travelling alone with my son

[james]

this summer, i'll be travelling alone (ie, without the mrs.) to canada with my eldest son (5) for a couple of weeks.

i would very much like to avoid being detained and possibly refused boarding at either airport (narita / toronto). we'll be flying air canada. is anyone here familiar with what (if any) documentation i might need?

[GomiGirl]

Why do expect to be detained and refused boarding? Has it been outlawed that a father and son travel together?

I would have thought that you would just need his and your passports, plane tickets and the usual stuff like departure cards/embarkation cards etc and gaijin card, licence or other ID.

[Taro Toporific]

Why do expect to be detained and refused boarding? Has it been outlawed that a father and son travel together? .

It might be if James' son has a Japanese last name on his passport (logical choice for living in Japan) but is traveling with father, James Gaijinsan, that does not match.

[canman]

Just as Taro stated, it is a big problem for gaijin fathers to travel with their Japanese children if they have different names. A friend of mine got stopped multiple times when he travelled with his son. It seems someone saw the two of them, and reported them to immigration officials. They were then detained until they could prove that his son was really his son.

[dimwit]

Ah the fun of Canadian immigration!

What you need is a Permission to Travel form. You can either make this yourself or even better go to your local prefectural international centre and they can make one for you. It has to be signed by someone in authority. You could get it notorized but that would cost and they don't seem to mind if it is signed by a consullor at the internation centre. These days travel agents seem to give them out when they sell you tickets so I am surpirsed you haven't got one.

The form should more or less looks like this

Joe Blow passport number 12346789 has permission to travel to Canada accompanied by Joe Blow Sr. passport number during the peroid of august first toaugust second for the propose of organ removal er tourism.

During he stay he will be residing at the resdience of John Blow 999 Porno Drive, Vancouver, V1V1V1

Name and signature of father Name and signature of mother


As sworn to me

Konke Ito
Signature

Counsillor Shimane internation centre

Generally it is not that much of a hassle if you have this document.

Good Luck

[james]

Why do expect to be detained and refused boarding? Has it been outlawed that a father and son travel together?

with international abductions on the rise, i've been reading about some countries enacting exit controls when leaving for places that are not signatory to the hague convention, so from this i'm concerned about when i leave canada. not sure if it's like a do-not-fly list or what. we're still married so maybe it doesn't apply.

and yeah, as a foreign parent leaving on my own with my son, i do expect problems at narita. at least since he's a boy though, they won't try to detain me on an obscure "trafficking young girls for the purpose of prostitution" law. perhaps though they'll see that our tix are round trip and that i'm a permanent resident and just wave me through. still, i'd rather have my ass covered.

[james]

Just as Taro stated, it is a big problem for gaijin fathers to travel with their Japanese children if they have different names. A friend of mine got stopped multiple times when he travelled with his son. It seems someone saw the two of them, and reported them to immigration officials. They were then detained until they could prove that his son was really his son.

fortunately, my wife took my name, so our sons and she all have my family name, properly spelt so no mismatches there.

whenever i travel with my students, i prepare a letter with rows for all their names, addresses, passport numbers, phone numbers on it. at the top i state they are travelling with my full name and passport number with our departing and return flight numbers. signed by both parents *and* a witness and notarized.

[Charles]

Here in the US, you can get family passports, so your children travel on the same passport as a parent. Or at least you used to be able to do this, I'm not sure if you can do this anymore. I remember traveling abroad when I was a kid and all 7 kids were on my Dad's passport, we even had a group photo pasted into it. Maybe if you and your child are both on the same nation's passports you could do the same, if your country offers this sort of thing. It would certainly make things a lot easier. But there are probably easier ways to do this, as others have suggested.

[Ol Dirty Gaijin]

Here in the US, you can get family passports, so your children travel on the same passport as a parent. Or at least you used to be able to do this, I'm not sure if you can do this anymore. I remember traveling abroad when I was a kid and all 7 kids were on my Dad's passport, we even had a group photo pasted into it.

So why the hell did you bother posting, considering it has nothing to do with the US and you haven't been a kid for 20 odd years?


sorry James for the distraction.

[GomiGirl]

Here in the US, you can get family passports, so your children travel on the same passport as a parent. Or at least you used to be able to do this, I'm not sure if you can do this anymore. I remember traveling abroad when I was a kid and all 7 kids were on my Dad's passport, we even had a group photo pasted into it. Maybe if you and your child are both on the same nation's passports you could do the same, if your country offers this sort of thing. It would certainly make things a lot easier. But there are probably easier ways to do this, as others have suggested.

That used to be the case in all countries but nowadays even newborns need to have their own passport.

I travelled through Europe when I was a kid on the same passport as my mother and brother but this has not been allowed for about 20 years.

[dimwit]

I have been travelling back alone with my son to Canada for the summer every year and in 2004 the started to require a Permission to Travel form. They don't really care coming back into Japan (they have never even asked to see the document), but going to Canada without it, they will take you aside, call your wife back in Japan 3:00 in the morning local time and ensure that your child has permission, than they will search your bags thoroughly so you can kiss any connecting flight bye-bye.

[GomiGirl]

I have been travelling back alone with my son to Canada for the summer every year and in 2004 the started to require a Permission to Travel form. They don't really care coming back into Japan (they have never even asked to see the document), but going to Canada without it, they will take you aside, call your wife back in Japan 3:00 in the morning local time and ensure that your child has permission, than they will search your bags thoroughly so you can kiss any connecting flight bye-bye.

Really? That is a bit rude - assuming that all men traveling with children are kidnappers, perverts or stealing children from a spouse. Talk about presumed guilty until proven innocent. I know that some kids need protection during a messy divorce, but seems a bit rough on the normal dad taking his kid on a holiday. Do they check the mothers too? Would only be fair as lots of child abductions are also by the mothers.

Sorry that you guys have to deal with that.

[Charles]

So why the hell did you bother posting, considering it has nothing to do with the US and you haven't been a kid for 20 odd years?

Because Canada (or Japan as the case may be) might offer similar programs even today. I don't know if they do, but if it's possible, it might have been helpful info that was worth pursuing.

So what was your motivation for posting a cranky, useless message fuil of bitching?

[Greji]

Really? That is a bit rude - assuming that all men traveling with children are kidnappers, perverts or...

They don't check goats do they?

[GomiGirl]

They don't check goats do they?

They get put underneath in the luggage compartment. But I think if you are traveling with livestock, conjugal visits are permissible..

[Jack]

You will definitely need a letter from your son's mother stating the info Charles wrote earlier. You basically need to show the immigration officer here that his mother is aware that you are travelling together.

I travel to Japan often with my son alone. In Japan they never required it but everytime I return to Canada they ask me if I have a letter from his mother. To which I reply that I don't and they always repeat that "next time" I should have a letter.

[dimwit]

Really? That is a bit rude - assuming that all men traveling with children are kidnappers, perverts or stealing children from a spouse. Talk about presumed guilty until proven innocent. I know that some kids need protection during a messy divorce, but seems a bit rough on the normal dad taking his kid on a holiday. Do they check the mothers too? Would only be fair as lots of child abductions are also by the mothers.

Sorry that you guys have to deal with that.

I get the feeling (althought I have no proof of it) that Canada is an equal opportunity harasser.

I have always wondered what the situation would if the Canadian parent living in Japan got divorced an had custody. The Canadian immigration policy would seemingly make it difficult if not impossible to travel to Canada despite the fact that the child is a Canadian citizen. I got the feeling that immigration officiers in Canada are essentially clueless when it comes to the situation on the ground in other countries.

An interesting example. I have a student who is in elementary school and was thinking of taking him home to visit Canada but because his parents are divorced it is impossible to get his mother permission, hence he can't come.

[james]

yeah, the permission to travel, as i draw up with my students every year i think will do the trick. sad that i need to do this for my own kid but it's good that these checks are in place.

so if the customs officials in canada are so anal when one parent is travelling alone with the child on the way *into* canada, are they as equally anal when leaving? cause really, that's where the problems are. it's once you leave a signatory country (to the hague) that shit happens.

as for family passports, that is definitely no longer the case. even when my son was newborn we had to get one for him.

[dimwit]

are they as equally anal when leaving? cause really, that's where the problems are. it's once you leave a signatory country (to the hague) that shit happens.

Nope. Which is the most priceless irony about it all. They are more than willing to go out of their way to protect children from abduction going into Canada, but they won't do anything to protect Canadian children being abducted out of the country.

[Jack]

so if the customs officials in canada are so anal when one parent is travelling alone with the child on the way *into* canada, are they as equally anal when leaving? cause really, that's where the problems are. it's once you leave a signatory country (to the hague) that shit happens.

as for family passports, that is definitely no longer the case. even when my son was newborn we had to get one for him.

Leaving Canada is not a problem because Canada does not have passport control when you leave the country. Flying to Tokyo from Toronto is the same procedure as flying to Vancouver: Get your boarding pass, go through security and go straight to the gate.

[maraboutslim]

Question: does said youngster have both Japanese and Canadian passports? My kids have two passports. FWIW, I've travelled with just my son between California and Tokyo before with no issues (and no extra paperwork).

Really? That is a bit rude - assuming that all men traveling with children are kidnappers, perverts or stealing children from a spouse. Talk about presumed guilty until proven innocent...Sorry that you guys have to deal with that.

Yeah, it sucks. But on the "it sucks to be a man" list it ranks way down there below things like a woman receiving half our wealth just because she was married to us while we worked our asses off to earn it; alimony payments; difficulty in securing custody of children or even access to visit them; child support payments that the ex-wife can spend how ever she wants with no proof of it going for the child's well being; the fact that only a woman can choose to have a baby or not and regardless of the man's opinion, if she chooses to carry the child and give birth to it he'll be on the hook for 18-odd-years of financial support, yet if she chooses to terminate and deny birth to the child, he is shit out of luck and receives no compensation; and so on...and so forth.

[Samurai_Jerk]

[quote="maraboutslim"]Yeah, it sucks. But on the "it sucks to be a man" list it ranks way down there below things like a woman receiving half our wealth just because she was married to us while we worked our asses off to earn it]


Tell it all, brother! Tell it all!

In the West men have ZERO reproductive rights and much weaker rights than women when it comes to custody.

[GomiGirl]

[quote="maraboutslim"]Yeah, it sucks. But on the "it sucks to be a man" list it ranks way down there below things like a woman receiving half our wealth just because she was married to us while we worked our asses off to earn it]

ouch... not quite what I was expecting. Plan to leave that one right there as my list would be much longer. But we are all good friends right?

[Samurai_Jerk]

ouch... not quite what I was expecting. Plan to leave that one right there as my list would be much longer. But we are all good friends right?

Yes, women have other (more?) problems than men because of their gender. However, that doesn't make dsicrimination against men when it comes to reproductive and custody rights OK.

[CrankyBastard]

Yep, women have got it made.
They own half the money and all the pussy.

[GomiGirl]

Yes, women have other (more?) problems than men because of their gender. However, that doesn't make dsicrimination against men when it comes to reproductive and custody rights OK.

I agree with you. We all have our crosses to bear. Discrimination of any flavour that is gender based is not a good thing.

[james]

Question: does said youngster have both Japanese and Canadian passports? My kids have two passports. FWIW, I've travelled with just my son between California and Tokyo before with no issues (and no extra paperwork).

my sons currently only have japanese passports, though i have of course registered their births and obtained canadian citizenship cards for them both.

[quote="maraboutslim"]
Yeah, it sucks. But on the "it sucks to be a man" list it ranks way down there below things like a woman receiving half our wealth just because she was married to us while we worked our asses off to earn it]

yeah, i've got friends with stories. it's just a very fucked situation all around and needs to be fixed, big time. custody and visitation are still very unfairly slanted towards the mother, or in many cases "fucking pathetic excuse for a mother". against the father might be a better description.

and yeah, i seriously take issue with the whole lack of accountability for child support - it's a big fraud and scam in a lot of cases. i think rather than being handed money, the parent with custody should make a list of the child's needs and these should be provided for directly. rather than being told "food, piano and swimming lessons, gimme cash" - which, (in most cases she) will then spend on stupid shit for herself, she should supply invoices for said extra-curricular activities, with proof of enrolment, associated bills (gas etc) and monthly food needs and that this should be provided for directly. right now it's basically the equivalent of a pork-barrel (how appropriate a description in some cases) slush fund rife with abuse.

i'm not divorced, but if i were, i would expect no less than every cent/yen of child support being used to support the children.

[Mike Oxlong]

As for child support payments, EVERY CENT must go directly to support the children?! So, the mother, who can't be out working while taking care of the kid(s) can't use any of the support/maintenance money for her own food, clothing, and so on? She can be in no way compensated for the time she spends on child rearing, which obviously cannot be used to be out earning a living? She must care for the kids with the support money, and just forget about her own well-being? That sounds fucked. Sure, there needs to be accountiblity, but every cent for the kids. Definitely not practical.

[FG Lurker]

As for child support payments, EVERY CENT must go directly to support the children?! So, the mother, who can't be out working while taking care of the kid(s) can't use any of the support/maintenance money for her own food, clothing, and so on? She can be in no way compensated for the time she spends on child rearing, which obviously cannot be used to be out earning a living?

Child Support and Alimony are different things.

I don't necessarily agree that every cent of child support needs to be accounted for but the current system of "fork over cash and hope for the best" is fucked and needs to be fixed.

[james]

As for child support payments, EVERY CENT must go directly to support the children?!

yes, that's why it's called child support and not "my ex needs to buy beer and bingo tickets" or "my ex wants a new handbag & nosejob" support.

So, the mother, who can't be out working while taking care of the kid(s) can't use any of the support/maintenance money for her own food, clothing, and so on?

who says she can't be out working? depending on the age of the kids, they may be in school all day anyway. if i were divorced, i'd sooner pay for daycare (again with direct invoicing and proof of enrolment so she's not skimming off the top) then to have her sitting around in front of the tv getting fat on chips, twinkies and ho-ho's while "watching" the kids. sorry to sound like a misogynist but i have a couple of friends who are divorced and both of their exes are fat lazy fucking whores while they get reamed by the system. lots of single mothers (and fathers) juggle work and child care. i'd rather not support a system that encourages someone to be a sychophant.

She can be in no way compensated for the time she spends on child rearing, which obviously cannot be used to be out earning a living? She must care for the kids with the support money, and just forget about her own well-being? That sounds fucked. Sure, there needs to be accountiblity, but every cent for the kids. Definitely not practical.

i don't remember being married for pracitcal reasons. if she is indeed unable to work because she is taking care of the children, then yes, some sort of compensation should be worked out. however, the boundaries of what is considered "fair" compensation have been pushed rather far these days. if i win the lottery or make it big after the divorce, why should she be entitled to that? i'd also say that it depends on the custody arrangement. if it's 50/50 joint (trying not to snort derisively here) and both are earning a very similar salary (admittedly often not the case) then child support and alimony shouldn't even enter the equation. perhaps this is the case and they don't.