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  • fuckedgaijin ‹ General ‹ Tokyo Tech ‹ Computers & Internet

iMac 20" Core Duo -- Buy or not?

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Postby mr. sparkle » Wed Nov 29, 2006 6:48 am

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GJ, it's good you passed up the Core Duo iMac. The Core "2" Duo is waaay faster.

Charles wrote:Hmm.. I thought the Minis were upgraded to
at least 2Ghz. So the iMac is still way out ahead in speed, at up to 2.33Ghz rather than the Mini topping out at 1.83.

They're very snappy Charles. Go test drive any Intel Core2 Duo rig at an Apple store.

Anyway, iMac upgradeability may not be such an issue anymore, as I've heard that all the Intel Macs have the CPU chip in a socket rather than soldered, so it might be possible to replace the chip with a faster model. This might extend an iMac's useful life.

That would be icing on the cake, for sure!

One other interesting tidbit I came across, Ars Technical says the 24in iMac has the same screen rez as the 23in Cinema Display, it's just a little less dense as it's spread out over 24in rather than 23in. Interesting.

That thing is sweet, but for the same price as a MacPro, I am gonna hold off. Full blown, they're well over 2 G's.

But seriously GJ, you deserve a Mac Pro. Quad CPUs are awesome.

Waiting for 8 Proc Mayhem from Clovertown, baby! ]Splurge. You know you want to.[/QUOTE]
I needed a stopgap Intel rig while I wait for 2nd gen MacPros to come out, so, guess what? I just bought an iMac. :-)

I needed something sorta cheap that I could use to cut together small projects, a new demo reel and for testing software for the purpose of writing articles (one of the ways I get paid).

I generally recommend against the iMac, especially if you want one with a big screen. What you're buying is basically a modest CPU welded to the back of a Cinema Display.

Even a small iMac is waaaay more powerful than you might think. In some cases, it even smokes a G5 dual 2. Awesome!

You will probably want to upgrade your CPU long before you even think about upgrading your LCD display. But with an iMac, you can't really upgrade the CPU, so a couple of years down the line you've got a nice big LCD with a boat anchor attached to it.

Yeah. I hope I can mod the CPU.

So my pick would be a nice Mini and a Cinema Display. Later on you can upgrade the Mini to something newer and faster, and your investment in the display won't go to waste.

Dude. I don't agree. I walked into the Apple Store thinkin' Mini, too. But the Apple Store guy reminded me, "If you want to run Motion (which I just love) or Studio, then the cheapest route is a 17" iMac 2Gzh with a 1GB of RAM. It has a better video card than the base 17 and it's got 4MB of L2 cache, not 2. It's all you need."

He was right. For around a grand, I can now hold out for the next generation tower and tool around with Motion. What a gas.
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Postby FG Lurker » Wed Nov 29, 2006 4:53 pm

Might be picking up a MacBook Pro tonight -- the Core 2 Duo 2.16GHz / 15.4" model.

I've been looking around at various different machines and it fits pretty closely what I would like, although at about 50,000yen more than I really wanted to pay. Meh, only money.

If I do get it, it will be my first Mac in.....15 years.
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Postby FG Lurker » Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:34 pm

Well, I am officially a MacBook Pro owner! Ended up getting the 15.4" 2.33GHz Intel Core 2 Duo one with 2GB of memory though. So I'm now 30man poorer and the owner of a killer computer that I have no idea how to use! :D Time for some study.

If anyone has ideas I'd love to hear them.
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Postby Kuang_Grade » Thu Nov 30, 2006 4:19 am

FG Lurker wrote:If anyone has ideas I'd love to hear them.


I've found the 'missing manual' line of books for OS X and ilife quite useful in figuring out those things I knew how do on a PC but wasn't apparently Mac enough to intutively know how to do them on a Mac.
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Postby GuyJean » Thu Nov 30, 2006 5:02 am

FG Lurker wrote:Ended up getting the 15.4" 2.33GHz Intel Core 2 Duo one with 2GB of memory though.
Cool! I think you made a nice choice. I've been eyeballing that system for awhile, and I think it'll prove to be a good system into the future..

Ideas? Press and poke.. The Support section of the Apple website is fairly helpful.. PhotoBooth is fun for the kids.. If you plan on doing any video, get an external HD.. Fuck around with GarageBand..

Oh, MacSurfer has a lot of lively links to Apple info; check the 'Reviews/How-To/Tutorials/Tips' section every now and then ..

Enjoy!

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Postby FG Lurker » Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:37 am

This week has been too damn busy so I haven't had that much time to play yet. Starting to though.

I'd like to put on some sort of antivirus software. Eventually there will be OSX viruses and I don't wish to wait until after that day arrives.

So...What is the most stable, least resource-hogging Mac antivirus software?
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Postby FG Lurker » Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:41 am

Maybe I just answered my own question...?

http://www.clamxav.com/
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Postby Taro Toporific » Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:34 pm

FG Lurker wrote:Maybe I just answered my own question...?

http://www.clamxav.com/


Yes. Most Mac people have found that paying for resource-sucking Norton is not really any better than free Clamxav. Norton does run faster than Clamxav, but so what?! I leave my computer for dinner with Clamxav running and come back to find it clean after a couple hours.

Sadly, neither Norton for OS X or Clamxav looks for spyware on the Mac very effectively because there isn't enough research on Mac spyware in the wild --- It may exist but there aren't any problems, yet. :-|

The built-in firewall of OS X is damn tough and can keep most nasties out but prudent folks use a sniff-&-announce firewall, the favorite and easiest is LittleSnitch.
LittleSnitch will tell you when crappy applications like PhotoShop try to "phone home" to the mothership. It also announces/blocks spyware-like trojans, worms, and other network parasites from sending information over the Internet.
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Postby mr. sparkle » Sun Dec 03, 2006 7:24 am

FG Lurker wrote:Well, I am officially a MacBook Pro owner! Ended up getting the 15.4" 2.33GHz Intel Core 2 Duo one with 2GB of memory though. So I'm now 30man poorer and the owner of a killer computer that I have no idea how to use! :D Time for some study.

If anyone has ideas I'd love to hear them.

Kick ass dude! I hope you like it. As I posted on the other thread, if you want to run XP on your Mac, I can recommend Parallels. Boot Camp is free, but the workflow is way better with Parallels as you do not have to reboot.

Get a USB MIDI keyboard so you can jam with GarageBand. Have fun.
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Postby GuyJean » Sun Dec 03, 2006 7:47 am

mr. sparkle wrote:As I posted on the other thread, if you want to run XP on your Mac, I can recommend Parallels. Boot Camp is free, but the workflow is way better with Parallels as you do not have to reboot.
Looks like Parallels is about to get even better..

Parallels Preps Major Update to Windows Virtualization Software
http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2276
.. Another major enhancement in the new version -- labeled Parallels Desktop for Mac Beta Build 3036 -- will allow a pre-installed Apple Boot Camp partition with Windows XP to be used as a virtual hard disk drive. Users of the software will be able to boot from that Boot Camp partition directly from within Parallels Desktop, forgoing a restart.

Build 3036 will also allow the main Parallels Desktop window to be resized like any other Mac application window and the Windows interface will instantaneously auto-adjust its screen resolution to match the new window size.

Another long awaited feature slated to make its debut is "seamless drag-and-drop" of files and folders between Windows and Max OS X. Along the same lines, a feature called "coherency," will display Windows applications as if they were Mac ones. ..
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Postby FG Lurker » Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:00 am

$20 off right now too:
http://www.parallels.com/announcement/desktop/4/
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Postby mr. sparkle » Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:44 am

FG Lurker wrote:$20 off right now too:
http://www.parallels.com/announcement/desktop/4/

Speculation is that Leopard will have "Parallels-like" functionality built in. That's cool, but why wait. ;-)
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Postby FG Lurker » Mon Dec 04, 2006 9:33 am

[quote="mr. sparkle"]Speculation is that Leopard will have "Parallels-like" functionality built in. That's cool, but why wait. ]
Interesting...

For $59 though (or even $79) it's a steal... Have it installed on the Mac now and will be setting up WinXP later today.

I'm sloooowly getting used to working on the Mac but it is definitely taking time to adjust.
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Postby American Oyaji » Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:16 am

[quote="mr. sparkle"]Speculation is that Leopard will have "Parallels-like" functionality built in. That's cool, but why wait. ]

When will Leopard come out?

I'm gonna buy my first new comp in 8 years next month.
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Postby FG Lurker » Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:44 am

American Oyaji wrote:When will Leopard come out?

I was just wondering about that too. One of the things that pushed me in the direction of a Mac was "Time Machine" after hearing about it here on FG -- I didn't realize it wasn't in the current version of the OS! Guess I'll be buying Leopard when it comes out...

I think the expected release date is Spring 2007. That could be anywhere from March to June, but I've seen "end of 2Q 2007" written as well, so maybe we're looking more towards June than March. :(
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Postby KanpaiQuigley » Mon Dec 04, 2006 12:06 pm

I'm confused...

Isn't the point of a Mac that it's NOT Windows? I despise Windows since becoming a Mac OS user.
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Postby FG Lurker » Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:11 pm

KanpaiQuigley wrote:I'm confused...

Isn't the point of a Mac that it's NOT Windows? I despise Windows since becoming a Mac OS user.

I agree, you are confused: Computers and religion are not the same thing.

I bought a Mac for a few reasons:
  • Somewhat surprisingly it is good value for the money. It is cheaper than an equivalent ThinkPad Z61. The ThinkPad has some advantages (such as a docking station and a pointing stick), but overall the MacBook Pro was better value for the money.
  • Curiosity about Mac OS X.
  • Cool features such as Time Machine.
  • The ability to run both OS X and Windows on one machine without having to use emulation or resort to questionable hacks.
  • Apple's great industrial design.
  • Overall unhappiness with Microsoft's attitude towards their customers.

If you're still stuck in the world of OS Religion then I pity you. Maybe when you grow up and leave High School you will see that there is more to life. Or maybe not -- some people never seem to learn.
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Postby Charles » Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:13 pm

American Oyaji wrote:When will Leopard come out?

I'm gonna buy my first new comp in 8 years next month.

Earliest possible Leopard ship date is at the Macworld conference, Jan 9-12 2007. It is unlikely Leopard will be ready in time, judging from the quality of the betas I'm getting through the Developer channel. But there is always a chance Apple will surprise everyone.

You should postpone any new Mac purchases until after Macworld, that's when Apple usually announces new models and upgrades.
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Postby KanpaiQuigley » Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:00 pm

FG Lurker wrote:I agree, you are confused: Computers and religion are not the same thing.

I bought a Mac for a few reasons:
  • Somewhat surprisingly it is good value for the money. It is cheaper than an equivalent ThinkPad Z61. The ThinkPad has some advantages (such as a docking station and a pointing stick), but overall the MacBook Pro was better value for the money.
  • Curiosity about Mac OS X.
  • Cool features such as Time Machine.
  • The ability to run both OS X and Windows on one machine without having to use emulation or resort to questionable hacks.
  • Apple's great industrial design.
  • Overall unhappiness with Microsoft's attitude towards their customers.
If you're still stuck in the world of OS Religion then I pity you. Maybe when you grow up and leave High School you will see that there is more to life. Or maybe not -- some people never seem to learn.


Are you serious? Get that bug out of your ass, dude.

I'm not in any world of anything, especially some kind of religion. I'm not a computer nerd. I don't even know half of what you're talking about. I just don't understand why someone would buy a Mac and then use Windows as their os. I wasn't being sarcastic.

I got a Mac because I wanted a laptop and I got a great deal on an iBook. Friends at college (not "High School") also highly recommended making the switch. I was also fed up with my windows PC's short shelf-life and tendency to become infected. I was also curious.

Since making the switch, I would never want to go back to Windows, because I love OS X. It's so much more user friendly and easy to use. Hot corners, dashboard, widgets, garageband, iphoto... One mouse button ;)

You senior FG's are the most confrontational fucks ever, huh? Maybe I shouldn't come to Japan - I wouldn't want to lose my charming personality and get all cranky :D

Just kidding...
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Postby FG Lurker » Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:22 pm

KanpaiQuigley wrote:I just don't understand why someone would buy a Mac and then use Windows as their os.

Because it is a tool, and sometimes one system is better than another for a certain task. Us folks in the real world have to get things done.

KanpaiQuigley wrote:I got a Mac because I wanted a laptop and I got a great deal on an iBook. Friends at college (not "High School")

There isn't much difference, neither are connected to reality.

KanpaiQuigley wrote:You senior FG's are the most confrontational fucks ever, huh? Maybe I shouldn't come to Japan

Be my guest. Not like you'll be missed. (And yes, I did get the just kidding addition -- I just don't care.)
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Postby FG Lurker » Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:31 pm

American Oyaji wrote:I'm gonna buy my first new comp in 8 years next month.

BTW, what are you going to get AO?
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Postby FG Lurker » Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:08 am

Parallels is very nice!! I set up XP on it last night I'm very pleased with it.

Also saw the new beta running on a friend's MacBook. Looks good as well but there are various problems with trying to run bootcamp XP through Parallels. The biggest of these is that you must re-activate Windows because from the OS's perspective it has moved to a completely different set of hardware. You have 3 days to do that so I guess as long as you reboot into bootcamp at least once every 3 days so it can reset itself everything should be okay. Software being tied to specific hardware really, really sucks.
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Parallels....Aiiiight.

Postby mr. sparkle » Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:41 am

FG Lurker wrote:Parallels is very nice!! I set up XP on it last night I'm very pleased with it.

Hell yeah. It cube-spins my desktop around like it's just another "User". So it is totally disarming and at the same time liberating to shuffle back and forth between worlds.

Unlike our friend, and as a Mac hardcore and Cupertino Native, I think it's waaaaaay cooler to have XP on your Mac via Parallels than not to. Hey. Ya live=ya learn.

It's freakin' badass, 'cause now I can get vid games cheaper, run my accounting software and share docs like a MoFo. I'm thinking about running the Adobe CS2 Suite on the XP "User" (grin) side so I can run After Effects on my iMac. All kiiiiiiinds of killer possibilties come into play. I can even see how my website looks on the PC side. How in the world else could I do that with such ease?

Boot Camp suxx. Fook that. I spent the dough so I can pass on my crappy underpowered PC to my junior high neice. She will be deLIGHTED I am sure.

So you like the Bluetooth integration? It works well with my Razor. My Razor does mess with my remote speakers though, so I turn it off at work.

Leopard? My guess is March. Sorry you thought Time Machine was a current feature. I can see how you got outta whack. Future features are not usually announced in such detail. Steve even gave up the wireless TV thang iTV. So you can wait for Leopard, and it will operate nearly identically to Tiger, except for the new kewl stuff.

For AO, I recommend an iMac. I have one and it is so much fun. The 20 inch model would be cool, but get the 24 if you can afford it as it can double as a nice display for movies in a small room.

If you need portability, then a new MacBook would be really cool too.

Just make sure you get a gig of RAM at the very least and stay away from the very bottom iMac. I'd also stay away from the Mini.
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Postby GuyJean » Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:29 pm

mr. sparkle wrote:Hell yeah. It cube-spins my desktop around like it's just another "User". So it is totally disarming and at the same time liberating to shuffle back and forth between worlds..
This screencast shows drag-n-drop and copying between both worlds..

http://mirror.video.blip.tv/MichaelVerdi-Parallels367.mov

from HERE.

Pretty cool!..

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Postby FG Lurker » Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:02 pm

GuyJean wrote:This screencast shows drag-n-drop and copying between both worlds..

http://mirror.video.blip.tv/MichaelVerdi-Parallels367.mov

from HERE.

Pretty cool!..

I saw that last night too, very slick.

I wonder how long until Apple buys Parallels...?
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Postby American Oyaji » Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:45 pm

FG Lurker wrote:I wonder how long until Apple buys Parallels...?


They better buy it before M$ does. Remember Virtual PC?

Anyway, I think I'll get a Macbook. I need a portable.

Then I'll save my money and get a Mac Pro beastie *drool*

Any word on Parallels running on a Macbook? Or would I need to go pro?
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Postby Greji » Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:37 pm

"There are those that learn by reading. Then a few who learn by observation. The rest have to piss on an electric fence and find out for themselves!"- Will Rogers
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Postby FG Lurker » Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:06 pm

GB, have you seen how massive those things are? They don't really qualify as "portable" unless you have your own porter to carry it -- or are built like Schwarzenegger used to be:
Image

That's the main reason I got the 15" instead.
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Postby Greji » Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:53 pm

FG Lurker wrote:GB, have you seen how massive those things are? They don't really qualify as "portable" unless you have your own porter to carry it -- or are built like Schwarzenegger used to be:
Image

That's the main reason I got the 15" instead.


Naw, that's what my wife is for!

Actually because I got the new black Macbook the other day, that's my portable, and I will use the pro primarily at my desk, but it still has the mobility I occasionally need when I have to go to outlying locations where I need my main work access and files.

I will also keep my old toilet seat around for when GJ drops by and wants to use something newer than his stuff!
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Postby GuyJean » Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:56 am

gboothe wrote:I will also keep my old toilet seat around for when GJ drops by and wants to use something newer than his stuff!
:cool:
:D You have a nice system, GB.. And a good plan. I had the same idea; MacBook for the real portable. MBP 17" for the 'relatively' portable editing station.. The thing is a beast. I'm surprised the HD is at 4200 though. They still make HD that speed? ;) .. I guess it's built for longevity..

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