Divorse with a J-Girl

[Mini_B]

Hey FG's! A friend of mine has a kid with his JP wife. She took off with the kid the other day and went to her parents. She's not in contact with him and she won't let him see his kid. She wants him to sign divorse papers but he's reluctant to sign them as he feels there is still a chance. Obviously she has different feelings.

What rights (if any) does my German friend have? Is she allowed to swipe the kid from him like that?

[AssKissinger]

If you spell it with a c and run it through the search engine you'll learn your friend is fucked.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Hey FG's! A friend of mine has a kid with his JP wife. She took off with the kid the other day and went to her parents. She's not in contact with him and she won't let him see his kid. She wants him to sign divorse papers but he's reluctant to sign them as he feels there is still a chance. Obviously she has different feelings.

What rights (if any) does my German friend have? Is she allowed to swipe the kid from him like that?

He should kidnap his kids back now and leave the country.

[Jack]

It is probably not allowed to swipe the kid away like that but no one will help your German friend. Does the kid have a Japanese last name? I ask because the Japanese consulate would not let my daughter carry my last name when we had her registered in Japan. It had to be a JAPANESE name (so the mother's) written in Japanese. If so, your friend is fucked.

[Mulboyne]

If you search these Forums for "divorce" (with a "c"), as AK suggests, or "custody" you'll find that your friend is not in a great position. The title of this thread may not seem especially relevant but it is one of the most recent discussions to touch on the issue. Your friend is obviously keen to get his marriage back together but even if he thinks that it is not going anywhere then he should resist her demands for a divorce if he wants to retain some rights with his child. It is the only real leverage he has. Also, if he is relying on a spouse visa to reside in Japan then he should be aware that he will lose that as soon as he is no longer married.

Whichever route he takes, either legal or personal, he should always be sure to come across as reasonable and concerned about everyone else's welfare no matter how much of a charade that may seem and no matter how angry or bitter he may feel at times. Any hostility on his part would be grounds for her and her parents or friends to feel completely justified in acting unreasonably in return. A family court or arbitrator would also have less sympathy with him.

[GuyJean]

If you spell it with a c and run it through the search engine you'll learn your friend is fucked.

Abduct them, take the kids to Germany, negotiate the divorce from there with a mediator and lawyer.. Or, get a work visa, negotiate the divorce here with a Yakuza mediator and lawyer..

Don't know about rules for Germans, but American 'double' kids can get both US and Japanese passports; do this, as soon as you can, after they're born; I think 3 months. Japanese passports can also 'include' the English last name in parentheses; for example 'Kenji Suzuki (Fuckface)'..

"Hi, I'm Franky Fuckface.. and this is my half-wit J-wife, Saiko Suzuki; she can't run away with my kids"..

GJ

[IdeaLab]

sorry to say this. but germany does not allow dual citizenship.


cheers,

m

[Tsuru]

Most European countries don't allow dual citizenship... however, the real question is whether and how it's enforced.

[GuyJean]

Most European countries don't allow dual citizenship... however, the real question is whether and how it's enforced.

I think I remember a friend telling me she had both US and British passports.. Or was it Canadian and British.. She's a really good friend.

Children with US and Japanese parents can have two passports until they're 18. (or 21; I'm not sure).. Then the kids must choose their citizenship..

GJ

[GuyJean]

[quote="GuyJean"]Don't know about rules for Germans, but American 'double' kids can get both US and Japanese passports] The process for having western last names in the Japanese passport is:

1 - get the US passport for the child first
2 - then apply for the Japanese passport using the US passport as part of the child's documentation
3 - be sure to request the western parenthetical last name when applying for the Japanese passport; probably on a few of the Japanese forms..

Actually, I'm not sure if this is much of a safety-net, but having your western last name somewhere on the child's official Japanese documents would seem to be beneficial..

GJ

[oyajikun]

Unless your intent is for your child to be able to keep dual citizenship for life.
Then you would want to have the western family name used on the foriegn passport, and the Japanese family name used on the Japanese passport.

Divorce.. thats touchy. Personally, I think I would just push her in front of a train on the way to the lawyers office.

[Captain Japan]

In today's Asahi there is a mention of a free consultation for foreign residents. It seems lawyers will be on hand to offer free advice on such things as visas, marriage, and divorce. It is from 1-4PM on Dec. 3. Location is the Chofu City Culture Hall Tazukuri. Fire off an email here for more info: cifa-t1309@jcom.home.ne.jp. Or call 042-41-6195.

[Tommybar]

Then you would want to have the western family name used on the foriegn passport, and the Japanese family name used on the Japanese passport.

[quote="GuyJean"]Children with US and Japanese parents can have two passports until they're 18. (or 21]

The longest you can have dual citizenship in Japan or the U.S. is 23. This age is arrived from 12 years general education and 4 years University (a dependent).

BUT there IS a loop hole. Unless you denounce your citizenship, you will always have it. I.E. You would have to go to the U.S.G. and denounce your U.S. citizenship in order to lose it. The same for the Japanese citizenship. If after your 23rd birthday you take no action, you continue to be a citizen of both countries. Therefore it is best to have a JN name on JN passport and U.S. name on U.S. passport.

[American Oyaji]

I ask because the Japanese consulate would not let my daughter carry my last name when we had her registered in Japan. It had to be a JAPANESE name (so the mother's) written in Japanese.

Did your wife keep her maiden name when you got married? That may be the reason. My kids were registered with MY last name in Katakana, but my wife had also taken on my last name as hers as well.

[GuyJean]

..Therefore it is best to have a JN name on JN passport and U.S. name on U.S. passport.

I'm not sure I understand.. This is best for dual-citizenship, or best for a divorce situation? Wouldn't having your western name printed in parentheses on the Japanese passport be advantageous when the J-wife tries to ditch with the kids?

GJ

[Tommybar]

Best for the child to provide the most options when the child is older. I thought we were talking about the best interests of the child. Not the wants and needs of selfish parents.

Because of racism in Japan and the U.S., a proper U.S. name on a U.S. passport and a proper JN name on a JN passport works best. It also avoids connecting the two at a later date.

As for divorce situations, the name on the JN passport will not help at all. Nor the fact that the child has a U.S. passport. Ditching with the kids is a JN wifes right here in Japan. Not often do the courts see it any other way. The wife does NOT need to prove support (the Japanese government will supply all requirements). It is the mans job to produce in the economy and the wifes job to take care of the children.

[GuyJean]

As for divorce situations, the name on the JN passport will not help at all. Nor the fact that the child has a U.S. passport. Ditching with the kids is a JN wifes right here in Japan..

I don't disbelieve you. In fact, you're probably right.. But it seems like there would be some legal avenues if the child was also considered to be a US citizen, with a US passport, and with the same last name of a US citizen..

GJ

[Tommybar]

It would be easy to prove you are the father in that your wife has a Tohon which shows you as her husband and would list any children you have with her. She would not be able to remove this information once it is on there.

[Mulboyne]

But it seems like there would be some legal avenues if the child was also considered to be a US citizen, with a US passport, and with the same last name of a US citizen..

It might seem that way but there's nothing I've seen so far to suggest that it has been of any help in these cases.

[Samurai_Jerk]

The longest you can have dual citizenship in Japan or the U.S. is 23.

You're wrong about that. Dual citizenship is allowed in the US regardless of age. In Japan you are supposed to choose when you become a legal adult at age 20. However, plenty of people never bother choosing and just keep both. I've met Japanese people in their late 20s that have both.

[GomiGirl]

[quote="GuyJean"]I think I remember a friend telling me she had both US and British passports.. Or was it Canadian and British.. She's a really good friend. ]

It was me - I have two passports!! British and Australian Dual citizen. That is why I talk funny.

[kurohinge1]

It was me - I have two passports!! British and Australian Dual citizen. That is why I talk funny.

No, it's 'cause you're a girl packing "24 inches" that you talk funny.

[dimwit]

[quote="kurohinge1"]No, it's 'cause you're a girl packing "24 inches" that you talk funny.

]

Which brings up a important -well perhaps not at all important question that I have been wondering about. If male singers who get castrated are referred to as castrati what would you call a female singer who gets added accessories?;)

[kurohinge1]

. . .If male singers who get castrated are referred to as castrati what would you call a female singer who gets added accessories?

[SIZE="5"]A Gallagher?[/SIZE]

[momotobananaoishii]

I have a related but unrelated question

I'm Canadian and my wife is Japanese.

We don't have any kids. I heard that mutual divorce is easy and that the man can remarry again immediately but the woman has to wait 6 months (because of possibility of carrying the previous husband's baby).

If my wife doesn't want to divorce what is the best way for me to divorce her besides trying to prove she's crazy.

Can I divorce in Canada by myself and bring those papers to Japan or something?

Thanks

[FG Lurker]

We don't have any kids. I heard that mutual divorce is easy

Yes, it is very easy. You fill out the form, both hanko it, and then you take it to the city/ward/village office and register the divorce.

and that the man can remarry again immediately but the woman has to wait 6 months (because of possibility of carrying the previous husband's baby).

Correct.

If my wife doesn't want to divorce what is the best way for me to divorce her besides trying to prove she's crazy.

If one partner does not agree to the divorce then it becomes a long drawn out process that can take years to complete. I suggest reading this page for more information:
http://www.debito.org/successstoriesjune2006.html

Can I divorce in Canada by myself and bring those papers to Japan or something?

Even if the process is drawn out as mentioned above I think you are better off to try to divorce her here. Canadian divorce laws in contested divorces are heavily stacked against men.

(Regarding her being crazy: All women are crazy, without exception. The only difference between one woman and another is the degree of craziness.)

[American Oyaji]

A wise older woman told me once that women are only sane half of the time.

The other half, they are ramping up to or down from a period.

[ttjereth]

Yes, it is very easy. You fill out the form, both hanko it, and then you take it to the city/ward/village office and register the divorce.

Yeah, but the mutal consent divorce (where you both just go fill out forms) isn't recognized in some countries and some U.S. states (Dunno about Canada).

http://tokyo.usembassy.gov/e/acs/tacs-7117.html

Q: Can Americans get a "Ward Office" divorce? A: Since January 1, 1990 Japanese law has allowed "mutual consent divorce" in cases where at least one spouse is a Japanese national. Thus, "mutual consent divorces" between American citizens and their Japanese citizen spouses are now legal in Japan.
As with marriage registration, the American spouse need not be physically present at the ward office to register the divorce providing that the registration documents have been properly signed and sealed beforehand by both parties.

Be warned, however, that the United States has no procedure for extra-judicial divorce and the legality of this procedure in various states in the U.S. is uncertain.

Probably not a problem unless the marriage is somehow registered in the U.S. Mine isn't, we haven't moved back, so I haven't had to apply for a spousal visa for my wife or anything yet, and everytime we visit she goes on a tourist visa.

Originally Posted by momotobananaoishii
and that the man can remarry again immediately but the woman has to wait 6 months (because of possibility of carrying the previous husband's baby).

Correct.

I have a book around here somewhere about various legalities of living in Japan for foreigners, and for some reason I thought I recalled it saying you had to wait a year before remarrying, but it might have been having to wait a year before being able to get another spousal visa with a different spouse. Anybody know more about this? I'll try and dig out the book later and find the applicable section.

[L S]

...I thought I recalled it saying you had to wait a year before remarrying, but it might have been having to wait a year before being able to get another spousal visa with a different spouse. Anybody know more about this?

momotobananaoishii is correct I think. In considering to divorce in US or Japan, an attorney in Tokyo said the same thing to me. But here is a more scholarly answer related to the history of women and divorce in Japan. Forgive the length...

From Inequality in Japanese Marriage and Divorce Laws in 2002, J. Sean Curtin (Professor, Japanese Red Cross University)

Article 14 of the 1947 Japanese constitution provides that "all of the people are equal under the law and there shall be no discrimination in political, economic or social relations because of race, creed, sex, social status or family origin." Article 15 enfranchised women and Article 24 gave them equality in matters of marriage and divorce. However, there are still some areas of gender disparity in the current marriage and divorce laws. Article 24 of the Japanese Constitution (1947) declares:
"Marriage shall be based only on the mutual consent of both sexes and maintained through mutual cooperation with the equal rights of husband and wife as a basis. (2) With regard to choice of spouse, property rights, inheritance, choice of domicile, divorce and other matters pertaining to marriage and the family, laws shall be enacted from the standpoint of individual dignity and the essential equality of the sexes."
Article 24 clearly says that equality and mutual respect should be the basis for marriage and divorce. Despite the stated aims, at the beginning of the Twenty-first Century there are still some elements of gender bias in the Civil Code. With regard to the marriage, Article 731 of the Civil Code states that "Males under eighteen years of age and females under sixteen years of age are not eligible for marriage." Today, many people believe that it is time to make the legal age of marriage equal for both men and women.
Perhaps the most contentious aspects of the current law is the ban on women re-marrying immediately after divorce (Civil Code Article 733). A man can remarry as soon as he divorces, but a woman has to wait six months. The original reasoning behind the half year interval was to minimize confusion and disputes arising over determining the paternity of any child born in the months following a divorce (Civil Code Article 772). In 1947, contraceptives were unreliable and DNA tests non-existent, giving some justification for this measure. However, by the nineties and beyond, this stipulation seemed positively anachronistic.
From a strictly scientific standpoint, DNA testing can reliably determine parenthood which makes Article 733 redundant. Moreover, during the nineties, the courts themselves were allowing DNA tests to be used in divorce related cases involving disputed lineage. One such illustrative case was a 1994 paternity dispute at the Oita District Court that was based around DNA evidence. During an earlier 1992 divorce suit, a former wife had revealed that her 26 year old son was not her ex-husbands biological child. This caused the father to initiate the 1994 petition.* This case also clearly demonstrates that there is nothing to stop a woman having another man's child while married, which further erodes the relevance of Article 733.
Despite scientific advances, the Supreme Court upheld the legitimacy of Article 733 in a 5 December 1995 ruling (Supreme Court Third Petty Bench Decision 1563 Hanji 81). The litigation was brought by a couple from Hiroshima prefecture whose marriage registration had been rejected in December 1988 because of the six month rule. This meant that the couple were unable to formally adopt the women's children by her previous marriage and had to wait until June 1989 when the marriage was legally recognized. In the original ruling, the Hiroshima district court rejected the couples' argument that the six month waiting period violated the constitution. The court said that its decision was based on the fact that "only women can become pregnant" and therefore Article 733 did not infringe equality under the constitution. The constitutionality of this provision was later upheld by the Hiroshima High Court on 28 November 1991. The Supreme Court also concurred with the lower court's decision and the six month ban still remains in force in 2002.
The 1995 Supreme Court decision angered women's rights campaigners who questioned the legitimacy and relevance of the article in the high-tech nineties. Since the decision, some judicial experts have argued that the waiting period should be shortened to a hundred days while others have said the article should be completely removed from the Civil Code. Despite the legal debate and scientific advances, the government has made no plans to revise or abolish the article.
Legally disputed biological relationships are clearly best resolved by accurate scientific means rather than by cumbersome legislative measures. The need for women to have to wait six months longer than men to remarry seems hard to justify. Marriage is the foundation stone of the Japanese family and should be built on equitable laws. Some lawmakers point out that Japan is not alone amongst developed countries in having unequal marriage and divorce codes.** However, it would be a positive step towards creating a more egalitarian society if outdated statutes were abolished and men and women were treated equally under the law.

[momotobananaoishii]

ok so what I need to find out from any Canadians here is if a mutual divorce in Japan is recognized in Canada.

Any Canadians been divorced from a Jnat? :P

Also What do you mean your marriage is not registered in the US? I thought as soon as you get married in Japan the paper work is sent to your home country for registration as well.

And I also need to find out if I can apply for another spouse visa after the divorce or do I have to wait a year or whatever like you mentioned above. Although that won't matter if I currently have a 3 year spouse visa.