Housing Contract Renewal... 'Gift'

[GuyJean]

I searched but couldn't find anything specific..

My two year contract is ending on my 'mansion'.. I'm planning to continue living here and signing another contract, but the landlord wants to charge one month rent for another contract signing..

Am I required to pay?
Is this legal?

Any insight/experience is appreciated.. I've heard people fighting this and winning, but I'm cloudy on the specifics.. I dont' feel like taking the 'shouganai' shaft up my ass lying down..

Thanks!

GJ

[cstaylor]

What is that, "re-key money"?

[Iraira]

Sadly this is normal. While it may be too late this time, I have greased my landlord with numerous omiyage/gifts and the last time I had to renew the lease, he didn't ask for any "re-thanks" money. He was pretty sauced at the time, which might've helped. Dude likes California wines, so it's worth the trip to the supermarket when I'm back in LA.

[GuyJean]

What is that, "re-key money"?

I don't know.. But it pisses my shit off.. Reminds me of Joe Pesci's 'They fuck you with the cell phones!' speech:
http://www.wavsite.com/sounds/27075/leth4-26.wav

'They fuck you at the drive-thru':
http://henancius.martin-scorsese.net/sounds/lethal2/dri_thru.wav

'They fuck you at the hospital':
http://henancius.martin-scorsese.net/sounds/lethal3/fkhosp.wav

Other great Pesci quotes:

From Lethal Weapon
"They fuck you at the hospital, first they drug you then they fuck you, and when they are done fucking you along comes the insurance company and fucks you some more. Ten dollars for a fucking aspirin."

From Goodfellas
"What do ya mean, funny? Let me understand this cause, I don't know maybe it's me, I'm a little fucked up maybe, but I'm funny how? I mean, funny like I'm a clown, I amuse you? I make you laugh... I'm here to fuckin' amuse you? What do you mean funny, funny how? How am I funny?"

"What am I, a mirage? What? Where's my fuckin' drink? I asked you for a drink... I just asked you for a fuckin' drink."

"You know you're a fuckin' mumbling stuttering little fuck, you know that?"
"Oklahoma Kid. That's me, I'm the Oklahoma Kid. You fuckin' varmint! Dance... dance! Yahoo, you motherfucker!"

"I am all right, you ain't no right, you little fuckin' prick."

"Hey Spider, that fuckin' bandage on your foot is bigger than your fuckin' head, you know that?"

"Who the fuck cares? I'll dig the fuckin' hole, I don't give a fuck! What is it, the first hole I dug? First time I dug a hole, I'll dig a fuckin' hole. Well, where are the shovels?" - http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Joe_Pesci

My sentiments exactly... ]http://henancius.martin-scorsese.net/sounds/lethal4/aft.wav[/url]
(Pesci) Ok, you did say "aft".
(Glover) A-F-T... Aft!
(Pesci) That's a fuckin' word.
(Glover) In the back of the cabin, on the right side, Leo!
(Pesci) Why didn't you say that to begin with, Roger? I love this people who get around boats and water. All of a sudden, everything becomes fuckin' nautical! Astern, avask, you land-lubbers! Man the bilge pump. Pump your fuckin' ass!
(Glover) All right, all right, Leo! All right, all right...
(Pesci) Ok, ok, ok, ok, ok... no problem, no problem, ok, ok...

http://henancius.martin-scorsese.net/sounds/lethal4/perp.wav
(Pesci) Hey ha... hey Riggs, who is the ha... perp? What you busted him for?
(Rock) Oh, I'm a perp? Oh, you see a young brother in the back of a police car automatically I'm a perp?? Look at my suit! Look at my tie! What do I look like, the fuckin' Crips' accountant? Look at this badge, bitch. Check out the gun! License, registration...
(Pesci) Ok, ok, hey, hey, ok! Put the gun down, put the gun down!...
(Rock) License, registration, urine sample!
(Pesci) Hey, I got a badge too, ok? German Jews didn't have it any easier. So, don't think you're the only one, ok, ok?

[Mike Oxlong]

I understand it's a standard item included in rental contracts, to encourage turnover. Most folks (not only you) get pissed off at having to pay again just to stay in the same place. They move. Landlord/owner get to keep your "refundable" original deposit, then some new dupe comes in and plunks down 2-4 months deposit, and the cycle continues. Rat bastards!

[Captain Japan]

Am I required to pay?
Is this legal?

This is an extension of the lease. It is standard and I'd be willing to bet that it is in your contract. Sometimes it is as high as 1.5 months.

If you have the original flyer for the place I'm sure it is listed in there right next to the 2 months for the key money nonsense and the deposit.

[homesweethome]

Since nobody really answered your question I will.

No you are not required to pay a 'gift' to the landlord at the end of your contract. It has nothing to do with what the origional flyer said or what somebody had written in some window. What matters is your contract to some degree. Do you have an option for renewal? What does your contract say? By default ALL rental contracts are renewable unless otherwise stated. Is that what your's says? Even if it is in the contract that you have to pay a renewal fee, it may not apply as rental laws state otherwise and take presidence over contract agreements in court.

When you reach the end of your rental contract and the landlord wants some change in the conditions which could mean pay more rent and/or pay a renewal fee, all you have to do is say NO. Then just continue to transfer the previous rent into the account as usual, and go on living there. If the landlord　has the foresight to cancel the account you have been transfering rent into, it will mean you have to set up a "kyoutaku" account with the court. Whatever happen CONTINUE TO PAY THE RENT! If you stop paying the rent for three months you can expect to be taken to court and evicted. CONTINUE TO PAY THE RENT. The landlord has to give you six months notice by 'proof of contents' (naiyo shoumei) with 'proof of delivery' letter, if he want to evict you or make a change in the rental contract. If the landlord wants you to leave on his conditions, expect for him have to pay Eviction Compensation. This should be about one years rent if it is his request that you leave. If you want to leave that is your choice of course.

It depends on how much you are willing to fight and how much you just want to bow down to the landlord. To just say hai! and pay whatever they ask is just being ignorant of your legal rights.

[GuyJean]

When you reach the end of your rental contract and the landlord wants some change in the conditions which could mean pay more rent and/or pay a renewal fee, all you have to do is say NO.

Thanks HSH.. This is what I heard from a few FGs before, but I couldn't recall the details.. I believe they hired a lawyer to deal with the situation, and the landlord immediately backed down.

I'll check my contract extensively, but it could be sticky as it's through my company; the rent is deducted from my salary so I don't have to pay income tax on that amount..

I'll check everything next week, and post what I find or learn.

Thanks again!

In the Pesci whine..

"They fuck you at the real estate agency. First they 'agency fee' your ass, then they fuck you. And when they are done fucking you along comes the renewal contract to fuck you some more. Eighty bucks a month for fucking 'cleaning fee'!"

GJ

[homesweethome]

Thanks HSH.. This is what I heard from a few FGs before, but I couldn't recall the details.. I believe they hired a lawyer to deal with the situation, and the landlord immediately backed down.

I could imagine that's what they did, but "hiring a lawyer" is like dropping an atom bomb for something that just needs a little surgery.

Your company and and your situation with them might be more complicated. Only you know that well enough to decide what to do though.

For some reason, I thought everybody at FG knew everything about everything. (:

Best regards.

[Greji]

I could imagine that's what they did, but "hiring a lawyer" is like dropping an atom bomb for something that just needs a little surgery.

GJ, you want I should send a couple of the fellows around to see the landlord. Nothing fancy you know, they can offer him some of our new medical insurance, which will help in removing his head from his rectum after they place it there for him.

I'm sure we can bring him around to our way of thinking!

[FG Lurker]

Thanks for the informative post HSH.

For some reason, I thought everybody at FG knew everything about everything. (:

Nah, that's only Charles!

[kamome]

GJ, I had this exact same problem when the lease was renewed on my apartment a few years ago. The renewal is automatic, but then the real estate agent contacts you to collect the renewal fee (equivalent to one month's rent) for doing absolutely nothing. It wasn't clear to me whether the money was for the landlord or the real estate agent, but in any case the real estate agent is sent to collect and all negotiations are done with the real estate agent. When the building is owned by a corporation or some other investment group, you usually never get to talk to ownership directly.

In my case I just complained bitterly over the phone to the real estate agent that I didn't understand the necessity of the fee. I just kept repeating "Metta ni wakaranai" over and over again. Their argument is that a renewal is akin to starting a new lease, which from a legal perspective sounds flawed - a renewal is not the same as a termination and entering into a new lease contract. In the case of a renewal, it is the same contract continuing under the same terms. I also made this point over the phone.

In the end, as some others suggested, it is a matter of negotiation between you and the agent. By complaining over and over again, I got the agent to "seek the landlord's opinion" and then they came back and agreed to not charge the renewal fee. If you're not confident in your Japanese ability, have a native negotiate on your behalf, but make sure they're tougher than the average Japanese and won't cave in to the other side.

[FG Lurker]

I really wonder if this is a Kanto thing... I've had three appartments here (Osaka) that I stayed in through lease renewals, all three rented through agencies. Never had anyone try to extort a lease renewal fee out of me.

[cstaylor]

That's because you were wearing your "Tiger's Pride" happi.

[Mulboyne]

No idea if this is right or wrong but it's another view.

Japan Times: Must I pay to renew my lease?

We have a question this week from reader Mark, who asks: "Do you have any information on apartment rental renewals fees ("koshinryo")?

"The real estate agent that I rent my apartment through wants me to pay a renewal fee every two years (70,000 yen as an agent fee, 21,000 yen for insurance, 20,000 yen guarantor fee; making a total of 111,000 yen). I have spoken to the Japanese Tenants' Association and Matsudo City Hall Ward Office, who both say that if the renewal fee is stipulated in my original contract then I should pay it. I thought my ward office would be able to direct me to the correct department of government to get the truth but they could only tell me they didn't know. I have been in my apartment for four years. I paid the fee two years ago but since then I have read in The Japan Times an article titled "Daylight Robbery -- and we take it" by Philip Brasor, which states that even if the original contract stipulates a renewal fee I don't have to pay it. The Kyoto court sided with a tenant who refused to pay it and the Tokyo municipal government has also adopted a policy to discourage it. I want to know if, by law, I have to pay the renewal fee. If I don't pay it, I want to be sure I have all the facts if I have to go to court. I've spent three months on this."

Attorney Watanabe tells us the important thing remains whatever your contract says. If your contract says you must pay a fee every two years to renew your contract, then you are legally bound to do so. If you go to court, you will likely be held to the agreement you have signed.

Another view comes from a real estate agent, Mr. Yamaguchi, who said the renewal system is a very market-based situation. When the economy is tough, people can often negotiate contracts without a renewal fee. When things get better the fee grows. If you are in a contract and you do not want to pay the renewal fee, you can talk with the owner and, in many cases, can negotiate to have it reduced, paid over time or, in some cases, removed, he says. When you are beginning a rental contract you can include the fact that you do not want to pay a renewal fee. Once you have agreed to pay the fee, though, you are bound by it. There is no law that requires that you pay a renewal fee, but if you have previously agreed to pay the fee, you are bound to do so. If you have not agreed to do so and reference to the fee is not included in your contract or lease, you are not legally bound to pay.

See also FG Thread: Supreme Court Rules For Tenants in Deposit Dispute