JapanInc to Koizumi: 'FORGET THAT YASUKUNI CRAP!'

[Taro Toporific]

My photo taken in front of Yasukuni Shrine

Japan's Kitashiro Urges Koizumi to End War Shrine Visits
Nov. 26 (Bloomberg) --Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi should stop visiting a shrine China say symbolizes Japan's militaristic past as it hurts business ties, Kakutaro Kitashiro, chairman of the Japan Association of Corporate Executives said.
``There is concern it will hurt business ties between China and Japan,'' Kitashiro said at a briefing on Tuesday, according to the business lobby's Web site.
....more....

[Taro Toporific]

Koizumi says to decide on future Yasukuni visit 'appropriately'
TOKYO, Dec. 2, Kyodo -Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi reiterated Thursday that he will decide whether to again visit Tokyo's war-related Yasukuni Shrine ''appropriately'' in view of strong protests from China....more...

[dimwit]

Koizumi says to decide on future Yasukuni visit 'appropriately'
TOKYO, Dec. 2, Kyodo -Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi reiterated Thursday that he will decide whether to again visit Tokyo's war-related Yasukuni Shrine ''appropriately'' in view of strong protests from China....more...

Yadda yadda yadda. So when is corporate Japan going to put their money where their months are and withhold funds from the LDP or HERE'S A THOUGHT back the opposition?

[Mulboyne]

Asahi: Yoshibumi Wakamiya: Yasukuni's war criminals: `martyrs'?
A fighter of the former Japanese navy is on display on the first floor of the Yushukan war memorial museum at Yasukuni Shrine in Tokyo. It is a Mitsubishi Zero-type shipboard fighter model 52, one of the Zero fighters. The plane can also be viewed from the outside through a glass wall. An explanation reads: "Its first campaign was in September in the 15th year of Showa (1940). In an air battle against Soviet-made Chinese war planes in Chongqing, China, it shot down most of the enemy planes with no damage on the Japanese side in an unprecedented victory. With its great combat capability and long flying range, it was the world's strongest fighter." I see. So the Zero made its debut in an air battle over Chongqing in 1940. The name rings a bell. The city in inland China was the venue of an Asia Cup soccer match between Japan and Jordan this summer. Chinese soccer fans booed the Japanese team and threw garbage at Japanese supporters.
... Koizumi...says the purpose of his visits is to mourn for soldiers who fought for their country and to pray for peace. With reference to Class-A war criminals, Koizumi told the Diet, "Why keep blaming the dead for the crimes they committed when they were alive? I don't think it befits Japanese thinking not to forgive people even after their death"' But Yasukuni Shrine gives a different explanation. According to "Yasukuni Daihyakka" (Yasukuni encyclopedia), a pamphlet published by the shrine, war criminals are people "who were cruelly executed because they were falsely accused as `war criminals' in a one-sided tribunal held in form only at the hands of the Allied Forces (the United States, Britain, the Netherlands, China and others) that fought against Japan.'' It calls them "Showa martyrs." The shrine stands by the belief that, to begin with, the war "had to be fought in order (for Japan) to prosper together with Asian countries."
...Perhaps it is inevitable that the purpose of the prime minister's visits is doubted. If so, properly speaking, the United States, which was the leading player in the Tokyo tribunal, is the one that should be raising objections to the prime minister's Yasukuni visits. In fact, although I have seen many Americans and Europeans raise their eyebrows at his Yasukuni visits, I have never heard stories about the U.S. government making a protest. On the contrary, U.S. President George W. Bush keeps on praising Koizumi and Japan...Bush may be inwardly gloating over the discord between Japan and China over the Yasukuni problem. Come to think of it, taking precautions against major Asian powers developing close ties with one another forms the basis of U.S. diplomacy.

[Mulboyne]

Kyodo via Yahoo: Koizumi will not visit Yasukuni Shrine during New Year period
Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi said Saturday he will not visit the war-linked Yasukuni Shrine in Tokyo during this year's New Year period. Asked whether he will refrain from visiting the shrine during the New Year season, he told reporters, "Yes." On New Year's Day in 2004, he visited the shrine, which enshrines convicted war criminals along with Japan's war dead.
...Koizumi has visited the shrine once every year since taking office in April 2001 -- on different dates, in an apparent attempt to limit the diplomatic fallout -- a move China has complained about repeatedly. Relations between Japan and China have soured partly due to Koizumi's visits to the shrine.

[Mulboyne]

There are a number of Yasukuni threads but Yoshibumi Wakamiya, chairman of the Asahi newspaper is quoted a couple of posts before so this one seems appropriate. The magazine Ronza (part of the Asahi group) published a discussion between Wakamiya and the Tsuneo Watanabe, chairman of the Yomiuri concerning the shrine. The Asahi/IHT English edition carries a translation. I was surprised to learn of Watanabe's apparent opposition to the shrine given the right wing nature of his paper's editorials. So far, you can only see the article in the print edition. Online, Wakamiya does write about the discussion in Japanese here. While it may appear later, here's a heavily-abridged taste of some of their comments. Bear in mind, again, Watanabe's reputation as a conservative and his paper's right wing editorials.

Watanabe: Ever since I was in university, I always argued against the war. In the last war, several million people died in the name of the emperor. I was drafted and made to work like a slave as a buck private...During the war, I truly felt that no nation should be allowed to do such things. Especially in the name of the emperor. I still cannot erase the hatred I felt towards the military leaders who gave such orders and to the politicians who overlooked such actions. In 2001, when Prime Minister Koizumi said he would visit Yasukuni Shrine on August 15, I called him and said "I'm opposed."

The Yushukan war memorial that stands next to the main hall at Yasukuni is wrong. That facility praises militarism and children who go through that memorial come out saying, "Japan actually won the last war." This means that Yasukuni Shrine operates a war museum that incites militarism and displays exhibits in praise of militarism. It is wrong for the prime minister to visit such a place...That led me to think about the need for a new war memorial.

...[The Yomiuri] started a campaign...to clarify where the responsibility for the war lies...we plan to set specific standards to decide the severity of moral responsibility for the results of the war and in that way say who is most responsible

Wakamiya: Although I believe there will be considerable overlap with those who went on trial as Class-A war criminals at the Tokyo war crimes trial...are you planning to clarify the responsibility of individuals who may not have been put on trial?

Watanabe: ...When thinking about moral responsibility for the war, Shigenori Togo, who was foreign minister at the start of the conflict, took action from an early stage to end it. There are doubts as to whether someone like that should be considered in the same vein as Class-A war criminals...A large number of people memorialized at Yasukuni were themselves victims. I think a distinction has to be made between those who did the killing and those who were killed...Once that historic examination has been clarified and we state where we believe responsibility lies, we can then address the issue of the kind of trouble that we caused China and South Korea. A soul-searching on our part that will satisfy them will be absolutely necessary.

...While my way of thinking may be in the minority right now, I believe it will gradually become the majority opinion...The standards used in determining (what constitutes) war criminals are also important. I believe that...we have to look at everything from about the time of the Manchurian Incident...Kanji Ishihara...a high-ranking officer in the Kwangtung Army...was involved in illegal acts. Therefore, he cannot be forgiven, even though he argued against an expansion of the war.

Wakamiya: Kanji Ishihara was not included among the Class-A war criminals, strange as that may be.

Watanabe: That's right. He was not considered a war criminal. But we have to think about his responsibility. An even worse case is an even higher-ranking officer, Seishiro Itagaki, who engineered the invasion of northern China. After that. as the nation proceeded toward the Pacific War, I believe that Fumimaro Konoe, who was prime minister, was up to no good...He should have tried to normalize the political situation but ended up creating the Imperial Rule Assistance Association...Furthermore, it was Koicho Kido...who recommended that Tojo become prime minister..I believe Kido bears a very grave responsibility.

Unless the Japanese themselves admit that crimes were committed, before recognizing the arguments of East Asian nations that were victims of invasion during the war, there is no way those nations will be convinced...I am 79 years old. When we are gone, there will b enobody who remembers the realities of that war...I worry that there will only be debate on ideas about it rather than experiences.

Wakamiya: Japan's relations with China have fallen into a vicious cycle. For instance, the figure that China gives for deaths in the Nanking Massacre keeps growing...I must question the 300,000 number.

Watanabe: The figure 300,000 was not physically possible given the performance level of weapons at the time. Still, there is no question that it was a massacre, regardless of the number of victims, whether it was 3,000, 30,000 or 300,000.

Wakamiya: I don't think Koizumi is a rightist...I don't really doubt that he goes to the shrine to honour the spirits of the 3 million Japanese soldiers and to pray for peace...The problem is that [his] visits give joy and strength to people who think Class-A war criminals are not bad.

Watanabe: The prime minister has paid visits to a shrine whose priests believe the Class-A war criminals were falsely accused..If he continues to do so there is a danger of the young...also thinking [they] were indeed falsely accused...I see the need to sever the negative chain..and for Japan to re-examine its history of military aggression to establish the understanding that the war in question was indeed a war of aggression.

...I think Japan's Asia policy will be destroyed for good if Koizumi's successor is someone who supports prime ministers making official visits to Yasukuni.

[Mulboyne]

The article is up on the Asahi site now:

Yomiuri, Asahi editorial chiefs call for a national memorial

[Mulboyne]

[jingai]

That this Yomiuri magnate did an about-face and is concerned about the rightists going too far is very interesting and newsworthy. I wonder how he could believe that the movement he helped support would stop at making Japan a "normal nation" and not go further towards virulent nationalism.

[Mulboyne]

The Asahi's Wakamiya follows up on the Ronza interview:

Yomiuri chief applying the brakes

Without meaning to brag, the February issue of The Asahi Shimbun's monthly magazine Ronza that went on sale in the New Year sold like hot cakes...In an editorial in June last year, The Yomiuri Shimbun opposed the prime minister's Yasukuni visits. But Watanabe's words were much more clear-cut and straightforward than the Yomiuri editorial. The discussion became so lively that it even led me to joke, "I don't know which one of us represents The Asahi Shimbun"... Watanabe, who will turn 80 this year, is the chairman of the Yomiuri group and holds sway with conservative political circles. Who would have thought he would join hands with The Asahi Shimbun over the Yasukuni problem? That is probably all the more why the article had major repercussions. The piece was not only reported by various domestic media but was also given wide coverage in China and South Korea under such headlines as "Two major Japanese newspapers..." and "Chairman Watanabe of the conservative newspaper Yomiuri also... ." I also received e-mails from various prominent U.S. scholars well versed in Japanese affairs, including professors Gerald Curtis of Columbia University and Richard Samuels of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, both of whom expressed surprise. They made comments to the following effect: Watanabe is a conservative but he is typical of a generation that holds a strong antipathy toward past militarism. What is worrisome is that young conservatives may not have such physiological aversion...more...

[Greji]

That this Yomiuri magnate did an about-face and is concerned about the rightists going too far is very interesting and newsworthy. I wonder how he could believe that the movement he helped support would stop at making Japan a "normal nation" and not go further towards virulent nationalism.

It is probably more interesting if he really did do an about-face. He is known for shooting from the hip and saying what ever he things will fly at that moment.

By the way, in Watanabe's case, you mis-spelled Yomiuri magnate. It is properly spelled Maggot!

[Mulboyne]

[Mulboyne]

[Jack]

Koizumi and every other Japanese Prime Minister should visit wherever they want as they please. The heck with foreigners, especially Chinese, telling Japan how to behave. Yasukuni symbolises Japan's war dead and it's only appropriate that a Prime Minister pays his respect there as required. If Chinese sensibilities are being hurt, then so be it. That's just an excuse to flare-up past feelings. China would do well to turn the page on this one.

[Buraku]

From a military stand point China could do well to increase the anti-Japan spices, GW's military is either weak from the middle east or just not prepared to baby-sit Asia no more and GW has already done a U-turn on the Taiwan issue and Chinese are growing stronger than they ever were.







that's a nice card China could play !


and a load of other Asians are sick of Nippon
Japan did some nasty shit and folks like gov-Blinky who call foreign people animals isn't helping - Taiwanese sex slaves, death squads in Burma, cruel acts in Indonesia, imperial nazi Japanese crimes in Vietnam, and don't forget to mention our Korean pals


new manga 'our Korean cannibals', from the J-people who bought up all those Little Black Sambo books

[mr. sparkle]

Forgive this naive question.
Why does he do it? Because of obligation to the party?

[Buraku]

Why does he do it?

One reason Koizumi might be doing the Yasukuni shit is to win votes from the people who elected Ishihara and he does it because there is zero middle ground in J-politics.

The opposition political groups in Nippon are either too liberal-socialist ( Kim fans ) or too green-leftist and not many people vote for them

the other groups in Nippon are far-right-Uyoku groups
and the LDP/Jiminto which would be a rightwing conservative party which has controlled Japan for 50 years

[homesweethome]

Also don't forget that both successor candidates to Koizumi's job have come out very publicly saying "China Is The Threat" "China Has Nukes" "China is The Devil...etc."
bad bad China

If there was no audience for this sort of nationalist garbabe rhetoric, they wouldn't say it and Koizumi wouldn't go to Yasukuni. In fact I would guess privately he hates having to go there and look at all that. He does it cause the Ishihara faction makes him do it. He has no choice.

[Jack]

Forgive this naive question.
Why does he do it? Because of obligation to the party?

Yes, that is indeed very naive. There are millions of Japanese soldiers' souls there, that's why he visits. The Prime Minister of a country has the right to visit wherever he wishes.

By the way, is there anything that you fuckers living in Japan like about that place? I haven't read a single positive thing about Japan or japanese people on this forum in years.

The countries where you guys come from all all substantially inferior to Japan and yet you find ways of elevating yourselves while lowering Japan. Fuck I hate them White bastards.

[GomiGirl]

By the way, is there anything that you fuckers living in Japan like about that place? I haven't read a single positive thing about Japan or japanese people on this forum in years. .

Well one positive thing is that you don't live here!!! That makes me very happy.

[mr. sparkle]

Yes, that is indeed very naive. There are millions of Japanese soldiers' souls there, that's why he visits.

So...he's afraid of GHOSTS? ZOIKS! Scooby Doo! Where are YOU?

I like Watanabe's idea. Have a wholly new shrine for the war dead that DOES NOT include executed Class A war criminals like Hideki Tojo, Itagaki Seishiro, Heitaro Kimura, Kenji Doihara, Iwane Matsui, Akira Muto, and Koki Hirota]If there was no audience for this sort of nationalist garbabe rhetoric, they wouldn't say it and Koizumi wouldn't go to Yasukuni. In fact I would guess privately he hates having to go there and look at all that. He does it cause the Ishihara faction makes him do it. He has no choice.[/quote]
Now that brings it into clearer focus. Thanks!

[Taro Toporific]

Records show Emperor Showa was displeased by war criminals'
2006 July 20, Mainichi Daily News

[Mulboyne]

...It has been widely known that Emperor Showa, father of Emperor Akihito, had not paid a visit to the shrine since Class-A war criminals were enshrined in 1978, but the reason why had not been disclosed...

The reason he stopped visiting may have not been officially disclosed but it was widely known; Watanabe of the Yomiuri mentioned it in an interview linked to earlier in this thread. That makes it more interesting to wonder why this memo is being revealed now. It looks like the lobbying for an alternative war shrine is picking up some momentum.

[Mulboyne]

[Taro Toporific]

Polls: Japanese oppose shrine trip
CNN - July 24
TOKYO, Japan (AP) -- More than half of Japanese don't want their next prime minister to visit a Tokyo war shrine at the center of a diplomatic row with China ...more...

[Greji]

This is the actually diary entry that Tomita made. Sorry but it's in Japanese. For some reason, the Grand Chamberlain apparantly did not take his notes in short hand, or eigo!


(courtesy of the frog)

[Mulboyne]

Mainichi: War dead organization to consider separating war criminals at Yasukuni shrine

An organization of bereaved families of war dead is considering separating Class-A war criminals from the other war dead enshrined at the controversial Yasukuni shrine in Tokyo, organization officials said. Former ruling Liberal Democratic Party (LDP) Secretary-General Makoto Koga, who heads the organization, Nippon Izokukai, is poised to propose that it set up a panel to discuss the matter. Other executives are expected to support the idea, the officials said. Even though shrine officials have repeatedly ruled out the possibility of separating Class-A war criminals from the other war dead, it will inevitably come under pressure to do so now the organization is prepared to discuss the matter.

Nippon Izokukai had been strongly opposed to separating Class-A war criminals from the other war dead. Koga proposed in late May that the organization should consider the matter, only to draw protest from numerous members. However, a note showing that the late Emperor Showa had expressed displeasure at the enshrinement of Class-A war criminals at Yasukuni shrine has recently been disclosed, creating a stir among its members. Following the discovery of the note taken by a former aide to the Emperor Showa, a growing number of the Nippon Izokukai board members are leaning toward supporting discussions on the matter.

Its three vice presidents, who had previously opposed a separation, have voiced support for Koga's proposal to set up a panel to consider the matter. China and South Korea, both victims of Japan's wartime atrocities, have bitterly criticized Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi for visiting the shrine because Class-A war criminals have been enshrined there.

[Mulboyne]

It seems Tojo didn't believe he was entitled to be enshrined at Yasukuni:

http://home.kyodo.co.jp/modules/fstStory/index.php?storyid=263907

[Taro Toporific]

It seems Tojo didn't believe he was entitled to be enshrined at Yasukuni:
http://home.kyodo.co.jp/modules/fstStory/index.php?storyid=263907

Neither does Taro Asshole either now.
[INDENT][floatr][/floatr]
Aso plans change to shrine's status
AP , TOKYO
Sunday, Aug 06, 2006,Page 1
Japan's foreign minister plans to ask that a Tokyo war shrine surrender its religious status so the government can end the deification of top war criminals there...
<snip>
....Aso apparently wants to distance himself from Abe's stance on the shrine and show his eagerness to resolve the diplomatic row with China and South Korea, the Mainichi said.
Aso has said he would not visit Yasukuni if he becomes prime minister.

[/INDENT]

[Mulboyne]

Aso wants to nationalize the nationalists.

Yahoo: Japan's Aso wants state to run Yasukuni war shrine

Foreign Minister Taro Aso, a dark horse candidate to become Japan's next prime minister, proposed on Tuesday making the Yasukuni Shrine for Japanese war dead, now at the heart of a regional diplomatic feud, a secular, state-run memorial that the emperor could visit...Aso, known as a diplomatic hawk who has offended China and South Korea with remarks in the past, said his plan was not aimed at mollifying foreign countries. Instead, he hopes to resolve a domestic debate that flares up whenever a Japanese leader visits the shrine and has prevented the emperor from going there since 14 "Class A" war criminals were added to the lists of those honored at the shrine in 1978. "It's about expressing our respect and gratitude for those who died for their country and praying for the peace of the souls of those who died...without all this fuss," Aso told a news conference...Aso's proposal -- which is premised on Yasukuni voluntarily abandoning its religious status -- could clear the way to remove the war criminals, including wartime prime minister Hideki Tojo, from the lists of those honored there...more...