Dead Ball (JPN Baseball Thread)

[kamome]

You know, if you listen to that tape recorded call, Clemens did not once ask McNamee "Why did you lie?" If McNamee was truly full of shit, don't you think he would have called McNamee a liar to his face (over the phone)? Instead, the comment was more like "Why are you doing this?" and McNamee's response was "What do you want from me, Roger?" That sounds like an accusation about breaking an oath of loyalty rather than an accusation of lying. I don't think Clemens helped his cause at all by airing that phone conversation.

[AssKissinger]

If Clemens turns out to be guilty I think Mark Cuban and Ted Turner and Bill Gates should get together and try to start a REAL baseball league, something international that includes Latin America and Asia.

Fuck MLB! It's all BULLSHIT: BULLSHIT records, BULLSHIT playoffs and BULLSHIT way too fucking long season.

[AssKissinger]

And BULLSHIT 'World' Series.

[GuyJean]

.. start a REAL baseball league, something international that includes Latin America..

Really?

The Mitchell Report's Forgotten Names
http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/mariners/2007/12/mitchell_report_looms.html

.. Latin America and the involvement of its players with steroids is a subject I've followed with great interest for the past three years. I travelled to the Dominican Republic in 2005 for the Toronto Star and did an extensive, two-part investigative report about how steroids and other performance enhancing drugs (like farm supplements meant for large animals) were easily obtained and frequently used by teenagers there.

An excellent photo essay on those stories, taken by photographer Peter Power, who accompanied me throughout the trip, can be viewed by clicking on this link. The text link on the Zuma Press page also contains Part II of my series. That story was about the so-called "buscones" -- unlicensed street agents who gather up all the young ballplayers they can find on the streets of the Dominican and "groom" them to become professionals as young as age 16. How are these prospects groomed? Well, for one thing, major league teams scouring for talent at that age will want to see young players who physically show them something.

How does a great young player gain physical maturity by age 16 or 17? Well, some are truly gifted, freaks of nature. Others get help from a needle. Even the truly gifted ones get a needle boost at times. Injections are nothing to young Dominican boys, who start taking vitamin B-12 shots given by their teams and "buscones" at ages as young as 11 or 12. Mix some performance enhancing drugs into those shots and well, the vitamin "boost" becomes bigger...

:confused:

GJ

[Greji]

You know, if you listen to that tape recorded call, Clemens did not once ask McNamee "Why did you lie?" If McNamee was truly full of shit, don't you think he would have called McNamee a liar to his face (over the phone)? Instead, the comment was more like "Why are you doing this?" and McNamee's response was "What do you want from me, Roger?" That sounds like an accusation about breaking an oath of loyalty rather than an accusation of lying. I don't think Clemens helped his cause at all by airing that phone conversation.

Bird, what you say is quite correct from the prosecutions view, but from the defense side, if McNamee was on firm ground and knew his allegations to be without question, I would think he would have been a little more forceful. A question of "Why are you doing this?", would have quite simply been answered by McNamee, with words to the effect of "because it's true", or because "we did it". He didn't sound very sure of himself. He certainly didn't sound like the guy who had all the evidence, talking to the guy he had the evidence against.

[Captain Japan]

Bird, what you say is quite correct from the prosecutions view, but from the defense side, if McNamee was on firm ground and knew his allegations to be without question, I would think he would have been a little more forceful. A question of "Why are you doing this?", would have quite simply been answered by McNamee, with words to the effect of "because it's true", or because "we did it". He didn't sound very sure of himself. He certainly didn't sound like the guy who had all the evidence, talking to the guy he had the evidence against.

But what motive would McNamee have to tell the truth about Pettite yet lie about Clemens? I think he didn't say anything like "because it is true" simply because he still - for whatever reason - looks up to Clemens and views him as a friend.

The thing I don't understand is: why is it only Pettite, Clemens, and Knoblauch testifying (or being requested to) before Congress? I think Loduca and Gagne probably have quite a bit they could say. Same with Tejada. I realize Clemens is the biggest name but that shouldn't justify Congress in only sticking it to him. As well, they keep chasing up McNamee for info. But at this point they need another witness to corroborate his story. It just seems like the process in this all very, very vague with stuff just emerging seemingly out of nowhere.

Also McNamee only states that stopped ramming needles into Clemens' butt in 2001. So Clemens has been clean since then? I doubt it. There are more people out there who know what's going on. At this point, Clemens seems to be banking on no other witnesses being found. If that doesn't turn out to be the case, he is completely screwed.

[Greji]

But what motive would McNamee have to tell the truth about Pettite yet lie about Clemens?

I haven't (and don't intend to) read that much of the detail of the Mitchell report as it is being blown about and interpreted all around the sports media. But I am to understand his account of what occurred with Pettite is not as Pettite is stating it. He claims the two days that he took hGH during his injury was the only time he ever used what is now a banded substance and McNamee says different.

The thing I don't understand is: why is it only Pettite, Clemens, and Knoblauch testifying (or being requested to) before Congress?

I could only speculate that it might be because according to the report they are not guilty of violating baseball rules on those substances at the time they were alleged to have used them.

I think Loduca and Gagne probably have quite a bit they could say. Same with Tejada. I realize Clemens is the biggest name but that shouldn't justify Congress in only sticking it to him. As well, they keep chasing up McNamee for info. But at this point they need another witness to corroborate his story. It just seems like the process in this all very, very vague with stuff just emerging seemingly out of nowhere.

I probably should have said at the onset that not only do I have NFI why congress should be having hearings on baseball, when they are bitching about all the problems with country and have accomplished a damn thing since they were elected. I think they want to use it for a big political event, with mass media coverage and really have no other interest in resolving anything. This could very well account for the way they are approaching it.

Also McNamee only states that stopped ramming needles into Clemens' butt in 2001. So Clemens has been clean since then? I doubt it. There are more people out there who know what's going on. At this point, Clemens seems to be banking on no other witnesses being found. If that doesn't turn out to be the case, he is completely screwed.

As I said before a snitch is a snitch is a snitch and if he is being given immunity he will name everybody he knows and anyone who he has ever shook hands with. He's facing the pen and people in that position feel that they must name everybody they can and if called on a lie, they just claim that they dealt with so many they got confused. McNamee and the other clown are classic examples. Without confirming information or corroborating witnesses, I doubt if they can make a case on any of their information.

Last reference again, to the mighty Mitchell Report. I said before, this is a guy who is on the Board of Directors of the Red Sox and low and behold, no Red Sox players is implicated, even peripherally. Yet, the whole NY Yankee 40 player rooster is set forth almost verbatim. It stinks, just from that alone.

[GuyJean]

.. I said before, this is a guy who is on the Board of Directors of the Red Sox and low and behold, no Red Sox players is implicated, even peripherally...

..

Red Sox ties in Mitchell Report
Former, current MLB players implicated in 21-month probe
http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071213&content_id=2324810&fext=.jsp&c_id=bos&vkey=news_bos

.. Mitchell then printed an e-mail exchange that was sent from Zack Scott of the Red Sox baseball operations staff to Ben Cherington, the club's vice president of player personnel.

"He was a juice guy, but his velocity hasn't changed a lot over the years," Scott wrote. "If he was a juice guy, he could be a breakdown candidate."

Kyle Evans of Boston's baseball operations staff then chimed in with an e-mail that said, "I haven't heard many good things about him, w[ith] significant steroid rumors."

Donnelly is a free agent after being non-tendered by the Sox on Wednesday.

Other players with Red Sox ties who were named in the Mitchell Report are: Jose Canseco (1995-96), Paxton Crawford (2000-01), Jeremy Giambi (2003), Steve Woodard ('03), Josias Manzanillo ('91), Chris Donnels ('95), Mike Lansing (2000-01), Kent Mercker ('99) and Mike Stanton ('96, '05)...

GJ

[Captain Japan]

..

Red Sox ties in Mitchell Report
Former, current MLB players implicated in 21-month probe
http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071213&content_id=2324810&fext=.jsp&c_id=bos&vkey=news_bos
GJ

The "juice guy" quote is about Eric Gagne.

[GuyJean]

The "juice guy" quote is about Eric Gagne.

Skimming over the article, I couldn't tell if it was Donelly or Gagne..

GJ

[Captain Japan]

Nope. I was wrong. That one was about Donnelly. This article says includes this about Gagne:

In a Nov. 1, 2006, e-mail to Red Sox scout Mark Delpiano, general manager Theo Epstein asked, "Have you done any digging on Gagne? I know the Dodgers think he was a steroid guy. Maybe so. What do you hear on his medical?"

[kamome]

In other words, Greji, the Mitchell Report indeed implicates Red Sox players and shouldn't be discounted just because of Mitchell's ties to that team. To my knowledge, every major league team has had at least one of their current or former players implicated in the report.

[Greji]

In other words, Greji, the Mitchell Report indeed implicates Red Sox players and shouldn't be discounted just because of Mitchell's ties to that team. To my knowledge, every major league team has had at least one of their current or former players implicated in the report.

I give you that he was with them one season (last year).

But, I would recommend you get a lawyer, give him the Mitchell Report and tell him to take the prosecutable parties to trial. I guess that he would probably only be able to get convictions on the "allegators"!

[GuyJean]

The Steroids Social Network
http://www.slate.com/id/2180392/



And to make this Japan related, a discussion on the Japan Baseball Forum:

Japan Steroids Gaijins
http://www.japanesebaseball.com/forum/thread.jsp?forum=17&thread=47319

With the recent revelations over Franco, Cabrera, et al, that now makes about 15 current or former Japan leaguers who have either failed drug tests or who have been implicated in use of performance enhancing drugs. The most famous of those is Rafael Bettencourt of Cleveland.

While Yokohama not only just picked up Bigbie, but also Yusaku Iriki, who flunked a screening while he was in the Mets' system. - [ Author: Guest: Gary Garland | Posted: Dec 15, 2007 2:07 AM ]

GJ

[AssKissinger]

I'm surprised no one is gonna chime in in agreement with me that it's a good time for a some new organization to challenge MLB's supremacy. There's no reason why MLB should be synonymous with baseball. They've failed us. They suck.

[Greji]

They've failed us. They suck.

That's interesting. Given there they have the on-going roids set, but why else would you say that?

[AssKissinger]

I just can't forgive them for what they did to Hank. It's so fucking meaningless now.

Faggot A-Roid's contract is bigger news than the World Series.

No more heroes. The game sucks. Players are assholes. It's worse than the NBA.

It's a great game and that's why we need to scrap this shit and start over.

[Mulboyne]

Whoops.

Canadian Press: Two Japanese teams lay claim to former major leaguer Jeremy Powell

Two Japanese baseball teams claimed they have reached an agreement with former major-league pitcher Jeremy Powell on a contract for the 2008 season. The Orix Buffaloes and the Softbank Hawks of the Pacific League both say the 31-year-old has signed a contract to play for them in the upcoming season. "We have his (Powell's) signature and the Pacific League recognizes it," Katsuhiro Nakamura, a senior Orix official, said Friday. Powell, who played for the Montreal Expos from 1998-2000, played for the Yomiuri Giants last season but was released after a knee injury limited him to seven starts with a 0-2 record in 2007. Earlier Softbank stressed the legitimacy of its contract, claiming that the completion of the deal between Orix and Powell had yet to be announced officially by the league, leaving it ineffective. Powell led the Pacific League with 17 wins for the Kintetsu Buffaloes in 2002 and has recorded double-digit wins in four of his seven seasons in Japan. The Nikkansports newspaper reported Friday that Powell's agent said the document Powell signed with the Buffaloes was not an official contract, but a document for use in his application for a work visa to enter Japan.

[Mulboyne]

Yomiuri: Powell - I didn't agree to 2 deals

A day after Jeremy Powell received a de facto three-month suspension for signing contracts with two clubs, he apologized for being at the center of an ugly controversy but insisted there was no double dealing on his part. "I will say that I never signed two contracts," Powell said at a Tuesday press conference in Tokyo. Powell and his agent, Craig Landis, have insisted they believed the contract the Buffaloes claim binds him to Orix was nothing but part of the paperwork necessary to begin the process of getting his visa. "After confirming that this was being used solely for paperwork purposes, I signed it and faxed it back," said Powell, who said Orix then wanted to change the deal they had agreed to earlier in January. The pitcher, a seven-year veteran of Japanese ball, said he felt the Buffaloes were being insincere and instructed his agent to break off the deal with Orix.

The key point of contention is whether the Buffaloes were informed that Powell wanted to break off their negotiations. Orix official Takashi Miyata asserted Tuesday his team never received word that Powell wanted to call off their deal. "We never heard anything from them [that they wanted out]," Miyata said. "The first thing we heard was when SoftBank announced it had a contract with him." When the Hawks announced their deal on Jan. 29, Orix screamed foul and Pacific League president Tadao Koike quickly ruled both teams had contracts. The president instructed the clubs to work out a compromise, but neither would budge. On Monday, Koike suggested Powell's rights go to the Hawks and that he not be allowed to play until June 23 as punishment.

On Tuesday, Orix flatly rejected that option. "We do not accept the president's instruction," said Orix director of baseball Katsuhiro Nakamura. "Orix was completing the signing according to the rules. So to have this one-sided judgement all of a sudden is unacceptable." Miyata flatly rejected Powell's assertion that Orix was trying to change the terms of the agreement after the fact, saying, "Nothing like that happened." Koike said his solution was intended to prevent an even messier conflict. "If this thing goes to court, it's going to take a long time. Nobody knows how long," he said. "I had to think of my responsibility as president. "I expected some opposition, but I also knew I couldn't just ignore it."

The Hawks said they have investigated the matter and told Koike they believe Powell is blameless and would seek to have him in a Hawks uniform much earlier than June 23. "We have heard that [Powell said he broke off negotiations with Orix]," Koike said. "But Orix continues to insist, 'We never heard anything of the sort.' Both teams are determined to go their own way."

[Mulboyne]

[AssKissinger]

Hardin was referring to the release Thursday by McNamee's lawyers of two photographs showing needles, vials and bloody gauze McNamee says contain Clemens' blood and DNA mixed with steroids and human growth hormone. McNamee, who turned the evidence over to federal investigators last month, said he had saved the material since 2001.

:mad2: Could he have got his blood from another source and mixed it with that shit?

[Greji]

:mad2: Could he have got his blood from another source and mixed it with that shit?

Good point and that's would be a major question that most kindegarden students would understand AK, but wait, we're dealing with congressmen here and it might be beyond their realm of comprehension!

I get a immediate jerk out of why would the guy save that kind of shit for seven years?

Gotta be a yaochou!

[AssKissinger]

I bet that McNamee fag got his own jizz mixed up in there as well. I mean, you know he beat off over it every Goddamn day.

[AssKissinger]

Why do they meet in front of congress anyway?

[GuyJean]

Why do they meet in front of congress anyway?

Roidger wanted to defend himself.. And have McNamee give his testimony under a sworn oath..

GJ

[Greji]

Roidger wanted to defend himself.. And have McNamee give his testimony under a sworn oath..

GJ

I know it's in the media, but did any of you guys notice that the Dems attacked Clemmons and the Repubs defended him and jumped on McNamee?

I don't think there's any delegates involved in this, is there?

[GuyJean]

[kamome]

Roidger wanted to defend himself.. And have McNamee give his testimony under a sworn oath..

GJ

I thought these hearings were held before Congress because of baseball's anti-trust exemption granted by Congress in the 1920's. But I've been looking around the 'net and can't find anything supporting the argument that the antitrust exemption actually provides Congress with the authority to hold hearings over drug use by baseball players. It's kind of a witch hunt.

[Gilligan]

The whole debacle of calling Clemens to testify in front of Congress is just sad, best summed up, in my opinion, by this article from the Boston Herald.

On another note, Waxman reportedly claimed that he was going to cancel the whole thing but Clemens and his representatives insisted that Clemens be given an opportunity to defend himself. Not sure that he was very successful.

Also, while I won't necessarily dispute the overall Dem / Rep split that is being reported, I would like to say that it is, as usual, a simplistic assessment of what went on. And as an example I will point to the Democrat Eleanor Holmes Norton telling Roider Clemens that he was going to heaven for being such a nice guy.

[Gilligan]

According to this report on ESPN.com, the government has told the court they have evidence that Bonds tested positive for steroids in November 2001. It also says the prosecutors have evidence that Bonds received steroids from Anderson prior to testing positive. As to what this evidence actually is, we'll have to wait until the trial.

Considering the lengths to which the government is going to to nail Bonds, you kind of have to believe that they'll be going hard after Clemens, too--for everything from perjury (you may not believe McNamee but it's hard not to believe Pettite and his wife) to obstruction of justice (the whole nanny thing). If the justice department chooses to pass on Clemens, look for Bonds to add racism to his public defense.