Cheap Screamin' PC?

[mr. sparkle]

Hey Gang,
You know I'm a Mac dude, but I am thinking about getting a PC for running some stuff that won't run on the Mac. I don't want to go too crazy on the price, but I want a fast enough rig to run editing and compositing apps.

This is my minimum:

Processors: Dual or Single 2.4 GHz Xeon processor OR Pentium 4 1.6 GHz processor.

Operating System: Windows XP Professional w/ Service Pack 2

System Memory: 1 GB system memory, preferably 1.5 GB.

Graphics cards: NVidia QuadroFX 1400 PCI Express, NVidia QuadroFX 1300 PCI Express, Nvidia QuadroFX 1100 AGP 8X, NVidia QuadroFX 500 AGP 8X or NVidia Quadro4 980 XGL AGP 8X

IEEE-1394 PCI card

Internal disk drive: 80 GB or larger

CD or DVD-ROM drive, preferably DVD burner

Any suggestions? I know eBay is dangerous, but you can get a lot of bang for the buck if you're careful, no?

[cstaylor]

Is there a reason you want Intel (SSE/SSE2 optimizations in video compression codecs), because AMD runs very well. For some extra money you can buy dual-core AMD64 processors that will let you put a compression job in the background and still have access to your PC.

[FG Lurker]

Any suggestions?

Yeap, two:

1. Get someone to custom-build you an AMD Opteron-based setup.

or

2. Buy a Dell Precision Workstation.

My preference would be for #1 for the following reasons:

1. I'd sooner support a top-quality local business than give money to Dell. After-sale service is usually better too.

2. The Opteron is the best x86 CPU available. Lower power, dual cores, excellent CPU interconnect. It's amazing technology, far ahead of what Intel is selling these days.

3. I prefer the absolute flexibility of a custom-built system.


I would ask around where you live and find out what the top two or three computer shops are for custom PCs. There will be a few top-tier shops known for excellent service and quality. Talk to these shops and get price quotes from them. Pick one and then stick with them for your PC needs as much as you can.

[cstaylor]

I like Shuttle cases if you don't have a need for a lot of internal storage. If you're going AMD, avoid the ST20G5 (I have one) and make sure you get a Socket 939 model. That leaves you three other models with NVidia chipsets. From what I've heard, the NVidia chipsets don't interoperate with ATI video cards very well, so you may need to get an NVidia card for best use.

Makes you wish you stayed on Mac, huh?

[FG Lurker]

From what I've heard, the NVidia chipsets don't interoperate with ATI video cards very well, so you may need to get an NVidia card for best use.

Interesting...I've not heard this and haven't had problems. Is it a recent thing?

[cstaylor]

Just chatter I picked up on SFF Forums. Haven't seen the problem myself, but my ST20G5 doesn't have an Nvidia chipset.

Speaking of Shuttles, these work very well as Linux servers. I have our smaller customers use them running Gentoo Linux on Celerons with no problems at all.

[FG Lurker]

Just chatter I picked up on SFF Forums. Haven't seen the problem myself, but my ST20G5 doesn't have an Nvidia chipset.

Speaking of Shuttles, these work very well as Linux servers. I have our smaller customers use them running Gentoo Linux on Celerons with no problems at all.

Interesting... About 16,000yen. The Cubes are getting cheaper.

I'm debating picking up one or two of these as network fileservers:

http://www.kuroutoshikou.com/products/kuro-box/kuro-box_hgfset.html
http://www.kakaku.com/prdsearch/detail.asp?PrdKey=05399710181

Basically it is 266MHz PPC with 128MB of memory and it runs Linux. Totally open and customizable. Comes with gig-e and a single IDE bay. For 16,000 it is a pretty good deal...

[cstaylor]

266 is a little slow. Shuttles run very quiet, and you for an extra couple hundred you'll have a 2.4Ghz machine.

[mr. sparkle]

Getting an NFR of Xpress Pro and also want to run some accounting software that is PC only.

Wanna be able to run Avid Xpress Pro HD and it pretty much says Pentium and Operton are the only procs they work with.

http://www.avid.com/products/xpressprohd/specs.asp

Here are the certifed choices, in order for most desirable on down according to Avid:

HP Workstation xw8200, single or dual Xeon 3.4GHz or faster
1 GB memory minimum, 1.5 GB recommended
NVIDIA Quadro FX1300 or NVIDIA Quadro FX 1400 graphics card
Includes integrated 1394 port

Dell Precision Workstation 670 dual 3.0 GHz (or faster)
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1300 or 1400 graphics card
Includes integrated 1394 port

HP Workstation xw8000 dual Xeon
NVIDIA Quadro4 980XGL or Quadro FX 1100 graphics card . Includes integrated 1394 port

IBM Intellistation MPro 6225, 3.2GHz (or faster) Pentium 4 Workstation
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1300 or FX 1400 graphics card
Includes integrated 1394 port

IBM Intellistation ZPro 6223 single or dual Xeon, 3.2GHz (or faster)
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1300 or 1400 graphics card
Includes integrated 1394 port

for IBM Intellistation ZPro 6223

Dell Precision Workstation 650 dual Xeon
NVIDIA Quadro FX 500 graphics card
Includes integrated 1394 port

Compaq Evo W8000 dual Xeon
NVIDIA Quadro4 980 XGL graphics card

HP xw4300 Workstation, 3.2 GHz Pentium 4 with NVIDIA Quadro FX1300 or FX1400 graphics card

HP Workstation xw4100 Pentium 4 with
NVIDIA Quadro4 980 XGL graphics card.
Includes integrated 1394 port

HP Workstation xw4000 Pentium 4 with
NVIDIA Quadro4 980 XGL graphics card

Dell Precision Workstation 380 Pentium 4 with
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1400 graphics card

If it's too painful to buy a PC, then I'll stick to my Macs for video stuff. I'll still need a cheap PC to run this software:

http://www.neatreceipts.com/

May be the way to go since building a PC Workstation is not cheap and could be spent towards a Quad Proc Mac.

[Ol Dirty Gaijin]

From what I've heard, the NVidia chipsets don't interoperate with ATI video cards very well, so you may need to get an NVidia card for best use.

Interesting...I've not heard this and haven't had problems. Is it a recent thing?

ATI used to be pretty poor with OpenGL. Sounds like it still might the case.

[FG Lurker]

266 is a little slow. Shuttles run very quiet, and you for an extra couple hundred you'll have a 2.4Ghz machine.

CPU power isn't necessary if everything runs via DMA or similar. I'm quite curious how well a small toaster like that would perform as a NAS device, especially how well it would/could feed a gig-e NIC.

That shuttle is tempting though. Stuff in a slow Celeron and a stick of memory and go. The trouble is that everything has to be configured manually, where the toaster above is plug-and-go. Guess I'm getting old, but these days I don't want to spend time messing around trying to make shit work.

[American Oyaji]

Ok, I'm gonna jump into this.

What if I was desiring to build a screaming gaming machine, but on the cheap. I know i'm gonna pay for ram and the video card, but do you guys recommend going with a custom build over a preset build like Dell?

[emperor]

Ok, I'm gonna jump into this.
What if I was desiring to build a screaming gaming machine, but on the cheap. I know i'm gonna pay for ram and the video card, but do you guys recommend going with a custom build over a preset build like Dell?

for best value in a video card try the nvidia 6800gt - its second from the top, but has been out about a year and the newly unveiled flagship model has knocked down the price.

for RAM i got 'corsair' branded - its supposed to be among the best - but only in terms of latancy really - and that a difficult thing to notice the difference in

if you did buy a preset from dell, it would be cheaper to get the ram from a 3rd party - they dont rip you off as much as apple, but you can usually get it for cheaper elsewhere.

[cstaylor]

That shuttle is tempting though. Stuff in a slow Celeron and a stick of memory and go. The trouble is that everything has to be configured manually, where the toaster above is plug-and-go. Guess I'm getting old, but these days I don't want to spend time messing around trying to make shit work.

Ah, someone who has never owned a shuttle. Shuttles are completely auto-configured: just plug in the CPU and RAM, and the BIOS defaults will handle everything for you.

If you're planning on doing any compiles or installs on that box, 266mhz won't be enough. If you're interested in firewalls, I'd suggest a Soekris net4501 or net4801 with m0n0wall (that's what we install for our customers).

[IkemenTommy]

for best value in a video card try the nvidia 6800gt - its second from the top, but has been out about a year and the newly unveiled flagship model has knocked down the price.

That's what I got.. I got the 6800nu with unlocked pipelines to make it a GT. I get the same benchmark scores as the GT. I have the huge heatsink/no fan type so the baby is quiet.

The 6600 gt is a better deal. The 6800 is still pretty expensive at most places.

[emperor]

for best value in a video card try the nvidia 6800gt - its second from the top, but has been out about a year and the newly unveiled flagship model has knocked down the price.

That's what I got.. I got the 6800nu with unlocked pipelines to make it a GT. I get the same benchmark scores as the GT. I have the huge heatsink/no fan type so the baby is quiet.
The 6600 gt is a better deal. The 6800 is still pretty expensive at most places.

Thats what I have

..but AO was talking about building "a screaming gaming machine" - and while my 6600gt does me proud - it wont do something recent like Quake 4 at the highest setting without a fair bit of chopiness

[American Oyaji]

I think I will build my own computer. i.e., but the parts myself and assemble it myself.

I've never done it, but I know I can and its a project that suits me.

Plus overall, it would probably be cheaper.

What do you guys think?

[cstaylor]

I've never done it, but I know I can and its a project that suits me.

I think you should find a friend that has built one before to show you the ropes... you'll stress less if you can rely on someone who knows what can and cannot be done.

[FG Lurker]

That shuttle is tempting though. Stuff in a slow Celeron and a stick of memory and go. The trouble is that everything has to be configured manually, where the toaster above is plug-and-go. Guess I'm getting old, but these days I don't want to spend time messing around trying to make shit work.

Ah, someone who has never owned a shuttle. Shuttles are completely auto-configured: just plug in the CPU and RAM, and the BIOS defaults will handle everything for you.

All barebones PCs are like this... Actually as far as CPU configurations go, all motherboards are like this.

Building the PC is not the problem, even the time to build from scratch is not really the problem, although it is tedious. The problem is messing around with OS installs, reinstalls, updates, configurations, yada yada yada. When things go well they go well. But when they don't...... This is the appeal of a toaster device like the one I linked to originally. You literally plug in the disk and do some very basic config....and that's it, forever.

If you're planning on doing any compiles or installs on that box, 266mhz won't be enough.

A 266MHz PPC is not a terrible CPU for an embedded system, but I wouldn't be doing compiles etc on the box...Actually, as mentioned above, not having to do any of that would be the biggest reason for getting the box. ]If you're interested in firewalls, I'd suggest a Soekris net4501 or net4801 with m0n0wall (that's what we install for our customers).[/quote]
I use Cisco at work and generally SonicWall with private consulting clients. Personally I run a SmoothWall at home, but am considering IP Cop right now as well as they have come a long way and have some very interesting features.

[FG Lurker]

I think I will build my own computer. i.e., but the parts myself and assemble it myself.

I've never done it, but I know I can and its a project that suits me.

Building a PC is not difficult, but you have to be careful when you select which parts to buy.

Plus overall, it would probably be cheaper.

Building a computer to save money is generally not a good idea -- you end up cutting corners and this causes you problems. People often buy a cheapo case which comes with a power supply, for example... Cheap & nasty power supplies can cause all sorts of nasty problems. Or people buy cheap memory to save money...and cheap memory can lead to stability problems galore.

You will probably end up spending as much or more than you would on a Dell, but you can get exactly what you want in exactly the case you want. The downside of course is that you basically have no warranty and you have to take care of anything that happens to go wrong. Especially if you buy your parts off the net this can be frustrating and time consuming -- and costly as you have to pay to ship stuff back to them.

[IkemenTommy]

it wont do something recent like Quake 4 at the highest setting without a fair bit of chopiness

Quake4 is out already?
I played Quake3 for about 5 minutes and I lost interest

[emperor]

it wont do something recent like Quake 4 at the highest setting without a fair bit of chopiness

Quake4 is out already?
I played Quake3 for about 5 minutes and I lost interest

its ok i suppose, only took a few hours to finish it though, same look and feel as doom 3.

aside from the mediocre praise i bestow.. its totally pwned by battlefield 2

i got raven shield 3 a while back - and not so long ago i noticed ubisoft went and offered a FREE addon pack for download & they usually sell these .... um cool

[rebuto]

[oyajikun]

[IkemenTommy]

its ok i suppose, only took a few hours to finish it though, same look and feel as doom 3.

aside from the mediocre praise i bestow.. its totally pwned by battlefield 2

i got raven shield 3 a while back - and not so long ago i noticed ubisoft went and offered a FREE addon pack for download & they usually sell these .... um cool

I've been out of the gaming scene for awhile. I'm relying heavily on my tiny notebook now stealing free wireless on the fly.

Does anyone still play Wolfenstein Enemy Territory?

[mr. sparkle]

Can you guys suggest something that would satisfy the system requirements for Avid Xpress I listed on the first page of this post?

[cstaylor]

If you're going with Xeon processors (which was recommmended on that page) you're not getting away cheap. Your best bet would be a Dell Precision Workstation 670, which starts at $1300 (and that's without enough RAM or disk space for video editing) that you can custom order from their page.

[mr. sparkle]

If you're going with Xeon processors (which was recommmended on that page) you're not getting away cheap. Your best bet would be a Dell Precision Workstation 670, which starts at $1300 (and that's without enough RAM or disk space for video editing) that you can custom order from their page.

The 380 is acceptable to run Avid and you can get into one pretty cheaply from the Dell Outlet. Only prob is that the video card's not up to snuff in the cheaper options.

So my choice is get something I'll have to build up a bit as I go, OR get a cheap one to fill the gap--then later get my screamer.

I assume that most folks would suggest getting a $750 rig that is upgradable and workable for my future needs rather than going for a $399 cheapo.

[IkemenTommy]

If you are wanting to get a decent computer with good specs, then expect to pay a little more or build one with used parts. You can't build a blazing fast, "screaming" computer on a celeron budget. I think used parts are more reliable because they've already gone through the stress test and less likely to fail. Most computer hardware these days last a long time if they aren't overclocked or run in other extreme conditions.

[FG Lurker]

If you are wanting to get a decent computer with good specs, then expect to pay a little more or build one with used parts. You can't build a blazing fast, "screaming" computer on a celeron budget. I think used parts are more reliable because they've already gone through the stress test and less likely to fail. Most computer hardware these days last a long time if they aren't overclocked or run in other extreme conditions.

Used parts are very much luck-of-the-draw -- a draw with rather poor odds, too.

Whenever someone has a slightly flaky motherboard, memory, graphics card, etc, maybe one that fails only on hot summer days, or maybe it starts doing random things after an hour or so of use.... Guess what they do with it? Off to the used shop. Used shops give what they buy a cursory test at best, and then give the next purchaser anywhere from 0 days to 2 weeks warranty. The amount saved is very rarely worth the potential problems.