Fighter jet crashes on takeoff

[kurohinge1]

[SIZE="4"]How do you like your F2 Pilot - medium rare?[/SIZE]

(I only joke because they're both reported to be OK)


Mitsubishi F-2s

A Japanese fighter jet [reported by other agencies to be an F-2, possibly being operated by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries] crashed on take-off and went up in flames at an airport in central Japan today, lightly injuring the two pilots, news reports said.

Footage on commercial broadcaster TV Asahi showed the jet take off from the runway in Nagoya, only to suddenly tip downward and quickly catch fire as it skidded along the ground in flames.

The aircraft was believed to be a Japanese air force fighter jet, public broadcaster NHK said, citing airport officials.

. . . The two crew members were taken to a hospital with non-life threatening injuries, Kyodo News agency and TV Asahi said, citing local police . . . more

Maybe someone can track down the vision mentioned . . .

. . .

[Greji]

Maybe someone can track down the vision mentioned . . .
. . .

This is the only thing I could find and it looks like it will take a couple of golf outings by the JASDF higher echelons to find out what happened!

(Page takes awhile to load. Kinda like me)

[Doctor Stop]

I thought they were supposed to be used for defensive purposes only.

[Buraku]

Was he trying to do a steep take-off with a 600 gal fuel tank under the belly ?

http://mediacenter.corriere.it/MediaCenter/action/player?uuid=d6dde9b0-878c-11dc-88b4-0003ba99c53b&rcsrid=vaschettaMC_corriere_3

Banzai !

[IkemenTommy]

Somebody's been practicing the kamikaze run?

[Charles]

I thought they were supposed to be used for defensive purposes only.

Judging from the pictures, the F-2 is now defending a patch of turf just off the end of the runway.

[Greji]

Was he trying to do a steep take-off with a 600 gal fuel tank under the belly ?

http://mediacenter.corriere.it/MediaCenter/action/player?uuid=d6dde9b0-878c-11dc-88b4-0003ba99c53b&rcsrid=vaschettaMC_corriere_3

Banzai !

Tsuru, what's your take on it? Looks like he might have flamed out, or froze up right on gear up....hence the belly flop. Didn't look like he drove into the ground.

[sublight]

From the video it looks like he got up and level, then suddenly tipped down again and smacked the runway.

No idea what caused it.

[DrP]

looks like he lost n2 right at vr -- nasty.

[Tsuru]

Tsuru, what's your take on it? Looks like he might have flamed out, or froze up right on gear up....hence the belly flop. Didn't look like he drove into the ground.

Took me a while to get the video working, but here it is.

Doesn't look like the crew did this intentionally as they didn't bail out, and the engine was still running when the aircraft impacted the runway so that leaves only one option... something went very wrong with the plane's flight control computers and/or flight controls. The fact this flight was operated by the manufacturer and not by the ASDF might be a clue that they were trying out a new and improved version of their flight control system that ended up breaking the airplane.
With fly-by-wire even something as simple as a broken angle-of-attack or AOA-vane can make a plane do what this one did. If the computer thinks the plane is entering a stall because the inputs from the sensors are saying so and no provisions are in place to disable such protective measures at low level, it will simply take action by slamming the controls forward, even if the plane is just 10 feet off the deck. Lots of German and Dutch airmen on the Starfighter-G in the 1970s lost their lives in much the same way. The Starfighter was never designed to be used in low-level missions like we did in Western-Europe, so sometimes the plane thought it was in a stall when the AOA sensors went over the limit because of the vibrations in low-level, high-speed flight, and the stall protection took decisive action by flying the plane into the ground with no time for the guy at the controls to even reach for the ejection handle.

Another explanation could be that inexperienced companies and engineers working on their first, very own full-on FBW always seem to have a nice way of finding out how their shiny new plane behaves, namely by giving it their best shot and hoping for the best on the first flight. Even the people working on projects like the F-22 have to do some guesswork from time to time. The reason for this is because the aerodynamics of fighter jets, especially when the aircraft is near the ground, are so immensely complex and delicate even the smartest modeling and simulation computers in the world still can't figure it out 100%... the Swedes too had some spectacular crashes some years back when they were working on their first jet driven with indigenous FBW software, the Gripen:

[yt]IRk4vfq9AZ4[/yt] [yt]U0LBj_8xs_w[/yt]

In the last video you can actually see the control system still try its best to bring the aircraft back under control by giving full pitch down on the elevators and canards, even after the pilot has already bailed out and the plane enters an unrecoverable flat spin at near 90-degree angle of attack.
They fixed it in the end and it is currently selling like hotcakes in former east-bloc countries like Hungary and the Czech republic... let's hope some data can be gathered from the Nagoya crash so the senseis at Mitsubishi have got a shot at solving this mystery crash and fixing the software for the next crew and aircraft.

Just my €0.02

[kurohinge1]

. . .

Well, that's a relief.

Just as long as it had nothing to do with the sugar we stuck in the fuel tankas a bit of a prank.

[emperor]

http://youareapirot.ytmnd.com/

[kurohinge1]

[SIZE="4"]It's been a bad year for fighter-jet engineers -[/SIZE]

[SIZE="3"]Navigator falls out as fighter jet rolls[/SIZE]

A navigator has fallen to his death from a fighter jet after it performed a roll manoeuvre during a routine test flight in the United Kingdom.

Officials say his body was found in a disused airfield.

The aircraft involved in the incident landed safely at a nearby RAF base.

A spokesman for the Royal Air Force, Rem Merrick, told The Guardian newspaper that the aircraft was being flown by a civilian team from BAE Systems.

"It's with deepest sadness that the [Ministry of Defence] has learned that the BAE Systems navigator has died. The aircraft went into an inverted roll. The navigator exited the aircraft. We cannot speculate on the cause. It's being investigated by the board of inquiry."

The Times newspaper reported that after the accident, which took place at 4pm local time, the pilot made an emergency radio call which was picked up by an amateur radio enthusiast.

The paper reported an RAF source saying there "may have been something wrong with the ejector mechanism in the rear seat".

"The plane had just been serviced. When the jet went upside down, it was enough to set it off," the source was quoted as saying.

I wonder if "BAE Systems" is short for "Bloody Awful Engineering Systems"?

RIP, poor soul.

[Tsuru]

There have been at least a number of occasions where the "navigator", RIO or passenger ejected himself from the aircraft by accident after the pilot flying pulled off an unexpected, unexpectedly rough or unexpectedly unnecessary maneuver, leaving the one left behind flying a cabriolet.

Flying inverted at an altitude that will kill anyone who ejects at that point will probably also not have been in the good ideas department with a plane that had just come out of maintenance.

IMHO to say that "there was something wrong with the ejector mechanism" is a bit premature to say the least.

[Charles]

There have been at least a number of occasions where the "navigator", RIO or passenger ejected himself from the aircraft by accident after the pilot flying pulled off an unexpected, unexpectedly rough or unexpectedly unnecessary maneuver, leaving the one left behind flying a cabriolet.

I don't understand how you can accidentally pull the eject lever, even during extremely rough maneuvers. If the lever could easily be pulled accidentally during a high G maneuver, it seems to me it would be prone to accidental deployment during high Gs even without touching it.

[Tsuru]

If you have someone in there who has never been in a fighter jet before and you pull some interesting maneuvers with him there's no telling what he or she might do if they decide to shit their pants instead of love it. Some people might be inclined to take matters into their own hands instead of screaming their heads off.

Hint: the eject lever is usually bright yellow.

[Charles]

If you have someone in there who has never been in a fighter jet before and you pull some interesting maneuvers with him there's no telling what he or she might do if they decide to shit their pants instead of love it. Some people might be inclined to take matters into their own hands instead of screaming their heads off.

Hint: the eject lever is usually bright yellow.

Well sure, people do the stupidest things. But don't even newbies get a lecture before the flight that they should never touch the yellow lever, since it's wired up to explosives that can kill you even under the most successful ejection conditions?

That being said, I would love to see video of one of those rocket assisted zero-altitude ejection seats deployed at low altitude while inverted. That would be a Darwin Award winner for sure.

[Greji]

That being said, I would love to see video of one of those rocket assisted zero-altitude ejection seats deployed at low altitude while inverted. That would be a Darwin Award winner for sure.

You ought to see what it does inside a hanger!

[Tsuru]

Well sure, people do the stupidest things. But don't even newbies get a lecture before the flight that they should never touch the yellow lever, since it's wired up to explosives that can kill you even under the most successful ejection conditions?

Since it's a life-saving device I think it'd be odd for it to be denied to people because there are some downsides to it. Plenty of people have killed themselves by inflating their lifejackets in a submerged aircraft, for example.

But what I mean is that if someone isn't a pilot, not flying the aircraft and is sitting in the back he or she might not have the best ability to call whether or not they are in a life-threatening situation, and a few of these people might just prefer to be on the safe side and abandon ship altogether.
Famous last words.... "Oh f*ck"

[Charles]

Since it's a life-saving device I think it'd be odd for it to be denied to people because there are some downsides to it. Plenty of people have killed themselves by inflating their lifejackets in a submerged aircraft, for example.

But what I mean is that if someone isn't a pilot, not flying the aircraft and is sitting in the back he or she might not have the best ability to call whether or not they are in a life-threatening situation, and a few of these people might just prefer to be on the safe side and abandon ship altogether.
Famous last words.... "Oh f*ck"

Ha.. I read that an NTSB staffer saw dozens of black box transcripts with the last words of the pilot before a crash transcribed as "Expletive Deleted." So he listened to hundreds of tapes, and the last words were invariably "Oh Shit!"

But anyway, you know what I mean, the 2nd Seat shouldn't be totally denied use of the yellow lever, they just need to hear the magic words "Eject Eject Eject" before pulling it. That's the pilot's call.

[Greji]

But what I mean is that if someone isn't a pilot, not flying the aircraft and is sitting in the back he or she might not have the best ability to call whether or not they are in a life-threatening situation, and a few of these people might just prefer to be on the safe side and abandon ship altogether.
Famous last words.... "Oh f*ck"

After reviewing this thread, I was fortunate enough to find a video of Tsuru during one of his recent training flights, which might have found use for a few of those expletives used at various times....

Seriously, what great presence and situational control, huh?

[YT]/v/XRCbkBfdBrQ&hl=ja&fs=1[/YT]

[kusai Jijii]

that shit cant be for real.

[IkemenTommy]

model airplane fakeage?

LoL pretty cool though.

[kurohinge1]

. . . Seriously, what great presence and situational control, huh? . . .

WOW !!!!

If that's real, it's some great flying.

But I suspect that there's not many planes you could do that in.

[Tsuru]

That shit is so fake it's almost painful to watch.

[Greji]

That shit is so fake it's almost painful to watch.

But, I thought you were driving?:p

[Tsuru]

But, I thought you were driving?:p

I'm not allowed to fly single-seater stuntplanes yet... right now the old Cessna 152 with big-ass "L" plates is about as fancy as it gets

[kurohinge1]

. . . I suspect that there's not many planes you could do that in.

Although it looks like the F-15 is one that you can land with only one wing left. (Details & video here)

[IkemenTommy]

[quote="kurohinge1"]Although it looks like the F-15 is one that you can land with only one wing left. (Details & video here)

]
Incredible. I don't they faked that one.

[Bucky]