Racism surfaces over bid by foreigner to buy land, settle

[TennoChinko]

My simple question is what exactly makes one sound black or white, or asian, or whatever.... I mean I can understand a foreigner or immigrant speaking with a certain accent that they inherit from their culture... but what exactly does one mean when we say "he sounds black" or "she sounds white".... I am at a total loss as to what the difference actually is.

I can get educated and uneducated. I can get high class and low class.... but when it comes to racial profiling of linguistic ability... I am just sort of ignorant. Please enlighten me.

American personalities who are black and "sound black":
- eddie murphy
- bill cosby

A good example of the contrast between the black American 'accent' and a black person speaking the American version of 'received pronunciation' is illustrated in this 10 second clip in Beverly Hills Cop:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7e3TYKOVCM0

Eddie Murphy's character makes fun of the black police officer for speaking in a dry 'white-sounding' manner.

Being black in America often means one needs to 'tone down' or completely turn off the 'black accent' in the workplace. When around other blacks, however, the 'black accent' (similar to a Southern accent) gets turned back on -- either consciously or sub-consciously.

Here we have the opposite. Hillary Clinton speaking to a largely Southern black audience -- affecting a Southern drawl:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaDQ1vIuvZI

[American Oyaji]

Being black in America often means one needs to 'tone down' or completely turn off the 'black accent' in the workplace. When around other blacks, however, the 'black accent' (similar to a Southern accent) gets turned back on -- either consciously or sub-consciously

He is mostly correct. It's not really an "accent" per se, but a slightly different dialect of English, sort of the way Cockney is in England.

[Big Booger]

He is mostly correct. It's not really an "accent" per se, but a slightly different dialect of English, sort of the way Cockney is in England.

I just cannot buy into this. Seriously. There are millions of black people in the US and to say that they all talk in a similar manner is beyond me. I have heard blacks from Mississippi and I have heard those from New York, and California, and to me they all sound entirely different. In fact people from Mississippi sound like they are from Mississippi regardless of color. Same goes for New York or California.

I just cannot discern black talk from white talk if both are speaking from the same region. I'd really like to see this dialect or accent or whatever compared in a side by side natural manner, the way people naturally talk much like that dutchman.

As for Eddie Murphy and Bill Cosby, the two sound totally different from each other.. and to throw in another Chris Rock or even Richard Pryor.... These people all have different pronunciation and dialects. And then you have someone whom I particular think has a very nice voice, James Earl Jones, and you tell me he sounds "black"... I don't think so. He just sounds like himself. In fact, I guarantee not many people pictured the voice behind Darth Vader as being black when the films first hit the big screen.

But this is way off topic.. so I shouldn't have hijacked it like this. Sorry.

[Samurai_Jerk]

The fact is, in the US, there is a certain way of speaking beyond slang, that is most common among black people. It's something that is documented by linguists. On this show they showed that people who sounded black on the phone were more likely to get the cold shoulder than others. They called it linguistic profiling.

Al Sharpton speaks properly but sounds black:

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And I found a video from the show:

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[Samurai_Jerk]

I just cannot buy into this. Seriously. There are millions of black people in the US and to say that they all talk in a similar manner is beyond me.

No one said ALL black people sound the same. "Dialects" are different for white and black people from different parts of the country. There are black people who don't sound "black." I've also met white kids who grew up in mostly black neighborhoods and do sound "black." It's not a genetic thing. It just happens that in the US a certain cadence to one's speech is most common among black people. That cadence is different for black people from different areas.

Compare Jerry Seinfeld to Al Sharpton. Both born in Brooklyn and both grew up in the NY Metro Area:

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[Samurai_Jerk]

I'm not trying to harp on this or anything. However, I was trying find a complete version of that 20/20 video and came across this linguistic profiling test. I thought some of you might like to take it.

[Iraira]

I'm not trying to harp on this or anything. However, I was trying find a complete version of that 20/20 video and came across this linguistic profiling test. I thought some of you might like to take it.

Y'all up for the BITCH test? Black Intelligence Test of Cultural Homogeneity.

1. Alley Apple is
a) brick
b) piece of fruit
c) dog
d) horse

2. CPT means a standard of
a) time
b) tune
c) tale
d) twist

3. Playing the dozens means

a) playing the numbers
b) playing baseball
c) insulting a person's parents
d) playing with women


More from:
http://www.susanohanian.org/show_commentary.php?id=170

[American Oyaji]

BB, do you sing? And if so are you not so hot when you sing? I think you may be tone deaf.

I'm not cracking on you, but what is obvious to the rest of us and most of Americans escapes you. I think you may not be able to hear the tonal differences in patterns of speech. How is your Japanese? Was it easy, or rather hard for you to pick up?

And the reason I say most of Americans, is because this subject comes up as talking points on TV, message boards, even in comedy. It gets exagerrated, but the tones are still there.

[Adhesive]

There is a certain cadence and tone that is common to MANY black people in the U.S. Obviously not all, but many if not most. It often times doesn't matter where they were born or how well educated they are. For example, if I hear someone speaking on National Public Radio, they are generally experts in a particular field and are much more articulate than the average person, but I bet I can still distinguish between Black and non-Black 99% of the time.

[maraboutslim]

A study carried out a few years ago reported in the JTimes I think it was, asked Uni students in US/AUST/JPN/KOR/ and I think UK what their main worries for their countries were, and amazingly all students thought that racisim was a concern in their country....except Japan and Korea!! Prob two of the most predjudice lands on earth.

Huh? Why should a country that is 99% one race give a crap about racism? It's just such a non-issue that it's totally understandable why university students aren't concerned about it in their country.

funny thing is, it's not 99%... or are you being ironic?

No, I wasn't being ironic. I was serious.

All the statistics I've seen say roughly 99% of people living in Japan are Japanese. That last 1% included all the gaijin and all the non-japanized koreans and chinese.

I did a quick google search and here are some results:

99.4% http://www.nationsencyclopedia.com/economies/Asia-and-the-Pacific/Japan.html

98.7% http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/imm_for_pop-immigration-foreign-population

98.55% http://themargins.net/fps/student/himeno.html

98.5% (CIA!) https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ja.html#People


So...I repeat my question: Why should students in a country that is all one race find racism to be an issue worth thinking about? Now, if you live in Oizumi (15% foreign population) then maybe. But Japan as a whole? Total non-issue.

[Samurai_Jerk]

BB, do you sing? And if so are you not so hot when you sing? I think you may be tone deaf.

I was actually wondering the same thing but didn't ask because I figured he'd take it as an insult.

[6810]

No, I wasn't being ironic. I was serious.

All the statistics I've seen say roughly 99% of people living in Japan are Japanese. That last 1% included all the gaijin and all the non-japanized koreans and chinese.

I did a quick google search and here are some results:

99.4% http://www.nationsencyclopedia.com/economies/Asia-and-the-Pacific/Japan.html

98.7% http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/imm_for_pop-immigration-foreign-population

98.55% http://themargins.net/fps/student/himeno.html

98.5% (CIA!) https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ja.html#People


So...I repeat my question: Why should students in a country that is all one race find racism to be an issue worth thinking about? Now, if you live in Oizumi (15% foreign population) then maybe. But Japan as a whole? Total non-issue.

I notice how you don't quote the Ministry of Justice's latest statistics... Just a bunch of secondary sources...

If you dig around in Japanese reality, you'll come to see that

a. Stats often lag behind reality (true anywhere)

b. In certain parts of the country non-ethnic Japanese populations are more concentrateed than others.

c. Zainichi Japanese have often "hidden" their ethnicity to pass as Japanese. Then you have undocumented foreigners living in the margins as well...

d. The foreign population of "new foreigners" (non-zainichi) has grown for the 46th consecutive year

e. the 99% rule is bullshit. Especially for those "foreigners" unlike you how aren't just passing through. They're just waiting for you to go home. Like Takechanpo...

[Blah Pete]

Can you please briefly fill me in on what "sounding black" means... I am so clueless...

Rent the DVD of Shaft (the original) or Kentucky Fried Movie.

[American Oyaji]

I was actually wondering the same thing but didn't ask because I figured he'd take it as an insult.

That is why I phrased it like I did because It was not an insult nor did I mean it to be insulting.

[Big Booger]

That is why I phrased it like I did because It was not an insult nor did I mean it to be insulting.

I don't sing professionally. I have sung in a choir and so on. And I went to school in the deep south with black kids and they spoke like the rest of the people. Sure there were some words they didn't pronounce exactly the same like ask... which sounded more like ax... or something like that. But then I have heard Mexicans and white kids and others talk the same way.

I can tell a huge difference in the difference between over 30s and under 30s but to me black people sound no differently than white when you compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges.

What I mean is a black couple living in a ghetto will sound nearly the same as a white couple living in the same ghetto if they went to the same school, watch the same shows, and represent the same basic demographic apart from their "race". Likewise if the two theoretical couples are living in a high rise, out on a farm in Texas, or some trailer park in Phoenix. Much of your language comes from your parents who get it from their surroundings, their parents and so on...

Of course if you live in an all white or all black area you are going to sound alike.. that's why integrated neighborhoods, schools, jobs, etc. are so important. It helps bring us closer together not just in language ability but also in many other ways.

I think the stereotyping of linguistic ability might a form of segregation that could have a huge impact on society. And properly speaking English should also be encouraged by all... regardless of race, religion, creed, or sexual preference. Ignorance kills us all.

[Big Booger]

Rent the DVD of Shaft (the original) or Kentucky Fried Movie.

I have seen Shaft, and Boys N the Hood and other similiarly veined movies... and what I can tell from them is a stereotype toward ignorance that equates to black people. It's really a shame.

But take Boys N the Hood for example. Cuba Gooding Jr.'s character didn't sound like a hood rat.. but Ice Cube's did. Then look at their parents in that movie. Doughboy's mother was a ghetto queen... raunchy type woman, uneducated, downtrodden, etc...

Where as Cuba Gooding Jr's character's parents were semi-formally educated, they spoke perfectly clear and "white/dry" English which they passed on to their son.

Basically I am wondering if speaking like an uneducated hood rat is what you'd call "black talk" compared to someone like say Richard Dawkins who would represent the educated "white talk".... or is this off base?

[American Oyaji]

What I mean is a black couple living in a ghetto will sound nearly the same as a white couple living in the same ghetto if they went to the same school, watch the same shows, and represent the same basic demographic apart from their "race".

BB. There are indeed differences that it is apparent that you are physically incapable of hearing or even distinguishing. I'm not slamming you, it's just that you're ear does not hear the differences. I don't know if it is brain training or a difference in your ear that makes you incapable of hearing it.

It is more than just pronounciation, it is also the timbre of voice.

[Big Booger]

BB. There are indeed differences that it is apparent that you are physically incapable of hearing or even distinguishing. I'm not slamming you, it's just that you're ear does not hear the differences. I don't know if it is brain training or a difference in your ear that makes you incapable of hearing it.

It is more than just pronounciation, it is also the timbre of voice.

Perhaps I am just "black talk" tone deaf.

[Greji]

Perhaps I am just "black talk" tone deaf.

Naw, AO's got three ears and just likes to brag about his hearing.

[GomiGirl]

I'm kinda with BB on this one. Have you heard the black guys from the UK talk? They sound - to me - just like white English dudes. Whether people of a particular race put on a certain accent to fit into their peer group or the peer group they would like to be in is perhaps the question.

[American Oyaji]

GG, I also said it was a timbre of voice, a quality apart from the way one forms their words.

[maraboutslim]

I notice how you don't quote the Ministry of Justice's latest statistics... Just a bunch of secondary sources...

Well, are you going to post them yourself or is it going to remain my list of government and non-governmental sources vs. your gut feeling?

BTW, what does "population" of Japan mean to you/ministry of justice? Does it include tourists? People with working visas or better? People with longer term visas? Permanent residents and citizens?

Even if the number is 5% non-Japanese instead of 1%, my point about racism being a non-issue in Japan stands. It's just not experienced - either on the giving end or receiving end - by enough of the population to make the list of top concerns of the country as a whole.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Paul Wall: a white guy who sounds black

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[amdg]