Advice? Alternatives to JET, extended stay in Japan

[Kanchou]

On another note, if you go for CIR and they decide you're not quite qualified they will apparently allow you to become an ALT, but not visa-versa.

So, you're actually better off applying for CIR to at least increase your chances of not getting shot down in the selection process (which is such a drag it's not even funny), even if you're not quite qualified.

[ttjereth]

On another note, if you go for CIR and they decide you're not quite qualified they will apparently allow you to become an ALT, but not visa-versa.

So, you're actually better off applying for CIR to at least increase your chances of not getting shot down in the selection process (which is such a drag it's not even funny), even if you're not quite qualified.

That's something I didn't know and must have changed after my time. When I originally went for my interview years ago I was sure I had done horribly at the interview and wasn't going to get any position.

I wonder if this wasn't implemented because so many people who could have been CIRs didn't try to apply as one for fear failing to meet the stricter requirements.

In any event, if that's the case anyone applying for JET who thinks they might be even remotely qualified for the CIR position should apply and drastically improve their chances.

[Baka Chan]

As an FSO he could end up practically anywhere on the planet and still not get any experience that helps him whatsoever in coming to Japan. Being posted as an FSO in Zimbabwe for 3 years is not likely to help him get a job here.



I'm not a "JET representative", try re-reading my posts and you could probably figure that out. I just didn't understand why so many people seem to think JET is such a dead end, when all the JETs I knew who stayed on in Japan ended up fairly sucessful.

The reason I said "Getting an FSO position is infinitely more difficult than getting a JET position" was not to say he'd better go with JET (an FSO position is obviously a better job, with better benefits etc.), but was me trying to be polite in saying that if he is being rejected from JET for something other than some BS arbitrary reason (i.e., not being rejected out of hand simply because he was an art major but because of poor writing skills, unsatisfactory schools records or something else that would tend to hurt his chances anywhere) than the odds of him getting an FSO position aren't very good. On top of which even if he does get one, he only has a vague chance of actually ending up in Japan.

I also don't read his posts as saying he is looking for alternatives to JET despite the thread title but rather him looking for a way to get to Japan, specifically because of comments like "I'm more than willing to teach English...but outside of JET it seems like a wild west of sorts. There is no definitive answer as to what I can expect...outside of, I'm going to be screwed one way or another."

I definitely do not see being an English teacher as the best way to get to Japan, but if he is going to come over as an English teacher anyway, he'd be better off doing it in a relatively stable situation like JET, than the total crap shoot that most eikaiwa companies are.

If he wants to come over on JET, I'd suggest, as mentioned previously, he reapply as a CIR (assuming his language skills are up to snuff, the CIR interviews are carried out partially in Japanese and there is a test) and play down his art background as much as possible, if even mentioning it at all, and instead play up his office work experience, background in Asian studies and cram as much bullshit about wanting to "learn more about Japanese culture (which of course is the culture he was most interested in during his Asian studies, according to his essay anyway) and language while sharing his own culture and language". Even as an ALT I'd try to stay away from the art background as much as possible. Also get other people's opinions on the essay and any other materials accompanying the application.

I also understand he wants to be an artist, but he needs to decide which he wants more, that or coming to Japan. If he doesn't want to come to Japan if he can't be an artist here, then okay, but, and he should feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, I read his posts mostly as him just looking for a way to get here, and then trying to break into some sort of art field once he's here, which is probably for the best anyway in my opinion, since I've not often heard of anyone other than relatively established/well known artists getting here and getting by here on their art background alone, especially not illustrators who tend to be in tremendous supply in the native population here already anyway.

If his main interest is in just getting here, than eikaiwa or school (as a student) are definitely going to be the simplest methods available. Although for school he needs to have money. Money to pay for the schooling and at least temporarily for all the visa paperwork to prove he can support himself here (assuming that you still need to provide proof of funding when you get a student visa like you did way back when I first considered doing so) and then of course money to actually support himself since student visa's have restrictions on work. You took classes at Temple, but were you on a student visa? If so you are more qualified than me to point out the specifics of the student visas to him, I only know what I've read on the immigration website and obtained through other second hand sources. It's not generally something I keep tabs on.

You made your point about going through JET as if you're a JET cheerleader. JET Rep was sarcasm, I didn't mean to ruffle your feathers...
And, I never, ever bashed the JET program, so I don't know why you find it worth while to debate my responses/suggestions. That's all fine, but again, I never said anything negative about JET. I know lots of JET people and some like it, some do not. Most JET teachers I know do their "time" (as a few have called it) and leave. Seeing as how most people I know ended up in the rural country-sides all over Japan, as opposed to big cities like Tokyo, Soporro, or even Osaka, there isn't any guarantee that this kid from NYC is gonna actually end up in a place that will suite his needs or be close to his g/f.
Who says 3 years in Zimbabwe wouldn't even be conducive to an artist's development as well as boost chances on a JET application? Or any job resume for that matter. After all, JET wants people who can bring a breathe of experience, outlook, etc., to the program, correct? Based on Japanese language skills, there is just as much opportunity to end up at a US Embassy in Japan as there is ending up Zimbabwe, worst case senario. The process is scheduled, long and drawn out, but so is the JET program. Nothing worth doing is gonna be easy granted, but there is no end-all or be-all way to live in Japan.
From what Samurabi provided us in this discussion, we have no way of knowing why he was really rejected. Whether or not it was based on appearance, experience, background, interview skills, whatever... Just speculating, he wasn't picked because they didn't want him. Unless he is going to post copies of the rejection letters, there is no point in going there.
As far as student VISAs are concerned, I went through the school. But, Japan is going to take money into consideration.
And yes I read all the posts, but I am offering alternatives as what's in the title of this thread.

[ttjereth]

And, I never, ever bashed the JET program, so I don't know why you find it worth while to debate my responses/suggestions. That's all fine, but again, I never said anything negative about JET. I know lots of JET people and some like it, some do not. Most JET teachers I know do their "time" (as a few have called it) and leave. Seeing as how most people I know ended up in the rural country-sides all over Japan, as opposed to big cities like Tokyo, Soporro, or even Osaka, there isn't any guarantee that this kid from NYC is gonna actually end up in a place that will suite his needs or be close to his g/f.

I'm not actually attempting to "debate" your responses for the sake of arguing with you, but just to provide more information/viewpoints on your suggestions. My replies are honestly more directed at Samurabi than you, because honestly what he does/does not do doesn't really matter to me or you. Whether he joins JET, gets a position as a FSO, or runs off to Afghanistant to join a para-miltary illustrator's army doesn't affect me in one way or the other.

I've never insinuated you did say anything negative about JET, and honestly I'm not trying to defend JET's honor or anything here. It's more or less a complete waste of a program that accomplishes close to 0 of its stated goals (the only reason I explained my reasoning on it to you was because of your "JET representative" and "cheerleader" type shots). The JET discussion originally came about because other people in this thread and other threads, often point out to people considering JET how bad of an option it is, and I don't think it is that bad of an option if you are just going to be farting around doing some other half-assed job while you look for something you really want to do anyway.

Everyone is free to express their opinion on JET or anything else, but since my experience and the experiences of people I know who were on it were generally positive and worthwhile in terms of making reliable, decent money and using it as a stepping stone to something else (or at the very least better than working at an Eikaiwa school for 3 years at 75% of the pay).

If Samurabi, or anyone else who may read this thread in the future (this isn't exactly a private discussion here) does go for JET there is pretty much 0 chance they will end up in a big city, because there are next to no JET posts in most of the big cities. Tokyo has none (the "JET" positions here are only those available to people who have "graduated" from JET and move into whatever those supervisor JET positions are called). There's a big enough pool of foreigners here they have no need to bother with JET when they can hire under much less restrictive terms and pay out significantly less money. And even for the bigger cities that do have JETs, there are huge numbers of people who want to be placed there, making chances of getting that placement nearly non-existant. But you can generally get within 2 hours travel of a given location by requesting that area.

Who says 3 years in Zimbabwe wouldn't even be conducive to an artist's development as well as boost chances on a JET application? Or any job resume for that matter. After all, JET wants people who can bring a breathe of experience, outlook, etc., to the program, correct? Based on Japanese language skills, there is just as much opportunity to end up at a US Embassy in Japan as there is ending up Zimbabwe, worst case senario. The process is scheduled, long and drawn out, but so is the JET program. Nothing worth doing is gonna be easy granted, but there is no end-all or be-all way to live in Japan.

You are making subtle but important mistakes in parsing what I am saying. I didn't say going to Zimbabwe for three years wouldn't contribute to his development as an artist, I haven't spoken to that at all. I did say it won't help him get to Japan, and I still don't see how it would. Sure, anything is possible, but possible and probable are completely different things, and just because it's technically possible doesn't mean Angelina Jolie is going to be waiting for you when you get home from work tonight. Just like somehow him going to Zimbabwe for three years isn't likely to impress anyone hiring him in the future unless they are hiring him to do something dealing with Zimbabwe.

For JET, they don't tend to look for people who are worldly and know/have experienced a lot of places. They are looking for people to introduce their own culture and are interested in Japan. There were at one point even limits for ALTs in terms of how long they could have been in Japan for prior to applying for JET. They generally tend to look for young, inexperienced types more, which is why they make their annual parades around to colleges and universities in the states.

Also, I'm not sure how familiar you are with the FSO position, but his language skills don't guarantee anything and there is not in any way shape or form "just as much opportunity to end up at a US Embassy in Japan". I have two friends who both are/were FSO's (one is still in the Department of State, the other has since moved on to other work), one of whom was at least as capable in Japanese as I was when he graduated (since we both studied in the same program under the same professors a year apart) but has not set one toe in Japan for work in 10 years as an FSO/state department employee. In fact, the vast majority of his career has been spent in Europe. When you are taken on as an FSO you have to agree that you will go wherever they want to send you, it's not quite as restricted as say military service, but there is still no guarantee you will get anywhere even remotely close to (or as with my friend, even on the same continent as) your desired location.

On top of that it is extraordinarily competive (several hundred hires out of 10's of thousands of applicants). If you can get it, and don't mind being sent to any of 300 some odd potential postings it's a great job, secure, good benefits and you can more or less build a career on it with no problems, but as I've said before, I'm assuming Samurabi is more interested in advice on coming to Japan/ways to come to Japan rather than general career advice, and frankly if that's not the case, why the hell would he be asking for advice on this board?

From what Samurabi provided us in this discussion, we have no way of knowing why he was really rejected. Whether or not it was based on appearance, experience, background, interview skills, whatever... Just speculating, he wasn't picked because they didn't want him. Unless he is going to post copies of the rejection letters, there is no point in going there.

More than likely he doesn't know why he was rejected either. JET doesn't provide reasons for rejections.

[Baka Chan]

I'm not actually attempting to "debate" your responses for the sake of arguing with you, but just to provide more information/viewpoints on your suggestions. My replies are honestly more directed at Samurabi than you, because honestly what he does/does not do doesn't really matter to me or you. Whether he joins JET, gets a position as a FSO, or runs off to Afghanistant to join a para-miltary illustrator's army doesn't affect me in one way or the other.

I've never insinuated you did say anything negative about JET, and honestly I'm not trying to defend JET's honor or anything here. It's more or less a complete waste of a program that accomplishes close to 0 of its stated goals (the only reason I explained my reasoning on it to you was because of your "JET representative" and "cheerleader" type shots). The JET discussion originally came about because other people in this thread and other threads, often point out to people considering JET how bad of an option it is, and I don't think it is that bad of an option if you are just going to be farting around doing some other half-assed job while you look for something you really want to do anyway.

Everyone is free to express their opinion on JET or anything else, but since my experience and the experiences of people I know who were on it were generally positive and worthwhile in terms of making reliable, decent money and using it as a stepping stone to something else (or at the very least better than working at an Eikaiwa school for 3 years at 75% of the pay).

If Samurabi, or anyone else who may read this thread in the future (this isn't exactly a private discussion here) does go for JET there is pretty much 0 chance they will end up in a big city, because there are next to no JET posts in most of the big cities. Tokyo has none (the "JET" positions here are only those available to people who have "graduated" from JET and move into whatever those supervisor JET positions are called). There's a big enough pool of foreigners here they have no need to bother with JET when they can hire under much less restrictive terms and pay out significantly less money. And even for the bigger cities that do have JETs, there are huge numbers of people who want to be placed there, making chances of getting that placement nearly non-existant. But you can generally get within 2 hours travel of a given location by requesting that area.


You are making subtle but important mistakes in parsing what I am saying. I didn't say going to Zimbabwe for three years wouldn't contribute to his development as an artist, I haven't spoken to that at all. I did say it won't help him get to Japan, and I still don't see how it would. Sure, anything is possible, but possible and probable are completely different things, and just because it's technically possible doesn't mean Angelina Jolie is going to be waiting for you when you get home from work tonight. Just like somehow him going to Zimbabwe for three years isn't likely to impress anyone hiring him in the future unless they are hiring him to do something dealing with Zimbabwe.

For JET, they don't tend to look for people who are worldly and know/have experienced a lot of places. They are looking for people to introduce their own culture and are interested in Japan. There were at one point even limits for ALTs in terms of how long they could have been in Japan for prior to applying for JET. They generally tend to look for young, inexperienced types more, which is why they make their annual parades around to colleges and universities in the states.

Also, I'm not sure how familiar you are with the FSO position, but his language skills don't guarantee anything and there is not in any way shape or form "just as much opportunity to end up at a US Embassy in Japan". I have two friends who both are/were FSO's (one is still in the Department of State, the other has since moved on to other work), one of whom was at least as capable in Japanese as I was when he graduated (since we both studied in the same program under the same professors a year apart) but has not set one toe in Japan for work in 10 years as an FSO/state department employee. In fact, the vast majority of his career has been spent in Europe. When you are taken on as an FSO you have to agree that you will go wherever they want to send you, it's not quite as restricted as say military service, but there is still no guarantee you will get anywhere even remotely close to (or as with my friend, even on the same continent as) your desired location.

On top of that it is extraordinarily competive (several hundred hires out of 10's of thousands of applicants). If you can get it, and don't mind being sent to any of 300 some odd potential postings it's a great job, secure, good benefits and you can more or less build a career on it with no problems, but as I've said before, I'm assuming Samurabi is more interested in advice on coming to Japan/ways to come to Japan rather than general career advice, and frankly if that's not the case, why the hell would he be asking for advice on this board?


More than likely he doesn't know why he was rejected either. JET doesn't provide reasons for rejections.

After all this ranting, you are still stuck on JET... And, I am very familiar with FSO position, I have a friend who is a FSO, who happens to work in Tokyo. If you think I'm taking it the wrong way, then you are also taking my words out of context. Point is, he asked for advice and alternatives. If it ends up at career moves, it is what it is. Chillax

[samurabi]

Wow, a lot to reply to here.

First, I would like to thank you guys for the advice and suggestions that you have provided. I really didn't expect so much, and outside of what I will actually do and what may or may not happen in the next few months, this at least makes me feel better about all this rejection.

One thing that I guess I neglected to mention is that I'm looking for the quickest way to get there. I guess I have a lot of things to consider as far as the next few years or so, but in light of what has happened, I was hoping to get everything in order by the end of the year.

Applying for a CIR position seems like one of the best bets. Of course, it's outside of being an artist, but I already mentioned that I would do what it takes. In any case, it's a much more suitable position than an ALT, of which I was hoping for before.

It's worth a try, but I'm still worried about how much language experience they would be expecting. I have the certification, and I'm fully confident in my reading/comprehension skills, but I'm not as confident a speaker. A part of me being in Japan is gaining the confidence as a speaker that I feel that I've been lacking.

...Though I guess if it came down to it, I could prepare and do well...I'm just getting my concerns out in the open.

Concerning some of the other suggestions, like going on a tourist visa, that would be nice, but it's risky in my situation because I have little money. The job I have now hardly lets me save money, if at all, and half of my monthly income goes to my rent. It would take me about 2-3 years to save enough to do something like that.

Actually, I might be alright if I was able to stay with my girlfriend for a large part of the time, but that's a no go.

...Actually, let me give you some brief background on that situation.

My girlfriend was living in New York until summer of last year because her father has stomach cancer so she had to go back to care of him. So, me bumming around at her place with her father isn't really a possibility.

One more thing I wanted to mention about this, is that she lives in Fukuoka. I understand that being close to my girlfriend shouldn't be my priority, but given where she lives I'm alright to just be in Kyushu, or somewhere there about. Inaka is fine as long as I have internet and access to food, shelter, etc.

...I'm going to take a small break to post again. I just got back from they gym and am pretty knackered.

[ttjereth]

One thing that I guess I neglected to mention is that I'm looking for the quickest way to get there. I guess I have a lot of things to consider as far as the next few years or so, but in light of what has happened, I was hoping to get everything in order by the end of the year.

Applying for a CIR position seems like one of the best bets. Of course, it's outside of being an artist, but I already mentioned that I would do what it takes. In any case, it's a much more suitable position than an ALT, of which I was hoping for before.

It's worth a try, but I'm still worried about how much language experience they would be expecting. I have the certification, and I'm fully confident in my reading/comprehension skills, but I'm not as confident a speaker. A part of me being in Japan is gaining the confidence as a speaker that I feel that I've been lacking.

...Though I guess if it came down to it, I could prepare and do well...I'm just getting my concerns out in the open.

One more thing I wanted to mention about this, is that she lives in Fukuoka. I understand that being close to my girlfriend shouldn't be my priority, but given where she lives I'm alright to just be in Kyushu, or somewhere there about. Inaka is fine as long as I have internet and access to food, shelter, etc.

How much Japanese ability you need depends entirely on who you interview with. Generally speaking, even if you don't have a high degree of speaking ability/confidence, if you can read and write fairly well, you should be fine. Applying for the CIR requires a short Japanese essay and the interview (way back when I took it anyway) has a part where you have to speak Japanese a bit (which can be a bit nerve wracking because it's you on one side of the table and three embassy staff on the other side) and then a bit where they give you a little Japanese article or essay and ask you to read it out loud and to try and explain it in English. So you should be able to show off any skills you have in any of the major language areas (reading, writing, speaking, listening).

I did awful on the reading bit at the time (I was always better at remembering the meaning of kanji than the readings) but still got a CIR position.

As for your lack of confidence, I wouldn't phrase it quite that way for the interview/essay, but you can use that to your advantage. Tell them you think you have a firm grasp of the basics, but have not had much opportunity to regularly practice speaking and look forward to the opportunity to do so and to improving that area of your skillset as a JET.

You "shouldn't" have too much of a problem getting placed in Kyushu I'd think, but even if you get placed somewhere else, you're still significantly closer than you would be otherwise, and unless you end up somewhere in Tohoku or farther north you can still make it down to see your girl on occasional weekends (transport expenses will add up though).

Another thing though, DO NOT mention the girlfriend to JET at all, in any way, shape or form. Whether it be the truth or not, you don't want to give them the impression that you are just trying to use JET as a means to get close to your gf.

In the place where it asks you for your reasons for requested placement areas make up some crap about being fascinated with the local dialect of the area (if you use that line make sure you study up on at least a bit of the dialect, enough to point out some differences between it and standard Tokyo Japanese, before your interview) and/or how there are things specific to that area that you want to live by/study (famous sites like temples, shrines, perhaps some oddball martial art variation only studied/taught in the area, those sorts of things).

Whatever you end up doing, best of luck.

[Baka Chan]

Wow, a lot to reply to here.

First, I would like to thank you guys for the advice and suggestions that you have provided. I really didn't expect so much, and outside of what I will actually do and what may or may not happen in the next few months, this at least makes me feel better about all this rejection.

One thing that I guess I neglected to mention is that I'm looking for the quickest way to get there. I guess I have a lot of things to consider as far as the next few years or so, but in light of what has happened, I was hoping to get everything in order by the end of the year.

Applying for a CIR position seems like one of the best bets. Of course, it's outside of being an artist, but I already mentioned that I would do what it takes. In any case, it's a much more suitable position than an ALT, of which I was hoping for before.

It's worth a try, but I'm still worried about how much language experience they would be expecting. I have the certification, and I'm fully confident in my reading/comprehension skills, but I'm not as confident a speaker. A part of me being in Japan is gaining the confidence as a speaker that I feel that I've been lacking.

...Though I guess if it came down to it, I could prepare and do well...I'm just getting my concerns out in the open.

Concerning some of the other suggestions, like going on a tourist visa, that would be nice, but it's risky in my situation because I have little money. The job I have now hardly lets me save money, if at all, and half of my monthly income goes to my rent. It would take me about 2-3 years to save enough to do something like that.

Actually, I might be alright if I was able to stay with my girlfriend for a large part of the time, but that's a no go.

...Actually, let me give you some brief background on that situation.

My girlfriend was living in New York until summer of last year because her father has stomach cancer so she had to go back to care of him. So, me bumming around at her place with her father isn't really a possibility.

One more thing I wanted to mention about this, is that she lives in Fukuoka. I understand that being close to my girlfriend shouldn't be my priority, but given where she lives I'm alright to just be in Kyushu, or somewhere there about. Inaka is fine as long as I have internet and access to food, shelter, etc.

...I'm going to take a small break to post again. I just got back from they gym and am pretty knackered.

Cheers to you bro. I'm sure everyone would like to hear what you end up doing and how it turns out. Can't wait for the post!:)