home buying

[Buraku]

Would you rather live in a Western Dog Kennel
or the US where they also provide subsidized housing

or a Japanese hotel/house ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capsule_hotel
3,000 Yen per night



tough choice to make

Japan's Bonds Gain on Concern Reports to Signal Economy Slowing
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101&sid=apUgM1CLvUe8&refer=japan
A gauge of money spent on services in Japan was probably flat in July, the trade ministry may say in two days, according to a Bloomberg News survey. U.S. Treasuries may advance for a second day before a Commerce Department report tomorrow that is forecast to show a cooler housing market hurt consumer spending.

[flotsam]

great chart. do i use that at the bank when they ask for 50 MILLION FUCKING YEN up front for a home loan? and can bank people read stuff like that, cause i fucking can't.

[Mulboyne]

Asahi: Rising land prices boost condo costs

Buyers of new condominiums in the Tokyo area can expect to pay 10 to 20 percent more this autumn than they would have a year ago, because of a rise in land prices. The biggest increases are expected to be in Tokyo's 23 wards and the cities of Yokohama and Kawasaki. An industry official said the condo market in urban centers is "overwhelmingly a seller's market" as consumers are moving to purchase properties before mortgage rates climb.
...In August, a group of three developers led by Mitsui Fudosan Co. put on the market 533 units in a high-rise near Musashi-Kosugi Station in Kawasaki's Nakahara Ward. All the units, the first of a series of sales planned for the building, were sold immediately. The average price was 2.33 million yen per tsubo, or 3.3 square meters, according to Haseko Research Institute Inc. It means a 70-square-meter unit sold for about 50 million yen, at least 10 percent more than similar properties marketed by other companies in July.
...But some analysts said the rise in land and property prices may not last long. "The supply of condominiums already exceeds demand as Japan faces a decline in population," said Akiyoshi Inoue, president of Sanyu Appraisal Corp. "If sales slow, developers will abandon their land and prices will fall"...more...

[james]

so after telling sekisui our budget, and going through the design process they came back with prices that were 140%, 126%, 116%, and 102% of our budget with the house size growing considerably smaller each step of the way.

it was not so much the fact that it got so much smaller, but the amount of time involved, exhorbitant pricing on a lot of the interior stuff and the fact that they just didn't seem to understand wtf i meant by my budget figure. i'd like to get something in the 52-55 tsubo range and i think 70 man per tsubo is just a "wee" bit pricy, which is what two of the estimates worked out to. even the latest estimate is at around 65 man per tsubo. 63 if i factor out a couple of the zeitaku-hin (namely fireplace and garage door opener). in all fairness though, this is after taxes and including a/c etc.

we are about to cancel with them. the forms have been signed but not submitted yet.

so we are back to looking for a builder. checking out the rep of some of the local carpenters and what they can do for us etc. simple things like leaving it as plasterboard so i can prime and paint it myself instead of all this tacky wallpaper everywhere. tiling instead of wooden flooring in the kitchen etc.

also looking again at import house builders and i'm going to check out Kudo/Florence Garden, as despite it being unconventional around here, i'd like a basement if it's doable. grumblebum, i'd really like to know how things worked out with your house, how the basement is working out etc, how you found the builder to be after they got your contract / money etc. feel free to pm me, or maybe i'll go ahead and pm you.

just curious, has anyone here dealt with this outfit?

Take Home. they're an import house builder. seem to be using foam insulation, decent windows, central air/heating etc..

[Doctor Stop]

Have you read this, James?

http://debito.org/residentspage.html#HOUSEBUILDING

[Taro Toporific]

Have you read this, James?

http://debito.org/residentspage.html#HOUSEBUILDING

Please note, Debito, has many good ideas and suggestions but he's totally wacko on some things.
Of course, most (99.99999999%) Japanese shit-insane methods of insulation are wrong. However, Debito's HOUSEBUILDING thinks foam is the only way to go (without considering out-gassing of vile plastic fumes). There are many ways to skin a cat in construction and Debito isn't very flexible in his thinking.

Please note that MUJI is now selling MUJI houses starting from only 1.3 million yen for 80sqm micro house. I would be tempted to just slap two MUJI houses side by side and step the whole J-loan process, Satan's spawn contractors, etc.

[james]

read through debito's stuff again. i think his site may be starting to get somewhat dated, but a lof of the information still seems good / relevant. there are services now (notably fbc) that make personal importing much easier and i think now certain foreign standards (notably csa) approved materials are now allowed in many cases for use in japan.

i'm looking at two import builders right now - takehome and florence garden. i swear one of them had a link to the hardiplank that debito mentions in his site, but damned if i can renavigate the sites to find it. sure i can google for it and find it no problem, but a link from their site implying that they are using it was more what i was interested in.

i can still see myself wanting to go to the u.s. or canada to buy certain goods such as a proper oven / range, interior paint, wallpaper-trim and some other stuff. the u.s. is probably easier in terms of pricing, availability and cost-effective shipping options.

everything is pretty much up in the air right now.

on a different note, i've been looking at plans from an american site - houseplans.com. strangely enough, they don't dimension stuff in 坪 or 畳 so i've been using a conversion factor of 1坪 = 35.54 square feet. does this sound right?

[dimwit]

35.5844 to be precise.

[james]

35.5844 to be precise.

thanks! at least i know now my estimates for my wife weren't totally off the map.

grumblebum, if you're still at all active on the board, i'd really like to hear from you.

[GomiGirl]

I can put you in contact with an architect if you like. If I was building a house I doubt I would go with the disposable ticky-tacky houses like Sekusei as they never have the good stuff like insulation, double glazing etc. they are designed to be pulled down in 20 years which just goes against the grain for me.

But PM me if you want the name and number of the architect.

[james]

I can put you in contact with an architect if you like. If I was building a house I doubt I would go with the disposable ticky-tacky houses like Sekusei as they never have the good stuff like insulation, double glazing etc. they are designed to be pulled down in 20 years which just goes against the grain for me.

But PM me if you want the name and number of the architect.

i was actually fairly impressed with their quality, at least what i'd seen at the factory and the various houses they had under construction. still, for what we'd be getting, it just seemed rather overpriced. they had double-paned windows w/ argon gas etc.

after re-reading this thread, i saw your previous message about the architect. not sure how i missed it the first time. not sure i can afford one though. does she / he just design or also build?

[GomiGirl]

can't hurt to get a quote.

She provides a quote for all of her and includes construction costs.

[Big Booger]

I can put you in contact with an architect if you like. If I was building a house I doubt I would go with the disposable ticky-tacky houses like Sekusei as they never have the good stuff like insulation, double glazing etc. they are designed to be pulled down in 20 years which just goes against the grain for me.

But PM me if you want the name and number of the architect.

I'd be even more worried about the craftsmanship.. I mean if they can put the house up in less than 4 days... something shoddy is happening. But I dunno.. I just get that feeling. There are 5 places going up from SexyChopsueyHouse near where I live.. they had the foundation poured and the framing up in less than 3 days... shocked me...

[james]

I'd be even more worried about the craftsmanship.. I mean if they can put the house up in less than 4 days... something shoddy is happening. But I dunno.. I just get that feeling. There are 5 places going up from SexyChopsueyHouse near where I live.. they had the foundation poured and the framing up in less than 3 days... shocked me...

that seems to be quite common here. the foundation gets poured, and the framing goes up very quickly.

off-topic - got to checking out your blog. definitely interesting.

[Big Booger]

that seems to be quite common here. the foundation gets poured, and the framing goes up very quickly.

off-topic - got to checking out your blog. definitely interesting.

I suppose if they prefab it, I could get it.. but when you see framing going up so quickly.. it makes you worry about it. Those same houses now have the roof, windows, interior walls and so on... it's insane.

I have seen another place just down the road where they have hired an old carpenter and he has taken is time.. working the materials the way I'd appreciate it if I were chunking down some wad on a new home. I guess it's up to your own preferences and what you will accept. I just wouldn't take anything less than the best, for something you'll be stuck with for 20-40 years.

Note: I need to update my blog.

[Ol Dirty Gaijin]

I wouldn't worry about the frame going up so quick. I drew up a friend's house a couple of years ago. I approached it like a typical mechanical design job and framed it up for him (he's a chippie). He said the way way I did it saved him a lot of time, 1/4 of his regular jobs and zero waste on raw materials. Standard fittings are a standard size. Windows and doors all fit first time.
We did use more material but that was due to the design standard we kept to, not going to maximum dimensions on everything. Overall it saved him money anyway, as labor is the most expensive thing. Banging things up with a nail gun is no worse that some old plonker with a pocket full off nails. But some things are in the details.
Traditional japanese buildings have no fixed joints, they all have a degree of movement which is great if your structure is subject to outside movement (typhoon, earthquake). That old carpenter might be taking time to do some quality, or he might be polishing a turd. Hit the place with a tape measure and see how far apart the vertical sections in the framework are and check it with the building codes. Look at the corner joints. Before you complain about the foundations, ask how long it takes for concrete to set, more importantly does it need to be compacted, how much reo is in it and at what spacings.
I'm not defending the mass production builders out there, but they may not be as bad as you think.

[james]

just went through the estimates we'd originally received from sekisui. 70 man per tsubo at the start to just a little under 63 man per tsubo. (including taxes, a/c etc)

while i don't want it built dirt cheap by the absolute lowest bidder, i thought 70 and even 63 was a bit high.

[Grumblebum]

thanks! at least i know now my estimates for my wife weren't totally off the map.

grumblebum, if you're still at all active on the board, i'd really like to hear from you.

Yeah, I'm still around here.. Sorry to hear things aren't looking too good with Sekisui. One of our neighbours used them and their house is very nice. Very generic and typical, but nice nonetheless.

Our experience with Florence Garden was good and bad.

Good:
Very solid, decent quality construction, all quality materials. Design was ok (more on that later). Sales staff were good, not pushy, and very flexible.
Very flexible in terms of fittings - we could pretty much take any item out and they'd show us exactly how much we'd save, with numbers that were verifiable. And if we found something we wanted added, they would show us exactly how much discount they could get for whatever it was.

Bad:
Architects - the architect assigned to us was pretty useless - no creativity or willingness to offer up design ideas to get around some of the problems we had.
Building site supervisor - nice guy and tried like heck, but way too overworked .

We decided to go with one of their fixed price designs. Because the building approvals and so on for the plan are already done, it cuts a fair bit off the price (we did a comparison of a total custom design and one based on an existing design, and it saved us a few million yen).
However, in hindsight if I had to do it again I'd probably go for a total custom design - we had to make too many compromises and spent way too much time trying to figure out how to fit what we wanted into the existing house plan - and this was also where the architect was a problem. Since it was a fixed plan, I believe their fee was also fixed, so they didn't have a lot of interest in spending much time coming up with any good ideas. Either that or they were just plain dumb.
I ended up designing a lot of the interior layout myself, because they couldn't come up with a way to give us what we wanted.

One of our problems was that we got so tired during the planning process that we ended up missing several things that I now want to fix.

All that being said, I'm pretty happy with what we've got. The basement is a real plus and the build quality is great.

In terms of price we paid about 55man/tsubo. I don't think you'll be able to get anything decent for much less than that.

Oh yeah. One thing I liked is that the company gave us a book with complete construction details, showing all the construction calculations, detailed drawings of the framing and walls, everything.
Its been really handy. Not sure if other companies do this..

[FG Lurker]

There are 5 places going up from SexyChopsueyHouse near where I live.. they had the foundation poured and the framing up in less than 3 days... shocked me...

Everything is pre-cut and delivered ready for assembly. Very efficient way to build a house, really.

[Korrito]

I'd be even more worried about the craftsmanship.. I mean if they can put the house up in less than 4 days... something shoddy is happening. But I dunno.. I just get that feeling. There are 5 places going up from SexyChopsueyHouse near where I live.. they had the foundation poured and the framing up in less than 3 days... shocked me...

Back when I was Amish, we could raise a barn in one day.

And a sturdy Amish barn at that.

[james]

Back when I was Amish, we could raise a barn in one day.

And a sturdy Amish barn at that.

were you really amish? just curious because recently i'd been reading alot about amish life on their website.

[Big Booger]

Everything is pre-cut and delivered ready for assembly. Very efficient way to build a house, really.

No doubt... but if I am putting down my hard earned, I'd rather watch it go together on the job site. That's just me though. Something about seeing 2X4s and 2X6s going up and then being nailed together the old "amish" way... makes my sticker peck out.

Pre-cut is nice and all and efficient.. and if price is the main objective, then that's the way to go.. But I'd rather have someone sorting through the lumber, finding the best pieces, measuring on the site, and putting it together while taking into account any minute changes that might need to be made with a more hands-on approach.. as opposed to what I saw the other day.. it looked more like a lego house.

Not saying that it couldn't be done with a pre-cut or pre-fab deal... I just want to watch the process happening, and make sure that the wood is quality and the framing is quality and that if any changes have to be made then a professional craftsman (if you hired one) can go in and work his/her magic.

[Charles]

No doubt... but if I am putting down my hard earned, I'd rather watch it go together on the job site. That's just me though. Something about seeing 2X4s and 2X6s going up and then being nailed together the old "amish" way... makes my sticker peck out.

You should have been around here a few years ago when a tornado went through the heart of Amish country. They put up 5 or 6 houses and barns in a week or so. That was awesome.

My town has an old section called "Goosetown" that's famous for its old homes dating back to about 1900. Many of them were bought prefab from Sears. You could order a house right out of the Sears and Roebuck catalog, they'd precut all the timber and ship it to you by railroad, all you had to do was follow their plans and nail it all together.

[oyajikun]

[GomiGirl]

Probably because Shinsei don't have enough money to lend anybody.

Or it could be the amount of money you have as deposit and what they calculated your monthly payments would be and felt that necessary repayments were too high based on salary.

[Taro Toporific]

I hear that Tokyo Mitsubishi sometimes gives loans to those without permanent residency. Has anyone had any luck with them?

Yep, Tokyo Mitsubishi UFJ gave me a loan without permanent residency.
(But as GG said, all Japanese banks are low on capital at the moment and are not inclined to lend money.)

[oyajikun]

The house is only 30 million yen. We planned to pay 10%.

I asked the bank if they would change their mind if I would pay 20% down, but they still said no.

I guess they would not readily admit being too broke to loan me money, and this does make me feel much better. Thanks GG!

Called Tokyo Mitsubishi (Both Tokorozawa and Fukuoka Branches) but both said they would not lend in Okinawa..

I guess I'll have to let go and wait until I receive my eijuuken before I start looking again..


Thanks for the input!

[Doctor Stop]

The second half of this article is somewhat on topic:

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/fd20090628pb.html

[GomiGirl]

The house is only 30 million yen. We planned to pay 10%.

I asked the bank if they would change their mind if I would pay 20% down, but they still said no.

In the world of conservative banking, 20% is still kinda low for a deposit. I think gone are the days of 100% or higher loans. Sadly that bubble has burst.

[dimwit]

We put down about 40% two years ago and that I gather is not unusual.