Dead Ball (JPN Baseball Thread)

[Greji]

BS: Japanese pitchers still coming to grips

I'm still not convinced that this is much more than the media trying to explain the uniqueness of Japanese baseball (as fed through a gullible US media). Something similar to the "Gyroball" phenom.

Michael Westbay and Jim Allen in their Japanese Baseball Blog notes the following:


".....The balls are not that much differant and in the balls used in Japan, they can vary enough to make that differance unrecognizable.

There was recently an article in both Nikkan Sports and Shukan Baseball which tried to find why balls are flying out at such a high rate. There's a lot of jargon that I didn't understand, and need to take some time to learn before I can translate the articles with a reasonable amount of confidence. But my first impression is that the balls are being manufactured to the same specs as they have been in previous years, and with the same hanpatsu keisuu (repulsion coefficient).

I did translate the specs for balls and how they're put together at an unnamed Mizuno factory in a SABR mailing list recently. This was taken from the 2004 #25 issue of Shukan Baseball:

Spec
The ball must be made of cork, cow hide, and other materials.
The ball must be between 141.7 and 148.8 grams.
The ball must be between 22.9 to 23.5 cm in circumference.
...."

Another poster on the same site (who I agree with) says they are essentially the same:

".....The ball is the same size.
Weight L Weight H Circumference L Circumfrence H
MLB 5 oz 5.25 oz 9 in 9.25 in
NPB 5.002 oz 5.253 oz 9 in 9.29 in...."

But what might be construed as a differance is that if you take a ball at minimum size or weight specs from one league and compare it with a ball at maximum size or weight, than Walla! You will have a differant ball.

Also, interesting is the fact that I believe the home team will choose the balls for the game here in Japan.

Most pitchers choose a ball from its feel with the seams and surface depending on the type of pitches that they throw. They normally will not notice a gram or two differance in the weight.

I had a conversation with a certain pitcher who threw in the states and has since returned to Japan. He said he noticed no difference in the ball. I reminded him of an interview he did with the J-media that was widely televised where they asked him if there was difference in the ball and he said that there was a definate difference. He told me that this was what the reporters had told him to respond with when the asked the question. I asked him why he didn't say there wasn't and he said the media was emphasizing that point for the interview and he didn't want to get on their wrong side since media coverage is so important to Pro athletes.

Whadda ya think Capt'n? Another Gyro-ball again?

[Captain Japan]

Come on then, baseball experts, tell me what happened here in the 4th inning of this high school baseball game. Yokohama seemed to think they had struck the batter out and walked off. Meanwhile, their opponents thought the ball was still alive and scuttled around to score three runs.

From Wikipedia:

In baseball, an uncaught third strike (sometimes inaccurately referred to as a dropped third strike) occurs when the catcher fails to cleanly catch a pitch for the third strike. A pitch is considered uncaught when the ball touches the ground before being caught, or if the ball is dropped after being grasped (see also catch). The specific rules concerning the uncaught third strike are addressed in Rules 6.05 and 6.09 of the Official Baseball Rules[2], under which Major League Baseball is played.

On an uncaught third strike with no runner on first base (or with two outs regardless of whether there is a runner on first) the batter immediately becomes a runner. The strike is called, but the umpire does not call the batter out. Some umpires will actively signal that there is "no catch" of the pitch. The batter can then attempt to reach first base, and must be tagged or thrown out.

In recent memory, the most famous instance of this rule coming into play was in the 2006 ALCS:

So while third-string catcher Josh Paul and his Los Angeles teammates ran off the field Wednesday night, Pierzynski took off for first base, triggering what is sure to go down as one of the most disputed endings in postseason history.

Given a second chance when umpire Doug Eddings called strike three -- but not the third out -- Chicago beat the Los Angeles Angels 2-1 on Joe Crede's two-out double in the ninth to even the best-of-seven AL Championship Series at a game apiece.

[Greji]

From Wikipedia:

In recent memory, the most famous instance of this rule coming into play was in the 2006 ALCS:

Mickey Owen also comes to mind Capt'n!

[Captain Japan]

Whadda ya think Capt'n? Another Gyro-ball again?

The last time someone posted such a question in this thread I ended up wasting a month of my life, getting into arguments with NHK, and boring nearly all my friends to death looking for the answer.

I'd say that it probably sounds more like gyroball round 2 as opposed to anything else. However...

As to the friction, MLB uses a very special mud to rub on the balls prior to the games. Above there is mention of the J-balls arriving in foil. What they do after they unwrap them I don't know. But if someone were to say the friction on the surface is different between the leagues I might believe that to a certain extent.

As to the seams, it is possible for there to be a difference, but I reckon it to be insignificant. A lot of times you'll see MLB pitchers tossing balls back to the umpire if they don't like it for whatever reason. A lot of times it has to do with the seams. (Raised seams are said to improve the break on breaking pitches.) Could there be a substantial difference between the leagues? I just don't see it.

As to the size, as the specs above say, they are pretty close. So if there is a huge difference it would be a quality control issue at the factory, which for Rawlings is in Costa Rica. I don't know where J-balls are made. A friend of mine knew of a Japanese guy who worked for a company that made balls in Russia. I might give her a ring and see if she still has contact information for him.

I absolutely love this quote, and likely it says all you need to know:

I had a conversation with a certain pitcher who threw in the states and has since returned to Japan. He said he noticed no difference in the ball. I reminded him of an interview he did with the J-media that was widely televised where they asked him if there was difference in the ball and he said that there was a definate difference. He told me that this was what the reporters had told him to respond with when the asked the question. I asked him why he didn't say there wasn't and he said the media was emphasizing that point for the interview and he didn't want to get on their wrong side since media coverage is so important to Pro athletes.

[Captain Japan]

Mickey Owen also comes to mind Capt'n!

You are showing your age!

[Greji]

You are showing your age!

Hey, I'm two days older than dirt and Mickey Owen was still ahead of my time!

[Greji]

Bonds has done tremendous damage to the game and to his own reputation.

A gay friend sent me this to see if AK is still offering! He sent it as a Jpeg so I have to set it forth verbatim in small print, which should make Bird and AK that much more happy!

[Greji]

Team USA beat Team Japan 1-0 in Japan's first game of the Rotterdam World Port Tournament. J-pitcher Yusuke Iwamoto of Rissho University had a no hitter until two outs in the 9th! Then came the USA's only hit that scored the winning run (who had been walked on to base and advanced to third on a bunt and a sacrifice fly).

Iwamoto finished with a one-hitter and Japan was held to four hits by two Team USA pitchers.

Japan, USA, Cuba, Taiwan and The Netherlands are competing. Japan plays Cuba tonight. The rest of the tournament schedule is here......

[AssKissinger]

Bonds got the record for most hamsters in the rectum!

[Greji]

Bonds got the record for most hamsters in the rectum!

Did you notice that the News media's greatly hyped boycott of the event by Hammerin Hank went up in smoke when they played that congratulatory video from Aaron? It had to have really been a secret, because it really caught the media with their shorts down and for once they were caught speechless, having already prepared the boycott talking points.

Hank Aaron is just a sportsman and gentleman beyond description.

[kamome]

Did you notice that the News media's greatly hyped boycott of the event by Hammerin Hank went up in smoke when they played that congratulatory video from Aaron? It had to have really been a secret, because it really caught the media with their shorts down and for once they were caught speechless, having already prepared the boycott talking points.

Hank Aaron is just a sportsman and gentleman beyond description.

Don't read too much into that. It was a recorded message. Not the same as a personal appearance and seemed like a perfunctory gesture to me. Aaron is disgusted, as he should be, that his record was broken by a cheater.

[AssKissinger]

Aaron should have shown up in person and in his interview said 'He's the steroid king and I'm the home run king.'

[Hawaiibadboy]

Don't read too much into that. It was a recorded message. Not the same as a personal appearance and seemed like a perfunctory gesture to me. Aaron is disgusted, as he should be, that his record was broken by a cheater.

Exactly. I don't think he even mentioned barrys name did he?? Just somethin' about people chasing dreams/achieving anything. No name....did I miss it?

[Greji]

Don't read too much into that. It was a recorded message. Not the same as a personal appearance and seemed like a perfunctory gesture to me. Aaron is disgusted, as he should be, that his record was broken by a cheater.

Bull Shit Bird. Aaron is the type that if he was truly disgusted he would not have even recorded a message and he still wouldn't have said anything bad.

You just convicted Bonds based on the News Media reports. Maybe you can get him enrolled in Duke University to make even more noterity for him.

Have you also considered Aaron's age? He might not feel like sprinting out to catch the subway to the ballgame in whatever city they were playing.

With your guilty until proven innocent approach, you ought to become a lawyer when you grow up!

[Hawaiibadboy]

Bull Shit Bird....
You just convicted Bonds based on the News Media reports. Maybe you can get him enrolled in Duke University to make even more noterity for him....
With your guilty until proven innocent approach, you ought to become a lawyer when you grow up!

I guess this is sarcasm??
Bonds ADMITTED to "unknowingly" taking steroids but claimed he thought it was flaxseed oil.

But you want what? The justice systems stamp of approval.?:wall:

[American Oyaji]

Hey boothe, that article was good. The guy who wrote it was absolutely right.

If Bonds was in any way in violation of the rules, be sure they would have or will smack him down. They may have been waiting until after his record breaking shot, but up until now, all the shit they have thrown at him has not stuck.

[kamome]

Bull Shit Bird. Aaron is the type that if he was truly disgusted he would not have even recorded a message and he still wouldn't have said anything bad.

You just convicted Bonds based on the News Media reports. Maybe you can get him enrolled in Duke University to make even more noterity for him.

Have you also considered Aaron's age? He might not feel like sprinting out to catch the subway to the ballgame in whatever city they were playing.

With your guilty until proven innocent approach, you ought to become a lawyer when you grow up!

The media reported the facts, and the facts are that Bonds took the clear and the cream, which were performance enhancement supplements. The guy was seeking an artificial edge. What else do you need?

You're really scraping to find excuses for Aaron's non-presence. Aaron could make the game if he wanted to regardless of his age - and probably wouldn't be riding a subway to get there either.

[Greji]

The media reported the facts, and the facts are that Bonds took the clear and the cream, which were performance enhancement supplements. The guy was seeking an artificial edge. What else do you need?

You're really scraping to find excuses for Aaron's non-presence. Aaron could make the game if he wanted to regardless of his age - and probably wouldn't be riding a subway to get there either.

Bird, you've been doing to many torts, your eyes are stuck. Media and facts in the same sentance? Now that's and oxymoron for you. As far as Clear and the cream goes? That's going make him hit 73 home runs in the season? Where's due process here?

Like AO says, all the shit the media has thrown at him, bounced off. Do you at least intend to give him a fair trial after you have executed him?

As far as excuses go for Aaron, I don't think any are necessary, Aaron is a straight up individual who knows what he wants to do. If he didn't want to support or congratualate Bonds, he just wouldn't have made the video. Hell, at his age, he doesn't need to follow the games around waiting for the record breaker. Christ, the media was complaining that he wasn't showing up for the one that tied the record as well as the one that broke it.

Damn, you're talking almost a month or more of attending ball games around the country waiting for Bonds to hit the dinger. Who pays for that? MLB?

[American Oyaji]

On top of that, large muscles don't do anything for hand eye coordination.

There are MANY in baseball that have taken susbtances, in fact, the question may asked better by asking who hasn't. The only issue with Bonds is that he does not like the media, so they shit on him and he is a high profile player.

That's all it is.

[GuyJean]

On top of that, large muscles don't do anything for hand eye coordination..

I bet they do.. Larger muscles don't necessarily mean quicker muscles, but they do generally mean they are stronger.. Could it be 'stronger' might enable you to react more quickly to visual stimuli? ]Additionally, many longevity experts advocate reduced calorie intake and even occasional fasting as a good way to stimulate HGH production... - http://www.thehealthierlife.co.uk/article/3327/hgh.html[/QUOTE]
Honestly, the last time I fasted, during the sixth and seventh days, my vision improved noticeably; I could literally see more details at a further distance than I normally could.. Does it matter they were hallucinations from lack of nutrition? I didn't care. I was on fucking natural roids!

Of course roids improve alertness, quickness, strength, injury recovery, etc.. Why do you think athletes use them?

GJ

[kamome]

Large muscles surely improve power and bat speed. Even if hand-eye coordination isn't improved, you would need less time to get the bat around on the ball with that kind of strength.

Anyway, boothe: do you deny the validity of this article from sfgate.com describing the testimony to federal investigators of Victor Conte, owner of BALCO, which distributed performance enhancing drugs to Bonds? His legacy and record are tainted.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/03/02/BALCO.TMP

Agents claim that Anderson, Conte and Valente admitted their roles in providing steroids to baseball players -- and in some cases named names.
Internal Revenue Service investigator Jeff Novitzky wrote that while agents were searching Anderson's home on Sept. 3, the trainer allegedly told them the names of the ballplayers to whom he had provided illegal performance-enhancing substances.


"Anderson admitted that he had given steroids to several professional baseball players whose names I was familiar with from my review of other documents in this case," Novitzky wrote. Another IRS investigator, Brian Watson, wrote that Conte, the BALCO president, had made a "confession" to illegal steroid dealing to elite athletes. That also came on Sept. 3, after agents had raided BALCO and Conte's San Mateo home.
Conte, the agent wrote, gave a "complete statement regarding his involvement in knowingly, illegally, distributing steroids to numerous professional athletes." Conte said he knew it was illegal and assumed Anderson knew that, too, when allegedly receiving the steroids for professional baseball players, the affidavit says.



Later, Conte is quoted as saying that in early 2003, he had given a "clear" steroid-like substance to Anderson to give to a professional baseball player. The agent acknowledges he was not sure whether the substance qualified as a banned substance under federal law.

The article goes on to discuss Bonds's connection with Conte and Anderson. You would have be guilty of incredible wishful thinking to think that Bonds had no knowledge of what he was taking or that he didn't take it at all.

[GuyJean]

American Guttormson Banned after Positive Doping Test
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AsgJt7w_5_kALoNEm5aR6SAn0bYF?slug=txguttormsondoping&prov=st&type=lgns

American pitcher Rick Guttormson has been handed a 20-day suspension on Friday after becoming the first player in Japanese professional baseball to test positive in a doping case.

Yasuchika Negoro, the acting commissioner of Nippon Professional Baseball, announced in a press conference that Guttormson had been handed an immediate suspension while his team - the Fukuoka Softbank Hawks - have been fined nearly $63,000.

Guttormson tested positive for the masking agent Finasteride following his team's game against the Chiba Lotte Marines on July 13.

According to the Hawks, the 30-year-old righthander has been taking a hair growing supplement containing Finasteride for the last two years. Although he informed the team about this in February, the matter was not reported to the NPB...

I had no idea they tested for steroids in Japanese baseball.. Well, at least they test the gaijin.

GJ

[AssKissinger]

[SIZE="5"]*[/SIZE]Bonds never would've broke this record without The Clear.

[Samurai_Jerk]

When is the world going to just accept that athletes take roids and other shit and just sit back and enjoy the enhanced game of their choice?

[American Oyaji]

there is no PROOF. Only accusations.

There is no blood test proof of Bonds involvement with banned substances.

[Greji]

Large muscles surely improve power and bat speed. Even if hand-eye coordination isn't improved, you would need less time to get the bat around on the ball with that kind of strength.

Hand-eye coordination is not a muscle thing. IF YOU CAN'T SEE THE HOLE, I MEAN BALL, YOU CAN'T HIT IT!

All the roids in the world will not help that. They can put max distance on the ball when you hit it, which is why everyone, to include MacGuire was downing them. But, it still goes back to the fact that you have got to have the ability to hit the ball first, in order for all that muscular power to do something for you.

Anyway, boothe: do you deny the validity of this article from sfgate.com describing the testimony to federal investigators of Victor Conte, owner of BALCO, which distributed performance enhancing drugs to Bonds? His legacy and record are tainted.

Take that article into court Bird and see how fast it gets reduced to Charmin! If there were any positive tests or other evidence admissable against Bonds, don't you think all his "friends"would have had him in court with an indictment by now? Bonds has been at odds with the media his whole career. This is their chance to strike back. The press shouldn't be allowed to convict somebody, I thought that was the job of the court.

If you go through the entire indictment of Conte et al (I have), it mentions a "professional baseball player" in three places. It does not say Barry Bonds or anything that would direct attention in that area. The allegations stem from Greg Anderson being an aquaintance of Bonds.

The current Grand Jury will run until September, although it can be extended. If they don't bring in an indictment against Bonds, what is your next move Bird, move North Carolina and apply for Nyphong's job?

[Samurai_Jerk]

Hand-eye coordination is not a muscle thing. IF YOU CAN'T SEE THE HOLE, I MEAN BALL, YOU CAN'T HIT IT!

All the roids in the world will not help that. They can put max distance on the ball when you hit it, which is why everyone, to include MacGuire was downing them. But, it still goes back to the fact that you have got to have the ability to hit the ball first, in order for all that muscular power to do something for you.

Thank you. People act like all you have to is take 'roids and you'll wake up a top athlete. You still have to have talent and you still have to train hard as hell to be great. 'Roids just give you a little boost.

Anyway, what happened to innocent until proven guilty?

[GuyJean]

Hhhhmmm..

.. HGH can also strengthen bones, thicken hair, re-color the gray, improve vision, lower cholesterol and blood pressure, improve digestion, increase oxygen uptake, reverse shrinking of major organs, quicken healing of wounds and even more... - http://hmedicine.com/homeopathy/information/benefits_of_hgh.php

GJ

[kamome]

We're not talking about getting a conviction beyond reasonable doubt here, folks. The reported statements to the feds and Bonds' known links to Balco are enough to produce the doubt in the public's mind on this issue.

Boothe, there's no doubt that Bonds had the skill as a ball player to be great even before he took the clear and the cream. But would his head have blown to a circumference of a beach ball and would his performance have spiked at an age when most athletes are on the decline without taking 'roids? I just don't think so.

Barry Bonds = *

[Greji]

We're not talking about getting a conviction beyond reasonable doubt here, folks. The reported statements to the feds and Bonds' known links to Balco are enough to produce the doubt in the public's mind on this issue.

That's the point! "Reported statements" and "known links". This has been a media feast from the onset, because Bonds had not treated reporters with the "proper respect" they demand, if not just shunning them. So it has turned into an agenda with them to question everything about him.

Boothe, there's no doubt that Bonds had the skill as a ball player to be great even before he took the clear and the cream. But would his head have blown to a circumference of a beach ball and would his performance have spiked at an age when most athletes are on the decline without taking 'roids? I just don't think so.

You're wrong Bird, his head was "blown to a circumference of a beach ball" before this even started. But, spiking at that age would not even have been a question if this hadn't have been "blown" out by the press with their dislike for Bonds. Many players do play well at age and even "spike" late. But, first of all, Bonds is not very likeable as you can see from the people this board, but to say that all of what he has done is because of the roids without proof is still a bit overboard on a guy that is still playing reasonable ball and not been convicted of doing anything.

When you can prove he was on roids beyond some newspaper articles, not just "everybody believes", which is what the news is selling, I'll buy your "Barry Bonds = *".

Hell, in the old days of baseball before training was as strict as it is now, it was uppers to get you running for the day and barbs to kill all the pains from the knicks and bumps. But the stars in those days did not develop many assholes like Bonds is (or as he is at least portrayed) and nobody cared, so it never got reported anywhere.