Is there any hope for Japan?

[John Dillinger]

So I've finished reading Shutting Out the Sun: How Japan created it's own Lost Generation and I finally understand why you guys are so critical of Japan. S.T Francis Xavier once called Japanese The Devil's Language, that it seemed as if it's complexity was engineered by Satan to make it difficult to preach the gospel to the Japanese.
After what I've read of the beauracracy,the conformity,the group think, and the suppression of individuality that the Wa entails, it would seem as if the Devil invented the Wa.( I may be exaggerating and generalizing, but the Wa does seem to do more harm than good.)

So then, do any of you think that Japan will ever free itself from the bondage of the Wa? What would it take for the Japanese to think for themselves?

[GomiGirl]

Take everything with a grain of salt. There are heaps of things that do work well here too and while it is easy to point out what is wrong with any place, it is best to get a balance.

I am no apologist, but I also don't believe in visiting a persons house and telling them where to put their own furniture.

[TFG]

As GG pointed out, there are many good things here that are certainly less constrictive that in many Christian influenced western societies.

And as for all the Christian hype about the Devil being involved in WA, what more can one say apart from, Blah?

There are some schools of thought that think Jesus is actually the devil, looking at all the wars, murders and corruption involved with Christianity it is makes one wonder.

Also, once you actually learn Japanese it is not that difficult of a language at all actually. Grammar is much looser than English, French or Italian.

I like the swear words, CHIKUSHO domesticated animal. KUSO TARE, go crap yourself and let it run.....They are unlike western languages swear words in as much as they are mostly void of sex or taking the so called "God's" name in vain. See, the language isn't hung up on sex nor religion.

[John Dillinger]

As GG pointed out, there are many good things here that are certainly less constrictive that in many Christian influenced western societies.

And as for all the Christian hype about the Devil being involved in WA, what more can one say apart from, Blah?

There are some schools of thought that think Jesus is actually the devil, looking at all the wars, murders and corruption involved with Christianity it is makes one wonder.

Also, once you actually learn Japanese it is not that difficult of a language at all actually. Grammar is much looser than English, French or Italian.

I like the swear words, CHIKUSHO domesticated animal. KUSO TARE, go crap yourself and let it run.....They are unlike western languages swear words in as much as they are mostly void of sex or taking the so called "God's" name in vain. See, the language isn't hung up on sex nor religion.

I guess I should have used another way to get across what I was saying than mentioning ol' Beelzebub.
I suppose it just bothers me that the Japanese just can't come out and say what they really feel without it causing problems. But as Gomigirl says, I do need to get a balanced view of things.(After reading about all the unneccessary construction that's done, I really do understand Taro referring to Tokyo as the "Concrete buttplug"

[Charles]

No, Japan will never give up the "wa." Without that common shared consciousness of joushiki, it would not be Japan.
As I studied the Japanese language, I noticed a few "Japanese-isms" crept into my English speech. One of the more common Japanese phrases is "to iwarete imasu" which means literally "it is said that.." but more loosely, "they say.." This phrase is commonly used to attribute attitudes that everyone knows or behaviors everyone should emulate.
I unconsciously started using this structure in English. Such and such is so and so, they say. I remember my (American) girlfriend once exasperatedly asked me "who is this 'THEY' you keep referring to?" Um, like everyone? "No, everyone doesn't say that, how COULD they ALL say that?" Sheesh.
No, Americans don't have that shared consciousness of the way things are or the way things should be. We are taught individualism over conformity. Alex Kerr wrote in one of his books that Americans (and Westerners generally) are deep personalities in a shallow culture, while Japanese (and Asians generally) are shallow personalities in a deep culture. While I am not prone to accepting such sweeping generalities, I think this one is worth pondering.

[Buraku]

yes there's hope, there are a lot of good things about this country


despite the antics from the likes of Koizumi and Abe - the LDP haven't flushed nippon down the toilet yet

[Mulboyne]

So I've finished reading Shutting Out the Sun: How Japan created it's own Lost Generation and I finally understand why you guys are so critical of Japan.

I've got criticisms of Japan but I wasn't impressed with that book. He accepts without question the estimates of hikkikomori and NEET populations made by people with a vested interest in inflating those numbers. I can't take seriously anyone who writes of "an angry, alienated and deeply pessimistic populace teetering on the edge of a nervous breakdown" with no real analysis. "Angry" and "pessimistic" could describe citizens of any number of countries. "Alienated" cries out for some kind of definition or context

One of the problems journalists encounter when interviewing in Japan is that people have a tendency to tell you what you want to hear so a leading question will take you anywhere you want to go. Virtually any guide to doing business in Japan written in the last 50 years mentions how you have to take what you are told with a large pinch of salt. This isn't just something confined to business meetings, though]this earlier thread[/URL].

[Greji]

"Angry" and "pessimistic" could describe citizens of any number of countries.

Well, you just described my wife and everyone that hangs out at my pub.

[D.]

Haven't read the book you're referring to, but after listening to an interview with the author on the radio, I'm not inclined to. I don't know if it's necessarily a bad book per se, but it certainly doesn't sound like the author is saying anything that interesting or new. Wa is an integral part of Japanese culture, but like anything else, it can be overblown. To use U.S. society as an example, there is a strong degree of individualism, which some people interpret to mean there is little focus on the group. To a point that's true, but it can also be misleading. Americans are not adverse to groups, but the degree to which the society falls on a continuum from groupism to individualism is always going to be relative to the other comparators (i.e to a Japanese, U.S. society may seem excessively individualistic).
Part of the interest of that book is the whole "hikikomori" phenomenon, but from a larger perspective, it's just a social ill (perhaps a bit unusual in some aspects), which all societies suffer from. If you wanted to connect a social ill to the U.S. "obsession" with the individual you might select our society's tolerance of a health care system that works very well for a good percentage of the population, but spectacularly fails about 10%-20%. Or maybe its our propensity for violence. My point is societies suffer from various ills related and unrelated to their structure.
I suppose this sounds all very relativist, but that really isn't my intent. I guess I'm just saying take sweeping books like that with a large dose of skepticism. One society's ills, however strange it may seem to you (or me), is rarely a harbinger of doom.

[TFG]

yes there's hope, there are a lot of good things about this country


despite the antics from the likes of Koizumi and Abe - the LDP haven't flushed nippon down the toilet yet

Let's hope the people flush the LDP down the crapper come ellection day and of course before that Ishihara takes the slippery path like the true TURD he is.