you read one or two posts down from the one you quoted you will see that.

Fishing boats drift, yes... But several kilometers? With modern GPS navigation systems that all off-shore boats have there is no way you can tell me they didn't know where they were. If they didn't it is negligence on the part of the captain.

Second, the Sea of Japan ISN'T called the Sea of Japan because Japan is in proximity. A name is just a name. If you're expecting the body of water known as the Sea of Japan to disappear should Japan disappear, as you seem to insinuate, why that's just absurd. It'll still be there, just under another name. And yes, maybe it would just be an extension of the Pacific Ocean.

Obviously the water itself would still be there, but if Japan was not located where it is, that water would be part of the Pacific Ocean and there would be no argument over what to call it. Japan's location on the globe is what separates the Sea of Japan from the Pacific.

Please take a logics course of some sort.

Being told to take a logics course by someone who has dedicated years of his life to studying government... Now that is funny!

While your there, before you go around telling people to get a geography lesson or what not, please give yourself a history lesson too. Prior to the late 19th century, the body of water we know now as the Sea of Japan, was known as the East Sea( and still is in some maps).

This is not correct, and I think you know that. Before the 18th century no one name was consistently used. East Sea, Oriental Sea, Sea of Japan, and even Sea of Korea were all used. In the 19th century Japan became more important internationally than other countries in the region and the Sea of Japan became consistently known as the Sea of Japan. Korea wants to change that now, but beyond Korean nationalism and a strong dislike of Japan there is no reason to change the name.

[altar]

Ah, finally, someone on this board (HaiHaiHai) is also growing tired of Lurker's neverending stupid and childish comments.
Thanks for giving us a larger view on the issue Hai, but beware, Lurker is going to try and give you lessons in all fields of international affairs.

If the islands that make up Japan physically ceased to exist (or never existed in the first place) then there would be no sea to name, it would be part of the open Pacific Ocean. Do you see my point or are you in need of further geography lessons?

Your point is as full of shit as you are. All this is simply a question of people (like you) trying to impose their point of view on others. The English call the Channel the "English Channel", the rest of the world calls it simply the Channel. The only difference is that England was never in a position to impose anything to it's neighbors whereas Japan was the major colonial power in the region and that when it was decided that sea would be called "of Japan" the others were to small to say fuck you!
So please spare us your embarassing explanations, it's all bullshit.

Off-topic, but to make things clear.
The people in Japan fly high over the Chinese or the Koreans. They're more sophisticated, educated and peaceful. It just pisses me off to see that right wing wackos have managed to take over the country due to the people's lack of interest in politics. It's indeed Japan that looks petty because you would expect better from them. However they've gone back 20 years diplomatically and their overall strategy is failing miserably as they will remain political dwarves. Concerning the UNSC issue, in my opinion they'll never make it there with veto power because even the US doesn't want them.

[FG Lurker]

If the islands that make up Japan physically ceased to exist (or never existed in the first place) then there would be no sea to name, it would be part of the open Pacific Ocean. Do you see my point or are you in need of further geography lessons?

What kind of bullshit is that. Aren't you ashamed of writing such stupid stuff? Ok... er...er... what if Korea and China didn't exist? Japan would just be in the middle of the ocean so there wouldn't be a Sea of Japan. Huh!

Sigh... Okay, I'll write it out in a bit more detail for you:

I am guessing that Korea thinks "East Sea" should be used because the sea is both east of Korea and on the eastern side of Asia. I would further guess that Korea doesn't like the name "Sea of Japan" due to strong nationalism and an overall dislike of Japan. While both of these are just guesses, I don't think they are too far off base.

However East Sea makes no sense from a Japanese standpoint. The sea is located to the west of Japan, and the presence of the archipelago of Japan is the reason the sea exists. Of course Japanese nationalists will never accept what Korea suggests because of their own over inflated Japanese nationalism.

So, neither side is going to be happy with what the other side wants. The only solution that would have any chance of working with both sides would be a completely new name. Maybe North-East Asian Sea? Too long really. In any case that would take years to take hold and Japan will probably keep saying Sea of Japan and Korea would keep saying East Sea. Both countries are run by fucktards.

This whole Sea of Japan/Sea of Korea business is a just great way to let idiots expose themselves and that's what you spend your time doing. Who seriously gives a fuck?

You know, I actually agree with this. The name is fine as it is. No one even thought about it until a bunch of Koreans with far too much free time started a massive letter-writing campaign.

Ah yes, a completely unbiased opinion from everyone's favorite poster from Seoul. Rolling Eyes What are you doing on a Japan-oriented forum anyway? And you accuse me of coming here to vent frustration?

I lived in Japan long before I first came to Korea and I actually much prefer Japan so what you're suggesting is just more bullshit.

Yeah, you wrote the same thing before. If you like Japan so much more why are you still living in Korea?

Cops, customs officers, coast guards should not beat people up, full stop. You're just too much of a cretin to understand that.

In general I would agree that brutality is wrong. However if someone runs, resists arrest, and/or attacks an officer then it is reasonable for the officer to use appropriate force.

Japan and Korea are not at war, and if the fishing boat had done nothing wrong then they had nothing to fear.

You should shove your so-called lessons in geography, geopolitics and international legal matters up your ass and give us a break.

Ah yes, it is me who is the cretin here.

[nullpointer]

Concerning the UNSC issue, in my opinion they'll never make it there with veto power because even the US doesn't want them

Can you back that up with a credible source or is it just your personal opinion? I ask because I have been reading a lot about the UNSC expansion but never came across anything to suggest that US does not want japan in the UNSC.

[FG Lurker]

If the islands that make up Japan physically ceased to exist (or never existed in the first place) then there would be no sea to name, it would be part of the open Pacific Ocean. Do you see my point or are you in need of further geography lessons?

Your point is as full of shit as you are. All this is simply a question of people (like you) trying to impose their point of view on others.

Why are you replying to the same post twice??

As for people imposing their views on others... As I wrote above, this whole pile of steaming dog shit started because a bunch of people in Korea with too much free time started writing letters. So, who is trying to impose views on who?

The English call the Channel the "English Channel", the rest of the world calls it simply the Channel. The only difference is that England was never in a position to impose anything to it's neighbors whereas Japan was the major colonial power in the region and that when it was decided that sea would be called "of Japan" the others were to small to say fuck you!

What's your point? The American's call the Gulf of Mexico the Gulf of Mexico... They haven't tried to rename it the Gulf of Florida or some stupid shit like that.

So please spare us your embarassing explanations, it's all bullshit.

And your wild rants are not bullshit?

Off-topic, but to make things clear.
The people in Japan fly high over the Chinese or the Koreans. They're more sophisticated, educated and peaceful. It just pisses me off to see that right wing wackos have managed to take over the country due to the people's lack of interest in politics. It's indeed Japan that looks petty because you would expect better from them. However they've gone back 20 years diplomatically and their overall strategy is failing miserably as they will remain political dwarves.

Well, this is something we can agree on.

Concerning the UNSC issue, in my opinion they'll never make it there with veto power because even the US doesn't want them.

I don't know about "never", but certainly doesn't look like it'll happen anytime too soon.

[altar]

Can you back that up with a credible source or is it just your personal opinion? I ask because I have been reading a lot about the UNSC expansion but never came across anything to suggest that US does not want japan in the UNSC.

That's absolutely my own personal opinion. I just found it amusing that the US supported Japan's bid when it became clear that China would not accept it, whereas beforehand the US stated they were not against it in principle as long as the SC doesn't lose in efficiency. That to me sound like "there are already too many members on this council". It seems to me that the US are worried that if Japan were to become a full member it might take a more independent stance rather than just side with the US. But that is just my opinion.

[dingosatemybaby]

Ah, finally, someone on this board (HaiHaiHai) is also growing tired of Lurker's neverending stupid and childish comments.
Thanks for giving us a larger view on the issue Hai, but beware, Lurker is going to try and give you lessons in all fields of international affairs.

If the islands that make up Japan physically ceased to exist (or never existed in the first place) then there would be no sea to name, it would be part of the open Pacific Ocean. Do you see my point or are you in need of further geography lessons?

Your point is as full of shit as you are. All this is simply a question of people (like you) trying to impose their point of view on others. The English call the Channel the "English Channel", the rest of the world calls it simply the Channel. The only difference is that England was never in a position to impose anything to it's neighbors whereas Japan was the major colonial power in the region and that when it was decided that sea would be called "of Japan" the others were to small to say fuck you!
So please spare us your embarassing explanations, it's all bullshit.

Off-topic, but to make things clear.
The people in Japan fly high over the Chinese or the Koreans. They're more sophisticated, educated and peaceful. It just pisses me off to see that right wing wackos have managed to take over the country due to the people's lack of interest in politics. It's indeed Japan that looks petty because you would expect better from them. However they've gone back 20 years diplomatically and their overall strategy is failing miserably as they will remain political dwarves. Concerning the UNSC issue, in my opinion they'll never make it there with veto power because even the US doesn't want them.

Political dwarves indeed. I love how the Japanese media always sanctimoniously points out how Japan is a democracy, in contradistinction to the big, bad commies who rule China. Well, dingo doesn't see the big difference between the two. The CCP has ruled China since 1949; the LDP has ruled Japan since 1955. Both appear to be one-party states. Of course the Japanese stage ritual election, with sound trucks and white-glove wearing candidates, but the result is inevitably a continuation of the LDP's one-party rule. People say this is changing, but I'll believe it when I see it.

What a disgrace. The Japanese were given democracy on a silver platter by the US after the war, and completely squandered it. The South Koreans, for all their faults, really struggled to get the genuine multi-party democracy they have today.

[FG Lurker]

What a disgrace. The Japanese were given democracy on a silver platter by the US after the war, and completely squandered it. The South Koreans, for all their faults, really struggled to get the genuine multi-party democracy they have today.

Maybe democracy has to be fought for to be appreciated. Iraq to become the next Japan?

[NeoNecroNomiCron]

What a disgrace. The Japanese were given democracy on a silver platter by the US after the war, and completely squandered it. The South Koreans, for all their faults, really struggled to get the genuine multi-party democracy they have today.

Maybe democracy has to be fought for to be appreciated. Iraq to become the next Japan?

More like vietnam.

[Buraku]

If you run from the police remember, you may get a Rodney King beating when they eventually catch you..

In Japan it is not an offence to run from the police and you are not going to get shot for doing so.

I would still say the Japanese are more rightwing and imperial in their attitude, because the SKoreans have yet to attack anyone. The Japanese have physically attacked Thai fishing boats, attacked the South Koreans, the Jpn ships opened fire on Vietnamese, fired gas grenades at refugees/asylum seekers, attacked a NK ship, fired at Phillipinos and claim Chinese territory, want the Russian islands, and claim parts of disputed Korean territory which Ishihara says they should defend by attacking anyone who approaches...

The Reason Japanese don't try this bullshit with Russia is because the Ruskies would respond by making a new flaming crater in Japan

If Korean nationalism continues, they may respond the same



In this incident however I suspect the South Koreans are at fault with their heads up their ass, but that doesn't excuse Japan's highly agressive nature...is it any wonder there is so much hate in Asia

Russia has said it once considered to giving up two of the islands seized during World War II, but Japan wants all of them returned, so thnanks to stubborn Nippon stupidity the Japanese now get nothing....talk about biting the hand that feeds you. Ministery of Education decisions to publish rightwinger Nazi-textbooks have usually met with an outcry from neighbours China and South Korea, who regularly accuse the ministry of giving the nod to history textbooks that whitewash Japan's dubious Imperial World War II legacy. Liberal Democratic Party is considering introducing a new law to ensure the safety of Japanese vessels if they begin gas exploration in the East China Sea, where the exclusive economic zones of Japan and China are in dispute, with Russia the LDP are unhapppy with Ruskies , Junichiro Koizumi said "Japan cannot be content" with the offer, insisting all the Kurils should be ruled under the Imperial Rising Sun flag...Banzai !!

When is China or Russia going to start playing hardball with Nippon ?

Because the S.Koreans look chicken

[Big Booger]

Russia has said it once considered to giving up two of the islands seized during World War II, but Japan wants all of them returned, so thnanks to stubborn Nippon stupidity the Japanese now get nothing....talk about biting the hand that feeds you. Ministery of Education decisions to publish rightwinger Nazi-textbooks have usually met with an outcry from neighbours China and South Korea, who regularly accuse the ministry of giving the nod to history textbooks that whitewash Japan's dubious Imperial World War II legacy. Liberal Democratic Party is considering introducing a new law to ensure the safety of Japanese vessels if they begin gas exploration in the East China Sea, where the exclusive economic zones of Japan and China are in dispute, with Russia the LDP are unhapppy with Ruskies , Junichiro Koizumi said "Japan cannot be content" with the offer, insisting all the Kurils should be ruled under the Imperial Rising Sun flag...Banzai !!

When is China or Russia going to start playing hardball with Nippon ?

Because the S.Koreans look chicken

IN those disputed economic zones you fail to mention that China has already started their exploitation... I mean exploration for gas. So why shouldn't Japan?

I totally agree that Japan missed a great opportunity to settle with the Russians and split the disputed territories with them.. that was a mistake.

[kurohinge1]

Speaking of Russia & Japan ...

Russia Boards Japanese Fishing Boat Off Hokkaido, Holds 6 Crew

June 9 (Bloomberg) -- Six crewmen of a Japanese fishing boat seized in the Sea of Okhotsk yesterday by Russian border guards are safe, the Japan Coast Guard said.

The 30-ton Mantai Maru No. 52, was stopped and searched 120 kilometers (about 75 miles) off Cape Notori, in the northern Japanese island of Hokkaido, the coast guard said in a press release yesterday, citing one of the ship's owners who was not aboard.

Russian border guards said the crew of the vessel did not respond to repeated radio calls from ships and planes, said Takashi Sato, a coast guard official in Hokkaido. The Coast Guard sent three ships and two planes to the area and confirmed the boat was taken to Russian territory, but has not determined whether the fishing boat entered Russian territory during the search, Sato said.

Crew members called the boat owner around 4 a.m. today to say all aboard are safe, Sato said.

That would've been an interesting phone call to over hear.

[Buraku]

special Month for stupid Lioncourt rocks

An assembly in S Korea passed an ordinance designating October as "Tokto Month" ( Dokdo ) to underline the country's claim to sovereignty over a pair of islets known as Takeshima in Japan.

[L S]

What a disgrace. The Japanese were given democracy on a silver platter by the US after the war, and completely squandered it. The South Koreans, for all their faults, really struggled to get the genuine multi-party democracy they have today.

There is a myth that democracy is a one size fits all solution. That everyone wants it and that if doesn't work it's because they didn't appreciate it. It may or may not be the best thing since sliced bread, but it has a long ways to go to prove itself and its ability to work within different cultural and situational contexts, especially Asia. The concept of democracy as we see it today has only had a short life in the history of mankind. Also, remember the democratic experiment undertaken in the formation of the US was not all that perfect. There was a civil war that directly took the lives of over half million American soldiers and almost another half million indirect deaths due to the war.

[cstaylor]

As Churchill put it, "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those others that have been tried".

Can you offer up another solution that suits asia better? Autocracy?

[FG Lurker]

As Churchill put it, "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those others that have been tried".

Can you offer up another solution that suits asia better? Autocracy?

Anything is better than democracy -- as long as you are at (or nearly at) the top of the system!

If you're stuck at the bottom then you're fucked in any case, but probably least fucked in a democracy.

[L S]

As Churchill put it, "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those others that have been tried".

Can you offer up another solution that suits asia better? Autocracy?

I always support the concept of Beerocracy. It fits within most cultural contexts and allows for greater freedom of expression. Although it is unlikely to get support in many Muslim nations....

[altar]

Can you back that up with a credible source or is it just your personal opinion? I ask because I have been reading a lot about the UNSC expansion but never came across anything to suggest that US does not want japan in the UNSC.

US steps on Japan's toes

Since Washington's plan, which envisages only two new permanent UNSC members, basically amounts to a rejection of the G-4 proposals, which demand six new permanent seats, Tokyo now sees its own prospects of success as being drastically diminished. Immensely complicating the matter is the fact that Japan is also dependent on resolute US support to fend off Beijing from wielding its veto.

"Yeah sure we really support our Japanses friends, but not the others (like that we're sure nobody will get a seat, hhhhhh)"

[Buraku]

who is worse ?










So guys who has the most f*cked up mindset
is it the the Korean kiddy ? or the Japan adult poltician like Mori and Blinky - who call foreign immigration to Japan a scource of genetic pollution

In South Korea, 63 percent said they disliked Japan, up from 57 percent in 2001.

S. Koreans overwhelmingly oppose Koizumi's bid for UN, Sixty percent of South Koreans dislike Japan and 80 percent oppose Japan's bid for a permanent seat on the U.N. Security Council, a survey showed.

On Japan's U.N. Security Council bid, 87 percent of South Koreans and 84 percent of Chinese objected.

[Buraku]

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/620cc92c-f7be-11d9-9f64-00000e2511c8.html
http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/nation/200507/kt2005070620370711980.htm
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?F=967850&C=asiapac
Even in peacetime, nationalism in east Asia is not an abstract concept but a matter of flesh and blood.

South Korea Navy Launches Largest Ship

vessel has been named Dokdo

[AssKissinger]

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/620cc92c-f7be-11d9-9f64-00000e2511c8.html
http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/nation/200507/kt2005070620370711980.htm
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?F=967850&C=asiapac
Even in peacetime, nationalism in east Asia is not an abstract concept but a matter of flesh and blood.

South Korea Navy Launches Largest Ship

vessel has been named Dokdo

Wow. Japan better give it up. If that ain't a clear message of how serious they are about it then nothing is.

[Buraku]

Kim Jong-pil and Takeshima
http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/nation/200508/kt2005083117012010600.htm
http://mdn.mainichi-msn.co.jp/national/news/20050826p2a00m0na023000c.html

[homesweethome]

Kim Jong-pil and Takeshima
http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/nation/200508/kt2005083117012010600.htm
http://mdn.mainichi-msn.co.jp/national/news/20050826p2a00m0na023000c.html

You hit a home run with this one B.
AMEN!

[Buraku]

[quote="dingosatemybaby"]

Political dwarves indeed. I love how the Japanese media always sanctimoniously points out how Japan is a democracy, in contradistinction to the big, bad commies who rule China. Well, dingo doesn't see the big difference between the two. The CCP has ruled China since 1949]


Nippon politics is a joke

[Buraku]

Ocotber-08-2005
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200510/200510070019.html
The F-15K next-generation fighter jet, which is set to become the heart of Korea's airspace defense, is refueled midair (upper) as its impressive figure passes above the Pacific Ocean (lower) on its way to the military airport in Seongnam, outskirts of Seoul, on Friday. The fighters departed from Boeing's production plant in St. Louis on Sunday, made a stopover in the Hickam Air Force Base in Hawaii and the Anderson Air Force Base in Guam during their 15,962 kilometer flight.

[gkanai]

The Air Force is phasing out its old F-4D Phantoms, which were introduced in the 1960s, by 2011.

!!!

They're still flying Phantoms?!?!?

Holy crap.