SLR camera users NEED YOUR HELP.

[fatslug]

I know there a few SLR users here, so need your help.

Ive only recently gotten into taken pics of water/ waterfalls and stuff like that. I want to take shots so the water looks smooth and silky. Of course I set the shutter speed to about 2 - 10 seconds, but what else must i change so that the picture is not over exposed as in too much light ? At the moment, my pictures are simply bright white.

thanks alot -

[Ketou]

I know there a few SLR users here, so need your help.

Ive only recently gotten into taken pics of water/ waterfalls and stuff like that. I want to take shots so the water looks smooth and silky. Of course I set the shutter speed to about 2 - 10 seconds, but what else must i change so that the picture is not over exposed as in too much light ? At the moment, my pictures are simply bright white.

thanks alot -

You will obviously need to change your aperture up as high as it will go. The less amount of light getting in the better. 27 or whatever depending on your lens.
If you are running fully manual then a bit of metering will help you get an idea of what shutter speed to what aperture. Running the camera in Av mode and setting your aperture up as high as it will go is another option. Otherwise, assuming you are using film, take a roll of photos and keep a record of each different aperture and shutter speed and find out what works.
I also find that using the lowest iso colour reversal film available gives the best results for long exposure waterfall shots.

[blackcat]

fatslug
There is a relationship between shutter speed and aperture, the shutter speed controls the movement of the scene and the aperture controls the depth of field, or amount/area of sharness or focus.

both control how much light enters the camera and therefore onto the film.

for example 60/f8 is the same amount of light as 125/f4 the shutter speed is slower in 60/8 by twice therefore letting twice as much light onto the film, this is compensated by the aperture of f4 letting twice the amount of light in...(aperture: smaller numbers means more light) but then again is changed by the faster shutter... speed twice as fast. 60-125 1stop, f8-f4 1 stop

so if you use 60/f4 that is 1 stop more light than 60/f8

the key shutter speeds and apertures to remember are

8/30/60/125/250/500/1000 all are increments of 1 stop

f 2.8/4/5.6/8/11/16/22 again 1 stop, smaller # = more light.

when you photograph water you must remember water reflects light and daylight is white light! if you a very slow shutter speed and wide aperture it would need to be a very dark place, so look at the cameras light meter, should be one in the viewfinder. In manual setting it will give you an idea of what settings to use, it all depends on how much ambient light there is, the film speed(ISO) you are using and then your settings, write down what your settings are so you learn the cause and effect...btw, what camera is it?

[fatslug]

...btw, what camera is it?

thanks alot both of you for the info.

The camera is a Pentax *ist 35mm film, though thinkin bout getting the Nikon D-50.

[omae mona]

I know there a few SLR users here, so need your help.
Ive only recently gotten into taken pics of water/ waterfalls and stuff like that. I want to take shots so the water looks smooth and silky. Of course I set the shutter speed to about 2 - 10 seconds, but what else must i change so that the picture is not over exposed as in too much light ? At the moment, my pictures are simply bright white.
thanks alot -

You are making life too hard for yourself. My answer is "stop shooting in manual mode!". The auto-exposure modes on your camera will capture the proper exposure if nothing's broken. Use "shutter priority mode". This is labeled as Tv on Canon cameras, and I think it might be "S" on Nikons. Set your shutter to your desired speed (2 to 10 seconds), and the camera will automatically calculate the correct aperture to get a proper exposure.

If you still get blown out pictures, there are several possible reasons.

• You have the exposure compensation setting cranked up by accident.
• Due to a combination of a bright scene and high ISO film, you may be exceeding your lens's narrowest aperture. If you see the aperture calculated as say f/32 you might be in trouble (probably your camera has some other warning indicator, too). Solutions: lower ISO film, faster shutter speed, or a filter in front of your lens.
• Your camera's ISO setting doesn't match the film that's actually in the camera.
• Your camera or lens are broken.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[FG Lurker]

for example 60/f8 is the same amount of light as 125/f4 the shutter speed is slower in 60/8 by twice therefore letting twice as much light onto the film, this is compensated by the aperture of f4 letting twice the amount of light in...(aperture: smaller numbers means more light) but then again is changed by the faster shutter... speed twice as fast. 60-125 1stop, f8-f4 1 stop

so if you use 60/f4 that is 1 stop more light than 60/f8

This would be fine except that F4 is two stops faster than F8. ]

A couple of other things to keep in mind:
1) Use a tripod and a cable release.
2) Use low ISO settings or low ISO film. ISO100 on a DSLR and ISO50 or 100 film.

Kodak also has a page with some waterfall ideas. They also make a very good pocket guide that I think you will find helpful. The technical data is out of date, but it covers all the basic settings for most types of photos -- waterfalls included. It's called the "KODAK Pocket Guide To 35MM Photography" and the ISBN is 0879857692. You can get it on Amazon in the US or Japan. Just paste the ISBN number into the search field. I see they also have a digital version but I have never looked inside it.

If you have any other questions (night photography, fireworks, etc) feel free to ask.

Hope this has helped a bit.

[FG Lurker]

thanks alot both of you for the info.

The camera is a Pentax *ist 35mm film, though thinkin bout getting the Nikon D-50.

Pick up a used D70. I got one for 46,000 in pristine condition from a shop here in Osaka. Unbelievable amount of camera for the price. Very, very nice.

I also have a Canon 20D which is still my main camera -- too much Canon glass to change to Nikon, but for 46,000yen I grabbed the Nikon just to see what it was like.

If you do pick up a Nikon body then I would get the 18-70 kit lens and a 50/1.8D lens to start with. The 18-70 kit is an excellent value and a good overall lens (unless you want to examine pixels at 200% and look for faults), and the 50/1.8 is unbeatable for its price. What to get beyond that really depends on what sort of photos you want. If you have lens questions I am sure we will all have lots of conflicting advice.

[omae mona]

As blackcat mentioned already, waterfalls tend to reflect a lot of light. This will probably confuse your in-camera meter so you are going to have to compensate for it manually.

FGL - just out of curiosity, why do you think this would confuse a camera's meter?

If the waterfall is reasonably well lit then take a reading off of something near the water. Rocks, trees, grass... Remember that your meter probably does not "see" colour, but instead assumes that everything is a light grey colour -- 20% grey. If you read off of something that is very light coloured then you will get over-exposed images. If you read off of something that is very dark then your images will be too dark. Keep this in mind and it will help you adjust things.

If you don't think your camera's evaluative/matrix metering is going to nail the exposure, then you can certainly take more control as FGL is suggesting. I think the most accurate & safe thing to do would be spot metering off the white parts of the waterfall - the brightest part of the picture. Turn on spot metering, set exposure compensation to +1 2/3 stops or maybe 2 stops (so the white comes out as white, not grey), make sure the white is at the center of the frame when you lock exposure, then recompose and take the picture.

Also, fatslug: I have a hunch that overall the problem is you're doing too much manually. I don't think the camera's default automatic settings would result in the type of blown out exposures you're seeing. Trust your camera a bit more and use the automatic settings, and then make adjustments (like exposure compensation with spot metering) when you want to fine tune the results.

[jingai]

Quote: FGL - just out of curiosity, why do you think this would confuse a camera's meter?

Depends on the camera, but a center-weighted meter would think that the bright reflection-dominated scene was 50% grey and would significantly underexpose (like a snow scene). A hand-held incident meter wouldn't have this problem, and increasing exposure compensation as you describe also gets you past this problem. Of course, you knew this already as your reponse indicates.

[Charles]

What you need is a "neutral density filter." It's a dark, neutral colored filter that goes over your lens, it effectively reduces the exposure beyond anything you can get with your smallest f stop. I used to have an 8-stop neutral density filter, it reduced the exposure by 8 f stops. It was perfect for doing the blurred-waterfall effect you are seeking. I mostly used it for doing architectural pictures at night, I'd dress in black, set my Hasselblad shutter open, then walk into the scene with a big handheld flash and blast the flash over and over on just the areas of the scene I wanted to light up.

[FG Lurker]

FGL - just out of curiosity, why do you think this would confuse a camera's meter?

It depends totally on the scene and the type of meter that is in his camera. Most cameras will have troubles correctly metering an extremely bright or extremely dark scene. If the waterfall that fatslug is trying to photograph is neither extremely bright (direct sun hitting the water) nor extremely dark (in a heavily wooded area with little light) then the camera meter will probably give a reasonable photograph.

I agree that fatslug is probably doing too much manually. However for photos like waterfalls you do need to at least set the shutter speed if you want to get the soft blurred water. Ideally he should set his shutter speed to around 3 seconds and then see what the camera wants to set as an aperture. He can then set the exposure compensation depending on how his spot meter readings came out. If the scene is extremely bright though he may need more than the 2-3 stops that most cameras let you adjust for... Then it's back to full manual mode...

fatslug, the easiest thing you can do is pick up a digital SLR. The feedback is immediate and if used properly it is a fantastic learning accelerator.

[Ketou]

Yea, I used to take exposures with even around 15 seconds to get a real fluffy feel to the water.

EDIT: Of course this was in more shaded areas of flowing water.

[blackcat]

"This would be fine except that F4 is two stops faster than F8."

yeah thats right.. sorry typo

[fatslug]

fatslug, the easiest thing you can do is pick up a digital SLR. The feedback is immediate and if used properly it is a fantastic learning accelerator.

thanks again to everyone with the info. very very helpful.

Yes I will pick up a digital SLR this week sometime - decided on the D-50 as i dont think I need anymore that that in terms of functions are concerned.

[fatslug]

[quote="FG Lurker"] If you do pick up a Nikon body then I would get the 18-70 kit lens and a 50/1.8D lens to start with. The 18-70 kit is an excellent value and a good overall lens (unless you want to examine pixels at 200% and look for faults), and the 50/1.8 is unbeatable for its price. What to get beyond that really depends on what sort of photos you want. If you have lens questions I am sure we will all have lots of conflicting advice. ]

what u think about the Nikkor 18-200mm ?
Ive read only great reviews about it on forums, though of course its rather pricey $$$$.

what lens/es do u have with your d-70 ?

[omae mona]

Quote: FGL - just out of curiosity, why do you think this would confuse a camera's meter?

Depends on the camera, but a center-weighted meter would think that the bright reflection-dominated scene was 50% grey and would significantly underexpose (like a snow scene). A hand-held incident meter wouldn't have this problem, and increasing exposure compensation as you describe also gets you past this problem. Of course, you knew this already as your reponse indicates.

Got it. I think we just had confusion about lingo, not end results. I read "confuse" as meaning a malfunction of some kind. In my mind, the camera's reflected light meter & various metering modes are just a tool, and exposure is a creative choice. You have to choose how to use the meter versus your scene in order to get the exposure you want. The camera's meter can't possibly know how bright the scene really is, so you have to give it some help, and simultaneously make a decision about how bright you want your photo. You are exactly right about what would happen with a center-weighted metering scheme on a bright waterfall, with no exposure compensation.

[fatslug]

Every place in Tokyo has sold out the Nikkor VR 18-200mm lens !

Theres a 2 month waiting list !!

Fuck fuck fuck . never new a lens could be that popular !

[FG Lurker]

what u think about the Nikkor 18-200mm ?
Ive read only great reviews about it on forums, though of course its rather pricey $$$$.

It is a good lens for a super-zoom. Lenses with such large ranges (11x in this case) are very difficult to make well. The 18-200/VR is reasonably good throughout its range but tends to get soft at the long end. It is also 5.6 at the long end, not very useful unless you have very good light.

what lens/es do u have with your d-70 ?

I have access to some long Nikkor lenses (300/2.8, 400/2.8 etc), which was one reason I bought the D70. When I bought it though I picked up the 18-70mm kit zoom (a good basic zoom for the price) and a 50mm/1.8D, a lens that for the price every DSLR owner should get. Most of my glass is Canon for use with my 20D.

[FG Lurker]

Every place in Tokyo has sold out the Nikkor VR 18-200mm lens !

Theres a 2 month waiting list !!

Fuck fuck fuck . never new a lens could be that popular !

This is unfortunately one of Nikon's bad habbits. They tend to annouce products before they are really able to meet the demand. The D200 is still in short supply (or was a month ago), even though it was announced last year!

[Greji]

-snip- pictures at night, I'd dress in black, set my Hasselblad shutter open, then walk into the scene with a big handheld flash and blast the flash over and over on just the areas of the scene I wanted to light up.

Could that work on parked cars in lover's lane?