Buying/Building a house/Imported Houses

[ttjereth]

hehe

i used to live next to a graveyard!

...that's why my head looks like it was chewed on by zombies

...cause it was

I'd be hard pressed deciding between "having head chewed on by zombies" and "spending an extra unnecessary 10000000 yen"...

[ttjereth]

i feel a dumb question coming on so i'll ask - how did you learn? were there certain books you bought that you just followed or was this some latent natural talent / previous experience that you have?

I redid the interior of the apartment we live in now when we (rather I, since I was here a full month and a half before the wife) moved in.

The total of my experience doing DIY stuff was with my dad, uncles and grandfather when I was younger and Jr. High Shop class (although I did work a summer doing demolition work if that counts ), but a lot of it is pretty straight forward.

You can find instructions for pretty much any given task with a google search in English, and then there's always the old standby of trial and error + lots of swearing

The stuff I have done is by no means going to win any building awards, but it makes things more livable and that's good enough for me.

Here's what our sink area right outside the shower used to look like:


Then after putting in a new sink/cabinets, painting, umpteen frigging hours puttying.


Then after the wife got ahold of it... (It's even worse now, with all this metal mesh and baskets full of all sorts of woman potions dangling from the walls). I think the only things in this picture that belong to me are a toothbrush, a bottle of listerine, a stick of deaoderant and an electric razor.


Laying down vinyl sheet flooring in the kitchen.


My biggest problem was (as mentioned above) when my wife moved in part way through the renovation work and brought belongings with her. As evidenced below.

[Grumblebum]

i feel a dumb question coming on so i'll ask - how did you learn? were there certain books you bought that you just followed or was this some latent natural talent / previous experience that you have?

The total of my experience doing DIY stuff was with my dad, uncles and grandfather when I was younger and Jr. High Shop class (although I did work a summer doing demolition work if that counts ), but a lot of it is pretty straight forward.

You can find instructions for pretty much any given task with a google search in English, and then there's always the old standby of trial and error + lots of swearing

My 'experience' is pretty much the same as ttjereth. Same thing regarding lots of Googling, and swearing. Especially the swearing.
Not to mention the old "measure twice, cut once" - although sometimes twice isn't enough...

Anyway, I've found that most stuff is pretty logical as long as you're not trying to do anything too fancy. There are heaps of sites out there with woodworking instructions, plans, etc. For example I wanted to find out the easiest way to cut sheets of drywall to do the ceiling in my attic so I just googled "cutting drywall", and found everything I needed.

Going through some of the messages in that mailing list, seems that the difficulties I have are common to other FGs too - figuring out the Japanese equivalent for DIY stuff you find out elsewhere, and then actually finding similar materials/parts/tools here.

Its also a lot simpler once you've got the basic selection of tools and supplies handy. My latest purchase was a sliding compound mitre saw, which made doing the attic work (ie, cutting up lots of 2x4 and floorboards) sooo much easier. Definitely worth the 35000yen, even though I have to lug the thing outside for every cutting session.

[james]

[Greji]

i feel a dumb question coming on so i'll ask - how did you learn? were there certain books you bought that you just followed or was this some latent natural talent / previous experience that you have?

I've done a lot of work around the homestead myself, most of which was forced on me by old what's-her-name in payment for my late night search and destroy missions in Roppongi and general goat herding practices.

Most Doito stores and large Caines Marts have literally thousands of little free pamphlets on do it yourself projects that are free for the asking and have pretty detailed pictures even if you can't read Japanese well. I replaced all the tatami rooms in both of my places with hardwood floors, using one of these pamphets and the pre-hab flooring and insulation. This was not because I dislike the tatami, but I live up in the mountains and you couldn't heat the rooms unless you had a blast furnace for a space heater. The result was quite well and actually reduced heating costs for both of the houses.

I have built outside redwood decks for the places the same way.

As far as books, I have a number that I ordered off the net. I found them by googling specific projects, or just do-it-yourself type entries and then finding the book I wanted, I shopped around for prices on thee titles, new or used on the likes of Amazon et al.

[Blah Pete]

Some of the DIY stores also lend power tools you can take home for 24 or 48 hours. The Doit store by my house also has a kei truck you can use to get your supplies home.
They also have an onsite workshop for customers which is handy for cutting down large/long suplies (2x4's) to fit them in your car, etc.

[kusai Jijii]

My dish washer was made in Hokkaido and she is pretty slow, but very cheap!

My dishwasher was made in Osaka and is fucking loud, despite the fact that she doesnt even work anymore!:mad2:

[Greji]

Some of the DIY stores also lend power tools you can take home for 24 or 48 hours. The Doit store by my house also has a kei truck you can use to get your supplies home.
They also have an onsite workshop for customers which is handy for cutting down large/long suplies (2x4's) to fit them in your car, etc.

Good points Pete, I had forgotten that. The Kei truck is free up to a certain time limit and then a very minimal charge if you exceed that time. Most also have staff in the workshops that will do large or difficult cuts of your wood/pipes, etc., again for a very minimal charge. A lot of times if you are a regular customer, they'll do it free (sometimes the FG factor works here to).

[Grumblebum]

My dishwasher was made in Osaka and is fucking loud

Better than not fucking at all, I guess..

[Grumblebum]

Good points Pete, I had forgotten that. The Kei truck is free up to a certain time limit and then a very minimal charge if you exceed that time. Most also have staff in the workshops that will do large or difficult cuts of your wood/pipes, etc., again for a very minimal charge. A lot of times if you are a regular customer, they'll do it free (sometimes the FG factor works here to).

Yeah, there's a Unidy home centre close to us which does all of that - they have a massive range of stuff, and the staff in the building supply areas really know their stuff too. They do the K-truck up to an hour free(perfect for us since we're only 10 minutes away), and also have a little workshop with tools like bandsaws, circular saws, routers etc which is free to use as long as you've paid for the materials. I've seen people do their entire DIY job in there..

They also do big cuts for 10yen/cut (or free if you have a members credit card) with those big vertical saw tables. And with the paid cuts they'll help you work out how to do what you want in as few cuts as possible.

[james]

Most Doito stores and large Caines Marts have literally thousands of little free pamphlets on do it yourself projects that are free for the asking

I have built outside redwood decks for the places the same way.

As far as books, I have a number that I ordered off the net. I found them by googling specific projects, or just do-it-yourself type entries and then finding the book I wanted, I shopped around for prices on thee titles, new or used on the likes of Amazon et al.

would definitely like to see some of those pamphlets. never seen those at my local home centre.

and yeah, i guess the google - y'know, when sites aren't being banned by professional googlers - and amazon combo can be quite handy. perhaps the best approach would be to start w/ small projects and just gain experience and knowledge.

[Greji]

would definitely like to see some of those pamphlets. never seen those at my local home centre.

and yeah, i guess the google - y'know, when sites aren't being banned by professional googlers - and amazon combo can be quite handy. perhaps the best approach would be to start w/ small projects and just gain experience and knowledge.

A lot of the times they have the pamphlets right at the entrance, or if not there, in the work/hobby shop area. If you don't find them, just ask at the service counter.

[ttjereth]

[Captain Japan]

[amdg]

[quote="ttjereth"]

Then after putting in a new sink/cabinets, painting, umpteen frigging hours puttying.


Nice Job ttjereth!

[Catoneinutica]

Yeah, there's a Unidy home centre close to us which does all of that - they have a massive range of stuff, and the staff in the building supply areas really know their stuff too. They do the K-truck up to an hour free(perfect for us since we're only 10 minutes away), and also have a little workshop with tools like bandsaws, circular saws, routers etc which is free to use as long as you've paid for the materials. I've seen people do their entire DIY job in there..

They also do big cuts for 10yen/cut (or free if you have a members credit card) with those big vertical saw tables. And with the paid cuts they'll help you work out how to do what you want in as few cuts as possible.

Unidy's the King of DIY centers in Japan, for my money. Great selection of really obscure stuff, like weird angled brackets for securing marble-topped 18th-century console tables to 2x6 studs. Bit pricey, though, and their gardening stuff is pretty hit-or-miss.

[ttjereth]

[ttjereth]

Just as a quick update and to add to the collective pool of information available on the subject, we went looking at model homes today and also peeked around some other possible locations for a house (including along the Tsukuba express, but land prices are still a minimum of about 2 times where we are currently planning on buying, on top of which land close to any of the stations is already ridiculously scarce and Ibaraki has some ridiculously strict building regulations).

We looked at what was our front runner (based completely on aesthetics ) which was the "Noble" model from Tokyo Homes Mill Creek line. However, whereas I love Tudor style homes, upon seeing the actual "Noble" model house, the exterior really struck us as more of a bad fake Tudor style home, and the interior seemed more like a Japanese restuarant concept of the interior of a western home than the actual interior of a western home. I kept expecting to be given a menu.

On top of all this, it is ridiculously expensive (especially given the outrageous size of house we are looking to build) based mostly on (ironically) the exterior design. That particular model was running at about 930,000 yen per tsubo of house, so even for the amount of total tsubo for the model house (80 something, which again is much less than what we are looking to build, the land we are thinking of buying is 136 tsubo with a kenpei ritsu of 60% and a yoseki ritsu of 200%, and on top of that if we decide to build a basement that doesn't factor into either so in theory we are looking at a possibility to build a house of well over total 160-200 tsubo ) the overall price was looking to be 80,000,000 yen, which is just a tad ridiculous

They have less expensive lines which are mainly just aluminum-siding country homes like you can see pretty much anywhere outside of major urban areas in the U.S., but even those run about 40,000,000 for their standard packages, so we have begun looking at some purely Japanese products which are more affordable but can still be modified to American standards in the areas we care about (stair/hallway width, closest space, etc.).

Will post if I find any remarkable deals, but so far I'm not holding my breath...

[james]

thanks for the post, it's always good to have others' experience to look at. 80,000,000 yen is definitely a bit on the pricy side, at least for me!

the import house by maple homes my wife and i were looking to build was really quite modest, especially compared to what you seem to want 43 tsubo plus loft space of another 16 or so which in theory i was going to complete myself post-inspection. the house itself would be nice, quite comfortable, *junk free* and the price point (30,000,000) was within our means without stretching things too much.

unfortunately, we've put things on hold indefinitely. i can't justify spending 30,000,000 on something that'll be considered worthless in 10 years in an area of rapid population decline. population has dropped from a little over 9,000 people to around 7,800 in the 10 years i've been here - i doubt i'd even be able to rent it out if we wanted to leave. we're considering our options.

[Bucky]

These folks may not be of interest to you but we did do some Japanese DTP work for them a year or two ago.

http://www.armstrong-homes.com/

If you click on the "international" link on the main page you will go to their Japanese site. A friend of mine started their business in Japan. The parent company is fairly well known in the Seattle area.

Another company that is exporting homes to Japan from the U.S. is:

http://www.pmhi.com/

Many of the companies that were selling building products in to Japan dropped out of the market because of the price of lumber. In the 80's US companies were doing pretty well, then Canadians started undercutting on price, then Scandinavian countries started undercutting the Canadians, then the Russians started undercutting even them. . .

[Catoneinutica]

We were pretty satisfied with Fronville Home Chiba for our place in Karuizawa. They seem to be more-or-less fluent in Western construction techniques. Pricey though, because they have model homes and slick sales staff to support.

One cost-cutting idea would be to see if you could entice the architects and contractors used by the "imported" house companies to work for you directly, thus bypassing these costs.

[Nobody]

Hi there

I was surfing the Internet looking for info on building a house in Japan and just discovered this forum by chance. It is a gold mine.
Here is my two cents. I hope it helps.

My target is the 40,000yen/tsubo price range, so building a house in concrete is not an option, and big names such as Mitsui, Misawa, Panahome are also excluded.

I have used the following ranking of builders in my research.
http://www.nandemo-best10.com/index.html
(just select 住宅メーカー in the 住まい drop down menu on the left.）
I don't know if this ranking can really be trusted, but it's a start.

"Technostructure" is ranked No. 1. Their price is reasonable, and their houses look well built
You can see the step-by-step construction process of a few houses here.
http://www.td-h.com/sintiku/
I'm not a pro, but it just looks right. Now a few pros and cons.
Pros: Cost. Construction materials/techniques adapted to the Japanese climate (arguably). Parts/maintenance easily available.
Cons: Japanese wooden construction reputed inferior to 2x4 construction (as to earthquake resistance, longevity, aluminium windows inferior to wood/vinyl windows found in imported 2x4 homes, etc.)

"Alnet Homes"
Pros : same as above, plus 60-year guarantee (!) and third-party inspections (both for a fee)
(see http://www.acehome.co.jp/sumai/jcoe1s00000007m2.html)
Cons : same as above

There are other well-ranked builders in this price range but I just don't like the designs.

On the other hand imported Canadian homes look more robust. They are also more expensive.
I am probably going to inquire with Selco and Florence Gardens to see if they have something in my price range or slightly above it.
I spent time surfing forums in Japanese for info about these imported houses, and something I saw written a couple of times is that they are "very warm in winter, but too hot in summer".Some owners also write that the insulation material tends to retain moisture. In other word, imported houses may not be well suited to the Japanese climate (arguably). Does anybody have experience with this issue ?

(Sorry if I posted this in the wrong place)

[ttjereth]

These folks may not be of interest to you but we did do some Japanese DTP work for them a year or two ago.

http://www.armstrong-homes.com/

If you click on the "international" link on the main page you will go to their Japanese site. A friend of mine started their business in Japan. The parent company is fairly well known in the Seattle area.

Another company that is exporting homes to Japan from the U.S. is:

http://www.pmhi.com/

Many of the companies that were selling building products in to Japan dropped out of the market because of the price of lumber. In the 80's US companies were doing pretty well, then Canadians started undercutting on price, then Scandinavian countries started undercutting the Canadians, then the Russians started undercutting even them. . .

These are both interesting, but the Armstrong pages have tons and tons of dead links.

I'm going to contact pmhi to ask about some things, because it seems that ordering a set from the U.S. or elsewhere and then having built here would be cheaper, but I don't really have the first clue about what all is required to go through this (just meeting the Japanese requirements for Japanese homes is giving me a huge headache) and I don't really understand what exactly is included in these "packages"...

I really wish I could talk to someone who has actually ordered a kit from overseas and had it built by a Japanese construction company to find out how much more trouble it was and how much cheaper it worked out overall...

[Catoneinutica]

[ttjereth]

[ttjereth]

[quote="james"]thanks for the post, it's always good to have others' experience to look at. 80,000,000 yen is definitely a bit on the pricy side, at least for me!

the import house by maple homes my wife and i were looking to build was really quite modest, especially compared to what you seem to want ]

We've looked at Maple homes too, but I've started to lose interest in the whole imported home thing. The main factor for me was price, but despite numerous rumors floating around the internet, I haven't found anything to actually suggest that importing a kit and setting it up here is cheaper than just having a house built here in the first place (unless you build the frigging thing yourself, which I don't want to do).

We're looking at moving out to the boonies as well, and population decline and such is a concern, but the land prices in and around Tokyo just don't make the type of place we want to build feasible. We're actually scaling back and looking for an overall 100 or so tsubo (spread over 2 and a half stories) home now, just to make it so that I am not enslaved to a Japanese bank for the rest of my life...

[ttjereth]

[Nobody]

Are you sure you aren't missing a 0 there? That's roughly U.S. $400 per tsubo, I'm currently killing myself trying to find someplace that will go under 300,000 yen per tsubo!

Thank you all for the replies.
OOps I forgot one zero : please read 400,000 yens/tsubo

How do you know their prices are reasonable? I've only gone over their site a bit at the moment but I'm not seeing any prices listed anywhere? If you've spoken with them and gotten quotes, would you mind sharing them with the rest of us?

I haven't spoken with them and haven't got any quote, but they advertise some times in real estate magazines or using PDF files available on their websites (it's a system where independent local builders nationwide use Matsushita's Technostructure materials and technology, so I browsed through many websites).
Here is one of those PDFs
http://www.e-takizawa.com/index.html
don't have time to look for the others right now, sorry.


N

Looking over the second builder site you listed up there, their prices are around 330,000 yen per tsubo, so I'm guessing you really did just accidentally leave off a 0 above and are looking in the 400,000 yen per tsubo range (not 40,000 ]http://sfc.jp/ie[/url]

I skipped some of them because either I didn't like the designs or they looked too cheap.. I just assumed 住友林業 (Sumitomo Ringyo) would be in a higher price range. I will definitely have a look. Thanks for the info.


N

I've started to consider purely Japanese companies, since honestly if the price isn't significantly lower, I'm really starting to wonder sort of real benefit there is to buying a foreign home (I can have the aspects of a foreign home that I want, like a pantry, mud room, wide hallways and stairs, designed by a Japanese company, and I'm not particularly sure why the 2x4 etc. framing methods are considered so superior, but I can have a house built the same way by a Japanese company...)

Hmm. Boils down to that for me also, but Canadian, US or other foreign houses are reputed to last longer than Japanese houses, so the higher price of an imported home would be justified. Not sure about that though.

Must go back to work now:mrgreen:

[Nobody]

For those of you who read Japanese, on the http://www.nandemo-best10.com site, you can click on the names of the builders and
get word-of-mouth information about prices, sales practices, prices of quotes8-O
As anything found on the internet, whether this information is reliable is another story, of course...
http://www.nandemo-best10.com/index.html

My main source for info on prices is this site:
http://www.housingnavi.jp/

Especially this page:
http://www.housingnavi.jp/theme/0813.html (you can search by region)

However, all this data is provided by builders, so some of them may be mentioning unrealistic low prices just to lure you in their showroom.

Here are other Technostructure houses in the 400,000 yens/tsubo range.
Aomori prefecture http://www.toriyabe-h.co.jp/modelhouse/index.html
Fukui prefecture http://www.soukenhousing.jp/
Just do a google search with テクノストラクチャー 坪単価

Hope this helps

[ttjereth]