iMac 20" Core Duo -- Buy or not?

[FG Lurker]

Figured with all the Macheads here this would be a good place to ask.

A guy I know has offered me a one month old iMac 20" 2GHz Core Duo with 1GB memory for 160,000yen.

I've been thinking about picking up a Mac to play with and eventually move (back) to Apple when my current Windows machine gets old. My uses for the machine would be:

- Photo editing. I do a lot of this. Canon and Nikon RAW images.
- Net surfing
- Email (maybe, or may leave that on the Windows box)

The big thing is really the photo editing. Will I be happy with this iMac for running Photoshop with a couple of dozen 6 to 8mp digital camera photos open at one time?

Do these machines generate a lot of heat? It will be on 18 hours or so a day.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

[FG Lurker]

For reference sake, my current setup is:

AMD Athlon 64 3500+ (Single core, 2.2GHz)
2GB DDR 3200 / 400MHz
ATI 9600+ 256MB for Graphics
22" Mitsubishi CRT

[FG Lurker]

And finally...

If I decide not to get this, is there anyone on the board here who would be interested?

[SovietSupreme]

Don't throw away money on Apple computer. For years all they say is they are better than PC, and now they are PC! All they have is nice looking OS. Windows is better function though more ugly. You get more software and options for windows. People say Mac is more secure.. that is only true because nobody bothers to make virus for Mac since so few people use it. Photoshop is your best friend and is on both PC and Mac. Just get PC and save money with better built computers. In fact, best PC you can buy is CCCP-PC!

[electrocat]

For all that you are doing i would recommend the mac. I am a designer and use photoshop 8 hours a day on both PC and Mac. I can tell you that the mac experience is much better and stable. My mac will crash maybe once every 4 or 5 months. The Mac OS is much more elegant and years ahead of Windows. For example the search function will return 200 results in 2 seconds, including searching your email and your photoshop layer text.

It makes much more sense now to own a mac because of the windows option. Use your mac when you web surf because its safe.. no spyware, no virues.. and switch to windows if you need to use some obscure application or play video games.

Also Window uses the Registry. WTF.. I wish MS would get rid of that thing. It will be in Vista too.

BTW, your current machines sounds like it will outperform your imac. It has more ram, big video card and a bigger monitor.... And if you decide to get a mac.. buy a mouse with two buttons.. Logitech.. some people think you can only use one button mice on that.

[drpepper]

I doubt his machine would out perform the imac, especially in photoshop as his is a single core and the imac a dual core. I/O performance may lack a bit but any real filtering in photoshop will take advantage of the dual cores. That said I don't know if it is really a big enough speed difference for buying a new rig. Generally when you buy a new machince you want it to be more than just a little faster. Since you got a monitor you may wish to wait a few months for the upgraded memron chips to appear in a mini, they will be cheap and unless you do 3d having a 'good' video card won't make much of a difference in photoshop.

[GuyJean]

Since you got a monitor you may wish to wait a few months for the upgraded memron chips to appear in a mini..

Or, for a bit more money, get a Mac Pro now. ]http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore?family=MacPro[/url]

I've heard nothing but positive reviews from both PC and Mac heads..

But that's always my delima; Go into the store set to buy a Zaurus. Walk out with a tower.. "For just a bit more money....."..

GJ

[emperor]

a universal binary version of photoshop wont be out for another few months to a year, it has to run using rosetta on the core duo imacs at the moment.photoshop runs faster on a g5 imac vs an intel one
you may find a 20" G5 imac for 120,000 or less

___________________________________________

alternitively get an intel mac mini or a 2nd hand powermac G5 (there should be a few around now that the mac pro is out), cram it full of ram and spend the difference on a bigger display eg dell 24"

____________________________________________

or if your windows OS isnt bothering you all that much
keep your case, hdd's & psu, flog the rest
and look a core2duo E6300 or E6600 + socket 775 motherboard bundle with some DDR2 ram
and maybe a passively cooled 7300GT or 7600GT

[FG Lurker]

Don't throw away money on Apple computer. For years all they say is they are better than PC, and now they are PC! All they have is nice looking OS. Windows is better function though more ugly. You get more software and options for windows. People say Mac is more secure.. that is only true because nobody bothers to make virus for Mac since so few people use it. Photoshop is your best friend and is on both PC and Mac. Just get PC and save money with better built computers.

Actually, I don't care about the money, the eye candy OS, the industrial design, or the so-called better security.

The entire issue for me is Microsoft's horrible attitude and complete lack of any respect for their customers. I considered Linux but photo editing is of extreme importance to me and to be honest Linux still really sucks in this area.

[FG Lurker]

Thanks to everyone for the replies.

As I mentioned in my response to our politically handicapped member, my main reason for wanting to move back to Apple (I used Macs up to about 1991) is that Microsoft & their arrogance has pissed me off to the point that I no longer wish to use their software. (I realize that Apple can be arrogant as well...but they are far better than MS in my opinion.)

Buying the iMac would be a first step I guess. I wasn't planning to get a Mac at this point but this landed in my lap so now I get to consider it.

I'll ponder this a bit more.

[cstaylor]

On Emperor's comment on the Rosetta/Adobe issue: I've heard from various people that the big problem Adobe was having is that most of their software was written using Codewarrior, which has no Universal Binary support AFAIK, so they've been spending months porting everything over to XCode... not an easy task by any means.

[AlbertSiegel]

For all that you are doing i would recommend the mac. I am a designer and use photoshop 8 hours a day on both PC and Mac. I can tell you that the mac experience is much better and stable. My mac will crash maybe once every 4 or 5 months. The Mac OS is much more elegant and years ahead of Windows. For example the search function will return 200 results in 2 seconds, including searching your email and your photoshop layer text.

It makes much more sense now to own a mac because of the windows option. Use your mac when you web surf because its safe.. no spyware, no virues.. and switch to windows if you need to use some obscure application or play video games.

I work at one of the largest newspapers in the US and I use Macintosh computers between two departments 40 hours a week. I also always have my windows laptop next to my company issued Mac.

At home I have my Windows PC as well as a Mac mini. I hardly use the mac for anything other than one game and iPhoto to order some small photo books from Apple.

I really have tried to like Mac over windows, but the truth is I am more productive with Windows. I have much more choice with Windows. And I spend less money owning a windows system.

Sure, you need to spend money on anti-virus software on windows, but at least Microsoft does not charge you $130 every year for a minor OS update that should have been a service pack start with. Apple always claims that Microsoft wiss way behind because they are still on XP and VISTA is late as always. Well.. what about OSX? OSX has been around just as long as XP. Where is OSXI?

If you started with XP all you would have spent is the $200 for the OS till today since Microsoft has not charged for updates. If you started with Mac OSX, you would be at $520 for the OS and all its updates till today.

Microsoft may be a jerk with everyone, but Apple is no better. People just like to go for Apple because they feel that MS somehow screwed Apple over with the silly idea of stealing the "look and feel" of the Mac. Apple could have licensed out their OS, but they decided to be greedy and MS out smarted them. Apple lost because they were priced way too high.

Yes, Apple was a better computer than any IBM at the time. But now Apple has nothing over the PC in terms of hardware. If you want to look back, the Amiga was a far more powerful and better computer than any Apple you could have bought. but they died and it all went down to Apple and MS. In the end Windows won not because it was better, in fact Mac was way better than any windows PC you could have bought till about 2000. When Windows 2000 came out, it was way more stable than any Mac OS. Apple then came out with OSX and that was total crap! OSX 10.2 was the first time that OSX was good and stable. And it is a great OS, but not much better than Windows.

If you know how to use Windows and dont visit all these porn and warez sites, you might never get a virus. As Soviet Supreme said, Macs are safe because bonody bothers to do anything to them. They account for less than 3% of the market.

Apple is an asshole company in my opinion. I have never been happy with them. They are so smug. When I went to the Apple store, I asked about a small laptop. They said the 13" MacBook was all I needed. I said I need a PCMCIA slot and I need a small laptop. the 13" MB is not small.. it is normal sized. A 10-12" laptop is small. Apple does not offer me much choice. Their hardware can not do what I need it to do. So the Apple people tell me that I can go buy a hunk of junk windows PC and settle for less quality. I'm sorry, but Panasonic builds better quality laptops than Apple does at any price. anyway, Apple does not even make thair own laptops. They just design them.

In the end, I decided to stay with my Windows PC because I have more choice. The smug Apple people piss me off. My Mac crashes no more or no less often than my Windows PC. (I have only had four crashes on my XP system in the last 2 years. I have had more on my Mac) I spend less money keeping my PC up to date. And I am more productive with Windows. I really hate the Apple Dock and I like the Windows Task Bar.

I know most of you Mac people will think I am full of it. I really tried to like Mac. In the end, Apple's smug way of telling me what I need rather than listen to my needs as well as their constant race with Microsoft that they lost years ago all casued me to stay with Windows. I just feel more productive and have more choice. Photoshop works the same in either PC or Mac. No one is better than the other.

Anyone who say either one is better for something is full of it. They both do the same thing in the end. It just depends on you/

[GuyJean]

Anyone who say either one is better for something is full of it. They both do the same thing in the end. It just depends on you/

I agree. At work, all I use is Windows, and to be honest, it's not bad.. A little clunky, but not bad. Of course, I have an entire IT department working to make sure my computer runs smoothly, but overall it does what it should and, like you said, I'm productive.

Personally, I enjoy using Macs more.. It 'feels' better to me, so I prefer using Apple computers at home, where I tend to be more creative than productive. Working with video is a much smoother experience in Final Cut Pro than anything I've touched that's Window's based, IMO.

Basically, I can enjoy both platforms for what they're good at..

GJ

[American Oyaji]

Albert, you ARE full of it. I mean, your arguments are more emotional than logical, talking about how YOU feel how "smug" Apple is.

Do you know how fricking GOOFY the Windows operating system is and how hard it is to support? I work the help desk for Honda R&D and do you know how often we just re-image computers just because the problems are too idiotic to deal with? I'm talking people with years of experience and tons of certifications that will just say piss on it, just reimage it.

Of course Apple is going to charge for updates. They are a smaller company and have to. You can't fault their business model because they are STILL IN BUSINESS after many YEARS of pundits claiming Apple's impending doom. They ARE a business after all and expanding.
Many in the IT industry hate on Macs because they just don't understand it or are afraid that Apple's ease of use will put them out of business. My dad has a Dell. The second Dell he has owned in the past 5 years. The first one died and he has had to call tech support for both machines. He's a Mac person that switched to PC, but there are just too many headaches.
My current machine? It's a beige G3 300mhz that is just now getting too slow for what is on the web. I've had it for 8 years and I've never had to call tech support on it.
I mean, if you just HAVE to have the latest and greatest games, sure, go the PC route. But if you have a set purpose in what you want to do, the software is out there. Is it more expensive for Mac software? Probably because businesses know that there are less options. Now that bootcamp is out, those companies that gouged the Mac community may find that they will lose money fast. (there arent that many these days to be honest that do this).
But if you want to do it, you can do it on a mac, if you are willing to do the research to find the software you want. You'll spend less in tech support and less headaches and gray hair.
I mean, in XP, sometimes the system just STOPS for no damn reason and I have to go kill a mysteriously named process.
On my mac, on the odd occaison that something freezes, I just kill that program and I'm back in business.
I know the guts of both and OSX is relatively clean while XP is a festering cesspoll of slimy worm ridden filth.

And yes. I got emotional.

[Greji]

Or, for a bit more money,

GJ

Lurk!
Here's that state-of-the art "puter", that GJ's hinting about. He wants to give to you at cost!

[AlbertSiegel]

Albert, you ARE full of it. I mean, your arguments are more emotional than logical, talking about how YOU feel how "smug" Apple is.

And yes. I got emotional.

Why must you insult me like that? I stated my opinion on the way I see something. I am not the only one who thinks this even though many will think me wrong. That's fine. You will notice that I, the Windows guy, did not get so emotional and smug about the OS issue.

As I said, neither my PC or Mac is more stable. They both are very stable to me. There was a point in time years ago when Apple did not charge for updates unless they were a major OS update. Apple is just greedy. I remember when Quicktime was free. And it seems very weak that they force you to pay another $30 to use pro if you update iTunes.

I cannot comment on your PC or the people who use them. I'm very sure if you bought a cheap Mac full of tons of free junk softwre like most budget PCs, you would have trouble too. I hardly ever see a crash on either of my systems. My Macs at work are another story. The funny part is that the DELL computers we have are more stable than the Macs. I have no idea why. I think there is some app on the Mac doing that. I don't blame the Mac OS for that. I think DELL computers tend to be junk.

The truth is, they are both a fine choice. They both do the same thing in the end. Most people find windows more productive, and others just like the feel of the Mac OS. It's true that Windows is ugly as hell, but it gets the job done well. I find that it takes me longer to get my work done on a Mac than a PC. But that's just me. It sounds like you have an emotional issue (not logical in any way) with using windows.

My issue is with Apple as a company. I like Apple less than I do Microsoft. I am more productive with Windows due to my work style. Some people like Mac better, but the truth is most people are more productive with Windows even if the Mac does have a nicer feel to it. That's fine if your are into that, but I use my computer as a tool and not a toy.

[emperor]

as for productivity on a mac - those widgets are a total fucking distraction...

im writing this on an ibook and this comment has taken me 14 days so far

[electrocat]

well it sounds you are a little biased there albert. I have never bought a mac update i just borrow a friends CD with no CD key on it or serial the way windows has on it.

But seriously you do need to be a computer science major to work on a pc.. with all these mysterious proccesses going on like (oh let me pull it up on my pc now ) pccNTUpd.exe, ctfmon.exe, xpupg.exe, IAANTMon.exe.... these are the things i have to look at when trying to figure out if i have spyware or some virus shit on my PC... why bother? why bother researching these things? why do i have to know this? why do they name shit like that?

that is not productive. Both machines do the same thing.. one does it in a much more elegant way. its the mac. Dont get me started on the Registry.. the most ill conceived thing in all of windows history.

As far as options... oh man.. take a look at the 100 options in Internet explorer for PC.. i think alot of computer geeks wanna say that "oh the pc lets me do whatever i want.. it has more options".. thats fine for computer geeks that wanna hot rod their shit.. but for me, i need to work.. and combing thru 100 options does not get the job done. Simple clean design is where its at for me. Bloated mega machines are for mechanics.

[drpepper]

All flaming wars aside here, Albert you are a dick for bringing this here, someone asked a question and it has nothing to do with platform wars. He asked for advice and really you add nothing to that discusssion. He wants to get a mac and wants to know if the imac is the way to go for him, there was no asking if he should get a mac but more like when and which. Now we got this whole which is better crap which serves nobody.

[SovietSupreme]

drpepper and American Oyaji are both typical Mac user. I like them. They are communist like me. They know they need leader like Steve Jobes to tell them what they need and what to use. It is sad that they choose weak platform. They like computer that is same colour as my toilet. That is perfecct for them since both they and Mac are same thing that ends up in my toilet after I eat Soviet Burrito.

What they need is good CCCP-PC with OS-Soviet. This is best option for all work. With s-Movie you can make all the propaganda movies and photos you like. Even better if you get Soviet Cut Pro. Then they can have a real leader to tell them what they need. Soviet Supreme is real leader. Not even Evil Pongi can compare in his North Korea. He use Linux.

[emperor]

i hunger for soviet-burrito...
& dosent soviet supreme sound more and more like Borat?

what i didnt mention in my previous post was that Aperture is universal binary and will run nicely on any intel platform (& it dosent have to cost $299 wink wink)
as long as you have big screen (maybe 20" is big enough?) aperture will serve you well
youll need at least 2gb of ram to be comfortable though

[drpepper]

i hunger for soviet-burrito...

dosent soviet supreme sound more and more like Borat?

sounds like an idiot in any case... he has an aluminum toilet too...

[emperor]

he has an aluminum toilet

i dont think they be sportin dual-G5s and quad-woodcrests in his neck of Siberia: he probably means ceramic/plastic white

[FG Lurker]

But seriously you do need to be a computer science major to work on a pc.. with all these mysterious proccesses going on like (oh let me pull it up on my pc now ) pccNTUpd.exe, ctfmon.exe, xpupg.exe, IAANTMon.exe....

pcc is PC Cillin
ctfmon is part of MS Office
xpupg is part of Trend Micro Office SCan
IAANTMon.exe is part of Intel Application Accelerator, Intel's ATA driver package.

None of the processes you mentioned are from Windows itself. If you look at a process list (NOT a running app list!) for OS X I am sure you will see as many or more processes running. This is part of any modern multithreaded OS.

You don't need a CompSci background to use a PC or a Mac. You do need technical knowledge to diagnose either however.

these are the things i have to look at when trying to figure out if i have spyware or some virus shit on my PC... why bother? why bother researching these things? why do i have to know this? why do they name shit like that?

Those are process names, not app names. Process names are generally fairly cryptic on any OS. Most end users do not deal with things at the process level like that.

that is not productive. Both machines do the same thing.. one does it in a much more elegant way. its the mac. Dont get me started on the Registry.. the most ill conceived thing in all of windows history.

The registry was a good idea but poorly implemented. Hopefully MS will improve it. OS X is a great system but OS9 was a total POS equiv to about Win95. Many Mac Users like to get high and mighty about OSX being so much better than Win2K or XP. I disagree, from a stability standpoint they are about the same. One could argue that OSX is more secure, but on a properly set up network this really does not matter -- avoiding apps like IE and OE helps tremendously too. Eye Candy does nothing for me, I always turn off as much as I can.

As far as options... oh man.. take a look at the 100 options in Internet explorer for PC..

All modern browsers are like that. OSX may hide more of the options from a normal user but they will still be there, hidden in a config file buried on the disk.


I would never have considered changing to Apple pre-OSX and I can not comprehend people who actually used that horrible constantly-crashing total piece of shit that was OS9. I may hate Microsoft these days but they have had a stable & fast OS since NT4 came out. I still have NT4 running on an old proprietary database server and that OS never ever dies. No crashes, no slowdowns or hiccups, and this is 1995 technology! NT5 (aka Win2K) improved things even further, and NT5.1 (XP) improved graphics and video performance.

I am considering switching to OSX because MS has dropped the ball totally in the customer service area, is charging ridiculous subscription fees to businesses, and generally treats all their customers like thieves.

On the Apple side though one of the worst things has to be blathering idiots who treat their OS like a religion and go on and on about it, often without really understanding what the fuck they are talking about.

The question is, do I hate MS enough to want to be associated with blathering koolaid drinking steve jobs cocksucking idiots? Time will tell.

[FG Lurker]

I would never have considered changing to Apple pre-OSX and I can not comprehend people who actually used that horrible constantly-crashing total piece of shit that was OS9. I may hate Microsoft these days but they have had a stable & fast OS since NT4 came out. I still have NT4 running on an old proprietary database server and that OS never ever dies. No crashes, no slowdowns or hiccups, and this is 1995 technology! NT5 (aka Win2K) improved things even further, and NT5.1 (XP) improved graphics and video performance.

Probably bad form to quote myself but re-reading this reminded me of a story about just how fucked up OS9 was.

When I had my own consulting business I had an office in Shinsaibashi, one of the downtown districts of Osaka. In the building where my office was there were a lot of small design firms, all of whom ran Macs. I used to give them a bad time about how horribly unstable OS9 was, and since they were always bitching about crashes they couldn't really say much in return.

One day one of the designers speaks up and says, "Well, NT4 is just as bad! I have one NT4 machine for CAD work and it crashes just as much or more than my Mac!"

Me: "Huh? That's impossible."

A couple of days later I took a look at the machine for him. A friend of his had slapped it together and had not mounted the heatsink properly on the CPU, there was about 1mm of space between the top of the CPU and the heatsink. The chip had basically no cooling. Of course it would overheat and make NT bluescreen.

So, we have NT being killed regularly by running on a CPU without proper cooling....which was still about as stable as OS9.

Needless to say he had zero crashes after the chip started to get proper cooling. Still loved his Macs though.

[FG Lurker]

Anyway, I have decided to pass on the iMac. I don't have the time to play with it right now and I don't need to replace my Windows box yet.

Just looked at dual-core AMD prices and the X2 4400 and 4600 are both down to under 30,000yen. I think I'll pick one up later today and give myself a nice PSCS performance boost.

[mr. sparkle]

I work at one of the largest newspapers in the US and I use Macintosh computers between two departments 40 hours a week. I also always have my windows laptop next to my company issued Mac.

What would you use a PC for in an all Mac Shop?

At home I have my Windows PC as well as a Mac mini. I hardly use the mac for anything other than one game and iPhoto to order some small photo books from Apple.

Never checked out GarageBand? iMovie? iDVD? These are godhead apps.

I really have tried to like Mac over windows, but the truth is I am more productive with Windows. I have much more choice with Windows. And I spend less money owning a windows system.

Face it, you're set in your ways. I have an XP system. It's OK but I stay with my Mac. I think XP is ugly and klunky but I use it for one program. I guess you could say that, yes, I'm set in my ways too.

Sure, you need to spend money on anti-virus software on windows, but at least Microsoft does not charge you $130 every year for a minor OS update that should have been a service pack start with.

These are major OS updates and happen more like every 18 months. I don't mind paying the $99. I have no idea what a service pack is.

Apple always claims that Microsoft wiss way behind because they are still on XP and VISTA is late as always. Well.. what about OSX? OSX has been around just as long as XP. Where is OSXI?

You are so high by equating XP with OS X.

Vista is still being tested with new features copied from OS X. Watch the Keynote from WWDC. So many parts of the "upcoming Vista" are directly ripped off from OS X. OS X and XP are not in the same class of OS. OS X and the upcoming VISTA will be. And have you seen Leopard? It leaps way beyond Vista with a number of features. Check out "Time Machine" and Core Animation. Woo Hoo!

If you started with XP all you would have spent is the $200 for the OS till today since Microsoft has not charged for updates. If you started with Mac OSX, you would be at $520 for the OS and all its updates till today.

You forgot to include the price of your anti-virus, spyware suite good brother!

Microsoft may be a jerk with everyone, but Apple is no better. People just like to go for Apple because they feel that MS somehow screwed Apple over with the silly idea of stealing the "look and feel" of the Mac.

Not me. I use Mac 'cause I like 'em. You might try talking to some "switchers". People switch to Mac because the OS is more elegant and because they can run both XP And OS X on a single machine.

Apple could have licensed out their OS, but they decided to be greedy and MS out smarted them. Apple lost because they were priced way too high.

You're just not paying attention then. Price an equivalent Dell Workstation and a Mac Pro Tower. Identical hardware, the Mac is cheaper. Apple will not license their OS because they want to sell hardware. If they licensed OS X, it could very well kill off their hardware business.

Yes, Apple was a better computer than any IBM at the time.

At what time (other than now) does that matter?

But now Apple has nothing over the PC in terms of hardware.

What in the hell are you talking about? Are you sure you are up to date?

If you want to look back....bla bla bla.....Amiga was a far more powerful...blah blah blah....Windows won not because it was better....blah blah blah....Mac was way better....blah blah blah.....Windows 2000...blah blah blah....Mac OS....OSX and that was total crap....blah blah blah....

Dude, this is 2006. WHO CARES about the 90's.

OSX 10.2 was the first time that OSX was good and stable. And it is a great OS, but not much better than Windows.

It's even better at 10.4. And not much better than Windows? In what way? It sure is uglier. It sure is clunkier. It sure is slower. Ah well. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

If you know how to use Windows and dont visit all these porn and warez sites, you might never get a virus.

Which is why you should get a Mac. Porn, porn, beautiful PORN!! And it's all FREE from any nasty viruses. And what's a warez? That's for teenagers, not computer pros like us.

As Soviet Supreme said, Macs are safe because bonody bothers to do anything to them. They account for less than 3% of the market.

It's jumped way higher than that recently. Besides, who cares how big the market is or is not? Use the machine that works best for your line of work. In that 3 % of overall users, I'll bet that 90% of that 3% are graphic designers, video editors, print pros, etc. Hopefully, this makes sense to you. A Mac is not for everyone, sure. But computer newbies just love them 'cause they're very easy to figure out.

Apple is an asshole company in my opinion. I have never been happy with them. They are so smug.

I worked there and you have absolutely NO IDEA what you are talking about. Steve eats at the cafeteria and says HI to people, does Bill? It's a fantastic company that takes care of its employees. When it comes to doing business, would you expect them NOT to play hardball? Especially when your competitor is THE BORG? Give 'em a break.

When I went to the Apple store, I asked about a small laptop. They said the 13" MacBook was all I needed. I said I need a PCMCIA slot and I need a small laptop. the 13" MB is not small.. it is normal sized. A 10-12" laptop is small.

Three words for you: Mac Book Pro. That will come with a PCMCIA equivalent. PCMCIA is rather dead now. I believe the Express 34 card will add ports for you for an equal cost.

Apple does not offer me much choice.

4 MILLION possible configurations for the new Mac Pro tower. I guess that's not enough for you?

Their hardware can not do what I need it to do.

What do you need it to do?

So the Apple people tell me that I can go buy a hunk of junk windows PC and settle for less quality. I'm sorry, but Panasonic builds better quality laptops than Apple does at any price.

Yeah, but I'll be stuck with XP and I can't use my mission critical apps with XP only. I wouldn't mind having XP on board my Mac so I can run my accounting program and sell this ugly ass Compaq box.

Apple does not even make thair own laptops. They just design them.

Who cares? So Dell makes all the parts for their laptops? Be real.

In the end, I decided to stay with my Windows PC because I have more choice.

Have fun there. BTW, did you know that a new Mac might actually run XP faster than your PC?

The smug Apple people piss me off.

The Apple Store People, you mean? I wouldn't give those ninnies the time of day. You can get better advice here, prob'ly.

My Mac crashes no more or no less often than my Windows PC. (I have only had four crashes on my XP system in the last 2 years. I have had more on my Mac)

To quote AK, "I call BULLSHIT."

I spend less money keeping my PC up to date. And I am more productive with Windows. I really hate the Apple Dock and I like the Windows Task Bar.

Have fun there. And enjoy all those worries about viruses and spyware. I don't even keep my PC on the internet anymore. You know how good Soviet Supreme and his communist brothers are at cracking into your PC. Yes, they're that good. I wouldn't risk it.

I know most of you Mac people will think I am full of it.

No, ALL Mac people think you're full of it. You don't have the complete picture for 2006, my good man. You are living in the past and are influenced by all the PC types holding on for something better. If anything, I'd look ahead to Vista. It's almost an exact clone of OS X. Enjoy!

I really tried to like Mac.

Again, I call BULLSHIT. You didn't give it enough time, and you know I'm right.

In the end, Apple's smug way of telling me what I need rather than listen to my needs as well as their constant race with Microsoft that they lost years ago all casued me to stay with Windows.

Rock on with your bad self, then. Can't teach an old dog new tricks.

I just feel more productive and have more choice. Photoshop works the same in either PC or Mac. No one is better than the other.

Wrong again. But this time PCs have the advantage, to be honest.

Currently, PC probably has the edge in speed with Adobe Apps (rendering speed for After Effects, etc.). That is, until the universal binaries come out. It's a good thing I can boot into XP for rendering my After Effects Comps. The dual dual-core (quad proc) Mac Pro should kick ass for that while we wait.

Anyone who say either one is better for something is full of it. They both do the same thing in the end. It just depends on you/

Again I call BULLSHIT. Mac are better for some stuff, PCs are better for other stuff.

Proven!

[mr. sparkle]

On Emperor's comment on the Rosetta/Adobe issue: I've heard from various people that the big problem Adobe was having is that most of their software was written using Codewarrior, which has no Universal Binary support AFAIK, so they've been spending months porting everything over to XCode... not an easy task by any means.

Ah KRAP. I knew there was a reason that they weren't done by now. A lot of apps ported over rather quickly. Now we know why.

[mr. sparkle]

as for productivity on a mac - those widgets are a total fucking distraction...

im writing this on an ibook and this comment has taken me 14 days so far

I think widgets are useless too. I never use 'em. Lots of people DO like them though.

[mr. sparkle]

You will notice that I, the Windows guy, did not get so emotional and smug about the OS issue.

Just wait until Vista comes out. You'll change.

As I said, neither my PC or Mac is more stable. They both are very stable to me. There was a point in time years ago when Apple did not charge for updates unless they were a major OS update.

Repeat, repeat. Blah...blah....blah. You already said that.

Apple is just greedy. I remember when Quicktime was free.

QT IS free big guy. http://www.apple.com/quicktime

And it seems very weak that they force you to pay another $30 to use pro if you update iTunes.

You do not NEED QT Pro for iTunes. Nice to have if you want better features.

I'm very sure if you bought a cheap Mac full of tons of free junk softwre like most budget PCs, you would have trouble too.

Macs don't have that problem. The only "free junk" included with Macs isn't junk at all. It's called iLife 'O6. It's an elegant suite of software that's changing the world.

I hardly ever see a crash on either of my systems. My Macs at work are another story.

Well maintained, I'm sure by your IT department that I'm sure know Macs inside and out, no?

The funny part is that the DELL computers we have are more stable than the Macs. I have no idea why. I think there is some app on the Mac doing that. I don't blame the Mac OS for that. I think DELL computers tend to be junk.

Your IT guys are likely doing lots of troubleshooting on the bad junk (your Dells), and not doing anything with the good junk.

The truth is, they are both a fine choice. They both do the same thing in the end.

Who cares, it's all about "the ride" not the result.

Most people find windows more productive, and others just like the feel of the Mac OS.

Very narrow view of the computing world.

It's true that Windows is ugly as hell, but it gets the job done well. I find that it takes me longer to get my work done on a Mac than a PC.

'Cause you don't know the OS.

But that's just me. It sounds like you have an emotional issue (not logical in any way) with using windows.

I don't mind my PC, it's OK. But I could never use it like I use my Mac. I need my Apple apps to make a living..."but that's just me".

My issue is with Apple as a company. I like Apple less than I do Microsoft.

This sounds like one 'o those emotional issues.

I am more productive with Windows due to my work style. Some people like Mac better, but the truth is most people are more productive with Windows even if the Mac does have a nicer feel to it.

You have absolutely NO IDEA what you are saying.

That's fine if your are into that, but I use my computer as a tool and not a toy.

An idiotic statement after all that kvetching about how they're both just as good. Think man, think.