What are you supposed to say?

[CrankyBastard]

I was walking the dog in the park this morning, a guy comes up to me and asks, "Do you speak Japanese?"
I answer, "Passable Japanese."
He says, "Cute dog. What's it's name?"
"I don't know," I answer, "But we call her C."
Then out of the blue this guy tells me his wife died last month.
I was a bit at a loss for words and just muttered "Oh, zannen."
What the hell should one say?
I mean the guy's a complete stranger.
Anyway it's been on my mind all day.

[gomichild]

Sometimes when you are suffering from the grief of losing someone close, you blurt it out to anyone. Maybe he just needed to reach out to someone, anyone at that time and you were around.

You did OK. Really there wasn't anything else you could do. You connected with him on a human level and that's all he needed.

[Taro Toporific]

I...
What the hell should one say?
I mean the guy's a complete stranger.
Anyway it's been on my mind all day.

You did just fine. Japanese don't expect a gaijin to have "perfect" reply. In situations like this, they are only listening to the tone of voice and body language. The grieving Japanese person looks they need more---throw 'em curve-ball like crossing yourself and mumbling or a Baruch. They'll be remarkably impressed by such an "exotic" condolence if sincere.

[Greji]

Anyway it's been on my mind all day.

Crank, you of course remember most of the J-crowd are buddhist and the shock of an early death is of course the same to pretty much all, but after the initial shock wears off, it's back to the buddhist goal of death deciding what is to happens next in the cycle i.e. on to Nirvana, or comi1
ng back as an erimaki tokage (which is probably my destination).

So when death has reached this stage it is no longer viewed as the overly sad event we see it in the West. In fact, his wife is due to actually depart their residence in the very immediate future. The famous 49th day, which is the day her spirit will depart the area of their house for parts unknown. The spirit remains from death to the 49th day in the house usually in an area somewhere between the roof and the ceiling (depending on the obosan. They apparently can place the spirit where ever they need it).

At any rate, it would not be unusual for him to begin discussing her at this time in the cycle as she would be in the forefront of his thoughts as she nears her forthcoming "journey" (plus, he just might be lonely)!

So he may not be discussing it because he is sad or wants to make you or anyone else sad. He may well see it as a happy occasion for her!

Then again, he just might be a drunk!

[capsule]

I was walking the dog in the park this morning, a guy comes up to me and asks, "Do you speak Japanese?"
I answer, "Passable Japanese."
He says, "Cute dog. What's it's name?"
"I don't know," I answer, "But we call her C."
Then out of the blue this guy tells me his wife died last month.
I was a bit at a loss for words and just muttered "Oh, zannen."
What the hell should one say?
I mean the guy's a complete stranger.
Anyway it's been on my mind all day.

What more could you do. That's the best anyone could do really. As previous posters have said, he was just reaching out and probably not in his normal state. Saying a few kind words and wishing him well is a kind thing. You could even say a prayer for him and his family.

[Charles]

[jingai]

"I don't know," I answer, "But we call her C."

Are you sure you said this right and it didn't sound like you said the dog died?

[CrankyBastard]

[kurohinge1]

This reminded me that learning the Japanese expressions for giving your condolences is on my (long) list of things to do before my own bones are being picked at with chopsticks, so I dug up a few expressions via the amazon description of A Handbook of Common Japanese Phrases:

Please accept my condolences on this sad occasion

-- Kono tabi wa goshushosama de gozaimasu.
-- Sazo ochikara-otoshi no koto to zonjimasu.
-- Kokoro kara okuyami moshiagemasu.
-- Goreizen ni osonae kudasai.
-- Oisogashii naka o, sassoku okuyami o itadakimashite arigato gozaimasu.

I have (1) nihongo class tonight, then the (2) nomikai that inevitably follows, on the way home to the (3) J-wife, so I'll try and remember to ask the natives (at least at one of those 3 locations) which of the above expressions are more acceptable.

Maybe we can do a poll via other FG's asking their J-partners &/or J-friends?

[CrankyBastard]

Actually, I mentioned it to my wife at dinner last night and she said 'zannen' used under the circumstances was good enough.
My daughter chimed in with, "If you meet him again, Dad for gods sakes don't ask him if his wife is still dead!"
My daughter knows me well.

[kurogane]

[Choan]

-- Oisogashii naka o, sassoku okuyami o itadakimashite arigato gozaimasu.

Would this not be what you say to thank someone who has expressed their condolences to YOU??

[kurogane]

-- Oisogashii naka o, sassoku okuyami o itadakimashite arigato gozaimasu.

Would this not be what you say to thank someone who has expressed their condolences to YOU??

Yes. That must have been a model conversation.

I cannot figure out for the life of me how anyone can follow Japanese in romaji.

It makes my mouth turn to mush.

[dimwit]

This sort of reminds me of a story of a teacher who was doing a trial lesson but not really paying much attention to what the studentwas saying. When the the teacher asked the student how he was doing, the student replied that his mother had just died, too which thed teacher responded 'That's nice. So tell me about your hobbies.'

[kurohinge1]

OK, one Nihongo class (and 2 pints) later, I'll share what I was told.

Oisogashii naka o, sassoku okuyami o itadakimashite arigato gozaimasu.

Would this not be what you say to thank someone who has expressed their condolences to YOU??

Yes, well spotted Choan-san.

And "Goreizen ni osonae kudasai" is apparently more appropriate when actually giving something tangible - eg: "condolence money" or flowers, etc.

"Sazo ochikara-otoshi no koto to zonjimasu." is apparently more of a written-style (eg: by letter / email).

"Kono tabi wa goshushosama de gozaimasu." is the common expression you use to greet the family/relatives when you're attending a funeral.

"(Kokoro kara) okuyami moshiagemasu." is a good all-rounder (eg: during a conversation) and should be taken well.

But our teacher actually preferred himself to use an expression such as "o ki no doku ni" or "o ki no doku desu ne" when speaking to someone.

Well, I was going to say that I hope someone can find these useful, but I guess it would be nicer if none of us have to use them anytime soon.

[kurogane]

[quote="kurohinge1"]OK, one Nihongo class (and 2 pints) later, I'll share what I was told.



Yes, well spotted Choan-san.

And "Goreizen ni osonae kudasai" is apparently more appropriate when actually giving something tangible - eg: "condolence money" or flowers, etc.

"Sazo ochikara-otoshi no koto to zonjimasu." is apparently more of a written-style (eg: by letter / email).

"Kono tabi wa goshushosama de gozaimasu." is the common expression you use to greet the family/relatives when you're attending a funeral.

"(Kokoro kara) okuyami moshiagemasu." is a good all-rounder (eg: during a conversation) and should be taken well.

But our teacher actually preferred himself to use an expression such as "o ki no doku ni" or "o ki no doku desu ne" when speaking to someone.

Well, I was going to say that I hope someone can find these useful, but I guess it would be nicer if none of us have to use them anytime soon.

]

Good post.

Your teacher has a good point. Okuyami would imply a social relation that doesn't exist in the case here.

oki no doku is the most formal way of saying "Oh, that is a shame". Interestingly, it is an old phrase used to respond to an unsolicited kindness.

I agree on the bit about hoping to not have to use it, but, Be Prepared, eh!?

Anyhoo...................

[Greji]

oki no doku is the most formal way of saying "Oh, that is a shame". Interestingly, it is an old phrase used to respond to an unsolicited kindness.

Another method that I have seen frequently used in my office, which is a rather large office in numbers and being a J-place, we are all "family members" and expected to meet and greet each other as relatives (whether we know the asshole we are talking to, or not), is to simply say "Taihen desu ne!" and then let the beraved soul tell you all about what happen to his wife who was run over by the shinkansen leaving a Shibuya love hotel, or whatever.

I had learned all the fancy ways to say condolences, committed them to memory and sat back just waiting for someone to die so I could shine in my Japaneseyness. What I found instead was that you don't have the that much of a chance to use these terms in the work area, or for that matter, at any other place accept if you are visiting the family at home immediately after the death (for a very, close aquaintance, or possibly a very, very brief goshusousama (not gochisou sama, which is very simple for FGs to mistakenly do) at the wake.

Normally, by the time you have a chance to actually be able to speak to the colleague or friend, it is sometime afterward and again, it comes down to something like "Taihen deshita ne" and sitting back to listen to all the varied stories that will come in reply to that!