MOJ Website on fingerprinting/photos at Immigration from Nov 2007

[Hokuto-shinken]

[floatl][/floatl]Just wondering is anybody displeased about the new changes at immigration which will start form November.

If you have not seen it already, here is a link to the awful video http://nettv.gov-online.go.jp/prg/prg1203.html also there is some information about it on debito`s website at http://www.debito.org/index.php/?p=454

I think we are just giving up our rights in the form of our biometric data. By using images of 9.11 they believe it will make it much easier for people to give up their rights.

I am sure many of you have your own opinion on this. Please feel free to say how you feel about it and also to vote in my poll.

Thanks

[amdg]

Hate the idea. It also means I'll have to seperate from my wife when we go through immigration, and that kinda sucks.

So it's index fingers only huh? I'm thinking of ways to f#&k up the process but haven't had any great ideas yet. I was wondering if a really heavy duty sunscreen on your fingers would make it difficult for the machine to read, but I don't know enough about the machine itself yet.

Worst comes to worst - I'm going to cut up my fingerstips so they'll be all nice and scabby.

[Hokuto-shinken]

Hate the idea. It also means I'll have to seperate from my wife when we go through immigration, and that kinda sucks.

So it's index fingers only huh? I'm thinking of ways to f#&k up the process but haven't had any great ideas yet. I was wondering if a really heavy duty sunscreen on your fingers would make it difficult for the machine to read, but I don't know enough about the machine itself yet.

Worst comes to worst - I'm going to cut up my fingerstips so they'll be all nice and scabby.

I think carrying around a Gaijin card enough but this is a step too far.

Man you don`t have to cut up your fingertips! Seriously I do think it is a bad idea, and I really do wish that the Human Rights stops it from happening.

I am leaving Japan to go on a Christmas Holiday and am not really looking forward to what I will have to come back to at immigration. Even if you are a PR you will be split up from your family and getting your photo taken and fingers scanned.... you might as well give them a DNA sample as well.

[amdg]

I keeeed, I keeeed. I'm not going to cut up my fingers really, although I did entertain the thought for 0.009 seconds. (I may be eating something really sticky like toffee right before the scan though).

[Hokuto-shinken]

Glad to hear it

I know a few people who are not going to travel or leave the country until they take the machines away. Thats a good one about the toffee. I might try that myself ^-^

[Marvin Feltcher]

Even if you are a PR you will be split up from your family and getting your photo taken and fingers scanned.

Not quite. Permanent residents are exempt, I believe.

[Hokuto-shinken]

[Marvin Feltcher]

This was on the deibito website, but I hope you are right.

Shit, I hope I'm right, too.

[emperor]

I don't like it, but had to do the same for Fatherland Security when flying to JFK a few months ago.

Hopefully the J-Govt will do a better job of retaining our information than Softbank/YahooBB.

[Greji]

Not quite. Permanent residents are exempt, I believe.

I hope you're right on that too, Marvin. I don't care about the info. Hell, they already got my fingerprint and photograph, so that's no biggie. The US is doing everyone going into the states, so I don't figure a bitch would do to relieve anything. I just would hate to start going through the FG line again.

[Hokuto-shinken]

[Mike Oxlong]

Use a nice high-grit sandpaper to smooth those ridges & swirls

[kusai Jijii]

Its the world's worst kept secret that the J-Gov is convinced - despite the fact that to date all acts of domestic terrorism in Japan have been commited by Japanese nationals (that in itself a well documented fact) - that in this post 9-11 world some fruitcake doing the unthinkable is an inevitability here.

The only problem is that, despite the existence of the fuckin' fucked-up alien reg card system, the Justice ministry doesnt have a fuckin' clue about the FGs living here (legal or otherwise). So, the logic goes, they are are trying to build some fucked up (and complely useless) data base from scratch, so that when some idiot does something, at least they wont be caught with their pants totally down and will at least have some bullshit (and totally useless) data base to tell the public they are working from.

Talk about savin' fuckin' face! "Yokoso Japan!" indeed...Sheeezz.

Not that that isnt stating the fuckin' obvious or anything...

ps: rereading my post, thats a lot of "fucks"!

[Kuang_Grade]

I think most American`s are sort of used to having their fingerprints and mug shot taken.

Well, the US is only fingerprinting foreigners at arrival...Fingerprinting is also required as a part of the application process for citizenship. Outside working for the government/military or being arrested, native born US citizens are unlikely to have ever been fingerprinted.

Personally, I wouldn't be concerned if it was only the J government keeping the fingerprints but I'm resentful of the US getting them for "free" with the fourth amendment being bypassed because the fingerprints are being handed to the US government on a sliver plate by a foreign government.

[unkosando]

I really don't see what the problem is.

From now on if you are going to steal someting, just make sure you don't use your index fingers.

[kamome]

I'm late to this conversation, so maybe I've missed a point or two that separates the two examples, but isn't Japan just following the US's lead? The US earlier required all foreign entrants to have biometric data on their passports or else apply for a visa to enter the country. I don't see why Japan should have to follow less stringent rules when its own citizens are subjected to giving up their biometrics at US immigration.

[Hokuto-shinken]

Well, the US is only fingerprinting foreigners at arrival...Fingerprinting is also required as a part of the application process for citizenship. Outside working for the government/military or being arrested, native born US citizens are unlikely to have ever been fingerprinted.

Personally, I wouldn't be concerned if it was only the J government keeping the fingerprints but I'm resentful of the US getting them for "free" with the fourth amendment being bypassed because the fingerprints are being handed to the US government on a sliver plate by a foreign government.

Ahh, sorry about that. I thought the photo system was in America too. I thought I read about it somewhere..... Anyway, thanks for correcting me.

I do agree with the latter paragraph and I think it is really sad how our rights and personal information is so open for other governments organisations to view.

[Hokuto-shinken]

[emperor]

Use a nice high-grit sandpaper to smooth those ridges & swirls

following a quick, anesthetized surgical procedure: you could have customised detachable hands or digits made up for you (5 Dildos on each hand perhaps?)


but, then they'll just move on to scanning iris's

[dimwit]

Nice eyeball.

The issue for me is what do I do when I am traveling to and from Canada with my son? He is 8 and I am not going to go thru a different line thank you-fucken much.

[Greji]

[quote="Hokuto-shinken"]It’]

I don't know why this would be. If you are going to stay here for any extended period of time, they will have the same information anyway. This is the day and age of information and they will have it whether we like it or not. Gaijitoroku, insurance, driver's license, etc. You are already on file, so it shouldn't really be a biggy.

Having said that, if you want to be the one to start the anti-movement, I would remind you of the nisei girl (I forget her name, she was from the Yokohama/Kawasaki area) from the US who started the anti-finger print movement. She fought it through the courts for several years and successfully won. She won to the degree that we still get fingerprinted, she was arrested several times, spent some time in the butabako, was eventially expelled from Japan (refused re-entry) and lost her job. But I guess she won.

Countries have the right to set the laws for their citizens and visitors. We can bitch all we want, but we end up following along the dotted line or leave.

I still prefer the non-FG line.

[emperor]

Nice eyeball.

Go raibh maith agat
FYI that's Demolition Man
and a pen, not a screw

[TennoChinko]

Krazy glue on your fingertips ought to fuck up most scanners and readers .....

[Kuang_Grade]

[Hokuto-shinken]

I don't know why this would be. If you are going to stay here for any extended period of time, they will have the same information anyway. This is the day and age of information and they will have it whether we like it or not. Gaijitoroku, insurance, driver's license, etc. You are already on file, so it shouldn't really be a biggy.

Having said that, if you want to be the one to start the anti-movement, I would remind you of the nisei girl (I forget her name, she was from the Yokohama/Kawasaki area) from the US who started the anti-finger print movement. She fought it through the courts for several years and successfully won. She won to the degree that we still get fingerprinted, she was arrested several times, spent some time in the butabako, was eventially expelled from Japan (refused re-entry) and lost her job. But I guess she won.

Countries have the right to set the laws for their citizens and visitors. We can bitch all we want, but we end up following along the dotted line or leave.

I still prefer the non-FG line.

[floatl][/floatl]Gboothe, I do understand your point. The Japanese government and organisations have so much information on us anyway so it should not be a big problem giving your fingerprints and photo, right?

I guess for me, having never had to give up my fingerprints it is a bit of a big deal for me. If you committed a crime or are a suspect for crime you might expect your fingerprints to be taken and your photo to be taken. This is just a standard set of prints by using ink and a normal digital photograph.

What is different with the new proposed system? Well for a start it is a digital fingerprint which will be put on the Japanese database and shared with all other government organisations around the world openly. Also the photo is not a normal digital photo, it is a biometric face recognition and video identifying photo. They are not just taking your photo. They can extract a lot of data and it can be used in many video and photo recognition programs around the world. It is like having a kind of X-ray taken because the special camera reads the unique facial bone structure of every face. If somebody working for a government organisation or perhaps somebody in the wrong got hold of this technology, they could track you down by searching for your unique information over lots of different types of software and videos. They can watch you and follow you when you are shopping and when you are going on holiday though millions of CCTV cameras which use biometric technology and with are all linked up.

We all hope that our government and foreign government look after our data properly and it is not abused, but in this world where most of or credit card details are passed on to third companies willingly. I am sure that this system will be abused too. I do understand what you are saying, but in my eyes it is a biggy.

It is a bit sad about that story, of the girl who had to get deported. I think if people were at lease a little bit reluctant to give up their information, maybe the government would think twice about passing new laws without asking the population what they think. It is just too easy for them to pass laws that are not questioned.

The purpose of writing this thread was to try and open some people eyes on the new amendment in November and hopeful get more people talking about and maybe to get it withdrawn.

p.s I am very surprised that 33.33% of people (so far) don`t mind giving up their information and all they are really bothered about is using the tourist line.

[amdg]

[Hokuto-shinken]

[Greji]

The purpose of writing this thread was to try and open some people eyes on the new amendment in November and hopeful get more people talking about and maybe to get it withdrawn.

Debito is already on it. Check his home page. If it affects an FG, he is usually starting something on it (normally because it always seems to happen to him first and he's now a Japanese).

p.s I am very surprised that 33.33% of people (so far) don`t mind giving up their information and all they are really bothered about is using the tourist line.

This is probably again that those of us who have been here for along time have all our information from shoe size to fingerprints already recorded. It is and always has been available to other "responsible" governments upon the asking (if not to the highest bidder), but this is not going to be that much more of an undertaking unless we gotta get in the other stupid line. My wife gets printed and mug shot everytime we fly into the states. As bird says, regardless of how we feel about the JNs doing this, they weren't the first and I assume many more countries will be doing this in the immediate future.

[Mulboyne]

The purpose of writing this thread was to try and open some people eyes on the new amendment in November and hopeful get more people talking about and maybe to get it withdrawn.

We've had a few discussions on the board already since the proposal first came to light nearly three years ago.

What isn't clear yet is if the Japanese/re-entry permit lines will also be equipped with cameras and scanners to deal with foreign passport holders. If foreign residents are obliged to go through the other lines then I can imagine some complaints but, as far as I'm aware, all non-EU passport holders have to go through the slow lines in the UK even if they are residents so Japan wouldn't be operating outside international norms.

I'm no fan of the new proposals but the US introduced the system first and set a precedent which gave Japan the opening to do what they had always wanted to do under the cover of anti-terrorist measures.

The only way I can see this measure being overturned is if one of the following happens:

(1) Local lawyers groups mount a successful protest campaign or legal challenge.

(2) Visitor numbers to Japan decline sharply as people refuse to be fingerprinted.

(3) Asian nations like Korea, Taiwan and China introduce retaliatory fingerprinting for Japanese visitors.

(4) An immigration official leaks the data while sharing porn online.

It's possible that chaos at Narita might cause a rethink but that would more likely be a question of implementation rather than policy. In the meantime, the only way to avoid being fingerprinted is to boycott Japan which everyone is still free to do. For me, that would be cutting off my nose to spite my face.

[amdg]

(4) An immigration official leaks the data while sharing porn online.

That's not a laughing matter Mulboyne. I was absolutely distraught when I heard that sensitive Japanese military information was being shared with China via a porno swap. I mean can you imagine if China ever got a hold of Japan's helicopter fuck technology? (as promoted by Masamania)

Picture a billion Chinese in the helicopter fuck position and the whole of the eastern part of the continent ripping out of the earth. Be afraid. Be very afraid.