Flying problems

[canman]

I know that this is not entirely related to Japan, but seeing as I am about to fly out of Japan for a two week holiday, I would like someone to explain to me why it is such a hassle flying into the US? And why it seems that the majority of problems and stress related incidents all occur in the US? Unfortunately I'm flying home using Northwest(free ticket using miles), but I really don't look forward to flying through Detroit.
There was a very good article about how people are now not afraid of flying, they are afraid of going to the airport. The long security lines, the questioning. The waiting, and perhaps the chance of being stranded in an airplane on the tarmac. I know that these events only happen once in a blue moon, but it seems to be a fact of life when flying though the US. These problems don't seem to happen in other countries, or maybe I just don't hear about it. Anyway any thoughts from all you world travelers.

[oyajikun]

I'll be returning to the US for the first time in 10 years for my sister’s wedding this fall. Among other things, I've been told that I’m in for a real shock with all the added security at the airports. I just hope the dodgy student photo in my passport doesn’t make my trip any longer than it needs to be.

[Ol Dirty Gaijin]

I've been through Detroit twice in the last 8 months. The flight with Northwest is no frills (take a laptop) but not bad. If you are going from Tokyo the flights are from China first so you might be seated net to someone *interesting*. If sick looking people with hacking coughs is interesting.
Customs for a non-US citizen at Detroit seems to be on the staff. I've had one good, one bad. What I found odd is for all the checks going in, there is next to nothing going out.

[Mulboyne]

Not all parts of the US are as strict as the major city hubs. I was in Hawaii last year and was pleasantly surprised to find the security less onerous than Heathrow when I went in. It wasn't too bad when I left either although I did get a stern look when an official found a 15ml bottle of shaving oil in my carry on bag. On the whole, though, the reputation of US airports is such that a number of people I know will do anything they can to avoid making a business trip there these days.

It will be interesting to see what happens at Narita when fingerprinting is introduced later this year. It seems as if that policy will apply even to permanent visa holders but no-one seems certain yet whether that means that FGs who currently use the Japanese/Re-entry visa holders queue will have to start using the Foreigners desks at immigration. If the fingerprint scanners and cameras aren't set up at the other booths then presumably they will have to.

I went through immigration a couple of weeks ago in the late afternoon and came up against a queue that already extended beyond the barriers. More passengers disembarked and no-one seemed to know where to stand. immigration officials decided the best thing to do was to break off these new arrivals and steer them towards some new booths in another part of the terminal. This was spotted by people already in the queue who were incensed that they were not being dealt with first since and what ensued was an astonishing mini riot. If the new procedures do result in longer queues then they might want to tighten up on crowd control procedures.

[Charles]

Wear a suit and tie. Look respectable and average. It works wonders at Customs.

[Taro Toporific]

[FG Lurker]

[Kuang_Grade]

Hawaii might be one of the better airport for foreigners to visit, given that a 25% of all visitors arriving by air are international visitors (a higher portion international travelers as % of total throughput than probably all but a handful of US airports), and that since the whole state's economy is primarily based on tourism, they might have taken the time to try to make things move smoothly, unlike, say JFK in NYC, where immigration/customs probably assumes that foreigners are either potential terrorists or drug mules first and then possible tourists later.

As long as you get there early enough, usually there are no big problems with security (I haven't faced anything in the US bigger than I would at Naritia on a busy day and time) and given that most flights to Japan from the US leave relatively early in the day, weather related delays from thunderstorms are unlikely to pose a threat.

[Iraira]

Watch the official video.

That was the cheesiest thing I've seen in a long time. The overdubbing was beyond bad. Shows what they think of us when they put together such a junior high school production to let us know how much they want to protect us.

[FG Lurker]

That video is certainly horribly done.

They also (of course) fail to mention that every terrorist act committed in Japan to date (as far as I know anyway) was committed by Japanese -- or at least Japanese organizations such as Aum or the Red Army.

[Iraira]

That video is certainly horribly done.

They also (of course) fail to mention that every terrorist act committed in Japan to date (as far as I know anyway) was committed by Japanese -- or at least Japanese organizations such as Aum or the Red Army.

That is because those groups were not really Japanese, as they were influenced by gaijin. The JRA (not Japanese Racing Association) was influenced by Marx (gaijin), and Aum was influenced by psychotic delusions (Psychoanalysis by Freud). Hence, no Japanese is capable of such acts of terrorism, only people who read Marx and Freud.

[FG Lurker]

Marx and Freud.

I'm sure the j-gov't will be sure to arrest both of them the next time they stop by Japan.

[Jack]

I never had much problems going to the U.S. It's just the over the top arrogance of the immigration officers that is annoying. But that's just that, annoying. Line ups can be very long particularly in Chicago, Los Angeles and New York when coming from an overseas flights.

[kamome]

I know that this is not entirely related to Japan, but seeing as I am about to fly out of Japan for a two week holiday, I would like someone to explain to me why it is such a hassle flying into the US? And why it seems that the majority of problems and stress related incidents all occur in the US? Unfortunately I'm flying home using Northwest(free ticket using miles), but I really don't look forward to flying through Detroit.
There was a very good article about how people are now not afraid of flying, they are afraid of going to the airport. The long security lines, the questioning. The waiting, and perhaps the chance of being stranded in an airplane on the tarmac. I know that these events only happen once in a blue moon, but it seems to be a fact of life when flying though the US. These problems don't seem to happen in other countries, or maybe I just don't hear about it. Anyway any thoughts from all you world travelers.

Beyond the heightened security measures at all the airports, I have seen news reports about a lack of air traffic controllers at the same time that there has been an increase in the number of planes in the air. Also, the computers that track flights are outdated. Those factors have caused an overall slow down and delays on the ground. Apparently, there are plans to introduce new air traffic control systems that are supposed to increase the efficiency of processing all of the planes and get them in the air on time, but the rollout won't happen until 2008 at the earliest.

Also, US airlines have built in an extra time cushion for departures and arrivals so they can say they have a high percentage of "on time" flights, even if, in reality, the plane experienced a delay on the ground. The airlines now seem to anticipate delays with every flight.

Given all of the problems associated with flying, I have tried to limit my domestic travel to areas within driving distance, and I limit flying to my mother's house and to international destinations if at all possible.

[dimwit]

The problem is not travelling to the USA but transitting in there to a third country. My gut feeling is that immigration does fuck people in transit around a lot more because there are no consequences for them. The passengers are going somewhere else so they will be mad on their arrival which is not going to be in the states.

I've always wondered about the legality of forcing passengers inside the international gate to go through immigration. As far as I know the US is the only place where this occurs.

[canman]

Dimwit, I think you're exactly right. Why give a fuck about the shmuck who is only using the airport to head off to anther country. Lets make his life hell, and make them sweat. But what I find very interesting and I would like to know how many other people feel like Kamome, about restricting their flying. I don't think US airlines want to hear that kind of information.
Charles I hear what you are saying, anybody looks much more respectable wearing a suit when traveling, but when it takes 25 hours to get from my door to my parents house, and doing it in August, notoriously one of the most humid months in Japan, wearing a suit and carrying lots of suitcases is not very practicle.

[Charles]

I've always wondered about the legality of forcing passengers inside the international gate to go through immigration. As far as I know the US is the only place where this occurs.

I heard they started doing that a couple of years ago at Narita. Someone cooked up a scheme to courier fake passports through the immigration lounge, to sneak in illegal aliens. As I recall it, the snakehead would fly into Narita at a known time, carrying multiple fake passports. Then he'd meet the incoming illegals in the immigration lounge, before they went through customs, and pass out the passports. Then the snakehead flies on, Narita was just a stopover.
I don't recall the specifics of the scheme too well, I think there was some discussion of this on FG but I don't know how I'd search for it.

[GomiGirl]

I've always wondered about the legality of forcing passengers inside the international gate to go through immigration. As far as I know the US is the only place where this occurs.

I was in transit in Sydney airport about 24 hours ago. I was flying in from vanuatu on my way back to the big mikan and had 4 hours to kill in Sydney. However, I chose to go out through immigration and then come back through. The customs guys thought I was weird but as an Australian citizen they couldn't really stop me.

Reason - they have just closed the smoking lounge at Sydney International airport and I was hanging out for a nicotine fix. So I told them I was headed out to meet a friend for coffee but really I just went onto the street and had a fag. Was a heap of forms and a few queues but it was no bother really as I had no luggage. However, I could have been doing anything - like meeting somebody on the street and picking up stuff.. but I still needed to go through immigration again on my way back in. So lots of security checks again.

Anyway - I feel sorry for non-australian citizens who couldn't do this if they were wanting to have a cigarette. I understand about not smoking on flights and not smoking inside work places etc, but surely they need to provide a place for transit passengers.

[Kuang_Grade]

I've always wondered about the legality of forcing passengers inside the international gate to go through immigration. As far as I know the US is the only place where this occurs.

I think it has alot to do with the development of US airports over time and the nature of gate layouts/security control...that it was easier/harder for someone to slip through if all international arrivals where shunted through immigration rather than trying to have some secure area where international arrivals could make a connection without going through immigration and also allow US departing folks into the same boarding area. Way back when, I believe Dulles (IAD), which was unusual in the US in the fact it was designed from day one for international traffic, had a physically separate international terminal that you could make international connections from without going through immigration but to leave the building, you had to go through immigration. But I don't think that's been the case for quite a while now.

I imagine Narita has a similar setup because, prior to the super long range jets, it was a refueling point for asian bound planes from north america and got a lot people who weren't coming to Japan but rather where just on their way to somewhere else.

[L S]

I was in transit in Sydney airport about 24 hours ago. I was flying in from vanuatu on my way back to the big mikan and had 4 hours to kill in Sydney. However, I chose to go out through immigration and then come back through. The customs guys thought I was weird but as an Australian citizen they couldn't really stop me.

Reason - they have just closed the smoking lounge at Sydney International airport and I was hanging out for a nicotine fix. So I told them I was headed out to meet a friend for coffee but really I just went onto the street and had a fag. Was a heap of forms and a few queues but it was no bother really as I had no luggage. However, I could have been doing anything - like meeting somebody on the street and picking up stuff.. but I still needed to go through immigration again on my way back in. So lots of security checks again.

Anyway - I feel sorry for non-australian citizens who couldn't do this if they were wanting to have a cigarette. I understand about not smoking on flights and not smoking inside work places etc, but surely they need to provide a place for transit passengers.

What's the deal with Vanuatu? Captain Japan has been going there a lot lately...are you stalking him or are you guys planning a coup together?

[GomiGirl]

What's the deal with Vanuatu? Captain Japan has been going there a lot lately...are you stalking him or are you guys planning a coup together?

I wasn't aware that the Captain had been there. I was there for a family reunion of sorts. A nice big group of 17 of us!! Frightening really.

Had a great time - bit overcast and not much of a tan as it is winter there but it was still warm enough for swimming, diving etc.

[ketchupkatsu]

I think it has alot to do with the development of US airports over time and the nature of gate layouts/security control...that it was easier/harder for someone to slip through if all international arrivals where shunted through immigration rather than trying to have some secure area where international arrivals could make a connection without going through immigration and also allow US departing folks into the same boarding area. Way back when, I believe Dulles (IAD), which was unusual in the US in the fact it was designed from day one for international traffic, had a physically separate international terminal that you could make international connections from without going through immigration but to leave the building, you had to go through immigration. But I don't think that's been the case for quite a while now.

I imagine Narita has a similar setup because, prior to the super long range jets, it was a refueling point for asian bound planes from north america and got a lot people who weren't coming to Japan but rather where just on their way to somewhere else.

I think after 9/11 the U.S. changed that law that anyone even transiting through the U.S. has to fill out a customs form and go through a customs check.

In fact there was a case of a Canadian who was passing through New York on his way home from Europe, who was detained, sent to Syria and tortured. He was finally released after some time.

If you do a search for his name: Maher Arar

You could get more info. I'm not to sure about the particulars of the case.

[canman]

You see it's stuff like that, which is causing travelers to fret over flying. I also read about a Canadian who was not allowed on a flight because his name or something like it appeared on the Homeland Defense watch list. This was a 16 year old who was not allowed to travel with his classmates because of a typo.
Don;t get me wrong, I understand the need for security and being careful, but it seems that in the US at least they are taking thing way to far and its the traveling customer who gets it in the end. I also read that most of the well healed these days are using private corporate jets so as to avoid all of these hassles. Must be nice to be able to drive onto the tarmac and jump on a private jet.

[ketchupkatsu]

I don't know if any of you are journalist traveling to the US, but here is more to worry about going into the US.

Welcome to America


When writer Elena Lappin flew to LA, she dreamed of a sunkissed, laid-back city. But that was before airport officials decided to detain her as a threat to security ...

link

[Kuang_Grade]

I don't know if any of you are journalist traveling to the US, but here is more to worry about going into the US.

Boo hoo...showing up in a foreign country with no visa and contradicting your own immigration forms to immigration authorities is a good way to be detained in most countries. If she's that careless/irresponsible with her own personal documentation, I can only imagine how careless she is with her writing.

[Hawaiibadboy]

I was removed from a JAL flight last November for threatining a steward. The TSA and HPD took me off the plane and I was detained for 3 hours. I am banned fron JAL and signed a "agreement" with ANA via American Airlines that I will behave...basically.
They were way over reactive and everything was blown out of proportions but all the while I understood that this is a post 9/11 enviroment. You people snivelling should stay home or swim.
There are people right this second studying how to create another 9/11 ....you people better wake up.

[Big Booger]

I was removed from a JAL flight last November for threatining a steward. The TSA and HPD took me off the plane and I was detained for 3 hours. I am banned fron JAL and signed a "agreement" with ANA via American Airlines that I will behave...basically.
They were way over reactive and everything was blown out of proportions but all the while I understood that this is a post 9/11 enviroment. You people snivelling should stay home or swim.
There are people right this second studying how to create another 9/11 ....you people better wake up.

9/11 killed what 3000 people, look at the war in Iraq.. how many US soldiers have been killed? Afghanistan? How many civilians were killed? Should Americans be banned from traveling to any other country because of our warring behavior?

I hate how people use 9/11 to justify totalitarianism. Secure the pilot and cockpit area of the plane, and the terrorists won't get control of that airplane. It's nearly impossible to prevent all terrorism.. oh sure you may thwart quite a few, but eventually no matter how "secure" your airport is, if a terrorist is determined they will strike and there is nothing you can do about it. Homeland "security" is a total ruse to make people fearful and at the same time to give them something to trust to protect them.

Instead of inconviencing millions to prevent a couple dozen attacks, perhaps they aught to instead improve on existing strategy, make air travel more convenient instead of less, and employ armed undercover air marshalls on all flights to handle the threat firsthand.

A smart mouth on an airplane is no reason to detain someone for terrorism. A no-fly list is horseshit. I wonder how many no-fly list people have been prosecuted for terrorism? If they are a threat, then why are they not arrested, booked, and tried?

And in all honesty, I don't think the next attack will come from the air... I think it will come from cells already in the US who are cooking up schemes to attack a ground target.

[Phoenix_stu]

I don't reall think that he was detained for terrosim. He was most likely banned for just being an, or should it say showing his ass, or just as you said being a "smart mouth" This would happen to anybody who decided to be an ass on a plane.

He must of really threw one hell of a tantrum.
from the dictionary~ "an uncontrolled outburst of anger and frustration, typically in a young child "

[omae mona]

Regarding the deported journalist: a law is a law, and I'm all in favor of enforcement of laws. But this law is controversial, and furthermore (read on..) breaking the rule is not necessarily supposed to result in denial of entry to the country.

The rule means that a person who would normally be completely free to enter the US without a visa for 90 days needs to get a special visa just because they plan to write an article. Why would the government impose such a rule? Obviously it's not an anti-terror measure. It's an anti-embarrassment measure. Rather pathetic coming from the "land of the free". The U.S. government wants the opportunity to pre-screen journalists and decide ahead of time whether they approve of what the journalist is planning to write about. The process involves $100 and several weeks of waiting time for the visa. This sounds more like China to me.

Further evidence: This link explains that the customs officer has the DISCRETION to let a reporter in without this visa, just "reminding" the reporter to follow the rules next time. What kind of discretion would be involved here that allows some visa-less reporters in scott-free, while others end up in detention for a day and deported, despite the fact that they broke exactly the same law? The decision is obviously going to be based on whether the customs agent agrees with what the reporter is planning to write about or not.

Does anybody know which other developed countries have journalist visas like this now?

[Kuang_Grade]

I don't disagree with you Omae, but I think its less of a muzzle attempt (its not like anyone in the US really gives a shit what some foreigner writes anyway nor do they have to visit the US to write a bad story about the US) more of a work visa/taxation issue...and this is the forth or fifth time I've read (via casual reading) about this sort of thing happening over the last couple of years, so you'd think by this time, professional journalists would either figured that it is better to say you are a tourist or have the proper visas...The same sort of stuff has happened to rock bands, strippers, and people doing speaking tours in the US, so I don't why journalists should be some protected class.