"The Louis Vuitton project is my Urinal!"

[Charles]

[SIZE="3"]Takashi Murakami interview in The Art Newspaper[/SIZE]



"The Louis Vuitton project is my Urinal!"

Takashi Murakami is the West's favourite Japanese artist, a spiritual heir of Warhol who has expanded into merchandising as an art form, quoting Duchamp as his model?

Takashi Murakami has been called Tokyo's son of Warhol, but the scope of this most protean and dynamic of artists would be the envy of Andy.

Murakami's Kaikai Kiki corporation, which has branches in Tokyo and Long Island City, New York, combines the roles of studio, PR company, art factory and seed bed for young artists.

Its prodigious output ranges from highly priced and highly sought-after paintings and sculpture-collected by the likes of Francois Pinault-and luxury collaborations with Marc Jacobs and Louis Vuitton, to more affordable low-cost products covered with Murakami's cheerily bitter-sweet cartoonish imagery combining manga with a substantial dose of Disney.

Now the many modes of Murakami are being shown in a big retrospective opening this month at MOCA Los Angeles (29 October-11 February 2008), an exhibition that has aroused controversy even before its opening by including a fully functional Louis Vuitton boutique among its exhibits.

(lengthy interview follows the jump)

[Charles]

(The rest of the interview, since the link will go dead soon)

The Art Newspaper: In addition to your paintings and sculpture you are known as the maker of multifarious goods-mouse mats, tee shirts, key rings, mobile phone accessories-and the second section of the MOCA exhibition is entirely devoted to your merchandise and multiples.

Do you see fine art and product design and merchandising as almost interchangeable? Takashi Murakami: My background is in Japan and I think that Japan is completely different to Western society.

After World War II, Japan was what I call "superflat".

The social feeling was flat, the community was flat, it was a flat culture and a flat market with no hierarchies.

The tax system made it impossible to hand on money to the next generation and to create rich people, so this meant that there was no art world because it is the rich who buy art.

This is why Japanese people love brands, especially famous brands like Vuitton or Gucci; it is because we cannot produce hierarchies and we cannot understand those barriers.

So I came to the US and to Europe where these cultures still have big social hierarchies and I could get involved in the art world where there were people who could buy my pieces at high prices.

TAN: You are also a painter, a sculptor, curator, and many other things.

TM: I can do that, but my background is as a flat artist, a very low level artist.

I am not an artist, I am an artisan, a craftsman.

That's why I don't care about high and low.

Expensive things and cheap things can be on the same level.

Right now, in the auction house fine art is super-expensive but after 500 years, merchandising and fine art go to the same level.

TAN: But you trained at the Tokyo National University of Fine Arts and Music.

Doesn't this mean that you had a specialist fine art training?

TM: I trained just in drawing and painting, the technique, not the concept.

After I graduated I started to learn about the history and concepts of Western art.

TAN: What made you want to become an artist?

TM: When I was in high school I was so stupid that the only option open for me was to become an artist.

TAN: When you organised your "Superflat" exhibition in 2000 it seemed as if you made a point of tracing what you call your "Superflat" art back into historical and even ancient Japanese tradition, so do you see yourself as part of a continuum of Japanese culture?

TM: I think so, I hope so.

I know that, point by point, I have to make a line in history, but I only really know about two points.

I have to learn much more.

TAN: Which are the points that appeal to you?

TM: I am interested in the 17th century.

Historians know the point and the timeline so they can make a mix and mesh together these lines to make a story, a scenario, but my story or scenario is more like a puzzle and the audience can understand and enjoy that I take this point here and that point there and they can complete it.

This is my way and that's why I cannot say I am a complete follower of Japanese tradition.

TAN: Do you feel your work has any relationship with the work of the Japanese artists designated as Living National Treasures, who act as custodians of those practices, whether painters or makers of ceramics, lacquer or paper, and who bring their own vision to these traditional techniques of Japanese art?

TM: I don't have much of a notion of Living National Treasures.

I don't think of them consciously and as such I don't think much about my relationship to them, although I trained in the traditional way.

TAN: How do you feel when people describe you as the Japanese successor to Andy Warhol?

TM: It's OK! Who knows, when I die maybe they will say about some Russian or Indian artist, "Oh you are the Russian or Indian Takashi Murakami!" My work is colourful and looks like pop art, so I won't escape from Andy Warhol, and that can be good and bad.

TAN: What was the philosophy behind setting up your company Kaikai Kiki Co, which is now a very large corporation devoted to art production and art management?

TM: My company name, Kaikai Kiki, comes from the 16th century, when the Kano painting school was set up by that genius Eitoku Kano.

Some critics at the time said, "Oh, this art is 'kaikai kiki'?", which can mean curious and great, sexy and scary, interesting and bullshit and-it looks like, wow! I wanted to use creative people to make this new Kano school with mixed ideas because I honestly thought that the Japanese can not create fine art, but craftsmanship we can do.

In Western culture a fine artist has to be individual and independent and produce revolutionary ideas but I don't think so with Japanese artists: they can make good quality things that are really beautiful and comfortable, which is what suits Japanese people.

TAN: There has been some controversy over the decision to put a Louis Vuitton store selling your merchandise for the company at the centre of the MOCA show.

Why was it important to have this store in your show?

TM: What is contemporary art?

This question comes back to Marcel Duchamp and the readymade, a concept that provides many more opportunities for expansion.

The Louis Vuitton project is another possibility; the Louis Vuitton project is my Urinal! Our generation of artists is constantly comparing itself with Duchamp, and asking, how do you produce?

For example, Maurizio Cattelan never wants to touch any of the pieces he makes; he just makes a small drawing, a telephone call, an email and that's it.

So, back to the history of Duchamp and with Andy Warhol expanding this idea, many contemporary artists just offer [their work] to the fabricator and this idea can continue to be expanded.

[Charles]

(Part 3, the end of the interview)

TAN: Is it ever important to you to put your hand to any of the pieces that carry your name?

TM: No, I just do the checking.

Just like Pixar Films: I check the computer graphics, the -animation stuff, the merchandise, the posters, the advertising.

TAN: Do you believe that it is difficult nowadays to continue creating art without a sense of business or management?

TM: Officially yes, but it's good and bad.

Take the example of Picasso.

He was a super-good businessman! It was just important that he signed his name.

TAN: What do you feel about today's crazy market?

TM: In the early 90s the music industry was rapidly expanding, with the link to MTV and the internet and sales for CDs, and shops like Virgin Megastore and Tower Records; by the 90s the infrastructure was all in place.

Then a few years later it looked as though it was going to shrink, and now it is slower but stable.

That process also applies to the art market: there is a super-big boom and two to three years later it goes a little more slowly but there is not a crash.

TAN: Do you really think that art is the same kind of commodity as music?

Surely art is unique whereas music is infinitely reproducible and downloadable?

TM: No, they are exactly the same! How musicians survive now is by making a concert and from the sales of tee shirts, the merchandise-not just the sales of music.

In the near future maybe artists will satisfy the market by selling merchandise because there are not so many original pieces.

Damien Hirst, Jeff Koons and I try to create many pieces, but the market is bigger and bigger and so we have to find out a way to share all these things, so we make merchandise or sign posters-we have to survive.

TAN: Why did you choose to have a show with Gagosian Gallery last year?

TM: The Gagosian Gallery is the equivalent to 20th-Century Fox, which creates movies but with many different directors, scenario writers and actors, and each of them has his agents and also different projects.

Gagosian has many galleries worldwide so that he can work with many people.

TAN: In that Gagosian show your more cartoon-like characters gave way to a series of monumental portraits of Daruma, the founder of Zen Buddhism.

You also inaugurated the show with a traditional tea ceremony.

Is this a return to a more spiritual, contemplative approach?

TM: I tend to mix my art with themes of war.

My very early pieces used toy soldiers and later I made children's backpacks taken from Dutch soldiers.

The beginnings of Buddhist religion in sixth-century Japan, when Daruma's philosophy and the tea ceremony became popular, also coincided with a time of violent conflict and civil war.

So that's why I made the Daruma portraits for America, because the reality in the US now is that they are still waging war.

Many of America's rich people are very involved in the war because they can make money from war.

And my customers are these rich people and the Buddhist philosophy really appeals to them; they want to have a peaceful heart and Daruma's philosophy is just see yourself, no answer.

So I felt that the Daruma portraits were very fitting for US customers.

TAN: For the Gagosian tea ceremony you also used a piece from your own collection, a valuable bowl by the early 20th-century ceramicist Kitaoji Rosanjin.

Why did you decide to use this piece?

TM: That tea bowl was very expensive because the dealer cheated me! But I bought it and I kept it and I was so happy, even though I understood it was a cheat! And I thought, oh my God, that is my reality! What is real, what is fake?

That is my question at any time.

The prices for my pieces are too high; they are too expensive, but because my prices are so high, I was able to buy that cheating tea bowl! And so I brought it to Gagosian Gallery where my pieces are being sold to say, this is my reality!

TAN: What do you think of Damien Hirst's diamond skull which has reportedly been sold for $100m?

TM: It's amazing! I love the idea.

Everyone can understand that it is controversial and everyone can understand diamonds.

He wants to make history and he needs the money-and what a way to make an experimental statement-it's a big scenario.

I love the whole project!

TAN: You've just done all the artwork for hip-hop artist Kanye West's new album.

How did this come about?

TM: When Kanye West was in Japan his manager contacted us and visited my studio.

I didn't know who Kanye West was but I went on the internet and bought some CDs and then he came to my studio.

He was very excited and wanted to do something with me and it was a very easy conversation.

Then when I went to Los Angeles I went to the recording studio and showed him my prototype for the album cover and he liked it...His style is unique but our stuff is very confusing because each time he had a different opinion we had to change our design.

It's so difficult, but, you know, I'm an artisan; I can follow instructions.

TAN: Do you really see yourself in that light?

TM: In the 19th century, with Cartier and Louis Vuitton it was just rich people asking could you make us jewellery or a watch, a bag...and the company saying yes.

My standpoint is just the same.

TAN: Illegal versions of your product designs, especially for Louis Vuitton, proliferate across the globe.

Does that worry you?

TM: Officially I have to say that I don't like it, but the fact that there are so many fans for the product is great!

[Ptyx]

i didn't know Murakami was aware of his own bullshit. Now let's hope everyone start to listen to what he's actually saying, he's Sanryo wrapped in hype.

[prolly]

i remember coalgula magazine from back when i was a struggling artist - i loved charlie finch's dead-on screeds and i continue to do so.
an old article from 2003:

http://www.artnet.com/Magazine/FEATURES/finch2/finch11-20-03.asp

in fact, you could take the first few minutes of this video interview where Mat Gleason talks about street-artist Shepard Fairey and just replace him with the name Murakami. Scroll down to the video near the bottom of the page for the Art or Not vid:


http://www.ovationtv.com/artornot/?bcpid=1137732933&bclid=1125842017&bctid=1137812166

[Charles]

i didn't know Murakami was aware of his own bullshit. Now let's hope everyone start to listen to what he's actually saying, he's Sanryo wrapped in hype.

I saw nothing in that interview, or anything else I've read from Murakami, that would indicate he's aware he's full of crap. Quite the contrary, he takes himself quite seriously.
People constantly compare him to Warhol, but there's a major difference, Warhol was a very talented artist who completely gave up traditional artforms to do performance artworks about commerce. Murakami is a talentless hack. And once Warhol did his thing, nobody else could do it. That's the worst thing you can ever say to an artist about his work, "it's been done before."

[Ptyx]

"my background is as a flat artist, a very low level artist.
I am not an artist, I am an artisan, a craftsman."

"it was just rich people asking could you make us jewellery or a watch, a bag...and the company saying yes.
My standpoint is just the same."

"I'm an artisan; I can follow instructions."

Maybe i'm putting too much thoughts into this but to me he's really saying : "i'm not an artist i'm a graphic designer/marketing director/CEO ?"
And that's exactly how i considered him all these years, exactly like Shepard Fairey and the like.
I used to be pissed at Murakami because i though he was considering himself otherwise but that interview is a proof to the contrary.

[Ol Dirty Gaijin]

Murakami is a talentless hack."

Why do you think so?

As far as I know, Murakami has created icons with his characters which is a bit above the level of hack. To give yourself a title of a "superflat" artist is no worse or better than taking the inspiration of your "art" from a flower or a vacuum cleaner.

Why isn't a graphic designer/marketing director/CEO an artist?

[Taro Toporific]

Murakami REVOKed
Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 6:00 pm
In the early morning hours in mid-December, an amazing masterpiece of epic pink proportions appeared above the Melrose strip. Not MOCA's Murakami billboard itself, but rather a young curator's fantasy art show: "Murakami/AUGER/REVOK." The spectacle lasted two days, and then it was gone. For most of us who missed it entirely, the billboard became art-opening gossip - already a mythic achievement - and yet another coup pulled off by a couple of L.A.'s most prolific and talented AWR/MSK writers. Luckily, REVOK carried his camera that day, and L.A. Weekly received the photo; we were wowed. So, it turns out, was Murakami, whose Kaikai Kiki studio found the evidence via the Internet and had the billboard surreptitiously removed. Murakami buffing billboards all the way from Japan? On the contrary, according to his representatives, he found it "so wonderful, he had to have it for his collection." Our billboard is now on its way to Tokyo.

[Catoneinutica]

Why do you think so?

As far as I know, Murakami has created icons with his characters which is a bit above the level of hack. To give yourself a title of a "superflat" artist is no worse or better than taking the inspiration of your "art" from a flower or a vacuum cleaner.

Why isn't a graphic designer/marketing director/CEO an artist?

Murakami strikes me as being an expert craftsman who's also a genius at self-promotion and who knows how to feather his nest. In this respect I'd assume his paradigm is the Godfather of Pop Self-Promoting Pop Artists, Andy Warhol. The element of "artistic inspiration" in his works, to the extent that it exists, eludes me, but then again, a lot of things elude me. I do know that a lot of more conservative Japanese folks find it kind of embarrassing that Murakami is so popular.

[Captain Japan]

The New Yorker has a review of his show at the Brooklyn Museum...
Flower Power
New Yorker

My favorite part of “©Murakami,” a retrospective at the Brooklyn Museum of the juggernautish Japanese artist-entrepreneur Takashi Murakami, was the most controversial element in the show when it originated, at the Museum of Contemporary Art in Los Angeles, last October: a functioning Louis Vuitton outlet, smack in the middle of things, selling aggressively pricey handbags and other bibelots, all Murakami-designed. (Vuitton has reportedly done hundreds of millions of dollars’ worth of business in Murakamiana since its deal with the artist began, in 2003.) The shop is lovely. Shelving units in chrome and white enamel, with recessed fluorescent lighting that sets brass fittings on the merchandise aglint, caress the eye. They provide a haven from the strident grotesquerie of what might be termed Murakami’s fine-art product lines: paintings, sculpture, and wallpapered environments that play off the charms of Japanese traditional and popular arts with close to no charm of their own. But, then, retail swank is an aesthetic lingua franca today, and equations of art and commerce, pioneered by Andy Warhol and colonized by Jeff Koons, among others, are, at least, familiar. The show’s less cozy aspects remind me that I have never been to Japan. I don’t like Murakami’s work, but my dislike, being moody, feels out of scale with the artist’s terrific energy and ambition. For the second time in a couple of months―the first being at the Guggenheim retrospective of the meteoric Chinese festivalist Cai Guo-Qiang―New Yorkers have a chance to absorb our new geo-spiritual fate, as provincials in a world of creative paradigms that no longer entreat our favor. That has to be good for us....more...

[Charles]

[Takechanpoo]

American dudes who appriciate Murakami's works are nothing but single-cell morons. Murakami's works, which are not appriciated in Japan at all, are shits merely drawn by otaku flavor sketch.

[Catoneinutica]

He may have Warhol-ian intentions, but Murakami strikes me more as this decade's Peter Max.