Treacherous Foreign Bank Slammed For Good Service

[Mulboyne]

The scene of the crime

Asahi: Bank under fire for free service
Megabanks and regional banks are pressuring Tokyo Star Bank to stop letting their customers use its ATMs for free. When a bank's customer uses an ATM of another bank, the first bank pays 105-210 yen in commissions to the second bank. The second bank usually charges the customer 105-210 yen as well. By offering free service to everyone, Tokyo Star Bank can attract more users to its ATMs, which means other banks have to pay more commissions. Tokyo Star Bank, which started the free ATM service in May 2004, provides the free service to its own customers as well. The Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi UFJ has told Tokyo Star Bank that it will cancel the contract for interconnecting their ATM networks, effective Sunday...Toshio Seya, chairman of the Regional Banks Association of Japan, said it is "morally unacceptable" for Tokyo Star Bank to serve its own interests alone by capitalizing on the mutual-support system of ATM interconnections...more...

[nullpointer]

Tokyo Star Bank was Tokyo Sowa Bank before Lone Star bought them and subsequently went for the IPO. It should be classified as a Japanese bank just like Shinsei, no?

[Mulboyne]

The IPO didn't take control of the bank out of foreign hands so, like Shinsei Bank, it remains a foreign-owned bank operating in Japan. The owners have talked about selling out completely but have yet to close a deal.

[chan]

I heard several of the main banks offer free ATM usage. I know UFJ does. The only catch is you need to put a lot of cash in and keep it there. And you waive all interest (that's a loss!). Does anyone know any more details about how to avoid these charges?

[FG Lurker]

I heard several of the main banks offer free ATM usage. I know UFJ does. The only catch is you need to put a lot of cash in and keep it there. And you waive all interest (that's a loss!). Does anyone know any more details about how to avoid these charges?

Use Shinsei.

Free access at any of Shinsei's ATMs and also free access at any 7-11 ATM. They also have an excellent online banking system that functions completely in English or Japanese.

[flotsam]

they're also the biggest bunch of racists you'll ever come across.

[FG Lurker]

they're also the biggest bunch of racists you'll ever come across.

That's a pretty serious accusation to throw out without some hard data to back it up. More information?

[GomiGirl]

Use Shinsei.

Free access at any of Shinsei's ATMs and also free access at any 7-11 ATM. They also have an excellent online banking system that functions completely in English or Japanese.

Well not exactly... there are times (especially on the weekends) that the ATMs don't work and the on-line system requires a little bit of Japanese.. inputting katakana at least for furikomis. Ok for some but it is not 100% English as claimed.

The only really big problem that I have with them is if you make a small error in the details of the Furikomi, you don't find out until the next day and you have to check up on it on-line to see if the money has gone through or credited back to your account..

But it is a HUGE improvement on the traditional Japanese banks. Their phone support is fantastic.

[oyajikun]

Well not exactly... there are times (especially on the weekends) that the ATMs don't work and the on-line system requires a little bit of Japanese.. inputting katakana at least for furikomis. Ok for some but it is not 100% English as claimed.

The only really big problem that I have with them is if you make a small error in the details of the Furikomi, you don't find out until the next day and you have to check up on it on-line to see if the money has gone through or credited back to your account..

But it is a HUGE improvement on the traditional Japanese banks. Their phone support is fantastic.

Before, my only problem with Shinsei was the same as yours. Online transfers in Japanese. But now I'm in Okinawa, and the only ATM's I can use are at the Post Office. No 7-11s here,, and both of the local banks, Ryukyu and Okinawa Ginko do not support Shinsei cards. I guess thats not Shinsei's fault though..

[FG Lurker]

Well not exactly... there are times (especially on the weekends) that the ATMs don't work

I've never had problems at a 7-11 ATM or a Shinsei one... Downtime is certainly possible though.

and the on-line system requires a little bit of Japanese.. inputting katakana at least for furikomis. Ok for some but it is not 100% English as claimed.

Furikomi is impossible to avoid. You have to enter the name of the person you are sending to, and that is always in katakana. In theory they could collect romanisations of Shinsei account holder's names, but since they have no control over other banks and since katakana is the standard they'd still be unable to offer complete romanized furikomi.

There is also the problem that people pick different romanizations for their names -- Kouhei is often written as Kohei, even though it is wrong. Hell the romanization Osaka is wrong, Tokyo and Kyoto are wrong too. You'd have a lot more returned furikomis if a romanized system was put in place. ]The only really big problem that I have with them is if you make a small error in the details of the Furikomi, you don't find out until the next day and you have to check up on it on-line to see if the money has gone through or credited back to your account..[/quote]
It would be great if Shinsei would display the account holder's name on the screen like happens at major bank ATMs. I'm not sure why they don't do this but I would guess it is some sort of net privacy crap. The delay is caused because Shinsei sends your incorrectly entered furikomi to the target bank who then sends it back the next day due to your errors.

But it is a HUGE improvement on the traditional Japanese banks. Their phone support is fantastic.

It's a massive improvement over all banks here, light-years ahead of Shitibank too. And so far Shinsei hasn't tried to double-debit me and they don't charge 2000yen a month for the acount either.

[Mulboyne]

Dutch financial giant ING are considering launching their ING Direct online banking service in Japan. It has already been very successful in Europe and the U.S.

"Japan for us is the biggest strategic decision in terms of moving forward," Harryvan said, "We have researched the Japanese market already four years ago and to be frank we have a team on the ground there looking at the whole market." Indeed, most analysts see Japan as an inevitable next step for ING Direct, with its high savings rate, a developed inter-bank payments system and a recovering economy with depositors hungry for returns after a decade of near-zero interest rates. The world's second-largest economy has already experimented with online banking. Largest is eBank with 1.65 million customers and even consumer electronics group Sony has an online bank. Among foreign entrants, Citigroup unit Citibank also offers Internet banking.

In a country of 128 million people and nearly 7 trillion euros in deposits -- the opportunities in Japan are huge, even despite the risks. "We know that Japanese consumers are absolutely brutal when it comes to quality. You've got the get it right the first time," Harryvan said.

[Socratesabroad]

Mulboyne, Taro, or other wizened ones who wish to comment...

I was curious about one thing:

Is Tokyo Star Bank providing free ATM service temporarily as a simple draw for customers - which they'll rescind once they've built a decent customer base - or is the move considered a long-term feature of the bank's service?

Just wondering...

[Samurai_Jerk]

I've got Shinsei too and the service is great. The only beef I have with them is the lack of ATMs that I can make withdrawals from. I wish they'd get their shit together and be available at all conbini ATMs.

[flotsam]

they advertise full support in english, these shinsei bank people. i've called them four times.

"hello, i'd like to cancel a standing order."
"we need permission from the japanese recipient."
"it's my account, and i'd like to cancel the outgoing money."
"we need permission from the japanese recipient."
"i set up the standing order and now i'd like to cancel the standing order."
"we need permission from the japanese recipient."

"hello, i've got a few questions about the home loan."
"hai?"
"i've got a few questions about the home loan"
"ehh, no english... chotto matte....




...english... wednesday telefon shite"
"nihongo dekimasuka?"

"hello, i've got a few more questions about the home loan."
"thank you so much for your calling. we are always happy to take your calling and to help in every way possible."
"?"
"my name is nakamura, i'll be your telephone guide for this telephone. so happy to help you."
"yep, great. now you say on your website no fees and foreigners can apply."
"thank you for your calling sir. please hold...




...can you repeat the question?"
"okay. your website says foreigners can apply for the homeloan."
"please hold... thank you for your question. yes, foreigners can apply."
"and it says no fees."
"please hold... thank you for your question. yes, we have no fees."
"so what fees, as a foreigner, can i expect to pay?"
"please hold... thank you for your question. foreigner pay one million yen fee for set up."
"thanks"

"hello, just one last ditch attempt here to try and crack the home loan code."
"thank you for your calling. my name is nakamura."
"jesus christ, it's you again."
"how can i help you?"
"i'm a foreigner so i understand i have to pay a truck load of extra fees."
"thank you."
"i'd like to know how my work status and marital status affect the loan application."
"thank you for your question. please hold... you are married?"
"yes."
"is your wife pure japanese?"
"you're lucky you asked me that question, sunshine, because if her dad got wind of you, he'd cut you into so many pieces your family would be looking for them for a hundred years."

[oyajikun]

they advertise full support in english, these shinsei bank people. i've called them four times.

"hello, i'd like to cancel a standing order."
"we need permission from the japanese recipient."
"it's my account, and i'd like to cancel the outgoing money."
"we need permission from the japanese recipient."
"i set up the standing order and now i'd like to cancel the standing order."
"we need permission from the japanese recipient."

"hello, i've got a few questions about the home loan."
"hai?"
"i've got a few questions about the home loan"
"ehh, no english... chotto matte....




...english... wednesday telefon shite"
"nihongo dekimasuka?"

"hello, i've got a few more questions about the home loan."
"thank you so much for your calling. we are always happy to take your calling and to help in every way possible."
"?"
"my name is nakamura, i'll be your telephone guide for this telephone. so happy to help you."
"yep, great. now you say on your website no fees and foreigners can apply."
"thank you for your calling sir. please hold...




...can you repeat the question?"
"okay. your website says foreigners can apply for the homeloan."
"please hold... thank you for your question. yes, foreigners can apply."
"and it says no fees."
"please hold... thank you for your question. yes, we have no fees."
"so what fees, as a foreigner, can i expect to pay?"
"please hold... thank you for your question. foreigner pay one million yen fee for set up."
"thanks"

"hello, just one last ditch attempt here to try and crack the home loan code."
"thank you for your calling. my name is nakamura."
"jesus christ, it's you again."
"how can i help you?"
"i'm a foreigner so i understand i have to pay a truck load of extra fees."
"thank you."
"i'd like to know how my work status and marital status affect the loan application."
"thank you for your question. please hold... you are married?"
"yes."
"is your wife pure japanese?"
"you're lucky you asked me that question, sunshine, because if her dad got wind of you, he'd cut you into so many pieces your family would be looking for them for a hundred years."

Thats funny. I'm guessing you called around 6 months ago, when all the banks were taking in new graduates.

[Greji]

Thats funny. I'm guessing you called around 6 months ago, when all the banks were taking in new graduates.

I don't know, you can do that even if you don't get the newbee's. Still a funny post, enjoyed it!

[FG Lurker]

they advertise full support in english, these shinsei bank people. i've called them four times.

I would guess that the million yen extra for a gaijin was a miscommunication.

As for the rest, I don't see anything that would back your previous statement, and apart from Shinsei or Shitibank I don't think you will get any (reasonable level of) service in Engrish at a bank in Japan. (UFJ was happy to lend me money on excellent terms but everything from the initial application to the final contract was in Japanese.)

[Samurai_Jerk]

I've actually never called Shinsei's helpline in English or Japanese, but now that I think about it, one of my buddies said that whenever he tried to called the English helpline no one picked up.

[GomiGirl]

I've actually never called Shinsei's helpline in English or Japanese, but now that I think about it, one of my buddies said that whenever he tried to called the English helpline no one picked up.

I have called it a few times and always get an English speaker. Support over the phone has always been great IMHO.

[Mulboyne]

Is Tokyo Star Bank providing free ATM service temporarily as a simple draw for customers - which they'll rescind once they've built a decent customer base - or is the move considered a long-term feature of the bank's service?

I think they intend free ATM service at all times for their own customers to be part of their standard package. I don't know whether they intend to offer free ATM service to customers of other banks on a permanent basis. The backlash means that they probably won't be able to and they may have anticipated that when they first introduced it. The news article quoted above is from the Asahi so they will have achieved one goal of getting publicity even if no-one else picks up the story.

It really is in the interest of all the banks to consider no fees for cross withdrawals given that competition for customer deposits will increase with the post office bank lumbering into view.

[Mulboyne]

Looks like Tokyo Star isn't the only bank doing this:

Asahi: Agreement reached on free ATM service

Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi UFJ customers in Gifu and Aichi prefectures have regional lender Ogaki Kyoritsu Bank to thank if there's a little extra dosh in their accounts at the end of the year. Ogaki Kyoritsu allows customers from other banks to use many of its ATMs free of charge, a practice that isn't sitting well with major banks, including the Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi UFJ. But now, sources say, the two banks have come to an agreement that will allow Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi UFJ customers to continue using Ogaki Kyoritsu ATMs for free in exchange for a drop in the commissions the regional lender charges the megabank for each transaction. The Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi UFJ had threatened to discontinue service through Ogaki Kyoritsu ATMs. The agreement could set a precedent for ongoing negotiations between other banks offering free ATM services, such as Tokyo Star Bank, and those that oppose the practice...more...

[Mulboyne]

Euro2Day: ING says it expects to launch ING Direct in Japan later this year

ING Group NV said it has initiated the process of obtaining a banking licence from Japan''s Financial Services Agency for its internet bank ING Direct. Subject to regulatory approval, ING Direct expects to launch its operation in the Japanese market in the second half of 2007.

[Mulboyne]

They threatened to do it before and now they've actually done it:

Kyodo via Japan Today: Bank of Tokyo-M'bishi to end ATM alliance with Tokyo Star Bank

Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi UFJ has notified Tokyo Star Bank of its plan to terminate as early as autumn their automated teller machine sharing deal. The core banking unit of Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Group Inc is frustrated by the fact that Tokyo Star Bank has been receiving more ATM commission revenues than Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi under the deal, informed sources said. In a typical mutual ATM operation agreement, a bank receives 105 yen from its partner bank each time a customer of the partner bank uses its ATM, while the customer is charged 105 yen for such an ATM transaction. But as Tokyo Star Bank collects no such fees, Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi customers have flocked to Tokyo Star Bank ATMs installed at 2,500 locations, resulting in the large commission revenue gap, the sources said.

Tokyo Star Bank in 2004 allowed depositors of other banks to use its own ATMs free of charge and stepped up the installation of its ATMs at convenient stores operated by Circle K Sunkus Co as well as supermarkets. Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi had once decided to severe its ATM ties with Tokyo Star Bank, but reversed the decision in view of resulting inconvenience to customers. The megabank now believes that cancellation of the deal will not hamper customer convenience, since it already has stopped charging its depositors transaction fees at some 23,000 ATMs installed at convenience stores other places nationwide during office hours, according to the sources.

[bolt_krank]

Is it just me that thinks this is unethical ?

[Greji]

Is it just me that thinks this is unethical ?

Naw! TIJ. You step out of line with your business and they'll knock your dick in the dust!

[Mulboyne]