Electronic dictionaries

[MrUltimateGaijin]

im using the nintendo ds, anyone else?

[QwertyJPC]

I ordered the Canon wordtank G90. It seems pretty good, with a stylus(kanji input) and a bunch of dictionaries, and a jump feature too.

http://www.thejapanshop.com/product.php?productid=16668&cat=23&page=1

[emperor]

I use a Sharp PW-A8700 and it's always satsified my needs.
The only thing missing is a backlight.
Probably similar spec to the 8400 I guess.

I have DSlite but never really considered getting the dictionary software:
is it any good?

[Hanakuso]

Yeh the DS dictionary software seems pretty good although i have little basis for comparison and it is definately designed for Japanese users i.e. you gotta get your kanji strokes in pretty damn fast or you end up entering the wrong thing... and since your looking up kanji you dont know... Im sure ill get more use out of it in the future when I become a genius at Japanese.

While im still a relative noob though what i really need is a dictionary that I can type in an English word and get a furigana translation... anyone know of a model capable of this?

[GomiGirl]

While im still a relative noob though what i really need is a dictionary that I can type in an English word and get a furigana translation... anyone know of a model capable of this?

This one does that..

[Hanakuso]

GG, if i lived in Japan permanently enough to have a decent ketai I just might take you up on your plug there.

Anyway, encase anyone is interested ill let you know what ive found from my searching so far. As far as It seems, there are no electronic dictionaries that have furigana... what they do have though is a "jump" function. For those who are unaware, "jump" allows you (among other things) to find the hiragana meaning of kanji.

At first I was checking out the cannons as they can be utilised via an english menu. The problem though with the cannons is that when you use "jump" you can only find the meanings of single kanji and this is useless for the kanji illiterate as they have too many readings to single out which one ought to be used with a given kanji combination.

The seiko and casio dictionaries however have a "super jump" function which will tell you the hiragana reading of a string of kanji, which is only a tiny bit less convenient than if they had furigana.

My decision now will probably be between these two makes, although its possible there are others capable of what I described above. The 470 that Mr. Lurker mentioned might be the very thing.

[Charles]

...As far as It seems, there are no electronic dictionaries that have furigana...

That's ridiculous, furigana is a common feature.

[Hanakuso]

Charles!.... is that the zaurus? common feature? do you know of others apart from the one in your screenshot? ? ??

[Samurai_Jerk]

At first I was checking out the cannons as they can be utilised via an english menu. The problem though with the cannons is that when you use "jump" you can only find the meanings of single kanji and this is useless for the kanji illiterate as they have too many readings to single out which one ought to be used with a given kanji combination.

Not true. I have a Cannon Wordtank G55. You have to hit the jump button twice and then you use the arrow key to highlight a whole word as opposed to just one character.


Charles, Hanakuso is right in that the dictionaries sold in Japan tend not to have a furigana function as they're designed for locals.

[Hanakuso]

OOooh... Arigato S.J. Well I guess wordtank is back on the cards again... apart from that one thing I was pretty impressed with them.

Do you know if they ended up making a full English manual for that model?

[Samurai_Jerk]

OOooh... Arigato S.J. Well I guess wordtank is back on the cards again... apart from that one thing I was pretty impressed with them.

Do you know if they ended up making a full English manual for that model?

Not sure. They gave me one for an earlier model when I bought it at Bic Camera but it's basically the same, so I haven't had any trouble using it.

[Charles]

Charles!.... is that the zaurus? common feature? do you know of others apart from the one in your screenshot? ? ??

These are scans of my old dicts, the first one is a Canon Wordtank and the second one is a Zaurus. I forget the model numbers but these are both discontinued.

The last time I looked in stores when I was in Tokyo (a year or so ago) I didn't have any trouble finding e-dicts with furigana. The problem is, you need to know where to look for it. Note that there is no single dictionary in these machines, there are EJ, JE, kokugo, and kanwa dictionaries. There is no point in having furigana in places like a kanwa (kanji lookup), you need furigana in the EJ and kokugo jiten. You need to find the readings of a jukugo when you're reading a Japanese text, you usually don't need the furigana when you're composing Japanese or translating E to J.
I find my Wordtank most useful when writing Japanese, I try not to use jukgo that I'm not familiar with, so I usually know the reading, so I can just tap out the kana on the Wordtank keyboard and check the proper kanji.
OTOH I find the Zaurus much more useful when reading Japanese text. I encounter a jukugo I don't know the reading or the meaning, I write it out and quickly get the furigana in the kokugo jiten. If I don't understand the definition in Japanese, one tap will jump me to the English definition.

I recently saw a review of some new super duper e-dict, I was intrigued as it has a keyboard and a little input pad so you can write kanji with a stylus. But alas I didn't note the model or maker, as I am pretty satisfied with my 2 electronic dictionaries (and my 20 or so paper dictionaries). But I will keep an eye out for that review, or any model that might have what you need.

Charles, Hanakuso is right in that the dictionaries sold in Japan tend not to have a furigana function as they're designed for locals.

What, you think every nihonjin knows the reading of every single word in the Japanese language, and never needs to look in a dictionary? My Zaurus pic w/furigana comes from the kokugo jiten, which is targeted at native speakers.

[Samurai_Jerk]

What, you think every nihonjin knows the reading of every single word in the Japanese language, and never needs to look in a dictionary? My Zaurus pic w/furigana comes from the kokugo jiten, which is targeted at native speakers.

No, I don't think that the locals know all the readings which is why there is a jump feature on many dictionaries. However, I spent a long time shopping around Tokyo for an electronic dictionary and I don't remember coming across one with furigana.

[Charles]

However, I spent a long time shopping around Tokyo for an electronic dictionary and I don't remember coming across one with furigana.

I found several within just a few searches of the web:



Here are screen shots of the Sony EBR-S8MS, note the right image that has readings aside the jukuo (not quite furigana above a word, but serving the same function).



I could probably find furugana or some format of kana glosses in almost any dict. Alas, the manufacturers don't put many screen shots online so it can be hard to tell which e-dicts are best.

[GomiGirl]

What, you think every nihonjin knows the reading of every single word in the Japanese language, and never needs to look in a dictionary? My Zaurus pic w/furigana comes from the kokugo jiten, which is targeted at native speakers.

As somebody that makes dictionaries for a living, I can tell you that kanji dictionaries do NOT show the kana readings as standard if the product is aimed at native japanese speakers. This is true across the board for the major dictionaries on the market - both electronic and paper.

However, IMHO they are a valuable addition to all products for both the native and non-native speakers alike and I like to include them in mine.

The native speaker will usually use an alternative reading for jukugo they don't actually know the readings of to search on. But non-native speakers don't usually have this ability as we have not had the same exposure to kanji.

[Hanakuso]

None of the ones i looked at today had furigana, but I cant say i was exactly compitent with the controls on most of them... might be a toggle button for furigana on/off. There were no sony's there, will check those out.

Charles are the ones you have standard japanese models... perhaps there are some designed for the gaijin market??

[Charles]

As somebody that makes dictionaries for a living, I can tell you that kanji dictionaries do NOT show the kana readings as standard if the product is aimed at native japanese speakers. This is true across the board for the major dictionaries on the market - both electronic and paper.

Are you talking kokugo jiten or kanji dictionaries here?

Here's a paper kokugojiten targeted at Japanese high school kids:

Here's one that's targeted more at Japanese adults:

In these dicts, it is less useful to call this furigana, as the dictionary headwords are the readings, in kana order. You can't find the entry without knowing the reading, which you would presumably get from a kanji dict.

This is a kanji dict:

I suppose we can call those entries furigana, even though they're in romaji. But this dict is obviously targeted at Japanese second language learners. So let's find something targeted not just at native speakers, but highly educated native speakers who know Classical Japanese.

Again the headword is in kana, serving as the furigana over the kanji entry, in a fashion. Note the little tiny two-column tategaki furigana interspersed through the definition. I particularly love the eccentric typesetting in this entry.

Well, I could go on, but if you want more information on dictionary methods and conventions, I put a whole website together with about a dozen well-known dictionaries representing almost the whole range of features.

[Charles]

Charles are the ones you have standard japanese models... perhaps there are some designed for the gaijin market??

These were standard Japanese models, bought in Japan. Some Zaurus units were sold at that time in the US and Europe, but stripped of all Japanese language features. Now the Zaurus is only sold in Japan, and their dictionary features are a bit different.
The Wordtank is well known for having a switch to turn on english menus, as an accommodaton to English speaking Japanese second language students, but still, this model is primarily sold to Japanese native speakers.

[Charles]

OK, I found those reviews of some new denshi jiten.

The Sharp PW-AT750 looks like hot stuff. It has a keyboard AND pen input, I've never seen this in any previous dictionary. Here's a review, alas in Japanese only. It clearly shows the dictionaries have furigana in the kokugo jiten, but I have been unable to find any pictures of the waei jiten, which is probably what students care about the most. Also this unit is pretty expensive, MSRP 52,500Y. But these machines are usually heavily discounted, Amazon Japan sells it for 29,800Y.

Another top-end unit is the Seiko SR-G10000. This machine seems to be the King of denshi jiten, it has all the features anyone could want, with the exception of pen input. It has the equivalent of furigana for readings in the waei jiten:

And even better, it has the New Kenkyusha EJ and JE dictionaries, these are my favorite reference books and I use them constantly.
Now get ready for the sticker shock: MSRP 90,000Y. Amazon Japan sells it for 64,000Y.

[Hanakuso]

Thanks Charles, Ill check those out too... Ya know, when your not Aussie bashing you're aaaaaaalright... :P

[FG Lurker]

You should check out kakaku.com for better prices than Amazon has. Not all shops listed there have stock when they say they do so it can be a good idea to call. Also watch shipping charges -- sometimes a shop is a couple hundred yen cheaper than another but shipping prices are higher.

Chuck isn't a bad guy when he's not blabbering on about his religion, his crazy family, how most excellent he is at this or that, or his rabid hatred of Australians... If you can look past all that then you'll like him just fine.

[Hanakuso]

haha, thanks for the tipS

[vitellus]

I am also looking to buy an electronic dictionary and I have a couple of questions.

First what do you think of using the Nintendo DS as an electronic dictionary as mentionned by another user previously?

Second, is there any electronic dictionary that comes close to what wwwjdic has to offer? I mean when I think of an electronic dictionary, I'm really thinking of a mobile wwwjdic with a keyboard...(excluding my keitai).

[gomichild]

The Nintendo DS rocks as an electronic dictionary. The writing recog is much better than any other electronic dictionary I've used. Plus the dictionary software has quizzes and stuff you can do.

Plus when you are sick of studying you can use the DS to play other stuff.

[Hanakuso]

DS jiten certainly has its good points... I would reccomend it if you have a pretty good command of the Japanese language. The stylus input would be fine if you are intuitive with the stroke order of new kanji.*actually the amount of times I have to repeat trying to write it into the damn thing helps me memorise the kanji a little*. Dont rely on it for english to Japanese translations unless you know shiteloads of Kanji too, the jump feature on it only will jump to english words.

I had a look at that sharp AT750. Wasnt at all impressed with the stylus imput thing *when compared to the DS* and I didnt notice furigana anywhere.

At this stage Im thinking Canon wordtank G70. Its way cheaper than the Seiko SR-G10000 *top of the line* and uses a lot of the same dictionaries without having too much shit that you dont need in it. The stylus which you cant even use to write kanji into it seems to be the only useless feature *although i could be mistaken*. It seems to have a pretty good kanji look up system too.

[QwertyJPC]

I disagree. To practice writing kanji, you need the tactile feedback of a pen or pencil running across paper. People always come up with "innovative" ideas like the Magnedoodle tablet or whiteboard & markers, but they just don't do the job properly.

What you need is a pad of lined paper and a mechanical pencil. Turn the pad on its side so the lines run vertical, that's better practice since most people tend to write with more improper variation horizontally rather than vertically. You really need a writing instrument with a point, because there are tons of little calligraphic tricks you need to know. For example, many times you need a little hook at the end of a stroke, or you need to draw a second stroke with its starting point on another line. It's almost impossible to do these little tricks with a smooth surface like a Magnedoodle or a whiteboard. Jeez it's hard to describe this stuff, it would be easier to show you, it would take 2 seconds.

Well, I guess I can show you a little bit. I scanned a few lessons on calligraphy and put them up on a web page. Note that most calligraphy is oriented towards use of a brush, I've seen a lot of students who practice with a brush or brush-pen and it is absolutely counterproductive. But several illustrations on my web page are done in pen, it's from a book about "pen-ji" (writing with a pen) and I guarantee this sort of skill is about a thousand times more useful and practical than fooling around with a brush.

I've been wondering about this post a lot. Is it possible to learn soushou and goushou on your own, using the 2 books posted on the site, or should it be learned from a teacher? I am going to learn shodo next semester, but I already know she ain't gonna be teaching gyousho or sousho.

[Charles]

I've been wondering about this post a lot. Is it possible to learn soushou and goushou on your own, using the 2 books posted on the site, or should it be learned from a teacher? I am going to learn shodo next semester, but I already know she ain't gonna be teaching gyousho or sousho.

The two books I posted will not teach you gyoushou or soushou through self-study. You need to learn to walk before you can run. You will spend a long time and many hours learning hundreds of kanji, before you should even think about learning cursive.

[MrUltimateGaijin]

Dont rely on it for english to Japanese translations unless you know shiteloads of Kanji too, the jump feature on it only will jump to english words.
.

u r meant to just draw the kanji it gives u.

[Hanakuso]

Thats possible... just a bit time consuming if your using it while studying or trying to talk to someone and find that critical bit of vocab. I still maintain my opinion that you would want to be pretty kanji proficient to make the most of the DS jiten.

[vitellus]

How easy is the DS to use as an electronic dictionary? I saw somebody use it for JP-ENG and it seemed a bit slow and impratical compared to the regular electronic dictionaries. I only thought about it because people were saying how important it was to have a stylus with the dictionary for drawing kanjis.