Eikaiwa? JET? Some other random job? For a "gaijin" from Australia!

[shazam]

Gday all,

I've been perusing the forums for a bit now reading about other peoples experiences with Eikaiwa and Jet and I must admit I am probably more put off then encouraged after reading them!

However, I am still as determined as I was before to goto Japan to work in some form or the other.

But what should I do. I've heard other people experiences but I just don't know if it applies to me personally? Perhaps some of you wonderful ppl on this board can help.

Firstly about myself. I'm from Sydney and am 27 years old (am I too old!?!). I guess you could say I'm a "gaijin" but Taiwanese. I've been in Australia most of my life and have worked in the finance industry for 5 years. In terms of study, I have a graduate degree in commerce majoring in Accounting. From what I have seen of Japan, I love it all! Whether it be as paramount as their value systems and beliefs or their food or their vast array of transformers! *droolz* or some of their quirqy sense of fashion or ..... My preference is for some place not too far from a major city. It doesn't have to be whack bang in the city centre but some place that will still allow me access to the modern aspects of Japanese culture and life.

I'm by no means trying to change careers. What I am looking for is to finally do something for myself and live a bit. My idea of "living" is to work overseas and trully experience what it is like to live in another country with a completely different culture and completely different way of doing things and Japan seems the most ideal. I've thought of Taiwan and China, but given that my background is the same, its not much of an experience.

Having read all those posts, it appears that many people have been put in really isolated towns or have extra long hours and simply just not enough opportunity to experience anything more then reading a textbook or preparing classes! I've also read about how applying for eikaiwa's and/or JET is even harder now given the collapse of NOVA... Further to that, I've now read about how a teaching qualification is required?!

Soooo will it be difficult for me to apply given my circumstances? Will it be more likely that I would be placed in some isolated town far far away in some alternate universe? Would I not likely succeed in my application? Would I be looked upon less favoroubly since I'm not a "white" gaijin? Would I be seen as "boring" given my finance background? Even if I am a well suited candidate, should I even apply?! Should I persue some other avenue?!

Would really love to hear what other people have to say and what pearls of wisdom you may wish to part onto my confused state of mind!

Thank you for taking the time to read this.

Oh and I'm pretty sure its obvious that Japan is my favored option atm, but I'm still open to suggestions for other countries.

Oh oh and the other thing I failed to mention is that I'm not really looking to continue teaching. I must emphasis experience of Japanese life is the top priority and not just a short 3 month holiday etc...

Oh oh oh and one last thing I promise. Would especially love to hear from fellow aussies in Japan who have taken the leap of faith.

[amdg]

OK, so here’s the list of ways to come to Japan, starting with the most preferable way at the top and going down to the least preferable.

1. Get transferred by your current employer to work in their Japanese Branch/subsidiary.

2. Get hired directly by a foreign company operating in Japan.

3. Get hired directly by a Japanese company in Japan.

4 – 8. A billion different exchange programs, scholarships, visiting professorships etc etc.

9. Get accepted on the JET program.

10. Get hired by a NOVA-esq eikaiwa.

11. Come over on tourist visa and start looking for work.

[I’m probably forgetting some other ways, but no doubt someone will be along to improve my list.]

Seems like you have an education and some experience, yet you’re deliberately choosing the options that will be harder on you and will end up being dead-ends in terms of your career. You say you want to be in a relatively urban environment, so you will get the same ‘Japan’ experience in any of the above positions, but your life will be a lot better the closer you can get to the top of the list.

Sounds like you are coming anyway, but you should definitely make the effort to come here on the best terms possible.

[Charles]

[Visitor K]

ive always heard that it is fairly difficult for asians to teach english in asia because many people will usually want a blonde/blue-eyed teacher.. but it sounds like you arent really looking to be a teacher, which i think might make you want to reconsider your options.. since ive been teaching english abroad (4 1/2 years) ive had friends from back in the states try to do it, but just to travel a bit and learn a language.. it doesnt take long before they realize that if they are teaching enough to make a living, they dont have as much time as they wanted to travel and study.. the teaching hours in japan are LONG (i had as many as 38 contact hours in a six day week when i first went over) you probably will not have as much time for that 'japanese life' experience you had in mind.
look into it more anyway, you can do the working holiday visa from australia, right?

[blackcat]

Good Luck Shazam

The Eikaiwa thing is OVER, well pretty much anyway. After the NOVA collapse only 30% of students have re-entered Eikaiwa studies which is a shame because as evil as NOVA were (and are) they did give people like yourself a chance to experience what you want and have some fun. More than the Youkoso BS campaign will ever do!

I remember those days when it seemed like there was a new FG coming to Japan everyday! It was fun, lots of drinking visiting temples LOL and just meeting new people.....greed is a terrible thing isn't it monkey arse!! (saRU hashi) the ex CEO of NOVA who fucked it all up.

I think the JET program is your best bet, you have up to 35...get a TESL certificate or RSA / Cambridge CELTA if you are serious.

It is not "easy" anymore....I have friends that used to cruise and now they are flat out holding down various part time gigs.

[shazam]

AMDG (what does that stand for btw), I would prefer also to go with either my existing company or some other company in my industry, but I always have the impression that work hours in finance would be far more greater then that of teaching. Would you say this is the case? And if it were, I guess it would mean less opportunity for me to explore.

Plus the other thing is, wouldn't I have to learn Japanese in order to get some other job besides teaching? I can't speak japanese at all apart from some basic greetings!

[amdg]

The actual day to day hours might be a little worse, but you'll have the whole weekend off, unlike if you work for an eikaiwa. Trust me, it's a better option for you.

[ttjereth]

I'd say listen to amdg here, if you have the opportunity to transfer to Japan within your current company, you would be absolutely insane to come over as an English [s]monkey[/s] teacher

[AssKissinger]

Posts like this are silly. You don't even have these options yet. Apply for everything then tell us what your real options are.

BTW, do you think I should be a doctor or a lawyer?

[amdg]

BTW, do you think I should be a doctor or a lawyer?

Do both and then become a plaintiff's medical malpractice lawyer (like a friend of mine did). You'll clean up.



But seriously, it looks like he might have options, and yet still wants to choose what he sees as 'the easy way'. I understand where he's coming from, but want to warn him off what he sees as the easy way. It will just hurt him in the long run.

[kamome]

AMDG (what does that stand for btw), I would prefer also to go with either my existing company or some other company in my industry, but I always have the impression that work hours in finance would be far more greater then that of teaching. Would you say this is the case? And if it were, I guess it would mean less opportunity for me to explore.

Plus the other thing is, wouldn't I have to learn Japanese in order to get some other job besides teaching? I can't speak japanese at all apart from some basic greetings!

If you work in finance and can work for one of the foreign investment banks as a secondee or a direct hire, you can have a great life in JP. The hours may be better or worse than what you currently have but you'll have more money, perhaps some extra perks like bonus payments, overseas health insurance, tax preparation, subsidized housing costs, COLA, etc. However, going this route would require a commitment of a number of years as it would be essentially a career move rather than a jaunt to a foreign country to hang out and party.

[shazam]

Things never seem to be as easy as they seem..

I will definately consider all options.

But I still get the impression that if I took the more "secure" option, I would have less flexibility in terms of my time. Set hours monday to friday working till late? only having part of the weekend off? Sure I would get more money, but would I even have the chance to use it? Would I be so stressed out about work that I'd be too tired to do anything?

Both the finance and teaching options seem to suggest that I could be in for some long work days, but teaching seems the lessor of the two evils.

Or maybe I'm just seeing/hearing what I want to see/hear?

[kusai Jijii]

I always have the impression that work hours in finance would be far more greater then that of teaching. Would you say this is the case?

I would say that coming to Japan to teach English would be about one of the worst things you could do for your career path immaginable.

If you want to fuck your life up, slowly, then jump on the next plane with a TEFL textbook under your arm.

[Mulboyne]

AK is right that you can talk yourself in circles wondering what would be better but until you've got some firm offers, you can't really make any kind of decision.

Everyone else is also right that setting your sights only on teaching seems like a waste of whatever skills you have picked up so far. Certainly, some teachers have decent jobs where they can earn a living wage and still have free time but those positions aren't usually available to newcomers. There's no harm in trying to get one but the bottom has fallen out of the eikaiwa market so pay and conditions are not likely to be as sweet as you seem to be thinking. Remember, you have to factor in commuting and lesson preparation time to your basic hours. A lot of English teachers would give their right arm to have a job somewhere like a foreign finance company.

[shazam]

Thanks all for giving it to me straight, I appreciate it. Its best to know what I'm in for then to falsely sugar coat things.

Don't get me wrong though. My preference would be to go for a finance job and I do agree that teaching will not be of any benefit to my career.

But realistically, what are the chances of someone who can't speak japanese and who is not professionally qualified in anything to get a decent finance job. I've only got a degree (which isn't even finance, its accounting) and a few years work experience so its not like I'm in high demand.

I will apply for finance jobs first, theres no question about that. But I'm not going to get my hopes up high either and so if I fail to get a finance job. I will most likely end up applying for teaching jobs. Since I'm determined to go, I'll have to make do with what I can get. So if that is teaching, then I would obviously have to make a choice between JET or eikaiwa or just going cold turkey with a visa. But this is where I know least about and where I would need advice on.

Having said all that what particular areas of Finance are in demand in Japan atm or that isn't too hard to get into?

I've looked through my organisation and there doesn't seem to be much opportunities since my company is pre dominately an Australian company...

Again, thanks to all for your opinions, keep them coming.

[Visitor K]

teaching seems the lessor of the two evils.

seriously, you have already mentioned that you arent really interested in teaching and beyond that its not part of your career path.. these are things that you should think about. if you really dont want to be a teacher, dont do it.. as i said before, ive known plenty of people who got into teaching abroad for their own reasons (travel, study a language, learn about a culture) and all of them regretted it and went back home pretty quickly (if they could.. many people end up sticking out a contract for a job that they are absolutely unhappy in).
also, as i mentioned before, ASIANS HAVE A TOUGH TIME TEACHING ENGLISH IN ASIA.. students have complained to schools that they will not learn from an asian just because they expected a blond-haired blue-eyed foreigner.
if you want to come to japan to experience the culture with minimal work (which you seem to be fixated on), why not do it the conventional way and work at your normal job until you have saved up enough money to take what we call a vacation.

[kamome]

Since I'm determined to go, I'll have to make do with what I can get.

Why are you so determined to go? Where is this coming from? I find it strange when people who have no real connection to Japan suddenly develop an urge to drop everything they have to go and live there.

Seriously, you need to examine what it is that you hope to gain and what you stand to lose by making this decision. Depending on what you do, you could wind up with a big hole in your resume that will require explanation to future employers. Is a few months of partying really worth the potential costs to your career and future earnings?

[Visitor K]

Is a few months of partying really worth the potential costs to your career and future earnings?

well, when you put it that way!!

[Greji]

Is a few months of partying really worth the potential costs to your career and future earnings?

Don't pay any attention to Bird. He's in the legal field which means you will probably receive a bill from him for his answers to your post. You work while you party.

It's just simple multi-tasking. Lawyers are not familiar with that concept unless it involves a class action suit.

[AssKissinger]

I think moving to Japan in search of a good time is about the only legit reason left. Blowjobs! You can't put a fucking price on 'em and you can't buy a good one.

[Greji]

I think moving to Japan in search of a good time is about the only legit reason left. Blowjobs! You can't put a fucking price on 'em and you can't buy a good one.

You want I should send you Noriko's phone number?

[AssKissinger]

You want I should send you Noriko's phone number?

Is it true she practices on Goat Penis?

[Greji]

Is it true she practices on Goat Penis?

Probably did the whole group!

[ramchop]

Don't get me wrong though. My preference would be to go for a finance job and I do agree that teaching will not be of any benefit to my career.

But realistically, what are the chances of someone who can't speak japanese and who is not professionally qualified in anything to get a decent finance job. I've only got a degree (which isn't even finance, its accounting) and a few years work experience so its not like I'm in high demand.

I wouldn't get to hung up on the damage to your career thing. You're only planning to hop over for about a year. I know a number of JETs who have come back from that experience happy and gone straight into a good job. It's not like there's high unemployment in Oz right now, you'll be OK.

I dunno if the JET program discriminates against Asians like the language schools do. If you fail to get a posting in Japan you could always try Korea (my younger brother is there now after luckily missing out on a NOVA job). Koreans also prefer the blue eyed teachers though. Plus if you want to be near a city there's a very high chance you'd be put near Seoul (can't say I liked the place much but I was only there 2 days).

As for teaching vs other options, I've only ever done the other stuff (option 4+) and I'd recommend it - especially when you can swing getting paid in two countries at once.

[shazam]

Well the motivation comes from my desire to travel. But my desire to travel extends past just a months vacation. I'm not really looking for just a vacation. As I have mentioned before I want to experience life in another country, not just do the tourist thing. A vacation will not provide that to me.

Money is no issue either. I could just as easily quit my job and go to Japan and spend up on all my savings on an extended vacation, but that would be very irresponsible.

So why not work whilst travelling?

I'm in no way deliberately trying to throw away my life. And would teaching for a year really screw me that much? Showing on my resume that I've taught for a year, I don't think will cause employers to be less inclined to hiring me, right? And why do people assume that what I want to do in my free time is to "party", I've already done as much drinking and partying as I would like during my uni years. As I have mentioned previously and as I now feel like a broken record, I'm in it for the experience. To experience a different culture and a different life, and this does not necessarily entail "partying".

Again, as I have mentioned previously, I'm not saying I'm not going to try for any finance jobs, I've just got to be realistic about my prospects.

I'm getting the impression that people are trying to talk me out of doing the teaching option for reasons relating to damaging my career or jumping into something that will take up too much of my time i.e. bad teaching hours.

But is it really not possible to experience Japan properly and teach at the same time? This really is the question that I need an answer for now and I would really love to hear from those who have done JET or eikaiwa for a year.

Remember, I'm not excluding the option of looking for a finance job, I'm simply using this forum to research the ins and outs of teaching.

[ramchop]

Have you applied yet? If not, why not?

[AssKissinger]

But is it really not possible to experience Japan properly and teach at the same time?

It's totally fucking possible. Most jobs demand that you work all the time. Plus, with teaching you're interacting with people all the time. Besides, it's easy and a lot of times even fun, especially if you get a low key ALT job.

[kusai Jijii]

Blowjobs! ...you can't buy a good one.

With respect AK, I beg to differ. The best hummer I ever had (and without attempting to sound like Jack, I've had a few) was most definately from a working girl. It was a life changing experience. Fuck! That whore could suck a golf ball through a garden hose!.

[ttjereth]

Well the motivation comes from my desire to travel. But my desire to travel extends past just a months vacation. I'm not really looking for just a vacation. As I have mentioned before I want to experience life in another country, not just do the tourist thing. A vacation will not provide that to me.

Money is no issue either. I could just as easily quit my job and go to Japan and spend up on all my savings on an extended vacation, but that would be very irresponsible.

So why not work whilst travelling?

I'm in no way deliberately trying to throw away my life. And would teaching for a year really screw me that much? Showing on my resume that I've taught for a year, I don't think will cause employers to be less inclined to hiring me, right? And why do people assume that what I want to do in my free time is to "party", I've already done as much drinking and partying as I would like during my uni years. As I have mentioned previously and as I now feel like a broken record, I'm in it for the experience. To experience a different culture and a different life, and this does not necessarily entail "partying".

Again, as I have mentioned previously, I'm not saying I'm not going to try for any finance jobs, I've just got to be realistic about my prospects.

I'm getting the impression that people are trying to talk me out of doing the teaching option for reasons relating to damaging my career or jumping into something that will take up too much of my time i.e. bad teaching hours.

But is it really not possible to experience Japan properly and teach at the same time? This really is the question that I need an answer for now and I would really love to hear from those who have done JET or eikaiwa for a year.

Remember, I'm not excluding the option of looking for a finance job, I'm simply using this forum to research the ins and outs of teaching.

There are about 3 million other threads on here on the same or similar enough topic that you should also have a look through, but anyway.

Define "properly". You want to "experience" Japan doesn't really convey much meaning. If you just want to try living in Japan for a year you are going to experience Japan and Japanese culture in one way or the other and no one type of experience is going to be more "proper" or authentic than any other.

People assume you are talking about partying because you are really hung up on the whole free time/work time issue. You're going to be in Japan whether you are working or goofing off, and I'd say you'd get a better idea of what life is like here for the people who live here working than you will being able to travel all over the place with tons of free time (this is generally known as being a tourist). You're kind of giving off mixed messages you know?

Teaching English in Japan will certainly offer you opportunities to experience Japan/Japanese etc. but at present there are a lot of downsides if you are working for an English school.

1. the pay sucks. The average salary seems to be somewhere between 200,000-240,000 per month. In Tokyo half of that can easily go to rent alone (depending on where and in what style you want to live).

2. You will probably end up working less hours than in finance, but you will also be working different hours. Prime time for English schools is when their clients aren't working, which generally means nights and weekends, so even if you meet some Japanese folks you want to hang out with, you may find it impossible because of conflicting schedules and you may find that although you have more free time than if you were in finance (less money though), you either spend it alone or you end up in the situation of spending all your free time with other eikaiwa teachers because you all have the same/similar hours. Nothing like constantly hanging out with nothing but foreigners for the authentic experience

3. Different people have had different experiences and have different opinions, but I've found teaching english in Japan to be comparable to banging your head on a wall, the both have about the same affect and leave you feeling more or less the same at the end of the day. You might have the occasional good student/class/school and have a great time with them, but working for en English school means you teach who/what/where they tell you and that includes singing and dancing like a monkey for 13 year old who think you're an idiot, or playing conversation partner to the half crazy woman who swears she is destined to marry a foreigner.

4. There is not generally a high opinion of eikaiwa teachers here, or abroad recently (somewhere on here are articles linked from Australian newspapers during the whole Nova crash talking about how seedy the eikaiwa business world is). In Japan eikaiwa teachers are often not thought very highly of by other foreigners in other fields, or Japanese.

5. The people you work with will probably be much more used to having new foreign teachers pop in and out all the time and may not be terribly motivated to get to know you etc., especially if you make it known you are only here for a year or aren't certain of what you'll do in the future, making for at least a lackluster work environment where you are viewed less as a unique individual and more as the latest body filling a spot.

6. The best you can hope for after returning home after doing a year of English teaching is that it doesn't hurt your resume. It's generally not going to help it. The best thing is if the employer doesn't care or just chalks it up to sowing wild oats or some such and now it's out of the way. I can't imagine any situation where it would help you, but it's fairly easy to imagine a few where it could hurt you. Since you're currently in finance, try asking the HR people in your company or the boss what they think of it and how they would judge a year M.I.A. to teach English in Asia.

JET isn't bad, is safer and it pays better than most other positions, but as an ALT there are still downsides, I know plenty of ALTs who have suceeded after JET (whether here or back home) but I also know plenty who have not done so well, IF you are going to teach English no matter what, I'd say go for JET (just don't buy into the whole "rewarding life changing experience" program nonsense) but if you have other opportunities I'd say steer clear of the English industry as a whole.

[kusai Jijii]

Listen to tt.
thats the deal in a nutshell.
Well put grasshopper!

KJ.