F*cked Nihonjin - the madness of family registers

[sublight]

Were these things invented by Kafka?

Mainichi: Gov't turns back on pregnant woman with no family register records due to divorce law

A 27-year-old woman who was left with no family register records because her birth registration was refused in connection with a law on children born within 300 days of a divorce is pregnant and expecting a child in June, it has been learned.

By law, birth registrations must list the mother's permanent domicile. Authorities in Hyogo Prefecture, where the woman lives, say that without the woman's family register records, registration of her child's birth would not be possible.

As a result, it is likely the woman's child will also be left without family register records, preventing the child from receiving various government services. It is the first reported case in which a person without family register records is due to give birth.

The 27-year-old woman's mother, who is in her 50s, divorced her former husband due to violence and other reasons. Seventy-three days afterwards, she gave birth to her daughter in a relationship with her new husband. However, she was unable to register her child as the daughter of her new husband due to a law stating that children born within 300 days of a divorce are regarded as the offspring of the former husband.

Due to the difficulty of having the legal stipulations overturned and because she didn't want her former husband to know where she lived, it was difficult for her to file a lawsuit involving her former husband to have her new husband recognized as the father. Her daughter was left without family register records as a result, and was only able to attend elementary school for four years. She was also unable to receive medical services and could not vote.

In the summer of last year, the 27-year-old woman wed her husband in a ceremony, but was unable to register the marriage because she had no family register records. It emerged last autumn that she was pregnant and was due to give birth in mid-June.

Worried about the future of her child, the woman visited local authorities this month and discussed her situation, but she was told that the birth could not be registered without her family register records.

On the bright side, I don't think she's allowed to die, either.

[maraboutslim]

So... her mom got pregnant from one guy (she says) even though still married to another guy... And the law is a difficulty because it assumes that good citizens wouldn't be having babies with people they weren't married to and thus considers the father to be the person to which the woman was married at the time of conception, right?

[Mulboyne]

So... her mom got pregnant from one guy (she says) even though still married to another guy... And the law is a difficulty because it assumes that good citizens wouldn't be having babies with people they weren't married to and thus considers the father to be the person to which the woman was married at the time of conception, right?

More on that in this thread.

[sublight]

The real insanity is the government's absolute refusal to acknowledge the woman even exists because she doesn't have a family register.

Few things are scarier than a government that doesn't even have a means of recognizing that something's gone wrong.

[Greji]

The real insanity is the government's absolute refusal to acknowledge the woman even exists because she doesn't have a family register.

Few things are scarier than a government that doesn't even have a means of recognizing that something's gone wrong.

They finally got around to changing the law as shown in the previous thread, but like so many other cases, J-law seldom address contingencies such as grandfathering cases that are directly affected by new laws, or policy.

[halfnip]

The real insanity is the government's absolute refusal to acknowledge the woman even exists because she doesn't have a family register.

Few things are scarier than a government that doesn't even have a means of recognizing that something's gone wrong.

This really sums up the whole "TIJ" bit, eh?

A country that is supposedly once of the most technically advanced and is supposedly a forefront for new ideas, etc. yet they are still prehistoric in basic procedures like this. Birth, marriages, banks, etc.

[james]

i think i remember watching on tv about this poor woman. she can't leave the country (legally) either because she can't get a passport.

i don't know how she deals with it, i think i'd have gone postal and killed someone by now. maybe that would get noticed by the right people.

it just boggles my mind that this can't be fixed, even if tij.

the whole family register system itself is a glaring anachronism.

[klimmer]

I wonder if she has to pay taxes.

[Greji]

I wonder if she has to pay taxes.

That's a good point!

[james]

I wonder if she has to pay taxes.

for that matter, i wonder if she can even work.

[ttjereth]

So... her mom got pregnant from one guy (she says) even though still married to another guy... And the law is a difficulty because it assumes that good citizens wouldn't be having babies with people they weren't married to and thus considers the father to be the person to which the woman was married at the time of conception, right?

Not while still married. It can be within 300 days of the divorce. She could have been divorced for months and they still considered it the prior husband's.

[FG Lurker]

i think i'd have gone postal and killed someone by now. maybe that would get noticed by the right people.

Yeah, but they'd probably be scratching their heads and saying that she can't be put in prison because she technically "doesn't exist".

[maraboutslim]

So... her mom got pregnant from one guy (she says) even though still married to another guy... And the law is a difficulty because it assumes that good citizens wouldn't be having babies with people they weren't married to and thus considers the father to be the person to which the woman was married at the time of conception, right?

Not while still married. It can be within 300 days of the divorce. She could have been divorced for months and they still considered it the prior husband's.

Well, the law doesn't care when the baby was born to determine its father, they are going off when it would have been conceived and that would have been 300 days prior - when the couple was still married.

[omae mona]

Well, the law doesn't care when the baby was born to determine its father, they are going off when it would have been conceived and that would have been 300 days prior - when the couple was still married.

In the case of this particular woman, yes, obviously conception took place while she was still married to the previous guy. That doesn't make the law reasonable, though.

Even if you agree with the premise that the spouse at the time of conception should be the legal father, then "300 days" is the wrong rule. There are plenty of ways conception can take place after the divorce, but the child will still belong to the former husband. Average pregnancy is 266 days, not 300 days. So even if a woman conceives a month after her divorce is finalized, the child will probaby be recognized as belonging to the previous husband. Imagine she conceives 3 months after the divorce but the child is born 2 months premature. The child will also be attributed to the previous husband in this case.

Basically, if a woman divorces & immediately remarries, and she wants to be sure all children belong to her new husband (even if born premature), then she better wait 4 months into the new marriage before she gets pregnant. This is ridiculous.

Especially in light of health minister Yanagisawa's concerns about the efficiency of "baby-making machines"
last year, I don't understand why the government is chopping off months of productivity with this policy

[Midwinter]

Good job, Japan!

[Dragonette]

This really sums up the whole "TIJ" bit, eh?
A country that is supposedly once of the most technically advanced and is supposedly a forefront for new ideas, etc. yet they are still prehistoric in basic procedures like this. Birth, marriages, banks, etc.

Right On!
In fuedal days that law may have been the best they could come up with but now that they have paternity tests, it's ridiculous! - And it's not some bureaucrat's place to pass moral judgment on mama; they weren't there when the deed went down, or knew what lead up to it, either.

[xenomorph42]

In the case of this particular woman, yes, obviously conception took place while she was still married to the previous guy. That doesn't make the law reasonable, though.

Even if you agree with the premise that the spouse at the time of conception should be the legal father, then "300 days" is the wrong rule. There are plenty of ways conception can take place after the divorce, but the child will still belong to the former husband. Average pregnancy is 266 days, not 300 days. So even if a woman conceives a month after her divorce is finalized, the child will probaby be recognized as belonging to the previous husband. Imagine she conceives 3 months after the divorce but the child is born 2 months premature. The child will also be attributed to the previous husband in this case.

Basically, if a woman divorces & immediately remarries, and she wants to be sure all children belong to her new husband (even if born premature), then she better wait 4 months into the new marriage before she gets pregnant. This is ridiculous.

Especially in light of health minister Yanagisawa's concerns about the efficiency of "baby-making machines"
last year, I don't understand why the government is chopping off months of productivity with this policy

This goes way beyond being pathetic. That this kind of thing can happen in 2008 in in an modern society(supposedly)is utterly amazing!

[maraboutslim]

It's funny that you guys are seeing this as somehow discriminatory towards women instead of the men!

FWIW, pregnancy in Japan is considered "10 months" (not 9), and I suspect that is where the 300 days comes from.

[Greji]

This goes way beyond being pathetic. That this kind of thing can happen in 2008 in in an modern society(supposedly)is utterly amazing!

That's going to be all right. Japan is now on the UN human rights committee!! Check that! They've just been un-elected.

".....Japan reelected member of U.N. Human Rights Council

NEW YORK, May 21 (Kyodo) - The U.N. General Assembly on Wednesday reelected Japan as a member of the Geneva-based U.N. Human Rights Council...."

[Mulboyne]

...FWIW, pregnancy in Japan is considered "10 months" (not 9), and I suspect that is where the 300 days comes from.

In the other thread, Mike Oxlong pointed out that 300 days is also used in the US, albeit differently.

...Most states have laws that require an unmarried couple to fill out an Acknowledgment of Paternity (AOP) form to legally establish who the father is. If the couple is unmarried and the mother has not been married in the last 300 days, then no father will be listed on the birth certificate until this legally binding form is filled out. The AOP is sent to the states Bureau of Vital statistics, is recorded, and the father listed becomes the legal father...

It's worth pointing out that the original article says that officials believe this is the first instance they have dealt with of a woman with no family register being pregnant. I understand Korea has a similar family register system so it would be interesting to know how they deal with this kind of case.

[Mulboyne]

Asahi: Infant registered in unprecedented move

A 2-week-old infant of a "nonexistent" woman was registered after his parents' marriage was legally recognized. But his mother still cannot be registered because of a century-old stipulation in the Civil Law described as outdated and absurd. Activist groups helping such families welcomed the unprecedented decision Wednesday by a municipality in Hyogo Prefecture to register the baby of an unregistered mother. They said it is a "giant step forward" for such unregistered children. It is the first time a "second-generation" non-registry holder has been granted entry into a family registry. But they noted that the 27-year-old mother herself has yet to be listed in a family register, and they are calling for further measures to rectify the situation... Yasuko Yamada, a lawyer based in Hyogo Prefecture who specializes in the issue, said the new measure will still not help unregistered children of single mothers. "The non-registry holder problem is a form of bullying by the law," she said...more...

[maraboutslim]

Though her mother didn't want to do so 27 years ago, this woman could be registered to the family of the man her mother was married to at the time she was sleeping around and impregnated by another man, no? Sure, there may be no biological connection, but that describes many "familes".

[sublight]

A hint of sanity creeping through?

Justice Ministry to create new type of family register for kids without records

The Ministry of Justice has informed an Osaka woman without family register records that it will create a new type of family register for her children, listing each child as the head person on the register, it has been learned.

...

According to Japan's Family Association for Children Without Family Registers, the Ministry of Justice has also allowed a 27-year-old Hyogo Prefecture woman's son to be listed on the family register of her spouse.

It seems that although woman in the first article (the 27-year-old in Hyogo) managed to get her son recognized, she herself is still PNG.