How I feel now, after yesterday's racist.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Speaking of racism, anyone catch Seinfeld's Kramer having a racist meltdown after getting heckled by some black guys during a show? BTW, this is Japan related because Seinfeld was aired here.

[gv]-1144494716680810403[/gv]

And here's his very odd uncomfortable apology on Letterman.

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[Iraira]

Speaking of racism, anyone catch Seinfeld's Kramer having a racist meltdown after getting heckled by some black guys during a show? BTW, this is Japan related because Seinfeld was aired here.
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I'm sure the "Afro-Americans" will accept his apology.

[nullpointer]

What a jerk

[American Oyaji]

I'm sure the "Afro-Americans" will accept his apology.

*ahem* This "African-American" would like to comment on this situation.
*ahem*

F*CK 'IM

[maninjapan]

How did the term African-American come about?

Surely if you were born in the USA you're American?

[American Oyaji]

Its not about where you are born in the USA, it's about where your people came from. The U.S. is a nation of immigrant decendants.

[maninjapan]

Guess that explains why noone I know over there says they are British American.

[American Oyaji]

But you'll hear Irish American. Descendants of the British are just 'white' or caucasian. They are the average and the majority. It's the minorities and LATER immigrants that get the "tag".

[GomiGirl]

But you'll hear Irish American. Descendants of the British are just 'white' or caucasian. They are the average and the majority. It's the minorities and LATER immigrants that get the "tag".

Why the need for the labels and qualifications? I am just curious as this seems to be a part of American culture to introduce yourself as where you are from (eg "I am from Cali", I am from "Timbucktoo") and my ancesters were from....so I am Chinese-American, African-American, Irish-American and so on.

This is not a criticism, just an observation and I am curious as to the reasoning. Most other nationalities just say, I am Fred from England, I am Miho from Japan or I am GomiGirl from Australia (eventhough my father is from England).... etc.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Why the need for the labels and qualifications? I am just curious as this seems to be a part of American culture to introduce yourself as where you are from (eg "I am from Cali", I am from "Timbucktoo") and my ancesters were from....so I am Chinese-American, African-American, Irish-American and so on.

This is not a criticism, just an observation and I am curious as to the reasoning. Most other nationalities just say, I am Fred from England, I am Miho from Japan or I am GomiGirl from Australia (eventhough my father is from England).... etc.

I've never ever in my life heard anyone introduce themselves by saying, "I'm (insert ethnicity here)-American". But I do agree that Americans and Canadians do seemed obsessed with ethnic background.

[GomiGirl]

I've never ever in my life heard anyone introduce themselves by saying, "I'm (insert ethnicity here)-American". But I do agree that Americans and Canadians do seemed obsessed with ethnic background.

Not in person but on discussion boards and in emails all the time.

[ichigo partygirl]

When every single form you have to fill in asks you what your ethnic group is you get pretty used to identifying with it.
When scholarships, welfare, schools etc are divided by ethnic group it isnt easy to forget about it.
GG - i dont know what aussie is like compared to NZ but here everything seems to be compartmentalised by ethnic groups - most job applications even have a "fair-employment policy" form they ask you to complete which ask your ethnic group. Hell in NZ we even have a politcal party called "The Maori Party"

[Captain Japan]

Why the need for the labels and qualifications? I am just curious as this seems to be a part of American culture to introduce yourself as where you are from (eg "I am from Cali", I am from "Timbucktoo") and my ancesters were from....so I am Chinese-American, African-American, Irish-American and so on.

I don't think you are right about the Chinese-American, African-American, etc. tags. I don't hear Americans introducing themselves like that unless prodded.

As for the Cali, Timbucktoo thing...Whether fair or not, many people recognize American states and cities pretty readily. I'm always amazed when I read an Aussie or UK paper and see places like Oregon or Illinois casually thrown into news stories without a point of reference. Putting New South Wales, for example, into a U.S. story without explanation just wouldn't work.

So if you introduce yourself as American, the next question is always: "where?" And in truth, sometimes you feel like you are insulting the other person with the simple "American" answer to that first question (in other words you are implying that he/she isn't familiar with the geography of the country whose president is the biggest national disgrace in extended memory). So you skip one step if you just say, for example, "Chicago." I'll betcha Americans asking Australians where they are from usually stop when they hear Australia because at best Sydney would be the only city they would be familiar with. Again, I am not saying this is fair.

Last time I was in Australia (two weeks ago) I saw where some of the TV channels pipe in delayed broadcasts of the Good Morning America and the Today Show. That blew me away. Why on earth?

[GomiGirl]

Maybe I just read too many blogs and on-line stuff where usually the first intros go something like this...

"Hi I'm Candice. I am a chinese-american from Austin TX." etc etc

I'll betcha Americans asking Australians where they are from usually stop when they hear Australia because at best Sydney would be the only city they would be familiar with. Again, I am not saying this is fair.

Sure most people know the general geography of the US - but I am usually not sure about the abbreviations of the state names. Again, please don't think I am criticising - it is just an observation as an non-american.

Maybe I just need to get out and meet more people in the real world..

[GomiGirl]

Last time I was in Australia (two weeks ago) I saw where some of the TV channels pipe in delayed broadcasts of the Good Morning America and the Today Show. That blew me away. Why on earth?

Cheaper to buy TV shows than to produce locally - especially on late-night TV. You can also see Letterman etc too.

There is heaps of US TV in Australia - I guess that is why there is that love-hate thing that goes on.. The culture is different but also similar which is why sometimes I ask questions like I have been..

[Kuang_Grade]

Why the need for the labels and qualifications? I am just curious as this seems to be a part of American culture to introduce yourself as where you are from (eg "I am from Cali", I am from "Timbucktoo") and my ancesters were from....so I am Chinese-American, African-American, Irish-American and so on.

Well, the US is an awfully big place and regionalisms are quite strong in most parts of the US, with some places like California and Texas taking to such a level that you might think they were part of a US commonwealth of nations rather than actual part of the US (although Texas was a technically a independent republic before it became a US state). Unlike many other countries, the federal system actually fairly weak in many regards, and most people interact with local or state authorities on a regular basis...not federal ones. So while we might all say we're Americans, most of us think of ourselves as I'm from X state and/or X Big Town. So saying where you are from is just standard background info that Americans often give out to one another, not just when they are overseas. It might not be the first thing out their mouths but it will likely be in the first couple of sentences.

As for the hyphenates, some are used more on personal level to describe family background and others are more used in a media level. You usually don’t see “Irish American" written in a newspaper unless the story is about, oh, an Irish-American society parade or something along those lines. You don’t see stories with headlines like “Who will get the Irish-American vote this fall?” in newspapers while you would likely see something like “Who will get the African-American vote this fall?” fairly often.

Hyphenated terms started to crop up in common usage in the media in the late 70-early 80's or so, when it was deemed that "black" was offensive. (I seem to remember some thinking along the lines that blacks did not choose to be immigrants but were rather imported as slaves, so they didn't choose to be Americans and therefore whitey should reminded of their African heritage fairly often). Of course, this can get a bit semantically odd when you are referring to people who were, you know, actually born in Africa and are now living in the US. At one of my previous jobs, I had quite a few coworkers from Sierra Leone and Nigeria and they thought this term was rather strange....they thought of US born blacks as just Americans with little to nothing in common with them except skin shade.

Also the various groups of Asian decent really didn't like getting lumped in the others Asian national groups, at least one of which they usually rather disliked ('I'm not Asian...I'm Korean!) But conversely, if you refer to someone of Chinese decent born in the US as Chinese or Korean (as a term of cultural identity), they'll quite put off because you are implying that they are not American but a foreigner. So the hyphen keeps gives the attempt of trying to keep everyone happy..but that said not everyone is really uptight about it on a personal level (as a friend once said to me, "Man, I'm an American, its my parents who are Korean) and whites, in the attempt to avoid picking the wrong one national group and suggesting someone of Korean decent is of, say, Japanese decent, often fall back to the global term 'Asian'....that or 'those dudes over there".

But there's no agreement about people from South and Central America...Some groups prefer using Hispanic while others use Latino and others say 'don't lump me in with those damn Mexicans, I'm a Salvadoran'...After a while, the phrase "of Spanish speaking decent" started to crop up as fairly global catch all term for people from Latin America (except of course, Brazilian immigrants who are of Portuguese speaking decent…but the US doesn’t have very many Brazilian immigrants so that inconstancy is ignored).

[Mulboyne]

Like GomiGirl, I was always struck by the way that Americans would routinely introduce themselves as being from the state rather than the country. I tended to assume that this was because Americans didn't get out much but, as I was meeting most of these people outside their own country, that explanation seemed unsatisfactory since I was probably meeting a fairly internationalized sample. The points Captain Japan and Kuang Grade raise are more illuminating.

I also notice that Americans introducing themselves in Japanese are more likely to say they are from Amerika. It may be that speaking another language switches something over in the brain or perhaps more simply that it's an easier word to pronounce and be understood by a Japanese listener compared with a state name.

I tend to tell people I'm British but, if I'm talking about football or rugby then it makes more sense to say I'm English because Britain competes in those sports under our four separate national identities. I find in Japan, though, that I'm more likely to say I'm from England in general conversation. The most common Japanese word for Britain is Igirisu which derives from the Portuguese word for England so that might be a factor. Also, Ingurando and gets understood more easily than Buriten. I virtually never use the more formal Eikoku. I'm curious how Tsuru introduces himself since I've always been told that Holland is a region of The Netherlands and so the latter is the more correct name.

On only a vaguely related note, here's a 1947 War Department film about being an American. It's over 17 minutes long, mind you.

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[GomiGirl]

Thank you Grade-sama - that is a great explanation!! Makes sense to me now.

[GuyJean]

Thank you Grade-sama - that is a great explanation!!..

Yes. It is.. I usually give my state information because I definitely don't want to be mistaken for a New Yorker..

GJ

[Captain Japan]

I also notice that Americans introducing themselves in Japanese are more likely to say they are from Amerika. It may be that speaking another language switches something over in the brain or perhaps more simply that it's an easier word to pronounce and be understood by a Japanese listener compared with a state name.

For me, that's a katakana issue. Transmorphing "Los Angeles" into acceptable katakana works rarely for me. More than 3 times I've had people think I said Washington D.C. "Amerika" is no problem.

[Mini_B]

You should say 'excuse me' to people when you bump in to them whether you are right or wrong. It's the polite thing to do. Pushing someone in the train, or gently nudging them as you said you did, is rude. Pushing a guy with cauliflower ears is plain stupid and justifies an ass whipping. Save yourself the trouble, keep your blood pressure down and do the right thing.

[American Oyaji]

KG, excellent explanation. However, there are a lot of Brazilians that come to the US, but they stick to the northeastern US for the most part. New York City/State and New England. I had to do research Brazillian immigrants for a report in college.

Also, the term black is offensive to some slavery descendants and African-American is offensive to others. There is no official concensus on that matter. Part of the issue is the influx of African immigrants and as they begin to have kids. The descendants of slaves don't want to be lumped together with the African immigrants and the immigrants don't want to be compared to the "lazy shiftless blacks" in America. There is a lot of dialog on the issue because they get their image of their American cousins from the media before they actually get here and experience the institutionalized racism.
Some slave-descendants in a conversation concerning themselves and the new African immigrants will refer to themselves as native African-Americans.
It's really screwed up. There is one good thing about the amount of African immigrants, it shows those here that the people holding them down the most is themselves because Africans come here and hustle and make a lot of money just like any other immigrant group. However they DO have the support of being able to retreat to their enclaves of familiar culture.
Slave descendants tried the same thing and had those attempts crushed or legislated out of existence. If there was a charismatic leader like we had in Malcom X or Martin Luther King to rally around, I think it would work in this modern day.

Anyway. Just more info on the matter. The new African immigrants do the same thing that asians do to keep from getting lumped into a mishmash. They claim the country they are from. Ghana, Somalia, Nigeria, etc...

[Iraira]

For me, that's a katakana issue. Transmorphing "Los Angeles" into acceptable katakana works rarely for me. More than 3 times I've had people think I said Washington D.C. "Amerika" is no problem.

Just give them a big, "I'm from Rohhhh-su!, home of the bodybag.". Maybe leave off the last part of that.

[Samurai_Jerk]

It seems like no matter what we call black Americans it ends up being offensive.

Nigger (aparently not originally offensive) > Negro > Colored > Afro-American > African-American > What's next?

I don't understand why so many people in the US have such a negative reaction to the word African-American though. No one seems to have the same reaction to words like Japanese-American or Irish-American.

I like what AO points out about the tension between African immigrants and blacks with a long history in the US. I remember in college a Japanese friend asked an African immigrant friend if he found the word nigger offenseive. He said he didn't because that's a term for blacks from the US and not for Africans like him. He basically looked at American blacks as a bunch of lazy stupid criminals. It was a real eye-opener for me.

Similar to that, is that way many Hispanics of African descent don't consider themselves black and don't want to be associated with American blacks. I learned that in junior high school when I moved to NYC. I'd hear people say things like, "I'm not black, I'm Dominican." As if you can't be both black and Dominican/Puerta Rican/Panamanian/etc.

Changing the topic, in the US it's not unusual to hear a person ask, "What are you?" Meaning, what ethnicity are you? How about in some of your countries?

As for saying the state I'm from, I've found that when I only say American people, no matter where they're from, almost always ask which state or where in the US. However, when I say the state to Japanese people they hardly ever know where it is. I'm not really sure what to say most of the time anyway, since I've moved so many times. These days I usually say where I was born and where I was right before I came.

[Taro Toporific]

[MrUltimateGaijin]

You should say 'excuse me' to people when you bump in to them whether you are right or wrong. It's the polite thing to do. Pushing someone in the train, or gently nudging them as you said you did, is rude. Pushing a guy with cauliflower ears is plain stupid and justifies an ass whipping. Save yourself the trouble, keep your blood pressure down and do the right thing.

if someone bumps into me and its their fault, as it usually is since jpeople cant tell if im real or a figment of their imagination, i like to give them the shoulder or elblow

[American Oyaji]

Most people avoid provoking me. Which is a good thing.

As for what SJ said about Dominicans. He's right. I try to tell them that no matter what they say they are (they claim they are Hispanic) their wide nose, brown skin and thick lips brands them as "black" in the eyes of white America.

And I was thinking about the word 'nigger'. I was watching "Cars" and there was a character called mater as in tow-mater and maybe nigger is similar. Maybe an ignorant southerner who couldn't pronounce English properly mangled the word Negro and it morphed in into nigger in the same way that the long 'O' sound becomes 'ER' down south a lot.

Just thinking.

[Behan]

You should say 'excuse me' to people when you bump in to them whether you are right or wrong. It's the polite thing to do. Pushing someone in the train, or gently nudging them as you said you did, is rude. Pushing a guy with cauliflower ears is plain stupid and justifies an ass whipping. Save yourself the trouble, keep your blood pressure down and do the right thing.

-------------------------------------------------
I agree that we should say 'excuse me' when we bump into people but I think you characterized what happened a little incorrectly:

"I nudge the back edge of his pack - just a nudge, hardly any sense of a push. No problem, get by, sit down in the center of a three seat row. ...
... I look forward, reading him out the corner of my eye. First thing I notice is the gorilla-like width of his neck. Neanderthal width. And then, shaven head and cauliflower ears, "
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I think the cauliflower ear was noticed later and it wasn't a push. The big guy should have had the sense to not block the door to a train. But, again, I agree about saying 'excuse me'.

[Samurai_Jerk]

As for what SJ said about Dominicans. He's right. I try to tell them that no matter what they say they are (they claim they are Hispanic) their wide nose, brown skin and thick lips brands them as "black" in the eyes of white America.

They are hispanic, but I don't know why they seem to think being hispanic and being black are mutually exclusive. Most blacks in North and South America are there for the same reason: the slave trade.

[ttjereth]

Why the need for the labels and qualifications? I am just curious as this seems to be a part of American culture to introduce yourself as where you are from (eg "I am from Cali", I am from "Timbucktoo") and my ancesters were from....so I am Chinese-American, African-American, Irish-American and so on.

This is not a criticism, just an observation and I am curious as to the reasoning. Most other nationalities just say, I am Fred from England, I am Miho from Japan or I am GomiGirl from Australia (eventhough my father is from England).... etc.

Sorry to reply to an old topic, but I just accidently ran across this thread while searching for something else and your question brought something to mind.

First off, for myself anyway, I know that I answer where I am from because in the U.S. a lot of people tend to consider their area to be very different from other areas and don't want to be confused for being from somewhere they aren't, or thought of us "being like those people".

An example, I'm from Philadelphia and wouldn't want to be mistaken for being from say Texas or California, cause everyone knows they're all weirdos there

But what this brought to mind is that I actually go through the opposite all the time. I ask someone from another country where they're from and they always respond with the country. Now I'm not an anthropology/geography genius or anything, but I can generally tell what country another westerner is from after having spoken to them a bit, so usually I am asking what part of their country they are from, which often seems to be unexpected.

Aussies and Brits in particular always seem surprised I am curious what area of their countries they are from.