How to deal with Japanese naysayers?

[Adhesive]

Maybe it's just the people I'm surrounded by, but I get so tired of being told by Japanese people that I can't or shouldn't do something. I don't mean things like peeing off of balconies, but perfectly rational things like going surfing in the winter.

It can just be so discouraging at times...or I guess "frustrating" is the better word. "It's dangerous," "you should wait until summer, when the 18 million other Japanese will be in the water." I swim in the Great White-infested frigid waters of Northern California, I think I can handle Kyushuu in the spring, assholes!

I guess this is a poor example, and I'm just ranting, but it's kind of the straw that broke the camels back. Everytime I'm I visit my wife's hometown it's like I'm walking on eggshells not to distrupt the wa. I just needed to vent.

[GuyJean]

Maybe it's just the people I'm surrounded by, but I get so tired of being told by Japanese people that I can't or shouldn't do something....

You're lucky; you're just a 'silly gaijin'.. Just think if you were Japanese!

GJ

[AssKissinger]

How seasonal they can be really is annoying.

[Blah Pete]

but perfectly rational things like going surfing in the winter.

Fuck'em. Anytime is a good time to surf. I like winter slightly better than the spring because the winds pick up (at least in Kanto/Izu).
As long as you aren't doing anything that will hurt anyone else or anything real strange I wouldn't and don't worry about it.
One peice of advice if you aren't used to surfing in japan in the spring, watch out for the jelly fish.

[Greji]

How seasonal they can be really is annoying.

You't right and how sick can you get of hearing over and over about Nihon having "shiki". I mean like they don't believe any other country has four seasons!

[Captain Japan]

Maybe it's just the people I'm surrounded by, but I get so tired of being told by Japanese people that I can't or shouldn't do something. I don't mean things like peeing off of balconies, but perfectly rational things like going surfing in the winter.

Maybe they thought you were going to have fun?

[halfnip]

Don't forget, the Japanese are notorious for not being able to think on their own,, as they tend to follow things by the book so to speak... This is an interesting thread as I could think of A LOT of things where I've been told "Don't... because....".

[james]

Don't forget, the Japanese are notorious for not being able to think on their own,, as they tend to follow things by the book so to speak... This is an interesting thread as I could think of A LOT of things where I've been told "Don't... because....".

yeah, a good number of conversations with my wife go along the lines of:

her: "you can't do x"
me: "well.. i just did"

[ttjereth]

Maybe it's just the people I'm surrounded by, but I get so tired of being told by Japanese people that I can't or shouldn't do something. I don't mean things like peeing off of balconies, but perfectly rational things like going surfing in the winter.

It can just be so discouraging at times...or I guess "frustrating" is the better word. "It's dangerous," "you should wait until summer, when the 18 million other Japanese will be in the water." I swim in the Great White-infested frigid waters of Northern California, I think I can handle Kyushuu in the spring, assholes!

I guess this is a poor example, and I'm just ranting, but it's kind of the straw that broke the camels back. Everytime I'm I visit my wife's hometown it's like I'm walking on eggshells not to distrupt the wa. I just needed to vent.

Precisely why I have a sandbag in warehouse under our apartment

I've found that every Japanese around me seems to think they have some sort of not only parental obligation but authority in regards to me because I am the "clueless" foreigner. Nevermind that I managed to live on my own in two foreign countries for years before meeting any of these people, all of the sudden I am somehow not capable of making the simplest decisions by myself in their view.

[ttjereth]

yeah, a good number of conversations with my wife go along the lines of:

her: "you can't do x"
me: "well.. i just did"

Mine is more like:

Wife: "Don't do x"
Me: "Look at me! I'm doing x! Oooooo x is so much fuuuuuun lalalalalala"

or

Wife: "Don't do x"
Me: "Okay" (Then I go in the other room where she can't see me to do x)

[American Oyaji]

[quote="GuyJean"]You're lucky]

Actually, Japanese who have lived outside of Japan for a time and go back get fed up with the mentallity too.

[Charles]

This seems rather obvious:

J: You can't go surfing in winter!
NJ: In America, everyone* goes surfing in winter!

[SIZE="1"]*it doesn't really matter that in America, you have to be nuts to surf in winter.[/SIZE]

[Adhesive]

I spend most of my visit being told by the in-laws how bad my ideas are:

Don't approach that GT-R owner and start talking to him about his car because all GT-R owners are scary tough guys.

Don't wave at the guys next to us in the hydraulics equipped low-rider cause they're surely strapped OG's, ready to bust a cap in any ass foolish enough to say "hi".

Don't chastise those kids for throwing trash in the river.

Don't jog naked.

Stuff like that...

[ttjereth]

I spend most of my visit being told by the in-laws how bad my ideas are:

Don't approach that GT-R owner and start talking to him about his car because all GT-R owners are scary tough guys.

Don't wave at the guys next to us in the hydraulics equipped low-rider cause they're surely strapped OG's, ready to bust a cap in any ass foolish enough to say "hi".

Don't chastise those kids for throwing trash in the river.

Don't jog naked.

Stuff like that...

Have you ever told them to fuck off?

Seriously, with my recent house shopping adventures my father in law really started to piss me off and I ended up going off at him about how I am not a fucking idiot and managed to live in this country alone for years before ever meeting him, how even now I am the one who manages everything in the household (all the official crap gets done by me, my wife, the Japanese half of the couple, always screws things up and gets flustered if she has to go to city hall or file the taxes etc., so I do all of it on my own) and how we don't need their money or their help shopping for a home and are merely including them to be nice (I managed to avoid mentioning how much more difficult it is to find a home of a decent size and price because of having to plan in space for them) and since doing so he has gotten off my back and has either stopping with the admonitions/cautions or at least doesn't spout them where I can hear them anymore.

It's odd because my mother in law is the real mother hen, constantly harping and nitpicking everything, but she is smart enough to leave me alone, my father in law is usually a nice guy, but he's not too bright, and gets real obnoxious and Mr. know-it-all when it comes to discussions of money (despite the fact that this is the guy who blew, literally, millions of dollars on bad stocks during the bubble and that my parents in law wouldn't have any money left over from better financial times if it wasn't for my mother in law...)


You might want to listen to them about the kids throwing trash though, kids these days are crazy, you never know what they might do

[Adhesive]

Have you ever told them to fuck off?

Seriously, with my recent house shopping adventures my father in law really started to piss me off and I ended up going off at him about how I am not a fucking idiot and managed to live in this country alone for years before ever meeting him, how even now I am the one who manages everything in the household (all the official crap gets done by me, my wife, the Japanese half of the couple, always screws things up and gets flustered if she has to go to city hall or file the taxes etc., so I do all of it on my own) and how we don't need their money or their help shopping for a home and are merely including them to be nice (I managed to avoid mentioning how much more difficult it is to find a home of a decent size and price because of having to plan in space for them) and since doing so he has gotten off my back and has either stopping with the admonitions/cautions or at least doesn't spout them where I can hear them anymore.

It's odd because my mother in law is the real mother hen, constantly harping and nitpicking everything, but she is smart enough to leave me alone, my father in law is usually a nice guy, but he's not too bright, and gets real obnoxious and Mr. know-it-all when it comes to discussions of money (despite the fact that this is the guy who blew, literally, millions of dollars on bad stocks during the bubble and that my parents in law wouldn't have any money left over from better financial times if it wasn't for my mother in law...)


You might want to listen to them about the kids throwing trash though, kids these days are crazy, you never know what they might do

I have actually gone off on my father-in-law before and he immediately apologized for his behavior, but that was when he was visiting stateside, so he probably felt more vulnerable. I understand that they are motivated by what they perceive as being in my best interests, so I don't complain much about the discouragement that goes on when I'm in Japan. I just need to get better at not giving a fuck myself and just go ahead and do what I want...something it seems many of you more senior gaijins have mastered while in Japan.

[ttjereth]

I have actually gone off on my father-in-law before and he immediately apologized for his behavior, but that was when he was visiting stateside, so he probably felt more vulnerable. I understand that they are motivated by what they perceive as being in my best interests, so I don't complain much about the discouragement that goes on when I'm in Japan. I just need to get better at not giving a fuck myself and just go ahead and do what I want...something it seems many of you more senior gaijins have mastered while in Japan.

I'm not sure if I'm more senior than you in any sense, but even when you try not to give a shit about what they say, hearing constantly can still get on your nerves.

My wife does it all the time too. About everything from the stupidest shit (whistling at night) to more serious things (how I am expected to behave at certain Japanese gatherings). I understand where it comes from, because my father in law doesn't seem to be able to take a piss without my mother in law's approval, but my family in the states was fairly liberal once I got to be more or less an adult, so moving half way around the world on my own to even more freedom and then having my wife and her family try to baby me is even harder to swallow

[Greji]

I'm not sure if I'm more senior than you in any sense, but even when you try not to give a shit about what they say, hearing constantly can still get on your nerves.

You know, I think it all goes back to the un-witting brain washing about the uniqueness of the isles!

Even excluding in-laws, relatives of relatives, etc., I never fail to be amazed at the fact that not just a few J-people are so convinced that an FG must be helped with every little thing that occurs in the country. To them, being an FG, means that the person is totally incapable of functioning in the unique and complex society that is Nippon.

I know a lot of them mean well, but they don't realize what a pain in the arse they can be. Especially, when it is something that you obviously know more about then they do, they still don't realize what's happening. It can definitely make you want to choke them as they try to interject themselves in every little thing you are doing!

Oh well, TIJ....

[amdg]

[Samurai_Jerk]

Maybe it's just the people I'm surrounded by, but I get so tired of being told by Japanese people that I can't or shouldn't do something. I don't mean things like peeing off of balconies, but perfectly rational things like going surfing in the winter.

Holy shit! You go surfing in winter? That's almost as crazy as wearing shorts in May, taking birth control pills, or sleeping with a fan on.

Isn't great when you've been speaking to someone in Japanese for 10 minutes, and suddenly they ask someone to translate a phrase or word for you. And then when you say you understand, they're like, "What? You speak Japanese!?!?"

*Edit: I meant speaking to someone in Japanese, not in "Japan".

[succubusqueen]

Holy shit! You go surfing in winter? That's almost as crazy as wearing shorts in May, taking birth control pills, or sleeping with a fan on.

Isn't great when you've been speaking to someone in Japan for 10 minutes, and suddenly they ask someone to translate a phrase or word for you. And then when you say you understand, they're like, "What? You speak Japanese!?!?"

yup...that is annoying...but also if you see a lot of japanese tourist when they travel (in groups most of the time), I guess they are used to been told what to do and not to do abroad. But as FG...we are more used to being independent..so i guess it is hard for them to understand that.

[ttjereth]

You know, I think it all goes back to the un-witting brain washing about the uniqueness of the isles!

Even excluding in-laws, relatives of relatives, etc., I never fail to be amazed at the fact that not just a few J-people are so convinced that an FG must be helped with every little thing that occurs in the country. To them, being an FG, means that the person is totally incapable of functioning in the unique and complex society that is Nippon.

I know a lot of them mean well, but they don't realize what a pain in the arse they can be. Especially, when it is something that you obviously know more about then they do, they still don't realize what's happening. It can definitely make you want to choke them as they try to interject themselves in every little thing you are doing!

Oh well, TIJ....

It's hard sometimes. Like trying not to get angry at a child who's technically not doing anything wrong, but still being an annoying little bastard.

I always feel bad after going off at the father in law though, it's like kicking a puppy.

[ttjereth]

[Iraira]

One of my favorites was buying a meal in Shinagawa, the cashier was try to be helpful I suppose, so when ringing me up she said "zatto uill be five hundred go jyuu en"...

550 yen for a meal? First Kitchen, Lotteria, or McClown?

[ttjereth]

550 yen for a meal? First Kitchen, Lotteria, or McClown?

It was like a sandwich at a food court. Can't remember the name of the place, I think it was the building real close to the station with the bowling alley in it.

[wakela]

I try to avoid the "fuck off" tactic. I think it plays to the out of control FG stereotype. A theory that I am toying with is that we think the Js are weak because they don't stand up for themselves. But they think we are weak because we can't push aside our personal desires for the sake of the greater good. I think that when we blow up at them, even if they apologize, they are thinking "what a dipshit" not "oh, what have I done."

But I have it easy in that my in-laws drive my wife nuts, too. So I can complain to her, and it gets back to them in one of those incomprehensible, 4-dimensional chess, Japanesey ways that they criticize each other.

Having said that, there are two aspects of Japanese nitpickery that drive me ape balls. One is the fact they they are right just often enough that I can't completely shut it all out.
"Oh yeah, and just why the hell can't I swim in November?!"
"Box jellyfish will kill you."
"Oh."

The other thing is driving. Driving is the one thing that I actually CAN DO. Yet I can't put my car in reverse without some nutbag running out to guide me out of the parking space. Thanks, now not only do I need to monitor three mirrors, I need to look at your silly, handwaving ass to make sure I don't run you over. Not that I don't want to.

I said that I try to avoid the "fuck off" tactic. I do not always succeed.

[ttjereth]

I try to avoid the "fuck off" tactic. I think it plays to the out of control FG stereotype. A theory that I am toying with is that we think the Js are weak because they don't stand up for themselves. But they think we are weak because we can't push aside our personal desires for the sake of the greater good. I think that when we blow up at them, even if they apologize, they are thinking "what a dipshit" not "oh, what have I done."

But I have it easy in that my in-laws drive my wife nuts, too. So I can complain to her, and it gets back to them in one of those incomprehensible, 4-dimensional chess, Japanesey ways that they criticize each other.

Having said that, there are two aspects of Japanese nitpickery that drive me ape balls. One is the fact they they are right just often enough that I can't completely shut it all out.
"Oh yeah, and just why the hell can't I swim in November?!"
"Box jellyfish will kill you."
"Oh."

The other thing is driving. Driving is the one thing that I actually CAN DO. Yet I can't put my car in reverse without some nutbag running out to guide me out of the parking space. Thanks, now not only do I need to monitor three mirrors, I need to look at your silly, handwaving ass to make sure I don't run you over. Not that I don't want to.

I said that I try to avoid the "fuck off" tactic. I do not always succeed.

Not completely true. I know plenty of Japanese who use the "fuck off" tactic with their in laws as well. The whole "we gaman everything and are stronger for it" thing is a myth. When a foreigner explodes, it's because he's a foreigner, but when a Japanese explodes there's some other reason.

Hell, I know several Japanese women who are close to outright violent with their (also Japanese) mother in laws.

I think you will also find that the people in the upper ends of Japanese society do not tend to be so good at the whole gaman thing.

[American Oyaji]

people in the upper ends of Japanese society do not tend to be so good at the whole gaman thing.

[wakela]

Not completely true. I know plenty of Japanese who use the "fuck off" tactic with their in laws as well. The whole "we gaman everything and are stronger for it" thing is a myth. When a foreigner explodes, it's because he's a foreigner, but when a Japanese explodes there's some other reason.

I don't know if I would go as far as "myth." At the office I'm surrounded by gamaners all day long.
"Did you go somewhere over the holiday."
"Well, I had to come to the office for two days, so we couldn't go anywhere."
But you were talking about family, and I'm sure the rules of engagement are different.
And I'm not saying Js never tell anyone to fuck off, I just think it's lamer to do that here than it is in the West. Unless said J has reached a certain level in the hierarchy, then they can do what the want, i.e. obasans.

[ttjereth]

I don't know if I would go as far as "myth." At the office I'm surrounded by gamaners all day long.
"Did you go somewhere over the holiday."
"Well, I had to come to the office for two days, so we couldn't go anywhere."
But you were talking about family, and I'm sure the rules of engagement are different.
And I'm not saying Js never tell anyone to fuck off, I just think it's lamer to do that here than it is in the West. Unless said J has reached a certain level in the hierarchy, then they can do what the want, i.e. obasans.

I didn't say "gaman" was a myth, I said the whole "we gaman everything and are stronger for it" thing was a myth. The upper ends of society I was speaking of were more specifically business people rather than obaasans. It's been my experience that the most successful businessmen here are not terribly good at gaman themselves, but are great at making other people exercise it.

As for reactions to someone blowing up about something to their in-laws, I don't think anywhere in the world is it necessarily considered a good thing, nor do I think there are many places where the person being yelled at is going to think "wow, that sure was cool and manly of him to chew me out like that/oh no, what have I done to anger my beloved son-in-law". However I don't think the dynamics are that much different in Japan, to where everyone who hears about you having, for example, chewed out your father in law for being a pain in the ass about something is going to think "what a dipshit".

I'd say in most places in the world neither the wife, nor either of the parents-in-law on the receiving end of the criticism are going to be happy about receiving, nothing special about Japan there, there might be more gaman involved on the receiving end because in the states you are more likely to get yelled at right back rather than have them apologize and back down, but honestly if it acheives the desired result (getting them off your back), who really cares?

On top of all that, if anything, I would say that putting up with something for a long period of time without a peep (gaman) and then suddenly exploding about it at some point is a VERY Japanese way of behaving, and if I were behaving "more American" I would have probably brought it up as soon as it began rather than waiting till I just couldn't put up with it anymore

[AssKissinger]

The other thing is driving. Driving is the one thing that I actually CAN DO. Yet I can't put my car in reverse without some nutbag running out to guide me out of the parking space. Thanks, now not only do I need to monitor three mirrors, I need to look at your silly, handwaving ass to make sure I don't run you over. Not that I don't want to.

Totally. One time I was driving out of a gas station and the guy was waving for me to take to the street but I was uncomfartable with the brief opening. My wife was like 'but he said it was ok' and I was like 'who gives a damn about this guy I'm the Goddamn driver here. He's just another fucking distraction.' Driving in Japan is hard enough without some little Munchkin acting incredulous because I'm not ready to turn my life over to his decisions.