HK actress for "Memoirs of a Geisha"?

[gkanai]

That Geisha movie is a trainwreck waiting to happen. How are they going to market a geisha movie in Japan where the 3 female leads are not Japanese? Did "Lost in Translation" make it in Japan? Of course not.

[Mulboyne]

That Geisha movie is a trainwreck waiting to happen. How are they going to market a geisha movie in Japan where the 3 female leads are not Japanese? Did "Lost in Translation" make it in Japan? Of course not.

Too early to call. "Last Samurai" wasn't expected to do well in Japan by the film business here but it went down a storm. Reports from the set on Samurai were all about historical inaccuracy and the lack of Japanese advisors. There is also scepticism over Geisha here but, having been spectatcularly wrong once, most commentators are keeping their counsel. I'm more interested in whether it will play well in the US. If it doesn't make any money then that will put paid to more than a few Japan-related projects currently in the works.

[Mulboyne]

USAToday: 'Geisha': It's the essence of retail spinoffs
A nice, blended green tea to follow your rice face wash, perhaps? Those are just two of the spinoff products, already on store shelves, inspired by the film Memoirs of a Geisha, which doesn't even open until Dec. 9. "Opportunistic synergy" is how John Barker of DZP Marketing Communications describes the retail partnerships. "I can't think of another movie that has prompted retailers to go into new product lines," he says. Most of the products are, predictably, aimed at women...Banana Republic, for example, has launched a limited-edition line of Asian-influenced apparel and accessories including a kimono-inspired dress and tops, shoes, handbags and a jacket...From The Republic of Tea comes Spring Cherry Green Tea, a Japanese Sencha green tea blended with cherries, rose petals and white tea buds. Its packaging features the film's star, Ziyi Zhang...Tonner Dolls introduces a Geisha collection early next year...Fresh, a beauty products company partnering with Bath & Body Works, is offering a Memoirs of a Geisha collection [see earlier in this thread]...Newmarket has published Memoirs of a Geisha: Portrait of the Film, an art/photography book with an introduction by Golden.

[Greener]

I've seen the trailers for this film and while it looks very well shot, the feel is way too Chinese. I think the casting was also terrible for the most part. Here's how I would have cast the female leads:

Sayuri: Yukie Nakama (She's the "it girl" in Japan and has this kawaii elegance about her. Perfect combo for Sayuri and she has the unusual, dark eyes everyone fawns over in the book.)

Mameha: Naho Toda (The perfect oval face alone clinches it for her but her bitchy mannerisms she showed in Shomuni completes the package as Mameha is no better than Hatsumomo other than the fact that she has more of a heart and is a bit smarter.)

Hatsumomo: Norika Fujiwara (Has the look, the mannerisms and the attitude down pat as it is.)

Pumpkin: That annoying Vicki girl from all of those panel shows. (The FG who tries way too hard to be a JGirl...)

Chairman: Abe Hiroshi (his chemestry with Yukie on TricK and his look make this way too easy a selection.)

Not sure about the others, (Nobu could be just about anyone as long as the makeup is well done and I really don't know who could pull off Auntie and Mother.) That's all for now.

[Greji]

The lead was meant for Tanaka Yoshiko and only her!

[ichigo partygirl]

It was a mistake to put such a well known chinese actress as the lead. I just couldnt get psat the fact she was chinese when i watched the trailor. This role would of been perfect for an unknown actress, somebody who the audience does not have images about already.
However in saying that the costumes look amazing. Ken Watanabe is so incredibale that the movie might be worth seeing for his performance alone; in my opinion it was his performance that saved 'The Last Samurai'.

[cstaylor]

I wonder if the majority of the American public that sees this movie would even notice the difference if the actress was Chinese or Japanese?

[ichigo partygirl]

I wonder if the majority of the American public that sees this movie would even notice the difference if the actress was Chinese or Japanese?

average person would not. However she is a famous actress, even in western countries so most movie goers will know she is chinese. SO its not so much that they would not know, its that they probably dont care

[Greji]

I wonder if the majority of the American public that sees this movie would even notice the difference if the actress was Chinese or Japanese?

Probably very few and even so, with maybe the exception of a few activists, nobody will even make a comment about it i.e. the broadbased "all Asians look alike" syndrome.

[Mulboyne]

[Greener]

Ah, Becky, not Vicky. Thanks, she would make a very amusing Pumpkin.

As for the cast I chose, I wasn't thinking along the lines of weather or not they could speak English because I would prefer to have the film completely made in Japanese with Japanese actors and Japanese directors. Then subtitled or dubbed into English. The more authentic the better for a movie like this one IMO.

[Mulboyne]

Zonaeuropa.com: Zhang Ziyi's Butt and the Face of the Chinese People

Previously, Danwei had told us about the alleged nude photographs of Chinese actress Zhang Ziyi in the new movie Memoirs of a Geisha (see sample below). By now, it is clear that these poor-quality photographs were taken from some other movie(s) (see Kaiju Shakedown: Zhang Ziyi Definitely Not Naked). But when the film gets released in December, Zhang Ziyi may still have a nude scene or more. What then? Undoubtedly, this will re-ignite the issue of whether it was a national disgrace for a Chinese woman to be screwed by a Japanese man (or Japanese men). As an anti-dote, the following is a translation of an article at New Century Net (backup copy is here)

This is apparently the kind of comment that appeared on Chinese sites:

She is not being screwed by just one Japanese person, for she is being screwed by every Japanese person! She is not the only person to be screwed by the Japanese people, for every Chinese person is being screwed by the Japanese people! She let shame fall on the Chinese people! How could such a person deserve to be a Chinese?

[cstaylor]

I guess some overly serious ultrapatriots have never heard of "acting".

[Mulboyne]

LADailyNews: The right director, right star in 'Memoirs of a Geisha'

...Then there was the matter of finding an actress to play Sayuri, the fisherman's daughter torn from her family to work as a servant in a geisha house and to later become a legendary geisha herself. The part required someone who could be credible playing both a 15-year-old girl and a 30-year-old woman, someone who could dance, speak English and, yes, carry a movie. The part went to Ziyi Zhang..."She has an Audrey Hepburn glow," Wick says. "You get the innocence, but she's also credible, with the glamour and sophistication." Says the 26-year-old Zhang: "It's amazing to find this role. The character is so true, both to the culture and to women. I can't believe an American man wrote it."

LATimes: Hurry. Somebody call Spider-Man

...Sony began to examine and evaluate its decision-making procedures. "Nobody wants to be where we are today," says Amy Pascal, head of the motion picture group for Sony Pictures Entertainment. "And we've got to figure out how it happened." Sony recently sought out a financial partner for the upcoming, $85-million adaptation of "Memoirs of a Geisha"...

Courant.com: Geisha Glam

...The people marketing "Memoirs of a Geisha" know a thing of beauty when they see it. They're banking that you will, too. The print ad for the Dec. 9 film is a tight shot of the bewitching, insanely gorgeous Ziyi Zhang, star of the movie version of the best-selling Arthur Golden novel. Her eyes are tinged blue like a Hokkaido sky; her lips are as red as sea coral. You can practically feel the layers of a silk kimono, hear the snap of gold fans and paper parasols, see the fluttering petals of cherry blossoms...It's intoxicating. And brilliantly deliberate. If one movie had a natural tie-in to beauty and fashion this year it's "Memoirs." Both Banana Republic and Fresh (a boutique beauty brand) will enjoy tremendous exposure courtesy of exclusive partnerships with Sony..."The movie is a lot about beauty," said Lev Glazman, co-founder of Fresh along with his wife and business partner, Alina Roytberg. "Everything about geisha has to be understated. It has to have an understated sensuality. It must create an air around you that is clean, deep and sensual...This line is so different in the way we're positioning it because it's linked to the movie and the movie is all about beauty," said Glazman, adding that when he first read the book he instantly saw the beauty. "Geisha treated themselves to the finest of everything. We wanted this to be like a day in the life of a geisha."

[Mulboyne]

Yet another post in this thread today. Time got a look at the film and put together a big feature:


Time: Hollywood's Asian Romance

...director Rob Marshall triumphs in bringing Arthur Golden's 1997 worldwide best seller lusciously to life as a sumptuous love story...Marshall, whose first big film, the 2002 musical Chicago, won the Oscar for best picture, here tops that effort, in dramatic breadth and emotional depth...Memoirs of a Geisha is the Cinderella story, with Sayuri as the young heroine, Mameha as the fairy godmother, Hatsumomo as the evil stepmother and the Chairman as Sayuri's prince charming...Amy Pascal, Sony Pictures' movie chief, says of her studio's $80 million investment, which is cheap for a film of such grand range, but a lot for one without bankable Western names. "I'm hoping the film appeals to people who have ever been in love."

Click on the Time over below and you'll find a couple of related articles

[Greji]

[Mulboyne]

A differing view on the film:

I am not the demographic intended for a movie like Memoirs of a Geisha...I didn't much care for the movie. It bored me. I didn't really care for any of the characters or their fates. I felt the Sayuri/Hatsumomo rivalry could have been taken out of an episode of Dynasty. I kind of had a feeling where it was all headed in the end, and it was just a matter of going through a lot (and I mean A LOT) of plot points to get there. What would have made a fascinating read, I didn't feel translated all that well to the screen. That's not to say it doesn't try, though. for as much as I didn't like the movie, it doesn't mean I abhor it, or wouldn't recommend it to people who might actually enjoy this...Visually, it's beautiful. Dion Bebe is the cinematographer, and photographs lush colors and textures in a very calming, serene manner. Great color palette. And the music by John Williams is top notch...The actors are decent, although there is something to be said about a movie featuring an all Asian cast that practically forces them to speak English. I feel it would have worked better if the film was subtitled, but that might turn a lot of people off.

Spoiler Below

Oh, on the actor front, I have to bring this one thing up, and it's probably the only time you will ever see these two movies mentioned in the same paragraph. Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa stars in the film as the lecherous Baron, who is the primary sponsor of Michelle Yeoh's Geisha, even though he lusts after Sayuri. In one scene, the Baron brings Sayuri into his house to offer her a kimono, and winds up assaulting her sexually. (Although she does not lose her virginity, a point that means a lot later on in the film). But the scene is almost a direct shot for shot of Tagawa's OTHER lecherous sexual assault scene from that masterpiece of cinema Showdown in Little Tokyo, which starred Dolph Lundgren and Brandon Lee. Now, like I said, I'm probably the ONLY person in the theater who would have picked that up, but if it's there, I have to point it out. The sad thing is, I prefer the scene from Showdown, but I think it's because it's shorter, has nudity, and ends with a beheading.

See New Still Shots from the Film

[Mulboyne]

[Captain Japan]

This movie is going under the title "Sayuri" in Japan, right?
http://www.movies.co.jp/sayuri/

[Captain Japan]

[Greener]

Yukie has an aura of elegance to her as well as a classic goofy side. (Trick and Gokusen covered both sides very well.)



But again, the feeling in the movie is way too chinese and Geishas are distinctively Japanese. Mixing and matching cultures because they "look" Asian is not the way to go. Then again, I would have made the film completely in Japanese and gone the Crouching Tiger route and dubbed it into English later.

[Mulboyne]

Reuters: 'Geisha' loses Japanese nuances on big screen(Hollywood Reporter Review)

The movie version, directed by "Chicago's" Rob Marshall and written by Robin Swicord, has, frankly, Americanized the story. The filmmakers have made the characters crasser, they ignore nuances within geisha tradition and give characters attitudes and dialogue highly unlikely for Depression-era Japan. The heroine, who in time becomes a legendary geisha, is modeled in the film more after a willful, modern American teen than a young Japanese woman...more...

So this is how they deal with the language issue:

Dark Horizons: Interview with Rob Marshall

Question: Why start with the characters speaking Japanese and then segue into English?

Marshall: The reason is because I wanted to enter into this world in somewhat sort of an authentic way, like we're appearing into a world. One of the things we did throughout the movie was shoot the movie through materials, through bamboo, through silks, things like that, to give a sense that we're appearing into a unique world, a hidden world. I wanted to start the movie in Japanese so you'd have a sense of disorientation and feel that you're in a place that's foreign and odd to you. And then once the voiceover begins you understand that it's being narrated and being told as a memoir. As soon as the English voice takes over then the rest of the movie is translated to us in English.

That's the same solution used in, I think, "The Longest Day". The German war room showed everyone initially speaking German. Then the camera drew up to show just a major character's mouth and at that point the actor began speaking German-accented English. The camera drew back and from that point all dialogue was in English.

[Mulboyne]

Dark Horizons: Interview with Ziyi Zhang

...Zhang also researched geishas and disagrees with the criticism that the film romanticizes the life of the geisha. "I think geisha are artists as well as very strong and independent" she maintains. "Of course they live in a very special world and have a very strict code of conduct. For instance, if they loved somebody, they had to hide their true feelings. I think, if it were me, I couldn't do that, I'd just tell the person. I couldn't wait for ten years!" she adds laughingly. "They are very brave and not at all like servants, but very well respected in Japan."

[Taro Toporific]

Hollywood geisha raise eyebrows in Asia
Yahoo! Top Stories - Mon Nov 28, 5:52 AM ET
..."Memoirs," reported to have cost its makers $85 million, can ill afford to alienate moviegoers in Japan, the second biggest market for Hollywood films.
But some have already expressed anger at what they see as a cavalier attitude to the subtleties of traditional costume and dance in a movie largely shot on a specially built set in California.
"According to this film, 'geisha' dance in a bizarre fashion, as if they were in a Los Angeles strip show," one Japanese film fan complained on a Web log, or blog, adding that the lights and special effects were more reminiscent of modern Las Vegas than old Kyoto.
"We should boycott this film and send a clear message to Hollywood. Why on earth have they made a film making fun of the Japanese, when they cannot get by without us?" the blog continued.
Chinese bloggers were outraged.
"She's {Zhang} sold her soul and betrayed her country. Hacking her to death would not be good enough," China's state media quoted one blogger as saying of Zhang.....
...."It's a Hollywood movie. It's just entertainment, so what can we do?" said an official at the Kyoto Traditional Musical Art Foundation, which promotes the music, dance and other arts of old Japan. "Hollywood has always done things like ignoring history."
"Complaining about it will just focus attention on it, so we plan to ignore it," he added, saying that the foundation had turned down requests to take part in promotional events connected with the premiere....

[Mulboyne]

Captain Japan's friend, Deborah Cameron, has turned up a geisha who thinks they should use the film as a marketing effort:

Noriye's hope is that Memoirs of a Geisha, the movie that is having its world premiere in Tokyo on Tuesday, will inspire international interest and respect. Foreigners, who she sees now about twice a month, might be more inclined to engage a geisha because of it, she thinks. "I've heard that the geisha of Kyoto are not happy at all with the movie," she says shaking her head at the lost opportunity to promote one of the most recognisably Japanese of icons.

[Mulboyne]

Telegraph: Memoirs of a very controversial geisha
Japanese cinema audiences tend not to whoop and holler to show their approval for films, which can make it hard to gauge their reactions. Even so, the applause that followed the world premiere of Memoirs of a Geisha in Tokyo this week was warm enough to bring a smile to the features of American director Rob Marshall...Concerns about the film's authenticity linger mainly in small pockets. Its British distributors, Buena Vista International UK, arranged for me and a small group to meet and talk to two geishas. Mikiko, a young woman in her twenties, joined the profession after graduating from university, "because I loved the kimonos".

She had doubts about the film: "Being a geisha isn't something you just pick up to star in a movie. Putting on a kimono and learning how to wear it and move inside it takes years." Chinese actresses, she felt, could not look genuine: "They even have different hairlines from us."

But in fairness, Memoirs of a Geisha could never recoup its $85 million budget merely by appealing to geishas...Informal questioning of the audience after the film suggested that many young Japanese know little of the geisha life. Nor can the film hope for global success without stellar casting - and no Japanese actress has the international appeal of Zhang, Gong Li or Yeoh.

[kamome]

no Japanese actress has the international appeal of Zhang, Gong Li or Yeoh.

If any movie could propel a Japanese actress to international superstardom, it would be this one. Maybe there are no Japanese actresses who currently have such international appeal, but what's wrong with taking an unknown and making her a star? I bet many in the Japanese acting community are thinking this. Certainly, there are talented J-actresses out there.

I think the movie is perpetuating a catch-22 by claiming there are no internationally appealing J-actresses and then refusing to cast one who could grow into that role.

[Captain Japan]

Maybe there are no Japanese actresses who currently have such international appeal, but what's wrong with taking an unknown and making her a star? I bet many in the Japanese acting community are thinking this. Certainly, there are talented J-actresses out there.

It's a risk issue considering this is a big movie. Would you want to fork over the boatloads of cash if the star were one of the questions? I think you'd probably step back from the table like everyone else.

[Mulboyne]

If any movie could propel a Japanese actress to international superstardom, it would be this one. Maybe there are no Japanese actresses who currently have such international appeal, but what's wrong with taking an unknown and making her a star? I bet many in the Japanese acting community are thinking this. Certainly, there are talented J-actresses out there.

I think the movie is perpetuating a catch-22 by claiming there are no internationally appealing J-actresses and then refusing to cast one who could grow into that role.

That is not the way Hollywood works for a big budget film. What Japanese actors should be asking themselves is why Hollywood is prepared to trust Zhangi Ziyi, Gong Li and Michelle Yeo with the film? I rambled about this on Gen's blog earlier this year. It's bad form to quote yourself but...

Marshall did look for a Japanese actor who could carry the film - if only because he was keenly aware of the Japanese box office - but he couldn't find one. That doesn't surprise me at all. There are some fantastic actors in Japan but the ability to work with a Hollywood director on a foreign language film requires a particular set of skills - one of which is convincing people you can handle the role and the pressure. Japanese actors seem terribly unambitious. The only one I've seen actively soliciting a role in a Hollywood film recently is Norika Fujiwara who fancies herself as a Bond girl. When leading French actor Gerard Depardieu wanted bigger roles, he moved to the U.S. and tried furiously to learn English. Even Zhang Ziyi, who got her break in a Chinese film, has spent time and effort in the US. Yuki Kudoh got a similar, if less important, break in "Mystery Train" and has made the most of it. Very few Japanese actors have made the effort to get work in Hollywood. That's no bad thing if they don't like Hollywood but many of them often mention in interviews that they would like to be "considered" for a role in a big US production and the media in Japan always regard it as a great achievement when someone does get a role.

And yet almost no major actors have engaged a competent agent to represent them overseas or moved to the US to build a profile or built up their language and acting skills. Part of the problem is the treadmill of acting in Japan. If you have made it in any way as an actor, your workload is enormous. You would have to take a break from work in Japan to devote enough time to gain entry to the US film world and this looks, to most actors, like career suicide because once you're off the radar, you're out. Your promotion company would also throw a fit if you passed up work to live in the US. Sonny Chiba did and, for a long time, it looked like he'd made a huge mistake. The other problem is the Japanese media world's insularity. Few people realize the value of using US agents to represent them or their clients. And yet foreign businessmen are constantly told of the need for a Japanese partner, mentor or patron to help them navigate a particular industry's local challenges. The same is true in Hollywood

.
Zhangi Ziyi, Gong Li and Michelle Yeo have all featured in films produced by their local industry which have been marketed with success overseas. On top of that, all three have engaged Hollywood agents who have found them roles in US films where they have proved they can do the business. There are no Japanese equivalents.

The Japanese film industry, through parochialism, has lost out to Chinese, Hong Kong, Korean and Indian cinema of late. If Memoirs succeeds financially, no-one is going to shed a tear for Japanese actors. If it fails, I really don't think the producers will believe it could have been saved by using a mainly Japanese cast. Either way, Japan loses an opportunity.

[blackcat]

'The Japanese film industry, through parochialism, has lost out to Chinese, Hong Kong, Korean and Indian cinema of late."

Thats very true, The japanese entertainment industry as so protective of itself and limits or restricts itself in many ways, a very self indulgent attitude exists.