Yankee go home!

[stuckinkysuhu]

The below quote is great! Being Canadian though, I have to say I have never experienced that in Japan.

But one incident really stung.

"Man, it was bad," says the Rat Pack-y star of Swingers. "These girls saw us and were kind of flirting, and they kept asking us if we were American. Finally we said, 'Yes,' and they just took off.

"One girl turns and says, 'We were hoping you were Canadian.' Canadian? Since when was it cooler to be Canadian?"

[Big Booger]

shake them haters off..

Anti-Americanism is short lived. I mean as soon as they need us for something, we are all friends again..

Really doe, when Bush be gettin' his jizzed up crack infested booty out da white house, yo we be back in biness, word to the democrats. It's all Oochie Wally wally to me too yo, flip it up on da wesside, chillin on da pun tang, laydeez... take it down yo throat like a banana word, get crunked, den git yo jimmy waxed like Mr. Miyagi.

[Maciamo]

Anti-Americanism is short lived. I mean as soon as they need us for something, we are all friends again..

Yes, that means Americans have no real friends. Even nearby Canadians who speak the same language, share the same continent and life style, hate being mistaken for Americans (that's why they wear a Canadian falg on their bags when they travel). And that is not new ! It has been like that for as far as I can remember in my young life.

[Big Booger]

All countries are only friends if they are getting something from the other..

Anti-Americanism should be rephrased to something like,
"jealous haters without-ism"

I wished we would seriously consider a isolationist policy, closed door, etc...
Tell the rest of the world to fuck off, and protect our own. I mean we stand to lose a lot less from that sort of policy than the rest of the world would...

The global economy would crash if it not for the US... Europe would revert back to medievalness... another Nazi-esque invasion would surely take care of that..
Africa and South America would be overlooked as usual, Asia might prosper for a while, but eventually it would tumble, like the great CHinese Empires many moons ago.

ANd then there would be the Middle East.. If we left right now, oh.. I'd hate to think how that region would destablize... it would be a jihadists' paradise all over again.. Taliban and Al Qa-eda regimes would spring up like weeds in a garden left unattended.

I think the US is screwing up with war in Iraq.. I really believe we should wait, and I think a majority of Americans agree with that... no one wants war, unless they are Republican, or loony

But anti-americanism is indeed based on some crummy decisions by the Republican controlled WH.. AKA the 'BUSH Machine'...

Further, I think its more about pride than anti-americanism with Canadians..
They are often mistaken for Americans and it is a pride issue... If you were British and everywhere you went people asked if you were from Ireland... wouldn't you be a bit pissed off too?

[Maciamo]

"I'd say one in three conversations wound up the same way, basically that 'America is the devil.' So I'd ask folks to think about the Marshall Plan a bit and get back to me," says Vaughn, 32, referring to the Allied blueprint for the reconstruction of Europe after World War II. "In the end, though, I just had to tell people, 'I'm not having this discussion anymore.' "

The Marshall Plan was almost 60 years ago. People who were adult at the time are now over 80 now and decision makers (politicians), who were surely over 40 at the time, are dead. Americans in the 1940's are NOT the same people as now. That's a common mistake made by simple people when they compare countries. Rumsfeld is also primitive when he talks about "Old Europe" for Europeans are much more modern-minded than Americans nowadays. That is striking for anybody who's lived in both North-Western Europe and the US. The education level is so different that Europeans usually make joke about dum yanks. The image is the arrogant GI with a lot of muscle and courage and little in the brain, or the redneck that has never heard of Japan in their life or the average American who think New York is their capital.

It's as stupid to evoke the Marshall plan to talk about present Americans than talking of Spaniards as Conquistadors and Missionaries, or thinking that Japanese people who still happily do kamikaze in their were a war.

The world changes all the time. I can't even think of the average Russian now as being the same as 15 years ago. So fuck the shut up with your Marshall plan, for not much good has been done since then (Korea, Vietnam, Nicaragua, Iraq, etc, etc.)

[Marvin Feltcher]

I'm an Aussie, and a super patriot one at that. If we ruled the world, it would certainly be a decent place to live (imagine the cheap and decent beer you could buy everywhere).
Still, I love the United States. I like giving Americans hell, but it's all in good fun. I make no secret of being a great fan of America and Americans. Many Aussies are the same.
For better or worse, there has been no fairer or kinder Imperial power in history. I have no problem opening my house to American ideals and American people.
The rest of the world should thank its lucky stars for the USA. I certainly do...but have to admit that I still think the Aussies would do an even better job.

[Maciamo]

All countries are only friends if they are getting something from the other..

That's why you'll never have true friends. Good relations between, say, France and Japan at the moment have little to do with economy. Maybe it has more to do with a reciprocal interest in each other's culture. For instance, President Chirac is a sumo-fan. J-girls love Paris and French brands and French people in general have had a strong interest in J-culture in the last few years (and not just manga ).

Anti-Americanism should be rephrased to something like,
"jealous haters without-ism"

I wished we would seriously consider a isolationist policy, closed door, etc...
Tell the rest of the world to fuck off, and protect our own. I mean we stand to lose a lot less from that sort of policy than the rest of the world would...

Could try that. We'll see.

The global economy would crash if it not for the US... Europe would revert back to medievalness... another Nazi-esque invasion would surely take care of that..
Africa and South America would be overlooked as usual, Asia might prosper for a while, but eventually it would tumble, like the great CHinese Empires many moons ago.

Yeah, or if you like to look back at history, we could say that Americans will all become cow-boys and gold prospectors, or why not go native after they've lost their European roots and live in tupis and hunting bisons ?

This kind of comments is justly why everybody hates Americans : so blind and arrogant they can't even see what's real and what is history anymore. If you remove the 1% richest American people, you cut 20% off its GDP, which means Americans would not be very rich in average (less than European average, even though it has been lowered by countries like Greece).

Nazism is just 10 years in 3000 years of European history. It does only concern Germany (and lighter facism in Italy). Other countries have never been less democratic than the US during the 30's or 40's. Nowadays, ANY EU country is more democratic and pacifist than the US. What you reproach to the Nazi is their arrogance (we are superior to the rest of the world), desire of dominating the world and lack of democracy and diplomacy. That's EXACTLY what the Bush administration is doing now. Of course, Americans have never experienced nazism before and cannot recognise it at home, in the same way as most Germans and Italians couldn't see how bad it was in in the 30's.

Further, I think its more about pride than anti-americanism with Canadians..
They are often mistaken for Americans and it is a pride issue... If you were British and everywhere you went people asked if you were from Ireland... wouldn't you be a bit pissed off too?

I don't mind being called any European nationality, because when people ask me, I usually say I'm European, for I have mixed origins and have lived a bit everywhere. No problem with that. I would mind being mistaken for a Canadian or Australian or even Japanese (unlikely though).

[Big Booger]

Rumsfeld is also primitive when he talks about "Old Europe" for Europeans are much more modern-minded than Americans nowadays. That is striking for anybody who's lived in both North-Western Europe and the US. The education level is so different that Europeans usually make joke about dum yanks. The image is the arrogant GI with a lot of muscle and courage and little in the brain, or the redneck that has never heard of Japan in their life or the average American who think New York is their capital.

Lame...

[ramchop]

According to the poll 54% of the FG are Americans. That's a nice split, we should get a good debate here. Let's hope it doesn't descend into the name calling of a JT discussion although that's probably sadly inevitable.

So to stir the pot. A couple of generalisations:

Americans are unlikely to encounter Anti-Americanism at home. If someone hated America why would they want to go there?

Only Americans interested in the rest of the world are likely to encounter Anti-Americanism. If an American is not interested in the rest of the world then why would he want to go there?

The Americans who encounter this Anti-Americanism are probably the least deserving of such treatment as they, unlike many of their compatriots, take an interest in the rest of the world.

[Big Booger]

Yeah, or if you like to look back at history, we could say that Americans will all become cow-boys and gold prospectors, or why not go native after they've lost their European roots and live in tupis and hunting bisons ?

I hate to remind you, but most "Americans" historically, at least until recent years, were Europeans... so you are talking about your own kindred..

This kind of comments is justly why everybody hates Americans : so blind and arrogant they can't even see what's real and what is history anymore.

SO you are saying arrogance makes us blind to "real history"... I think you sir are confused. I think you confuse arrogance with pride..., while related are not the same... we are proud to be American, but we are not making undue claims in an overbearing manner... I am simply telling you how Europe was before the Marshall plan... is that undue, or overbearing? I think not.

If you remove the 1% richest American people, you cut 20% off its GDP, which means Americans would not be very rich in average (less than European average, even though it has been lowered by countries like Greece).

You can apply that to any modern power in the world today... except maybe for China and India... but I would love to see the mathematical computations that used to come up with your ingenious figures.

I don't mind being called any European nationality, because when people ask me, I usually say I'm European, for I have mixed origins and have lived a bit everywhere. No problem with that. I would mind being mistaken for a Canadian or Australian or even Japanese (unlikely though).

I didn't say European... I said British/Irish.. but you must not be very prideful of your heritage, as many other people are. YOu are unique I guess in that respect.. if everyone were like you, it'd be one happy go lucky planet I guess.

[Big Booger]

Nazism is just 10 years in 3000 years of European history. It does only concern Germany (and lighter facism in Italy). Other countries have never been less democratic than the US during the 30's or 40's. Nowadays, ANY EU country is more democratic and pacifist than the US. What you reproach to the Nazi is their arrogance (we are superior to the rest of the world), desire of dominating the world and lack of democracy and diplomacy. That's EXACTLY what the Bush administration is doing now. Of course, Americans have never experienced nazism before and cannot recognise it at home, in the same way as most Germans and Italians couldn't see how bad it was in in the 30's.

Well put, but I wonder if you have forgotten other injustices and the rapings of the British:
http://www.africahistory.net/Britishcolonialism.htm

http://www.lcsc.edu/modernchina/u3s3p1.htm

http://www.rc.umd.edu/publications/cup/fulfordandkitson/fulford/fulford1.html

I could post thousands of links on that topic.. but of course the British were just "educating those dum yanks" all over Africa, South AMerica, Asia, etc...

They even tried it in America...

[Maciamo]

You have a good point here, ramchop. But let's not forget all the military or diplomats send abroad by the US, which make up a big part of the Americans abroad. Anyway, I do not dislike all American people just because they are American of course. I've met lots of "good" American people too. What people usually call "anti-Americanism" is directed towards the US government (foreign policy, in particular) and people who behave like Big Booger. That's maybe only half of the Americans. I am sure that people living in cities like New York would be much more open to the world and closer in mentality to Europeans. I've got the feeling that the most hardline Americans come from the plains rather than the coasts. Bush got his votes from the countryside and Texas, not from "modern and international America".

[Maciamo]

Nazism is just 10 years in 3000 years of European history. It does only concern Germany (and lighter facism in Italy). Other countries have never been less democratic than the US during the 30's or 40's. Nowadays, ANY EU country is more democratic and pacifist than the US. What you reproach to the Nazi is their arrogance (we are superior to the rest of the world), desire of dominating the world and lack of democracy and diplomacy. That's EXACTLY what the Bush administration is doing now. Of course, Americans have never experienced nazism before and cannot recognise it at home, in the same way as most Germans and Italians couldn't see how bad it was in in the 30's.

Well put, but I wonder if you have forgotten other injustices and the rapings of the British:
http://www.africahistory.net/Britishcolonialism.htm

http://www.lcsc.edu/modernchina/u3s3p1.htm

http://www.rc.umd.edu/publications/cup/fulfordandkitson/fulford/fulford1.html

I could post thousands of links on that topic.. but of course the British were just "educating those dum yanks" all over Africa, South AMerica, Asia, etc...

They even tried it in America...

I am not sure we speak the same language. Haven't I say early in this thread that people now are NOT the same as people even 60 years ago ? The British or other European people you are talking about are probably more your ancestor (given you're are a white American) than mine, for the Europeans who exterminated native Indians are also the ones who've settled there, not those who stayed in Europe. You should be careful with this kind of double edge argument about colonisation !

[ramchop]

What people usually call "anti-Americanism" is directed towards the US government (foreign policy, in particular) and people who behave like Big Booger.

In defence of BB, I've lived abroad twice in my lifetime. On both occassions I've found myself becoming more irrationally patriotic than I ever have felt at home.

Unfavourable comments against your country even your government (which you may have even voted against) are taken much more personally, and you can find yourself getting quite defensive.

On the other hand sitting around the coffee table back home you're much more likely to bitch and moan about your own country yourself.

[Marvin Feltcher]

Even with the Bush administration's bluster over Iraq, there is little doubt that without the U.S., the world would be a hell of a lot less peaceful than it is.
American military might is used to protect peace. It is the greatest deterrent to the wanton death that Europeans used to periodically inflict on the rest of the world.
European pacifism is misguided. France (one of the most abhorent nations on Earth with its history of oppression, colonialism, Nazi/Vichyism and the most deadly nuclear weapon testing program ever conceived) defends the likes of Saddam Hussein.
Bush is an idiot, and he is not alone among U.S. leaders, but I have no doubt they believe they are acting in the best interests of the American people, which by extension also means others like us that the Americans protect.
Europe's "enlightened pacifists" should be targeting the real warmongers; the ones who steal planes and crash them into buildings; the ones who force others to live under constant threat of being bombed or exposed to chemical or biological weapons; and yes, even the ones whose unreliable control over oil threatens the economic well-being of other countries.
I like the right to feel safe wherever I am and I'm grateful to the United States for protecting that right for me.

[Big Booger]

In defense of BB, I've lived abroad twice in my lifetime. On both occasions I've found myself becoming more irrationally patriotic than I ever have felt at home.

Unfavourable comments against your country even your government (which you may have even voted against) are taken much more personally, and you can find yourself getting quite defensive.

On the other hand sitting around the coffee table back home you're much more likely to bitch and moan about your own country yourself.

Here here.

I agree, normally I wouldn't have even posted a word.. about the ravings and rantings about anti-Americanism.. I would have been arrogant and blew the off...

But when I am abroad I hear it more than usual. I see how great my country is, and I also can fairly evaluate the negatives as well, more so than staying at home. I have been out of the US 3 times in my life, and once to Canada, but that really doesn't count..

I want to understand the negativism of American values.. to compare US policy now, with that of Nazism... is beyond me. Americans are some of the largest contributors of AID in the WHOLE world... to needy nations..

The US is a lot like a parent, we try hard to set a good example, but sometimes we deviate.. don't hate us for our deviations.

[Big Booger]

I dont give a rats ass about GDP.. we spend more period, how it relates to our gross domestic product does not matter to me...


The U.S. ranks last among the 21 industrialized nations in terms of percentage of GNP allocated to foreign aid. In terms of actual dollars, the U.S. gives more international economic assistance than Japan, Britain, Germany, and France. Promoting Trade: Foreign aid promotes open-markets and breaks down trade barriers, thus increasing U.S. exports.

There is the info you were looking for...
We have payed our way.. we started the damn aid programs... its about time the rest of the world kicks in..

man this burns me to hear shit about GDP versus aid spent... We give, how much we give compared to what we make is negligible...

If Japan makes 1 dollar and gives 50 cents.. they did well...

If AMercan makes ten dollars and gives 4 dollars.. they gave more, but sacrificed less...
who gives a shit.. the point is we gave more.

[Captain Japan]

I've lost the article of the Economist that had the stats of world aid. America spend much much less in aid to development than Europe or Japan, compared to their respective GDP. Any search on the web will confirm it.

This is indeed correct. But Japan's ODA program through JICA is mainly a fancy way of giving charity to Japanese construction, consulting, and material supply companies. The actual benefit to the receiving country is nearly always questionable.

You think Japan constructs senseless dam, road, and bridge projects in its homeland? Take a tour around the South Pacific and Asia. The same useless stuff is everywhere - and through ridiculously bloated budgets to ensure free-flowing alcohol and hookers. LDP politicians, their cronies, and the ones involved in the actual work are the main beneficiaries in these scams.

The work of the JOCV people (teachers, trainers) is commendable. But by comparison to the budgets of the corrupted Muneo Suzuki-type projects, they are almost insignificant.

Captain

[Big Booger]

Interesting take on the subject "Guest"

[Big Booger]

So instead of beeing mortally offended, stating like Bush 'Who is not with us is against us' or like BB 'Anti-Americanism is short lived. I mean as soon as they need us for something, we are all friends again..' it would be a lot more mature to say 'Hey, let's listen to them and reconsider'.

Interesting.

[American Oyaji]

Bush a.ka. The Smirking Chimp
is a big fat idiot warmongering republidrone.

I'd prefer Clinton. I think he may run again. I'd vote for him.



I have a prediction though. The U.S. will invade Iraq and next year when its time to vote for a new prez, there will be a "temporary" moratorium on a change in presidency during such a critical time.

mark my words.

big brother HAS arrived. You just dont know it yet.

[GuyJean]

Bush a.ka. The Smirking Chimp
is a big fat idiot warmongering republidrone.

I don't even think he's American. He's Texan, and that's "like a whole nuther country." (Travel ad about 6 years ago)

I'd prefer Clinton. I think he may run again.

Technically, I don't think he can. Did you mean 'she' may run again?

The U.S. will invade Iraq and next year when its time to vote for a new prez, there will be a "temporary" moratorium on a change in presidency during such a critical time.

Hope not! I don't think the war would last that long. Like a lot of Iraqi soldiers in GWI (Gulf War I), I think they'll run out of their fox-holes, waving white flags, yelling, "Give me some food!".. Although, I've heard Saddham has planted 'loyalists' in the ranks to make sure this doesn't happen again.

Yesterday I saw a report on NHK about Iraqis living and working in the States. Although most of their family members were still in Iraq, ALL OF THEM were pro war!! (?) One of them even commented on how the 'freed' Iraqis should do a better job of voicing support for Bush..

Also, now that Ron Jeremy.. er, I mean Khalid Shaikh Mohammed is caught and talking, is an immediate attack necessary? Shouldn't we wait to see if he provides a link to Iraq? Because so far, I've seen NO link!



Mai Too Sense.

GJ

[Maciamo]

Hey, our 2 last guests were really interesting to read indeed.

[American Oyaji]

Also, now that Ron Jeremy.. er, I mean Khalid Shaikh Mohammed is caught and talking, is an immediate attack necessary? Shouldn't we wait to see if he provides a link to Iraq? Because so far, I've seen NO link!

OMG! I thought I was the only one that saw the resemblence. I was hoping that Leno would say something about it.

As far as Bill Clinton goes....You're probably right, I forgot he was impeached, but he wasnt removed from office (which is dumb, why impeach if you aint gonna remove)

yeah, the state that The Smirking Chimp comes from is a whole nother issue pardner.