Bush says, "Saddam, you've got 48 hours pilgrim!"

[Big Booger]

Bush: Saddam has 48 hours to leave Iraq

Saying the "danger was clear" that the Iraqi regime would provide terrorists with biological, chemical or nuclear weapons, President Bush announced the end of "peaceful efforts" to disarm Iraq in a televised address to the nation Monday night.

"Peaceful efforts to disarm the Iraqi regime have failed again and again, because we are not dealing with peaceful men," Bush said.

Bush then gave Iraqi President Saddam Hussein 48 hours for him, his immediate family and other key leaders to leave Iraq before military action began "at a time of our choosing."

The Full Story

[Gaisaradatsuraku!]

Bush actually had great delivery. As Americans the burden is on us as usual to guide the world from the hands of another rabid and murderous ideology. That is facism wrapped in the cloak of fundamentalist islam. I wonder what are deep thinking allies think will become of this scourge if just allowed to flourish. Do they think it is just a benign force. Did they think that way of communism when their cities were targeted with nuclear bombs. Did they even notice?

Bush summed it up well. 12 solid years of failed diplomacy and deceit. It must come to an end now.

The time is now for all free nations to stand shoulder to shoulder with us and help actively defeat this enemy or forever be branded as cowards.

[ramchop]

The time is now for all free nations to stand shoulder to shoulder with us and help actively defeat this enemy or forever be branded as cowards.

So Bush is forever branding a big chunk of the free world as cowards? What a prick!

Even if the tin-pot dictators of the world were excluded from the UN and there was no veto, I still doubt that Bush/Blair would have the numbers to win a vote.

I don't think the reasons put forward for war are sound. However, Saddam is an evil fucker and I truely hope that in this case the ends justifies the means.

[Gaisaradatsuraku!]

The time is now for all free nations to stand shoulder to shoulder with us and help actively defeat this enemy or forever be branded as cowards.

So Bush is forever branding a big chunk of the free world as cowards? What a prick!

Even if the tin-pot dictators of the world were excluded from the UN and there was no veto, I still doubt that Bush/Blair would have the numbers to win a vote.

I don't think the reasons put forward for war are sound. However, Saddam is an evil fucker and I truely hope that in this case the ends justifies the means.

Stand up for something for once in your life. The straglers are no more than cowards and traitors to progress. The end is now for dictators such as Saddam. More to follow. The first chapter of post Berlin Wall history is being written.

[Marvin Feltcher]

Bush is an asshole, but it was a great speech.
I hope the U.S. (and Aussies!) give Saddam a Ba'ath...they oughta beat the Shiite out of him.
Any bets on how many hours before Iraq surrenders once the attack begins?

[Gaisaradatsuraku!]

Bush is an asshole, but it was a great speech.
I hope the U.S. (and Aussies!) give Saddam a Ba'ath...they oughta beat the Shiite out of him.
Any bets on how many hours before Iraq surrenders once the attack begins?

I disagree with the beginning. Bush is not an asshole. He is a man who at least has found some honor in his life. Clinton is an asshole. A power grabbing, pants dropping Arkie with no sense of dignity. That's an asshole.

I heard that some Iraqi soldiers have already surrendered to a small fireworks display put on by some soldiers near the frontline. The Iraqis thought they were about to be attacked and gave it up post haste.

In about the time you can say humas they will surrender.

[omei]

Although it was from the movie "Spiderman" I think the quote: " With great power comes great responsibility", sums up my feelings... I feel it is the responsibility of those in power, dedicated to freedom and with a track record to prove it, to oppose tyranny in all its forms.

I dont expect the comfortable nations like France and Canada, whose entire lifestyle was bought and paid for in American blood, to support action of any kind. However, history has shown that if blantant tyranny is not opposed, it will grow out of control. I am not for war. Yet, we live not in a perfect world. And until that day comes conflict will happen, and only history will judge who is fighting for good or evil.

[ramchop]

Stand up for something for once in your life. The straglers are no more than cowards and traitors to progress. The end is now for dictators such as Saddam. More to follow. The first chapter of post Berlin Wall history is being written.

Bollocks!

The stragglers are not cowards. They're certainly not refraining from joining the US action for fear of Saddam's army. There's no question that Iraq's military will fold and fold quite quickly.

The stragglers are traitors to progress? Saddam may have been toying with the weapons inspectors but it was pretty obvious that the inspections were getting somewhere. Most of the "evidence" of banned weapons was flimsy and a some of it was even forged.

Bush's attitude is very very clear. "Fuck the world. I know what's best".


I'm quite clear in my position. War is not justified now. I'm still allowed to hope that the outcome is not disasterous (and it could be). The outcome could have many positive effects. It'll certainly shake up the UN.

[GuyJean]

Bush is not an asshole.

I agree. He's a spoiled oil-boy with no ability to communicate beyond his peers.. I guess a silver-spooned redneck is better than an asshole..

Clinton is an asshole. A power grabbing, pants dropping Arkie with no sense of dignity..

.. Um, yeah.. I think you got the pants dropping right.. And who really cares about dignity when it was himself and his family that he damaged? (Unless you were dating him) You don't think Bush/Cheney are power grabbing?

I'm surprised you hold Reaga.. I mean, baby Bush in such high regard. He's done NOTHING on his own. Colin Powell is self-made, as was/is Clinton. I have SO much more respect for people like that, IMO.

I thought Bush sounded decent today.. He read his speech well.

GJ

[Gaisaradatsuraku!]

Stand up for something for once in your life. The straglers are no more than cowards and traitors to progress. The end is now for dictators such as Saddam. More to follow. The first chapter of post Berlin Wall history is being written.

Bollocks!

The stragglers are not cowards. They're certainly not refraining from joining the US action for fear of Saddam's army. There's no question that Iraq's military will fold and fold quite quickly.

The stragglers are traitors to progress? Saddam may have been toying with the weapons inspectors but it was pretty obvious that the inspections were getting somewhere. Most of the "evidence" of banned weapons was flimsy and a some of it was even forged.

Bush's attitude is very very clear. "Fuck the world. I know what's best".


I'm quite clear in my position. War is not justified now. I'm still allowed to hope that the outcome is not disasterous (and it could be). The outcome could have many positive effects. It'll certainly shake up the UN.

Bullshit,

Your country like most countries falls to its knees in front of terrorism and fascism. If you can't fight in a unified manner with your allies then you are the enemy as well. The war is justified. Saddam has lied and connived and stalled for over 12 years. He was notified that any omissions or delays would constitue a material breach of the UN resolutions. Well, he omitted and he delayed and the weak kneed Euro fag crowd that wants to do business with him and made it clear they would never support military action asked for more time. Where will it end. 48 hours that's when. Get behind us in this action or stand in front of this with our enemies.

You make the choice.

[Gaisaradatsuraku!]

Bush is not an asshole.

I agree. He's a spoiled oil-boy with no ability to communicate beyond his peers.. I guess a silver-spooned redneck is better than an asshole..

Clinton is an asshole. A power grabbing, pants dropping Arkie with no sense of dignity..

.. Um, yeah.. I think you got the pants dropping right.. And who really cares about dignity when it was himself and his family that he damaged? (Unless you were dating him) You don't think Bush/Cheney are power grabbing?

I'm surprised you hold Reaga.. I mean, baby Bush in such high regard. He's done NOTHING on his own. Colin Powell is self-made, as was/is Clinton. I have SO much more respect for people like that, IMO.

I thought Bush sounded decent today.. He read his speech well.

GJ

I have no respect at all for Clinton. People fawn over him because he is soooo smart. He is not that smart he is just motivated. He also has the ability to lie with ease which evidences a total lack of morals. That is what makes him so eloquent. He is an actor. Better a rich boy than a lying sack of shit. I knew he was a liar from the day I first saw him on TV. I kid you not, I turned to the person next to me and said that is going to be our next President and he will be a disgrace.

Powell is great. He should be President.

[ramchop]

Your country like most countries falls to its knees in front of terrorism and fascism. If you can't fight in a unified manner with your allies then you are the enemy as well.

What an astounding amount of shit you speak.

I can think of one when a foreign lead act of terrorism occurred in my country. Nothing major, only one casualty. The bastards were caught and locked up. (then handed back to their paymasters where they were given an award, but we won't go into that )

As for fascism, we were well into WWII before America became involved.


Fight unquestioning alongside your allies? Remember Vietnam? Yes that was a justified war. Shameful that we sent troops to help on that occassion, but at least our soldiers fought willingly and weren't made into slaves by a repugnant draft system.

Just why the fuck shouldn't we question the actions and motives of our all-powerful allies?

[Gaisaradatsuraku!]

Your country like most countries falls to its knees in front of terrorism and fascism. If you can't fight in a unified manner with your allies then you are the enemy as well.

What an astounding amount of shit you speak.

I can think of one when a foreign lead act of terrorism occurred in my country. Nothing major, only one casualty. The bastards were caught and locked up. (then handed back to their paymasters where they were given an award, but we won't go into that )

As for fascism, we were well into WWII before America became involved.


Fight unquestioning alongside your allies? Remember Vietnam? Yes that was a justified war. Shameful that we sent troops to help on that occassion, but at least our soldiers fought willingly and weren't made into slaves by a repugnant draft system.

Just why the fuck shouldn't we question the actions and motives of our all-powerful allies?

Because you are a dumb ass Australian and can't think for yourself. Now sit down and get in the back seat before we pull this car over and bitch slap your indolent ass into oblivion.

As for WWII the European allies have themselves to thank for that war. They would not make a united stand. They began to lose badly and the US was obliged to step in. This is a repeat. The weak Europeans stare moral victory in the face and turn tail and run.

As for Vietnam, your country's contribution was paltry. Korea actually made a worthwhile contribution. Because your contingent was so small you didn't need a draft in spite of the fact that this war was occurring in your back yard. Once again big brother to the rescue. Eat shit and die.

[GomiGirl]

Bush is not an asshole.

I agree. He's a spoiled oil-boy with no ability to communicate beyond his peers.. I guess a silver-spooned redneck is better than an asshole..

Clinton is an asshole. A power grabbing, pants dropping Arkie with no sense of dignity..

.. Um, yeah.. I think you got the pants dropping right.. And who really cares about dignity when it was himself and his family that he damaged? (Unless you were dating him) You don't think Bush/Cheney are power grabbing?

I'm surprised you hold Reaga.. I mean, baby Bush in such high regard. He's done NOTHING on his own. Colin Powell is self-made, as was/is Clinton. I have SO much more respect for people like that, IMO.

I thought Bush sounded decent today.. He read his speech well.

GJ

Absolutely agree with you on all points..

I watched the speech reading this morning waiting desperately for some nugget that would enlighten me to a justifiable reason for this invasion.. I was left unsatisfied. Just the same tired old lines of good versus evil crap that may have worked during the middle ages to an uneducated populice but doesn't hold water today. In a strange way, I want to agree but I will not just do so because I am told to without any explanation. That smacks of dictatorship.

Threats of "you are with us or against us" make my blood boil. Democracy is supposed to allow for people to think freely for themselves and make up their own minds and act accordingly. This is Mcarthy-ism all over again.

I was watching an interesting documentary the other night on the recent quiet actions of OPEC in Austria. Every country had a page giving information on the delegates with their photos. Iraq, one of the largest oil producing countries, had no photo and three lines, as if a regime change had already occured. It was also interesting that Iraqi opposition leaders currently in exile in Europe have been invited for the first time to the "big" table for the OPEC talks and behind closed doors they have been invited to talks with the US delegates. This was most suprising to the Iraqi opposition leaders as they have never had this type of attention before. So this is not about oil huh?

[ramchop]

Because you are a dumb ass Australian and can't think for yourself.

Yes, who needs to think for yourself when America can do all the thinking for you? Is that your definition of "freedom"? :P

[Gaisaradatsuraku!]

Bush is not an asshole.

I agree. He's a spoiled oil-boy with no ability to communicate beyond his peers.. I guess a silver-spooned redneck is better than an asshole..

Clinton is an asshole. A power grabbing, pants dropping Arkie with no sense of dignity..

.. Um, yeah.. I think you got the pants dropping right.. And who really cares about dignity when it was himself and his family that he damaged? (Unless you were dating him) You don't think Bush/Cheney are power grabbing?

I'm surprised you hold Reaga.. I mean, baby Bush in such high regard. He's done NOTHING on his own. Colin Powell is self-made, as was/is Clinton. I have SO much more respect for people like that, IMO.

I thought Bush sounded decent today.. He read his speech well.

GJ

Absolutely agree with you on all points..

I watched the speech reading this morning waiting desperately for some nugget that would enlighten me to a justifiable reason for this invasion.. I was left unsatisfied. Just the same tired old lines of good versus evil crap that may have worked during the middle ages to an uneducated populice but doesn't hold water today. In a strange way, I want to agree but I will not just do so because I am told to without any explanation. That smacks of dictatorship.

Threats of "you are with us or against us" make my blood boil. Democracy is supposed to allow for people to think freely for themselves and make up their own minds and act accordingly. This is Mcarthy-ism all over again.

I was watching an interesting documentary the other night on the recent quiet actions of OPEC in Austria. Every country had a page giving information on the delegates with their photos. Iraq, one of the largest oil producing countries, had no photo and three lines, as if a regime change had already occured. It was also interesting that Iraqi opposition leaders currently in exile in Europe have been invited for the first time to the "big" table for the OPEC talks and behind closed doors they have been invited to talks with the US delegates. This was most suprising to the Iraqi opposition leaders as they have never had this type of attention before. So this is not about oil huh?

I tell you what sweetie pie. Do you want to learn about tyranny and McCarthyism first hand. Why don't you get your fucking ass on a plane and go to the Middle East and learn a little about what life would be like if it weren't for countries with backbone. They will teach you exactly what you are worth which is nothing. Thank your lucky little stars that a country like America exists. You are so fucking stupid to even think that Saddam represents an alternative. You are so fucking naive to think that this man deserves even the chance to live. You are a dingbat.

And on your way back why don't you get me a god damn beer honey and make yourself useful for once.

[Gaisaradatsuraku!]

Because you are a dumb ass Australian and can't think for yourself.

Yes, who needs to think for yourself when America can do all the thinking for you? Is that your definition of "freedom"? :P

Hey, the people in New Jersey don't think much. They do all right and so could you guys.

[Gaisaradatsuraku!]

The stragglers are traitors to progress? Saddam may have been toying with the weapons inspectors but it was pretty obvious that the inspections were getting somewhere. Most of the "evidence" of banned weapons was flimsy and a some of it was even forged.

Where do you get this nonsense. Furthermore, Saddam was given extension after extension. It has to end. We are not the French. What we say we mean. Saddam and every other petty dictator must know this and respect us. When we say now we mean now. Saddam is just the first one to go down.

[ramchop]

Where do you get this nonsense

Here

Most damaging of all, the inspectors made progress and did not find any of the weapons of mass destruction the dossiers had said were there.

[GomiGirl]

I tell you what sweetie pie. Do you want to learn about tyranny and McCarthyism first hand. Why don't you get your fucking ass on a plane and go to the Middle East and learn a little about what life would be like if it weren't for countries with backbone. They will teach you exactly what you are worth which is nothing. Thank your lucky little stars that a country like America exists. You are so fucking stupid to even think that Saddam represents an alternative. You are so fucking naive to think that this man deserves even the chance to live. You are a dingbat.

And on your way back why don't you get me a god damn beer honey and make yourself useful for once.

You haven't been laid in a really long time have you?

I believe that freedom not only gives me the right to question the actions of leadership, but it is actually the duty of free citizens to question so to protect liberty.

I don't have the name of any political party tattooed on my ass, I will listen to anybody that steps up to speak to offer leadership. But I will not agree just because they are the leader.

[Marvin Feltcher]

ramchop, you're an Aussie?
I thought you were a Kiwi...I'm sure you're a Kiwi, with the references to the French terrorists, the sheep avatar and all.

Anyway, Gaisara, there's a couple of things you should know about the Aussies and about the Aussie and the Kiwis in Vietnam.
We're in there as gung ho about getting rid of goddam Saddam as the U.S. is for the same reason...the world has given him dozens of chances to do what he promised to stop the Allies in 1991 and he didn't do what he was supposed to. Get him now before he can get us (or at least the U.S.) later.

Because your contingent was so small you didn't need a draft in spite of the fact that this war was occurring in your back yard.

Australia and New Zealand (then the same military) made a significant contribution to Vietnam, and not just by being wonderful R&R or medevac spots. Roughly 50,000 served in Royal Australian Regiment from 1965 to 1971 (and an unknown number of advisers before that). The ANZAC taskforce (Aussies and Kiwis) held Bien Hoa Province near Saigon and completed all assigned missions. I don't know about Kiwis, but Aussies were drafted into that war, including my brother and a cousin.
I don't know what point I'm trying to make, except perhaps that both Australia and New Zealand are outstanding U.S. allies, even if we don't always agree with the U.S.

Once again big brother to the rescue.

Actually, Big Brother was going in to save France's arse, after it lost a colonial war in Vietnam. Big Brother then got himself in the shit. Australia/New Zealand sent advisers upon the request of President Kennedy and combat troops after being asked by President Johnson. It wasn't like Big Bro coming to the rescue, but you had some real fighters beside you to show you how to get it done properly!

P.S. I still think Bush is an asshole, but I'd take a cigar off him before I took one from Slick Willy.

[Gaisaradatsuraku!]

Where do you get this nonsense

Here

Most damaging of all, the inspectors made progress and did not find any of the weapons of mass destruction the dossiers had said were there.

Total obfustication. It was determined that Saddam had weapons he did not declare and were a material violation. Hans Blix found the missiles. Hans Blix couldn't find his ass with both his hands and he found them. In addition, wiretaps clearly revealed Saddam's military actively communicating and planning to hide items from the US inspectors. All material breaches for which serious consequences must be paid by Saddam. He could just get up and fucking leave and there would be no war. The onus is on the dictator.

I am sorry. The French think the inspections would work. That is not good enough with me. My government and leaders have not been in bed with Saddam like Chirac (Chirac is on record for calling Saddam his personal friend). I am concerned with the safety of the American people. Chirac is French. Enough said there.

[Gaisaradatsuraku!]

I tell you what sweetie pie. Do you want to learn about tyranny and McCarthyism first hand. Why don't you get your fucking ass on a plane and go to the Middle East and learn a little about what life would be like if it weren't for countries with backbone. They will teach you exactly what you are worth which is nothing. Thank your lucky little stars that a country like America exists. You are so fucking stupid to even think that Saddam represents an alternative. You are so fucking naive to think that this man deserves even the chance to live. You are a dingbat.

And on your way back why don't you get me a god damn beer honey and make yourself useful for once.

You haven't been laid in a really long time have you?

I believe that freedom not only gives me the right to question the actions of leadership, but it is actually the duty of free citizens to question so to protect liberty.

I don't have the name of any political party tattooed on my ass, I will listen to anybody that steps up to speak to offer leadership. But I will not agree just because they are the leader.

so what's your fucking solution. Let these dictators stand. Sorry sweetie. That era is over. Think Genius, think. You are trying to apply democratic principles to a dictator. He laughs at this shit. The West's blind youth are truly disturbing.

PS: I probably get it more often than you sweetie. And from a better source.

[ramchop]

ramchop, you're an Aussie?
I thought you were a Kiwi...I'm sure you're a Kiwi, with the references to the French terrorists, the sheep avatar and all.

True, but I found the remark more amusing than insulting so I didn't see a need to correct it.

Actually, Big Brother was going in to save France's arse, after it lost a colonial war in Vietnam. Big Brother then got himself in the shit. Australia/New Zealand sent advisers upon the request of President Kennedy and combat troops after being asked by President Johnson. It wasn't like Big Bro coming to the rescue, but you had some real fighters beside you to show you how to get it done properly!

I thought the whole point of that war was to fight communism, not to rescue the French. Nevermind that in that instance it could have been a democratically elected communist government if given the chance. But then why let countries make their own mistakes when you can show them the true and righteous path through force.


There's no question in my mind that Saddam should fall. I only question the legitimacy of the use of immediate force.

[Marvin Feltcher]

Gaisara,
Tone down the personal attacks a bit, heh.
Everyone's entitled to an opinion even if it differs from your own. I, and plenty of others less verbal, agree with the U.S. attack on Iraq, but we've also got to admit there are a hell of a lot of others out there who don't.

[Gaisaradatsuraku!]

Once again big brother to the rescue.

Actually, Big Brother was going in to save France's arse, after it lost a colonial war in Vietnam. Big Brother then got himself in the shit. Australia/New Zealand sent advisers upon the request of President Kennedy and combat troops after being asked by President Johnson. It wasn't like Big Bro coming to the rescue, but you had some real fighters beside you to show you how to get it done properly!

P.S. I still think Bush is an asshole, but I'd take a cigar off him before I took one from Slick Willy.

No, we weren't picking up France's battle for it. It was the domino theory. We were fighting communism only. In the end we lost that war so no one really showed us how to do anything "properly."

The big losers were the victors. Who die on boats to get to the country who they bogged down in a vicious war. Plenty of brave young men taken away. Fighting for ideals. It is truly sad. Now we can do better. As for the guy who said Australia/New Zealand only has suffered one terrorist attack that is not really true. A huge number of Australians got it in Kuta (sp?). We are not save anywhere when these piss pot dictators can set up terrorist training camps within their borders while the West wrings its hands about whether this is fair or not. So far it has been fair. Overly so. Frankly, I am ready to get twice as dirty as the enemy. Let them meet Allah with a grimace on their face.

[Gaisaradatsuraku!]

Gaisara,
Tone down the personal attacks a bit, heh.
Everyone's entitled to an opinion even if it differs from your own. I, and plenty of others less verbal, agree with the U.S. attack on Iraq, but we've also got to admit there are a hell of a lot of others out there who don't.

True. And I find there is a common thread among those who don't think Saddam needs to be removed. One they tend to be in their teens/twenties. Two, they know absolutely nothing about the history of WWI or WWII. Three, they completely overlook the atrocities committed by the enemy. Four, the further they feel they are removed from the threat of terrorism the less they want to do. Five, most have never experienced a war, lost a relative at war or feel that they will ever be called to serve in some sort of role.

I could go on.

[Gaisaradatsuraku!]

In short, they are the pollyanna, non-thinking irresponsible types.

[Marvin Feltcher]

We're all correct in a way. France's war in Vietnam began before the Cold War started. It was fighting teh Viet Minh, a nationalist/communist force armed by the U.S. (to resist Japan) and led by Ho Chi Minh, who actually cited the U.S. Declaration of Independence when declaring Vietnam independent. The U.S. only started funding and arming the French to a large extent in Vietnam after about 1947 (earlier aid had been funneled through French hands into funding the war effort and did not come directly from the U.S.).
Still, all this is irrelevant...both ramchop and Gaisara are right...the war was essentially about stopping communism, which ironically, the Vietnamese ended up doing themselves after trying it for a while.

[wreddock]

All right, let me see if I understand the logic of this correctly...

We are going to ignore the United Nations in order to make clear to
Saddam Hussein that the United Nations cannot be ignored. We're going to
wage war to preserve the UN's ability to avert war. The paramount
principal is that the UN's word must be taken seriously, and if we have
to subvert its word to guarantee that it is, then, by gum, we will.
Peace is too important not to take up arms to defend. Am I getting this
right?

Further, if the only way to bring democracy to Iraq is to vitiate the
democracy of the Security Council, then we are honor-bound to do that,
too, because democracy as we define it is too important to be stopped
by a little thing like democracy as they define it.

Also, in dealing with a man who brooks no dissension at home, we cannot
afford dissension among ourselves. We must speak with one voice against
Saddam Hussein's failure to allow opposing voices to be heard. We are
sending our gathered might to the Persian Gulf to make the point that
might does not make right, as Saddam Hussein seems to think it does. And
we are twisting the arms of the opposition until it agrees to let us
oust a regime that twists the arms of the opposition. We cannot leave in
power a dictator who ignores his own people, and if our people, and
people elsewhere in the world, fail to understand that then we have no
choice but to ignore them.

Yep, that sums up the situation.