Is Japanese culture on a downward spiral?

[Andocrates]

It seems to me (who works with teenage Japanese girls) that over the past several year there has been a marked decline in the quality of these kids, mostly in morality.

I wonder if this isnt a direct result of the bubble burst or the normal decadence that grips any great civilazation (such as America) over the course of a generation. I.E. the generation after ww2 was maybe the worst generation ever, Then the next one was better and the current one is better still.

[kotatsuneko]

think that started bout 1916 or thereabouts...

kots

[GomiGirl]

think that started bout 1916 or thereabouts...

kots

perhaps the day the black ships arrived.. the scurge of the FG was released!!! :P

[American Oyaji]

It's not just Japan.

When I came back to the United States in 2000, I suffered reverse culture shock.

The country I had left in 1992 had changed so much as to be almost unrecognizeable. The culture had changed so much in 8 years. It wasnt that I was different. The country was different as well.

My mother is a teacher at a middle school. And my dad is a substitute. They say its no wonder kids are going crazy. Girls wear less and less every year and boys and girls conduct in the halls is just short of intercourse in some cases, and the number of nooks and crannies in schools makes gettin it on so easy. I remember the fun I had in middle school and high school after hours. And kids these days are more sophisticated.

Its a worldwide problem guys. Not just our beloved Nippon.

[katakori]

same everywhere (in the "westernized countries" that is).
france's youth is totally f*cked up too.

i think it has to do with sex of course, but also brands and marketing.
in that aspect, japan being the queen of youth-targeted consumerism culture, perhaps it is going down faster. i don't really know what i'm talking about, of course, but it seems to me that playing tricks for your daily dose of crack is not very far from playing tricks for you louis vuitton bag... or for the latest pair of nike.

it's all about values and who taught them to you. and i think it would be wise to look at the schools and the parents to understand why the kids are getting no morals whatsoever.

[Rabid Nelson]

It's not a "decline in morals" as you say but a shifting in values. It's not a sign of the appocolypse but of continued post-industrial development. Remember, most of your lifestyles were considered unfathomably "immoral" or "ungodly" mere decades ago and still are by many.

I for one, don't mind, and am actually rather excited to be alive at this point in the world's history. I can't wait to see how things will evolve over the next few decades.

[American Oyaji]

In the next few decades...


The world will change more in the next 10 years or so than it did in the last 200.

You're gonna see Europe move in and rebuild Iraq.

Russia is gonna attack Israel all out with its Arab allies and get completely crushed in a one sided Israeli victory. The world will be bewildered by this.

The middle east is gonna boil over. Mark my words.

The end is coming.

[Resolute Optimist]

I'm not at all excited to be alive at this point in history. Although I can't think of another point in history when it was better or worse.
I agree with Andocrates that the baby boom generation is probably one of the worst. When you get past the teenage "my parents were hippies, how cool" phase and look at the heritage they have left us: terrible architecture, the belief that we live in peace (the famous peace that we are trying to preserve by not supporting the removal of Hussein), that sex should be au naturel (I think the thing that put a lot of people off in my age group was the eagerness our parents had at discussing it, doing it without discretion. After that it takes some effort to not conjure up the image of your parents standing by your bedside congratulating you...). They have transformed their kids into permanently depressed little cynics (when you hear umpteen times a day how wonderful the 60's were, how we'll never experience the "freedom" and creative buzz they did, how can they expect us to happy?).

[Big Booger]

you all are too moral.. hehehe

I say its good to express your sexual feelings, though I think puberty must have hit before it is healthy..


Nothing wrong with a little hanky panky... they are going to do it.. so why not just say yes

[Andocrates]

Sex is fun, exciting and healthy - the problem lies with too many partners too early in life. Because of the nature of sex the term casual sex is really a misnomer. When you have unprotected sex you really swap a lot of things including cells. Not only STD's but there are cell markers that you can pick up that give you real health problems for the rest of your life.

Not only that the emotional impact of too many partners can screw up your head big time. We all know girls that are sluts or yariman, I'm pretty sure those girls never intended to become sluts but no one talks about the addictive nature of sex. How do they feel about themselves at that moment they cross the line and start getting viewed as sex toys? What does that do to their ambitions and sense of self-worth? Girls should have some standards, even if it's 3 dates before sex - at least some sense of rules - it's when they have no rules that trouble starts.

Sex is only one part of life, when it becomes the focus of life the quality of a person begins to degrade.

But I was speaking about not just sex but this idea that Japanese teens have that they should live as wild as they can as early in life as they can because fun ends at 26years old. That's stupid - we have our entire lives ahead of us I see no reason to overdo things at an age where you are not really socially prepared for the consequences.

[GomiGirl]

Girls should have some standards, even if it's 3 dates before sex - at least some sense of rules - it's when they have no rules that trouble starts.

I agree but many people don't understand when the rules are different from "traditional" morals.. parents need to teach their kids the courage of their convictions, whatever they may be, as long as these convictions have been made by the individual... at the end of the day, the only person who has to live with your choices is you..

[katakori]

this applies not only to sexual behaviour and moral, but to all aspect of life in general...

[cstaylor]

Everytime I enjoy a hot shower, or take a pain-free 10 hour flight home, or exchange online messages with friends over a low-cost, high speed internet connection, I thank whatever is responsible for placing me in the late 20th century.

The future might be better, but I'm pretty happy to be in the here and now.

[Big Booger]

to each their own.. I don't see anything wrong with slutty behavior from both boys and girls.. as long as puberty has occurred.. It is natural.. animals do it.. are we any different?

Of course, caution should be taken in terms of disease and pregnancy, but other than that, let them get on it like a bunch of rabbits on viagra.

[kotatsuneko]

well sanmas palace was hilarious just now, no matter hihg or low, good tv is a great part of japanese culture.. and an invaluable teacher !

u got to love it tho, the next show , well in the first few mins weve had girls asked to cross their legs wearing mini skirts and a super bust close up ^^

things arent that bad after all..

[American Oyaji]

Booger ,
I've come to the opinion that you are an amoral individual.

[GomiGirl]

Booger ,
I've come to the opinion that you are an amoral individual.

Actually I must disagree.. BB has a wicked sense of humour and is a very funny guy.. he is often just stirring the pot..

Morals are a personal thing anyway...

[American Oyaji]

No, GG my dear. You are sadly mistaken.
Morals are NOT a personal thing. Morals are a standard by which people should live in order to live harmoniously with others.

[GomiGirl]

No, GG my dear. You are sadly mistaken.
Morals are NOT a personal thing. Morals are a standard by which people should live in order to live harmoniously with others.

But if my morals and your morals are different - who is correct and how do we sort out our differences? Duke it out? Me thinks I would lose big time as I am only a wee lassie and you are a tall strapping laddie. But does that make my morals inferior? I certainly do have morals but they certainly don't follow "traditional" judeo-christian thinking.

Somebody who is amoral is a real concern, but I think that BB does have them - they are just different to yours perhaps.

Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks.

I think people need to have respect for the laws of society, and more importantly, humanity, no matter what their background, creed, colour etc in order to live harmoniously.

[Rabid Nelson]

No, GG my dear. You are sadly mistaken.
Morals are NOT a personal thing. Morals are a standard by which people should live in order to live harmoniously with others.

If there is a specific absolute ruleset to live by, it's damn hard to figure out what it is. Unless, of course, you adhere to a specific religious dogma, but even then, you've got many, many different dogmas competing all claiming that their morals are THE morals.

I don't presume to know how someone "should" live their life, and I generally avoid the terms "right" and "wrong" when describing my value system. I don't think there's one "right" way to live your life, although there are certainly actions that generally bring certain consequences.

[Andocrates]

But there are basic rules of life. We all know it's wrong to
-kill someone,
-steal their belongings, (both of which are ok in the animal kingdom)
lie to people,
-sex with another persons spouse, a child or a corpse or an animal.

Sex of course has a million sub-morals based on all sorts of things - this is the main dilemma with morality.

[Rabid Nelson]

But there are basic rules of life. We all know it's wrong to
-kill someone,

Unless of course, it's "just" to kill them, i.e. death penalty or war. However, what a "just" killing is is highly up to debate. You could consider it just to kill your wife for cheating on you or just to kill someone who's killed someone else unjustly, or you may think any kind of killing, even of animals, is unconditionally unjust.

-steal their belongings, (both of which are ok in the animal kingdom)

How do you define property? Should you be allowed to do whatever you want to with information media you've purchased? Should the government make your old emission spewing car illegal and force you to give it up? Is unjust taxing stealing? Is eating a steak dinner then letting children in Africa starve stealing?

lie to people,

Unless, of course, you don't want to tell a person that they're ugly or you're a politician.

-sex with another persons spouse, a child or a corpse or an animal.

Sex of course has a million sub-morals based on all sorts of things - this is the main dilemma with morality.

You said it yourself, there's not really a consensus on sexual morality. Everything you listed is up to debate.

In conclusion, either there is no universal morality or no one knows for sure what it is. It's all interpertation.

[Buraku]

http://www.asahi.com/english/Herald-asahi/TKY200508060140.html
http://www.thetranscript.com/Stories/0,1413,103~9054~3008811,00.html
<insert new photos, not daily repeats>

http://www.fuckedgaijin.com/forum/album_pic.php?pic_id=40

[Buraku]

Nippon might delay Iraq Withdrawal
http://img34.exs.cx/img34/4026/iraq_in_the_firing_line_bag133.jpg


Japan pours another half a billion into Jihad-land...Koizumi approves 655 million dollar package for Iraq

No war in Iraq, say Japanese

Nothing to see.... move along folks

abu ghraib the Nippon guantanamo show !


IRAQ is not at war, insist Japan's schoolbook censors.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,18661737%255E31477,00.html
The publishers of a current affairs text have been instructed by the Education Ministry to remove a suggestion that Japanese troops were sent to southern Iraq in late 2003 while the country was in a state of war.

[jingai]

But if my morals and your morals are different - who is correct and how do we sort out our differences? Duke it out? Me thinks I would lose big time as I am only a wee lassie and you are a tall strapping laddie. But does that make my morals inferior? I certainly do have morals but they certainly don't follow "traditional" judeo-christian thinking.

Somebody who is amoral is a real concern, but I think that BB does have them - they are just different to yours perhaps.

Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks.

I think people need to have respect for the laws of society, and more importantly, humanity, no matter what their background, creed, colour etc in order to live harmoniously.

Politics is the place where we sort out these power relations and have to figure out if your personal behavior is important enough to society to regulate. Sometimes it is (homicide, drug use, etc), sometimes it isn't (very few sodomy/blue laws left in the US), and sometimes society hasn't sorted it out yet (in the US- gay marriage...).

Under US constitutional law there are "tests" like does government have a compelling interest in regulating something. With abortion, there's the right of the woman to privacy to be balanced against the interest of the state in not having its citizens arbitrarily killed. The balance struck was to define when life begins and say that at that point the interests of society (the state) outweighs the woman's individual right to privacy. Catholics and others think life begins at conception so they're not happy about this, and strong pro-choicers think women should have control over their bodies until birth, so they're not happy either. The rest of us can live with the compromise.

I don't think you can separate the laws of society from what is "moral," nor would you want to, as without agreed-to standards for conduct, how c ould you have a harmonious society? Of course the details of what is moral/legal will be fought over for the life of the country, but if we all agreed, where would the fun be?

[dimwit]

[SIZE="5"]THE DOG IS BACK:p [/SIZE]

[Greji]

[SIZE="5"]THE DOG IS BACK:p [/SIZE]

Ya gotta admit, that's one classy Wanchan!
Eat your heart out SG!

[maraboutslim]

I wonder if this isnt a direct result of the bubble burst or the normal decadence that grips any great civilazation

Ryu Murakami has a very interesting essay book on the topic of Japanese Society in the late 1990s - it came out right around the time that kid cut off the retarded kid's head and put it on the school fence post - about Japan having lost its way now that there was no national goal for people to work towards (and so on...). I highly recommend it, and could perhaps even be bothered to go dig it out to post the title of it if someone is interested. Each page had a piece of digital artwork and text in both japanese and english. I assume it was a rather limited printing but I bet one could be found in the used book shops in Jinbocho.

BTW, Rabid Nelson, two thumbs up!!