Dead Ball (JPN Baseball Thread)

[Greji]

You're trying to make Barry Bonds the sports equivalent of George W. Bush

Apparently, I was not successful. They just indicted Bondzo for perjury and obstructing justice.

Stand back Bird, AK is going to have an orgasm that'll rock the coast!

[AssKissinger]

Perjury convictions carry possible prison terms of up to five years, while obstruction of justice can bring a 10-year sentence.

Oh my God if Bonds goes to prison



OH fuck yeah!



Please God let him get assraped in prison!

And let it end up on youtube. Bonds bleeding out his asshole!



Daisuke worked out for Bosox

Bonds hahahahahaha

Why the fuck couldn't this have happened before he tampared with Hanks record???:theeye:

[Greji]

:Why the fuck couldn't this have happened before he tampared with Hanks record???:theeye:

Doesn't read like a case that is all locked up. Lot of gray area and ambiguous answers.

Here is the indictment...........

Might be a bit tough to get BB into the proctology course that AK is rooting for!

[Behan]

What do you think the likelihood is that he will be convicted?
If he is convicted, will that effetively lock him out of the hall of fame?
A reporter on Yahoo wrote that, ironically, Bonds would have likely been voted into the hall of fame without the steroids because he was such an all around good player.
He was stealing a lot of bases and had a good batting average, didn't he?
Maybe the extra weight is what did his knees in, too.

[Gilligan]

What do you think the likelihood is that he will be convicted?

On the one hand, perjury charges are extremely hard to prove. In this case, it's not enough that they show that Bonds took steroids even though he said he didn't (I think there's evidence collected from Balco that indicates he did), but they must show that he was AWARE that he was taking steroids when he said he wasn't. It's hard to prove what was in a guy's head. On the other hand, that's presumably why they threw in the obstruction of justice charge--kind of like what they did with Martha Stewart.

If he is convicted, will that effetively lock him out of the hall of fame?
A reporter on Yahoo wrote that, ironically, Bonds would have likely been voted into the hall of fame without the steroids because he was such an all around good player.
He was stealing a lot of bases and had a good batting average, didn't he?

This is an interesting question. Minus the indictment, it's hard to believe that, even with all the speculation, Bonds wouldn't be a first ballot HoFer. And the points that you bring up have a lot to do with it. But after he was indicted, I heard some reporters who vote say that they wouldn't vote for him if he was convicted. In the end, what it really comes down to, barring some official pronouncement by MLB, is how the writers who vote feel about it. Personally, as much as I can't stand the guy, he's a no-brainer for the HoF.

Maybe the extra weight is what did his knees in, too.

Actually, the extra muscle puts a lot of strain on the joints. Guys who seem to have put on a lot of muscle and then start coming down with a lot of nagging joint injuries may very well be taking steroids.

[Mulboyne]

AFP: Japanese baseball star Ichiro says he considered moving to Yankees

Ichiro Suzuki said he considered moving to the New York Yankees before deciding -- with his wife's encouragement -- to stick with the underperforming Seattle Mariners. "I had been wavering in my mind since early spring," the Japanese baseball star admitted in an interview with Kyodo News published Tuesday. Ichiro said his friends spoke to him about options including returning to Japan, joining compatriot slugger Hideki Matsui at the Yankees or playing with Japanese pitcher Daisuke Matsuzaka at the Boston Red Sox. The seven-time All-Star outfielder, who holds the Major League record for hits in a season, said he narrowed down his choice to the Yankees and Mariners.

The 34-year-old, who was eligible to become a free agent at the end of the last season, signed a five-year contract extension worth a reported 100 million dollars with the Seattle Mariners in July. "I once thought that maybe it was only the Yankees who could make up for what I would lose by leaving the Mariners and would provide satisfaction to me and others," he said. But he said the Japanese-owned Mariners "carried much heavier weight" for him in the end.

Ichiro said he did not remember the exact moment he made the decision but it was probably when he was having dinner with his wife, Yumiko, a 41-year-old former television anchorwoman. "I was wavering but let on an air like I wanted to play in Seattle. Yumiko sensed it and told me, 'You don't want to leave here, do you?' I felt like I got encouragement," he told Kyodo.

But Ichiro made no secret of his disappointments with the Mariners, who have not gone to the playoffs since his debut year with them in 2001. "Not only I but also Yumiko feel impatient at not being able to go to the playoffs for years," he said. Ichiro also said he has avoided major injuries despite more than 15 years as a professional player by "not making efforts." "What I mean by 'efforts' is enduring pain. In principle I don't do it unless my body wants it," he said.

[ttjereth]

If he is convicted, will that effetively lock him out of the hall of fame?

Pete Rose didn't get in for an arguably lesser crime.

[kamome]

Apparently, I was not successful. They just indicted Bondzo for perjury and obstructing justice.

Stand back Bird, AK is going to have an orgasm that'll rock the coast!

I would have been happier with an indictment for the crime itself rather than for perjury/obstruction. If they had enough to prosecute him for taking steroids, why would they instead indict him for lying about it? I think it may be because it is easier to prove that Bonds lied rather than to prove the underlying crime.

[Gilligan]

Pete Rose didn't get in for an arguably lesser crime.

Saying that betting on major league games (let alone games that your own team is playing in) as a manager is a lesser crime than taking steroids is VERY debatable. Taking steroids will never lead you to intentionally do anything that could jeopardize your team's chances of winning the game they're playing or some future game. Knowing that you have money riding on your team to win could make you keep your starter in too long which could have a negative impact on how he pitches in the next game. Also, piling up gambling loses to members of organized crime could lead you to purposely shave points or throw games in order to spare some body part or close family member from being injured.

What's more, while there's little suspicion about other major leaguers gambling on baseball during their playing / managing careers, Bonds wasn't close to the first guy to take some form of "performance-enhancer". Not only is it likely that there were plenty of players taking steroids / hGH before Bonds started to (or allegedly started to, if you prefer), but don't forget all those players back in the '60s and '70s who supposedly took amphetamines before games because they felt it helped them play better. Nobody's saying that Willie Mays and Willie Stargell shouldn't be in the HoF for allegedly using and ecouraging others to use "greenies".

Oh yeah, and let's not forget Dock Ellis pitching a no-hitter after taking LSD (although some people may not actually consider LSD to be a performance-ENHANCER).

[Gilligan]

I would have been happier with an indictment for the crime itself rather than for perjury/obstruction. If they had enough to prosecute him for taking steroids, why would they instead indict him for lying about it? I think it may be because it is easier to prove that Bonds lied rather than to prove the underlying crime.

Since one of the things that he lied about is knowingly taking steroids, I'm not so sure you're right. In proving that he lied about it, they would presumably first have to prove that he took them.

Of course that doesn't answer your question about why he wasn't charged with taking steroids. But they're being consistent; they didn't indict Marion Jones for taking steroids, either. Only for lying about it. The reason could, however, have something to do with the fact that they were granted immunity from prosecution on taking steroids in exchange for their testimony. Now I would think that if they lied in their testimony that would kind of negate the deal, but it could be that they just feel more comfortable going after the perjury and obstruction charges.

[Mulboyne]

Gboothe raised the possibility the other day that the perjury allegation might relate to what he claimed he knew about other people taking steroids. If he said he knew nothing but someone else claims he did then that might be the way they are going after him.

[Mulboyne]

The Japanese press is suggesting that Hideki Matsui's name has come up in trade discussions between The Twins and the Yankees. The Yankees are interested in Johan Santana and the Twins have suggested Matsui and one or two young pitchers in exchange. Matsui apparently has the right to veto any trade he does not like.

[Greji]

Gboothe raised the possibility the other day that the perjury allegation might relate to what he claimed he knew about other people taking steroids. If he said he knew nothing but someone else claims he did then that might be the way they are going after him.

Not saying he is an innocent lily, but when you read the last count of the indictment (granted it is a usual catch-all), it still brings thoughts that they are shooting at him because of who he is. The old story continues. People delight in knocking those who have obtained fame and/or notoriety, of their perch!

".....BARRY LAMAR BONDS,
unlawfully, willfully, and knowingly, did comptly endeavor to influence, obstruct, and impede the due administration of justice, by knowingly giving Grand jury testimony that was intentionally evasive, false, and misleading, that is:
(a) The false statements made by the defendant as charged in Counts 1-4 of this indictment; and
(b) Evasive and misleading testimony.

All in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Section 1503....."

But if he doesn't draw a course in bum alignment, AK will never forgive the great state of California.

[Gilligan]

Gboothe raised the possibility the other day that the perjury allegation might relate to what he claimed he knew about other people taking steroids. If he said he knew nothing but someone else claims he did then that might be the way they are going after him.

If you look at the indictment that Gboothe linked to yesterday, count one is regarding his answers to questions about whether or not he was aware that Greg Anderson had ever given him steroids; count two is regarding his answers to questions about whether or not Greg Anderson or his associates ever gave him any kind of an injection; count three is regarding his answers to questions about whether or not Greg Anderson ever gave him hGH; and count four is regarding his statements that Greg Anderson never gave him anything except advice, weightlifting tips, and vitamins prior to 2003 (when he gave him the "flaxseed oil"--mmmmm magic flaxseed oil ).

I have heard it reported that they have results from steroid tests taken by Balco prior to 2003 that indicate Bonds tested positive for steroids. Now whether or not that rumor is true, and whether or not they can prove in court that the test results actually refer to tests Bonds took, I don't know, but I'm sure we'll find out soon enough... or at least within the next couple of years.

What I find more intriguing is that Marion Jones didn't appear to even consider putting up a fight, while Bonds obviously intends to. I certainly don't assume the cases are the same, but is the difference solely with respect to evidence the government has, i.e. is Bonds' arrogance going to get him in more trouble than is necessary.

[Gilligan]

I just read a report that claims Fukudome and the Cubs have agreed to a 4-year contract worth $48 million. Not too shabby, even if it is the Cubs.

[maraboutslim]

Also read today that there are going to be over 50 players named in Mitchell's report to MLB. If the use of steroids turns out to be as prevalent as guys like Canseco have said it was, then Bonds should indeed be voted into the hall of fame since his competition was doing the same thing. Every time someone mentions how much larger Bonds got over his career, I say the same thing could be said about Clemens: sure enough, Clemens is rumored to be in Mitchell's report! Besides, MLB didn't even have a rule against taking steroids until after all this stuff came out.

BTW, perhaps they can't go after Bonds legally for taking steroids because it isn't illegal if prescribed by a doctor: maybe some of the Balco staff include an actual doctor? i drive by their office all the time - they're still in business but changed the name to SNAC.

[Greji]

BTW, perhaps they can't go after Bonds legally for taking steroids because it isn't illegal if prescribed by a doctor: maybe some of the Balco staff include an actual doctor? i drive by their office all the time - they're still in business but changed the name to SNAC.

I wonder if this hasn't turned into a type of the Scooter Libby syndrome. Get the biggest guy you can on the grill and he will screw up somewhere which will make him eligible for prosecution on perjury/obstruction charges.

It's going to be shitty, if it turns out he didn't take roids as he has been claiming, but perjured himself on some innocuous point. Another DA running for a senate or governor seat?

[halfnip]

I just read a report that claims Fukudome and the Cubs have agreed to a 4-year contract worth $48 million. Not too shabby, even if it is the Cubs.

Yes, and Iguchi signed with my Padres.

[kamome]

ESPN Link

Among the more well known names are Clemens, Bonds, Pettite, Miguel Tejada, Mo Vaughn, Ron Villone, Gary Sheffield, the Giambi brothers, Lenny Dykstra, Brian Roberts and Jack Cust. Christ, this is pretty devastating news.

Clemens is already denying he used 'roids despite being outed by his own dealer.

[Mulboyne]

[Behan]

Anyone with any thoughts on Roger Clemens?
I really want to think he didn't do it but...

[Greji]

Anyone with any thoughts on Roger Clemens?
I really want to think he didn't do it but...

I think it is going to stay up in the air for a while. The rocket's congressional testimony is going to mean a lot. Listening to the media spin on his phone call with his trainer, I would say he is sounding good, but it's hard to tell. As I said before from experience with people working off a bust, those two witnesses are on the rotating spit and have to name names for their plea bargining. Resultantly they name everybody they ever worked with and if even if the charges don't stick, they still think they are showing that they are convincing authorities they are cooperating by just naming the names.

You have to dismiss probably 70% of who these types usually name because it will either be total hearsay, or out right lies. They'll do, or say anything to keep out of the government's rectal enlargement program.

Mitchell's interviews were unsworn and have no legal status. The congressional hearings and any subsequent court proceedings will tell us a lot more!

[AssKissinger]

I saw him on 60 Minutes. He's afraid to take a polygraph.

[Greji]

I saw him on 60 Minutes. He's afraid to take a polygraph.

I heard him say before during an interview that he would. Must of changed his mind. Actually, anyone should be afraid of those, unless it is a last resort, because you completely at the mercy of the operator.

[Behan]

You have to dismiss probably 70% of who these types usually name because it will either be total hearsay, or out right lies. They'll do, or say anything to keep out of the government's rectal enlargement program.

Thanks Greji.

So it could come down to whose word do you believe?

If the Rocket didn't do it, then I would really feel sorry for him to have to deal with this when he's near retirement.

If he did do it, then I guess he has a big choice to make with testifying. Tell the truth and destroy his reputation or lie and risk getting in even more trouble.

Something doesn't seem right about persecuting athletes for using steroids when the league itself didn't have a ban on them. I am not advocating them and I have more respect for athletes who don't use them but the timing seems strange.

But why go after athletes who might have used them before the ban? Why didn't congress do anything earlier? Surely interested people in government must have known what was going on. It seems naieve to act shocked at finding that people making a lot of money from using their bodies would be tempted to use steroids.

Just some random (empty) thoughts...

[GuyJean]

If it walks like a roid, acts like a roid, throws broken-bat tantrums like a roid...

Clemens fits the roid-freak persona to a tee!.. Ok, Pettite did, and Clemens didn't? Yeah, fuckin' right!

Admitted Users
Ken Caminiti
Bobby Estalella
Jason Giambi
Jeremy Giambi
Armando Rios
Benito Santiago
Gary Sheffield
Jose Canseco
Tom House
Wally Joyner
Jim Leyritz
Paxton Crawford
Jason Grimsley
David Segui
John Rocker
Paul Byrd
Shane Monahan

MLB Positive Tests
Alex Sanchez
Jorge Piedra
Agustin Montero
Jamal Strong
Juan Rincon
Rafael Betancourt
Rafael Palmeiro
Ryan Franklin
Mike Morse
Carlos Almanzar
Felix Heredia
Matt Lawton
Yusaku Iriki
Guillermo Mota
Juan Salas
Dan Serafini

Implicated Players
Mark McGwire
Manny Alexander
Chuck Finley
Barry Bonds
Marvin Bernard
Randy Velarde
Wilson Alvarez
Bret Boone
Ozzie Canseco
Juan Gonzalez
Dave Martinez
Ivan Rodriguez
Tony Saunders
Miguel Tejada
Lenny Dykstra
Dave Hollins
Roger Clemens
Andy Pettitte
Brian Roberts
Jay Gibbons
Gary Matthews Jr.
Jerry Hairston Jr.
David Bell
Darren Holmes
Rick Ankiel
Troy Glaus
Scott Schoeneweis
Matt Williams
Jose Guillen
Ismael Valdez

Mitchell Report
Ricky Bones
Alex Cabrera
Larry Bigbie
Jack Cust
Tim Laker
Todd Hundley
Hal Morris
Mark Carreon
Matt Franco
Rondell White
Chuck Knoblauch
Greg Zaunn
David Justice
F.P. Santangelo
Glenallen Hill
Mo Vaughn
Denny Neagle
Ron Villone
Chris Donnels
Todd Williams
Phil Hiatt
Todd Pratt
Kevin Young
Mike Lansing
Cody McKay
Kent Merker
Adam Piatt
Jason Christiansen
Mike Stanton
Stephen Randolph
Paul Lo Duca
Adam Riggs
Bart Miadich
Fernando Vina
Kevin Brown
Eric Gagne
Mike Bell
Matt Herges
Gary Bennett Jr.
Jim Parque
Brendan Donnelly
Chad Allen
Jeff Williams
Howie Clark
Nook Logan
- http://thesteroidera.blogspot.com/2006/08/list-of-steroid-hgh-users-in-baseball.html

As you can see, the MLB would never tolerate such drugs..



GJ

[Greji]

If it walks like a roid, acts like a roid, throws broken-bat tantrums like a roid...

Clemens fits the roid-freak persona to a tee!.. Ok, Pettite did, and Clemens didn't? Yeah, fuckin' right!
GJ

Pettite admitted taking a growth hormone twice during 2002 when he was out for an injury. I'll stand corrected, but I don't believe it was against major league rules until it was banned in 2005. Plus, hGH is not a steroid. It is what its name implies, a synthetic hormone and is normally prescribed for injuries. There appears to be serious questions whether it really is a performance enhancing drug, but the fact remains that it is against Major league rules. It is not among the drugs tested for in players. Apparently, that is because it can only be detected through blood testing, and the players association, will not consent to that at the present.

But, I can see why the Mitchell Report gives Guy Jean a stiffy. Mitchell was a Democratic appointee of Jimmy Carter and later served as the Majority leader in the Senate, having been elected to the Senate to replace Ed Muskie.

His report has been taking some flack based on the fact it had limited sources of information, mainly those three who were under investigation and questionable in their veracity at best. Also, he is a current board director of the Boston Red Sox and no Red Sox players were named, while the Yankees took in the shorts. A typical Democrat operation.

[GuyJean]

.. but the fact remains that it is against Major league rules...

Say no more..

.. Mitchell was a Democratic appointee of Jimmy Carter and later served as the Majority leader in the Senate..

Aaahh.. Again, say no more; by assuming my true colors, you've exposed your own.

GJ

[Greji]

[quote="GuyJean"]Say no more..
Aaahh.. Again, say no more]

I have never assumed your "true colors", which is next to impossible, as they change every day. How pray tell is one to know what they are? Also, the only place I would expose my self in your colors, is standing at the top of the up escalator in the Mori Building.

What I was referring to about Pettite is that it does not appear that he is in violation of the rules as his two day use for his injury occcured about three years before the rule came into being.

As for your boy Mitchell, just look at the line-up and you can tell! Mitchell, "Puff" Tom Daschle and now Pelosi.

[TennoChinko]

How many of the players listed in the Mitchell Report play in Japan?

I've spotted a few:

Chad Allen (Orix Buffaloes)
Alex Cabrera (Seibu Lions)
Chris Donnels (Orix)
Matt Franco (Lotte Marines)
Adam Riggs (Yakult Swallows)
Jeff Williams (Hanshin Tigers) (an Aussie, too)

Anyways, I think the thing to remember about the Mitchell Report and the related testimony of Brian McNamee and Kirk Radomski is that it's just the tip of the f***ing iceberg. This is why comments like "oh well, that was then, let's put this behind us and look forward" by Selig and others in MLB management are clearly self-serving and hypocritical statements. If they did not clue in to the explosive growth of both players and the business of the game while under their watch, they were either f*cking blind or lying bastards who turned a blind-eye. I reckon it's the latter.