border hassles in dreamweaver mx

[kotatsuneko]

i am trying to make a page with several layout tables , and want them to have border colours, but despite using the pdf manual i cannot seem to get the border colours to show up..

i have tried this with both layout tables and cells but no luck, i`m sure the solution must be really obvious but its driving me crazy and i really want to progress..

if some kind soul could help with this, i would really appreciate it!

cheers!

[cstaylor]

Dreamweaver???

Can you look at the HTML and tell me if they are tables? You can use CSS (cascading style sheets) to color the borders if you want.

I'd suggest getting a good book on CSS styles.

[kotatsuneko]

why the ???'s dreamweaver is a common web design tool isnt it? ^^

ta for the help offer, i`m trying to build a page from 0, and its layout tables i want to have borders, so set out the page, something like photokyo, but much simpler..

i want it to load as quickly as possible, and use the minimum of code/styles as it will be purely info/links orientated and i dont really have the time to learn anything fancy either.. i just want to make a site thats really easy to update and simple to look at..

ta,

[groovewonder]

you didn't forget to set border=1 did you?

DreamWeaver MX is a damn good program and it's easy to use. It's pretty easy to use CSS inside of MX though, so I back CS's idea that you should get a good book on CSS. Build your template first though. Make it look the way you want it too.

The only think I can think of is that you've still got border set to blank or zero. Otherwise, your border color should show up.

[cstaylor]

i dont really have the time to learn anything fancy either.. i just want to make a site thats really easy to update and simple to look at

You can't have both... if you want the site to work and look good, you'll need to spend the time either learning DreamWeaver very well or spend even more time learning how to handcraft HTML to do what you want.

[kotatsuneko]

"you didn't forget to set border=1 did you?"

you know, i did! didnt see that in the manual or maybe i sit too close to the screen..

that info has saved me so much time and hassle! i have been trying to figure this out for ages now its driven me crazy..

THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!! :P

as for css, well i am a slow learner, but may look into it at some point, though its unlikely, i just want a page that works..more for myself and people i know really...

really, truly, thank you so much for that incredibly usefull info... you are so kind, really!

happy happy jooooy!

[GomiGirl]

Well what is the url so that we can all check out your hard work!!

[kotatsuneko]

heh itll be awhile untill i get something up.. but will no doubt post the link when its ready..

heres a link to the site i am working on for my group: http://www.geocities.com/kotatsuneko_sapporo/

its wip at the mo.. as you can well see...^^

that sushicam page is really good! maybe there should be a pics site or something for the fgaijin get togethers?

[groovewonder]

you know, i did! didnt see that in the manual or maybe i sit too close to the screen.. that info has saved me so much time and hassle! i have been trying to figure this out for ages now its driven me crazy..

THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!! :P

No problem. I've worked with web design for a while now, and the border problem was a small one I used to face quite a bit when I was first getting started. You should also mess around with cellpadding and cellspacing. Cell padding will make your tables look much cleaner by setting inside margins, and cellspacing allows you to customize the borders of your table however you like.

I enjoy talking html, though I enjoy programming much more. But if you every need help with html, I'll be glad to help. Good luck!

[cstaylor]

kotatsuneko, border=1 is pretty ugly... you might want to look at the CSS styles for border, such as thin 1px (much nicer looking)

[kotatsuneko]

hey! thanks again for the advice and encouragement! it's really appreciated..

sorry to have hassled you over such a small thing, but i feel i can really begin to progress now! think i have to look into iframes also as i want to plug either a blogger/movable type /live journal thingy into the site i dont know which one is better for an idiot like me.... one of our guys in holland did this i think with fireworks, but i have heard that iframes may be easier, well thats a bit into the future..

i'll try it over the weekend, now i got my deck in the genkan ^^

[groovewonder]

I agree with cstaylor in that you should learn CSS. border=1 is quite ugly, but you can get away with it. But a single border around a table looks much better than many border lines interweaving in and out of a table. Depending on what you are doing, you can use either. Sometimes no border is spiffy too.

But CSS is the shit. You've got much more flexibility with it, and if you use CSS from the get-go, your site will be much easier to maintain in the longrun. If you want to change the look of all of your pages at one time rather than wasting hours on redesigns, use CSS.

You can get a good book anywhere. Tsutaya, book box, wherever. Pick one up for Y1500 and dick around with it. You'll find it easy to use. But get comfortable with dreamweaver first. Then memorize your html, and then jump into css. Things get really fun when you start throwing in a database and a scripting language. JavaScript never did anything good for me, but you might like it. But I do recommend PHP. Sorry though, I'm getting too far ahead. Good luck with your site. It will be fun and agravating at first but later on it will be easy as pie.

[Andocrates]

I learned html in notepad . . :sniff:

That was when men were men and web-pages looked like crap. Actually I cant make Japanese show up in Dreamweaver, that's my current problem. I do set the encoding but when I try to input from the ime bar I just get question marks. I haven't really looked much because that project is not till the fall.

[cstaylor]

I learned html in notepad . . :sniff:

That was when men were men and web-pages looked like crap. Actually I cant make Japanese show up in Dreamweaver, that's my current problem. I do set the encoding but when I try to input from the ime bar I just get question marks. I haven't really looked much because that project is not till the fall.

You need the Japanese version of Dreamweaver... but I would suggest Go Live anyways.

[groovewonder]

Why Go Live? What are the pros/cons vs. Dreamweaver?

[groovewonder]

That's what I thought. Macromedia makes good web programs. Adobe does graphics. How about "Homu-Peji-Biruda" (Home Page Builder) I can't believe how many Japanese people are using this trash program.

[cstaylor]

Go Live is just enough tool without getting in the way of creativity. I think they have a trial version

[groovewonder]

...without getting in the way of creativity.

Huh? Can you explain this to me?

[Taro Toporific]

...without getting in the way of creativity.

Huh? Can you explain this to me?

Ok. I have NOT used either GoLive or Dreamweaver since version 3, I've never seen Dreamweaver MX, and I just use BBEdit to text edit HTML but . . .

My general impression was that Dreamweaver was more feature-laden than GoLive. I noticed it was faster to get my assistants up to speed in GoLive since they 'felt' the learning curve was easier (and they liked the localization of Japanese interface better).

However, now I've set up an XML/HTML template for anything in the work flow. The learning curve of GoLive, Dreamweaver, etc. is really of no concern for my present job.

Bottom Line: Try the demo of each and see which suits you.

[GomiGirl]

I gave up on Go Live 5 for Mac 9.1 as it ws so unstable it used crash after 5 mintues of use. I nearly picked up my monitor and threw it out of the window in frustration... I have never bothered with Go Live 6 for OS X.



I do all of my editing by hand now with BBedit.. all the colours make it really easy to see where you are at..

[gomichild]

I'm a Dreamweaver girl and I've never had any problems using it for either English or Japanese sites. The only thing is to make a complicated style sheet you have to do a lot of it seprarately by hand first - though you can edit it afterwards thru DW.

[cstaylor]

Well, the last Dreamweaver I used was version 4... so maybe it's improved since then... but I was less than impressed at the time.

What I mean by "not getting in the way" is that in Go Live I can quickly drop to source view and make the changes I want, and the damn editor doesn't overwrite them. Maybe the newer versions of Dreamweaver are less annoying.

[GomiGirl]

I do all of my editing by hand now with BBedit.. all the colours make it really easy to see where you are at..

I must add that gomichild has been very helpful to me personally when I forget where all of my <td> and <tr>'s are.. or when they are in the wrong spot.

Love your work, honey..

[groovewonder]

T new dreamweaver MX has a much better code view than in the past. I highly recommend it. I'm mainly a php programmer, and though I do spend a good amount of time perfecting my css, I spend most of my time on the php and sql and spend a bit less on the html. I could just use notepad if I really wanted to, but for fast work, Dreamweaver does the trick, especially when your dealing with hundreds or thousands of pages. It's got some seriously powerful functions. But there's nothing better than hand-drawing your pages first, figuring out the css, and then coding by hand. On big projects, that's what I do. But on the little things (updates, edits) dreamweaver does a hell of a job.

They have gotton much better since 4. I started on 3 I think. Might have even used 2 a few times. 4 wasn't bad, but the new interface on MX makes everything so much easier. I'll have to dick around with GoLive sometime.

Do you guys use fireworks or just stick to photoshop/illustrator? I've never learned fireworks, but I hear it has a few goodies.

[Taro Toporific]

Do you guys use fireworks or just stick to photoshop/illustrator? I've never learned fireworks, but I hear it has a few goodies.

Overuse of Fireworks by braindead Japanese wannabes is the bane of my life. Given a choice, ALL the Japanese I meet want to use 100k worth of Fireworks to something that could be done well in 12k of CSS/HTML. Arrrrrrrrrrg! Yes, many corporate Japanese use Fireworks to create entire webpages from scratch. It's a nice little tool that's over-used and abused.

[groovewonder]

At least it's more advanced than Home Page Builder.
Every single elementary school I help teach English at has some teacher who has made a website in H.P.B. It's as if the Kyoinku Inkai is advising the schools to buy this shitty software.

I've never used Fireworks. I've never had a need. Just wondering why others do?

As a general rule of thumb, I use Macromedia products for the web and Adobe products for the graphics and pictures. Both are strong at what they do.

But I ask questions just to have my eyes opened. I have been wrong in the past, and if I am wrong for thinking that Fireworks is more or less shit, than I'd like to know.

A friend of mine is building his entire website in fireworks. That's why I ask. He's an excellent illustrator (using illustrator ), so my guess is that Adobe is just very convenient and familiar for him. Who knows.

[Taro Toporific]

But I ask questions just to have my eyes opened. I have been wrong in the past, and if I am wrong for thinking that Fireworks is more or less shit.. Who knows.

"Who knows" is right.
Fireworks is great for prototyping something for a potential customer. However, it's HELL to maintain. I view it as quick and dirty tool like Frontpage that produces natto ramen code that both stinks and is impossible to untangle.

[groovewonder]

"Who knows" is right. Fireworks is great for prototyping something for a potential customer. However, it's HELL to maintain. I view it as quick and dirty tool like Frontpage that produces natto ramen code that both stinks and is impossible to untangle.

Cool. Thanks for the heads up. But how is it any quicker than Dreamweaver? Is it easier to use? Learning curve quicker? Either way, just wondering. I'll probably never switch to it. Just wanted to know.

[Andocrates]

I always avoid the udgrade hell so I'm still using dreamweaver 2 (I did upgrade from 1) But fireworks is mostly a graphics thing isn't it? I just want to be able to add japanese to web-pages in Dreamweaver, But it seems impossible with dreamweaver 2

[groovewonder]

Why even use DreamWeaver if you're just gonna use version 2. Might as well just use notepad if you're gonna go back that far and just wanna do translations.... I guess 2 doesn't have problems with html though, but can it handle shtml or css? I can't remember much about ver.2 but I do remember that it wouldn't recognize php and kept asking me what program I'd like to use to open php pages.