Mandatory pregnancy, abortion adoption thread

[canman]

But he is 6"10'. I can attest to that. He used to work next door to me, when he was a Nova Instructor.

[FG Lurker]

He's said as tall as 6'10" with a 9" cock. I find that hard to believe considering he's into anime and aikido

A 6'10" pussy... Scary.

Edit: I shouldn't be quite so harsh... AO seems like a nice guy, he just seems to think that men should do whatever women want. I disagree. If men and women are going to be equals then there shouldn't be special cases one way or the other. If a person (man or woman) is totally set on doing something then they need to be prepared to accept the responsibility for whatever it is they do. I don't see why pregnancy should be treated differently than any other very serious life-changing event.

[Samurai_Jerk]

A 6'10" pussy... Scary.

Edit: I shouldn't be quite so harsh... AO seems like a nice guy, he just seems to think that men should do whatever women want. I disagree. If men and women are going to be equals then there shouldn't be special cases one way or the other. If a person (man or woman) is totally set on doing something then they need to be prepared to accept the responsibility for whatever it is they do. I don't see why pregnancy should be treated differently than any other very serious life-changing event.

You are correct, sir!

[GomiGirl]

We are getting into a whole new area here. Men and women will never be physically equal.

[ttjereth]

If men and women are going to be equals then there shouldn't be special cases one way or the other. If a person (man or woman) is totally set on doing something then they need to be prepared to accept the responsibility for whatever it is they do. I don't see why pregnancy should be treated differently than any other very serious life-changing event.

gentleman=chauvinist=sexist

I used to love (not really) having this discussion in University (and afterwards with retarded JET ALTs) when women wanted "equal rights and treatment" but still wanted a man who would hold the door open for them, and do the disgusting stuff around the house (like taking care of dead mice)...

[Iraira]

We are getting into a whole new area here. Men and women will never be physically equal.

I dunno, some of those 'roided Bulgarian weightlifting chicks are the last "guys" that I'd ever try to disrespect. I do so here, safe behind the anonymous cloak of the internet.

[American Oyaji]

he just seems to think that men should do whatever women want.

How the hell did you extrapolate that?

Instead of attacking my character, point out the flaw in my argument.
That goes for you too SJ.

[Samurai_Jerk]

How the hell did you extrapolate that?

Instead of attacking my character, point out the flaw in my argument.
That goes for you too SJ.

Point out the flaw in my argument. I'm saying everyone should have equal reproductive rights under the law. You're saying only women have the right to choose.

[FG Lurker]

We are getting into a whole new area here. Men and women will never be physically equal.

I don't want to be physically equal -- I sure as hell hope that never happens!

I just think that if a woman refuses to accept input from her male partner then she should be willing to accept sole responsibility for her decision.

[FG Lurker]

How the hell did you extrapolate that?

From reading your posts. You might wish to re-read them yourself...

Instead of attacking my character, point out the flaw in my argument.

Your argument is fundamentally flawed. You believe that people (in this case men) should be held responsible for other people's decisions (in this case women) even though they have no control over (or even input into) those decisions.

If a women goes out and runs down bunch of people after arguing with her boyfriend should the boyfriend be held responsible? NO! If a guy goes postal and blows away a bunch of people after his girlfriend dumps him is that her fault? NO! People should be held responsible for the decisions they make no matter how they got to the point of making those decisions.

[FG Lurker]

I used to love (not really) having this discussion in University (and afterwards with retarded JET ALTs) when women wanted "equal rights and treatment" but still wanted a man who would hold the door open for them, and do the disgusting stuff around the house (like taking care of dead mice)...

I'm happy to hold doors, help with coats, kill cockroaches, whatever.

Just don't ask me to pay $1000/month (or whatever it is now) for 18 years without giving me any input into the decision to have/not have an unplanned kid.

[kamome]

AO: Here's the flaw in your argument (which is basically the same theme from FGL's posts): What you are saying is that men must take responsibility for their own actions. But then you say that women should be able to take action (i.e., carrying the pregnancy to term) but then foist the responsibility for that action on the man. There's no symmetry there. Man's action = man's responsibility; woman's action = man's responsibility?

In other words, you are giving women a loophole so that they can abdicate responsibility but men don't get the same. It makes no sense to me.

[ttjereth]

I'm happy to hold doors, help with coats, kill cockroachs, whatever.

Just don't ask me to pay $1000/month (or whatever it is now) for 18 years without giving me any input into the decision to have/not have an unplanned kid.

Me too, well not the cockroaches, goddamn mutant monster Tokyo bugs...

I don't believe in "equality between the sexes" as is commonly described, because unfortunately what a lot of people who scream about equality want is special treatment, like for example being treated equal by men in all aspects, but at the same time still expecting them to hold doors open for women, having to speak in certain ways/avoid certain topics in public etc.

My only difference with most of the people arguing along those lines is that were most are arguing about not having responsibility for a baby the woman decides to keep and the guy doesn't want, I tend to be more focused on the woman unilaterally deciding she doesn't want a kid against the guy's wishes, which is really similar to the opposite case. In the guy's situation he gets burdened with unwanted financial obligations, in the woman's situation (although it will never happen) she would be burdened with having to carry the child to term and birth it.

I just don't understand why a guy is forced to have responsibility for a kid when he doesn't want it but the girl does, but the opposite doesn't hold true and most people who believe the man "has a responsiblity" to uphold even if he doesn't want the kid, don't seem to feel the same way when the guy wants it and the woman doesn't.

[American Oyaji]

I'm saying a man should choose to step up no matter what. She did not get pregnant by herself.

By the same token, a man has no control over what a woman will do after she's pregnant.

If a man does not want to become obligated over an unwanted, he should be more careful.

It's a freaking cop out to sleep with a woman and KNOW that if anything goes wrong a child could be convieved but still say one does not want a child.

By the same token, a woman knows damn well that she could get pregnant. Birth control after the fact is selfish and callous.

Or maybe I'm just a relic of a time gone by. Should not be though.

[FG Lurker]

I'm saying a man should choose to step up no matter what. She did not get pregnant by herself.

I've added a bit of emphasis here for you.

She did not get pregnant by herself, she does not want to raise the child by herself (financially speaking), why the fuck should she be able to make the decision to have/not have the child by herself! If she wants sole control, she should take sole responsibility. I'm not sure how much simpler I can make this concept...

By the same token, a man has no control over what a woman will do after she's pregnant.

If someone has absolutely no control, not even any input, they should not bear responsibility for the outcome.

If a man does not want to become obligated over an unwanted, he should be more careful.

It's a freaking cop out to sleep with a woman and KNOW that if anything goes wrong a child could be convieved but still say one does not want a child.

Everyone should be careful. But guess what? Casual sex happens. Condoms break. Things go wrong. You may not like that, and your belief in imaginary deities may tell you that sex is evil and wrong. It still doesn't change the fact that people who make unilateral decisions should accept complete responsibility.

By the same token, a woman knows damn well that she could get pregnant. Birth control after the fact is selfish and callous.

Expecting someone else to take responsibility for your unilateral decision is selfish. Giving birth to an unwanted child is callous.

Or maybe I'm just a relic of a time gone by. Should not be though.

What "time gone by"? There is a very high likelihood that your grandparents (or their friends) had casual sex and faced similar problems... We tend to romanticize the past and believe that people of past generations were somehow "better" than us.

[GomiGirl]

I don't want to be physically equal -- I sure as hell hope that never happens!

Amen to that my friend. I like being a girl and looking like one too.

However, being weaker physically does come with the burden of stronger people trying to control what you do and think. This is why we sometime rebel and stand up for ourselves in areas that are important - eg what happens in our bodies. Just saying....

[FG Lurker]

Amen to that my friend. I like being a girl and looking like one too.

Happy to hear you say that! I've never understood why some women think they need to act and look like men in order to be "equal" to men in some way.

My personal belief is that men and women are very different but should have exactly the same rights and opportunities.

However, being weaker physically does come with the burden of stronger people trying to control what you do and think. This is why we sometime rebel and stand up for ourselves in areas that are important - eg what happens in our bodies. Just saying....

I have absolutely no problem with that -- it is your body after all. I just have a problem if you want me to be responsible for what you choose to do.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Again, very well said FGL. The problem is we're arguing based on sound logic. People on the other side are arguing based on beliefs about honor, right and wrong, etc. Logic may win in debate club, but in the real world it's near impossible to overcome firmly held beliefs with logic.

The problem with women (in the North America at least) is that when it comes to rights, they want to have their cake and eat it too.

[GomiGirl]

Happy to hear you say that! I've never understood why some women think they need to act and look like men in order to be "equal" to men in some way.

My personal belief is that men and women are very different but should have exactly the same rights and opportunities.

I have absolutely no problem with that -- it is your body after all. I just have a problem if you want me to be responsible for what you choose to do.

You will have no arguments from me on any of these points.

This argument could go on and on in ever increasing circles. However, the only thing I would really object to is somebody trying to strong arm me into something I wasn't prepared or happy to do.

Women have been putting up with *some* men acting like control freaks for centuries. I think this is what the argument is mainly about.. women doing something that may not have been previously sanctioned by the men in their lives and the men not liking it and kicking up a stink as they are not really able to control this. The view from the other side is not as fun.

[GomiGirl]

The problem with women (in the North America at least) is that when it comes to rights, they want to have their cake and eat it too.

See this sort of put down is really not helpful. From a woman's point of view, men have been "having their cake and eating it too" since Adam was a lad. You must be able to see this just a little bit and understand the frustration. Sure now there are too many angry and loud women but in this modern day and age, there is still not equality despite all the efforts, discussions and laws. These loud angry women are frustrated and are trying to be heard - albeit in a somewhat misguided way IMHO.

I vote to scrap all of this name calling, finger pointing and double standards and to start afresh with mutual respect and consideration of facts and logic.

[Greji]

Women have been putting up with *some* men acting like control freaks for centuries.

This is true, but I wonder what the percentages are for those women vs. the famous "hen-pecked" husbands. A large number of women love to control a guy who is gullible, or shy enough to allow it. However, these don't get any PR other than in some stand-up comic's routine.

But, let a girl, famous or otherwise, get the wrong end of the stick from some male slug, and watch out for the headlines! It would seem that only women have the right (or have the balls?) to bitch about this.

I would actually not be surprised if the percentages were actually pretty close.

[FG Lurker]

Again, very well said FGL. The problem is we're arguing based on sound logic. People on the other side are arguing based on beliefs about honor, right and wrong, etc.

Agreed 100%.

However.....The flip-side to all of my above statements is that if I did knock someone up (and then found out about it later) I would step up and take responsibility. I can afford to do that and would be happy to as long as I can take some part in the kid's life. I just don't think that anyone should be forced to if they have not had input into the decisions made.

Logic may win in debate club, but in the real world it's near impossible to overcome firmly held beliefs with logic.

Sad but true. Especially with religious nutbars, trying to talk logic is much like talking to a brick wall. Actually, talking to a wall is probably preferable -- at least it doesn't come back with responses based on crazy beliefs in imaginary deities.

The problem with women (in the North America at least) is that when it comes to rights, they want to have their cake and eat it too.

Agreed 100% here too.

[FG Lurker]

See this sort of put down is really not helpful. From a woman's point of view, men have been "having their cake and eating it too" since Adam was a lad. You must be able to see this just a little bit and understand the frustration. Sure now there are too many angry and loud women but in this modern day and age, there is still not equality despite all the efforts, discussions and laws. These loud angry women are frustrated and are trying to be heard - albeit in a somewhat misguided way IMHO.

I think what SJ means is that a lot of North American women want to be treated the same as men, but they still want men to be chivalrous gentlemen. From a man's perspective this is impossible. If we offer to help we're chauvinist bastards. If we don't offer we're mannerless bastards. Great! Lose-lose.

I vote to scrap all of this name calling, finger pointing and double standards and to start afresh with mutual respect and consideration of facts and logic.

This gets my vote!

[GomiGirl]

This is true, but I wonder what the percentages are for those women vs. the famous "hen-pecked" husbands. A large number of women love to control a guy who is gullible, or shy enough to allow it. However, these don't get any PR other than in some stand-up comic's routine.

I will not disagree with you - it is sad.

I am sure those hen-pecked husbands then head off to work and treat their office ladies badly. The sexes have been behaving badly to each other for a very long time. It is a vicious cycle.

This is why I said it would be good to start afresh with mutual respect.

[Greji]

This is why I said it would be good to start afresh with mutual respect.

Never had a goat talk back to me!

[Samurai_Jerk]

See this sort of put down is really not helpful. From a woman's point of view, men have been "having their cake and eating it too" since Adam was a lad. You must be able to see this just a little bit and understand the frustration. Sure now there are too many angry and loud women but in this modern day and age, there is still not equality despite all the efforts, discussions and laws. These loud angry women are frustrated and are trying to be heard - albeit in a somewhat misguided way IMHO.

I vote to scrap all of this name calling, finger pointing and double standards and to start afresh with mutual respect and consideration of facts and logic.

FGL already did a pretty good job, but let me clarify.

First of all this is not a put down. This is something I truly believe. Women in the US harp on about equality, but still want guys to do the heavy lifting and bring home the bacon. They say men have to treat them with respect but have no problem getting in a guy's face and telling him off in public.

There's a phenomenon in the US right now where women think that guys will take anything they throw at them and they act accordingly. When I was back in the US I saw girls in bars step to a guys and yell at them like they were challenging them to a fight for stupid shit like accidentally bumping them and making their beer spill. They do this because they know most guys will just hold their head down, apologize, and walk away.

Then they try it on me and get a different reaction and don't know how to handle it. I don't touch them or physically threaten them. I just put some bass in my voice and remind them that they should be careful who the fuck they talk to like that. It's funny watching them run to their pussy-whipped boyfriends for help.

[American Oyaji]

OK. Back to brass tacks. I think I'm confusing you guys.

I believe men and women should behave more circumspectly when it comes to sex. That's my opinion.

That being said.

However, the truth is that men do not control ANYTHING that happens after intercourse has taken place. It's all on the woman's side. Men would LIKE to have some input, but the truth is the since women bear the burden physically independent of the man, it's not even really possible for a man to legally control the outcome if she doesn't want to do as he wishes.

Sure we'd like to have equal sayso in that outcome, but we DON'T. Nor will we ever. We cannot force a woman to carry a baby full term. If we did, she just might hole herself up in her room an user her stomach as a punching bag until she aborts.

THUS, if a man wants to avoid being financially responsible for a child he does not want, he should think before he lays pipe. Once the deed is done, he can't legally control what happens.

[Greji]

he should think before he lays pipe

I always do. It's just that at that particular time, all my brains have been quickly relocated to the ped of my hecker.

[American Oyaji]

I always do. It's just that at that particular time, all my brains have been quickly relocated to the ped of my hecker.

You're incorrigible boothie.

[Greji]

You're incorrigible boothie.

Hehehe... I studied under Taro!