'Foreigners must be humble, patient in Japan'

[Taro Toporific]

I puked hot coffee out my nose when I read this kingyo-no-fun. Sheeeee-it. Foreign firms need to kick butt and randomly take the J-slackers in the street every hour and shoot them (like me).

Blah, blah, blah, ...

'Foreign firms must be humble, patient in Japan'
Daily Yomiuri Jun 10 2003 11:40PM GMT

[cstaylor]

No, this is foreign firms telling the Japanese what they want to hear... which is advertising 101.

[Pizzicatoblue]

Oh, boy...

[GargoyleTS]

The title says "Be humble and patient", as does the first paragraph.

The rest of the article says to have a horrid amount of diversity and loads of advertising (in the J-style seems to be implied).

Aren't these kinda at odds with each other? Humble and patient would be bad all around for a company trying to establish itself ANYWHERE. At best they should have kept to pointing out the extreme diversity and fickleness of Japanese tastes thus creating a need both for more products and advertising than a company would normally invest in a new market.

Not to mention the needs to have the "Actor of the Day" pushing your products in the ads....

[Taro Toporific]

[quote="cstaylor"]No, this is foreign firms telling the Japanese what they want to hear... which is advertising 101. ]


No wait... it's not Advertising 101. It's really the CIA's only successful subterfuge to destroy Japanese industry by convincing that the status quo is the ideal path.

[Big Booger]

What firms are crazy enough to invest in Japan these days?
That is what they should be telling foreign firms.. stay the hell away because the Titanihon Maru is going down baby!

[Taro Toporific]

What firms are crazy enough to invest in Japan these days?
That is what they should be telling foreign firms.. stay the hell away because the Titanihon Maru is going down baby!

I talked with some very drunk the Wally Mart guys last weekend, and they said they were buying Seiyu's PROPERTY at 10 cents on the dollar and then hoping SARS would kill off the 99% of the staff.

[GomiGirl]

What firms are crazy enough to invest in Japan these days?
That is what they should be telling foreign firms.. stay the hell away because the Titanihon Maru is going down baby!

Not really. Whenever the economy is down, it is the ideal time for foreign firms to sneak on in, set up and get established before the economy strengthens again and Japanese companies get their balls back.

Also the costs and barriers to enter are reduced - eg office space rental is cheaper, wages are lower and it is possible to hire anybody you want. Governments tend to be more helpful with tax breaks and the like to encourage foreign money and companies that need staff.

I know quite a few foreign companies that are sneaking in at the moment..

[Gestalt]

Not really. Whenever the economy is down, it is the ideal time for foreign firms to sneak on in, set up and get established before the economy strengthens again and Japanese companies get their balls back.

'Strengthen' may be a pretty relative term. I'm no economist, but friends who are, and alot of what you read in the media seems to suggest that the fundamentals in Japan are not looking good. ie. _big_ government debt, banking system problems, rising unemployment, deflation etc. etc. All of these wouldn't be so bad if Japan wasn't also facing a shrinking population - that's the factor which will really take Japan into unknown territory. And that means that all the stuff in that article can go out the window because it means Japanese companies really need to focus on exports and pleasing consumers in other countries, because there will be less and less in Japan

[GomiGirl]

It is all an unknown quantity as economics is really an artifical "science" (I have a major in micro-economic theory)

But I will say that there are always alot of people talking a heap of crap about the economy whichever country you are in and there are always editors that will print it.

One of my favourite quotes was from a seminar and I can't remember the guy who said it..

"The media have predicted 15 of the last 2 recessions."

I think there is always a heap of panic which is perpetuated by the media.... go out onto the streets of Tokyo on a Sunday - people talk all doom and gloom but they are still out shopping..

I read newspapers and watch the news/current affairs so I am as guilty as the next person when it comes to reading what the editors dish out.. however, it is best just to take it all with a healthy scepticism and remember that when it comes to the economy, most people (even economists) don't have a clue how to predict what will happen but they all have 20/20 hindsight.

[Gestalt]

"The media have predicted 15 of the last 2 recessions."

I like it! think reading the Nikkei is just depressing me.. I need to
switch to the Sankei Sports for my morning paper.

[Captain Japan]

I think there is always a heap of panic which is perpetuated by the media.... go out onto the streets of Tokyo on a Sunday - people talk all doom and gloom but they are still out shopping..

I read newspapers and watch the news/current affairs so I am as guilty as the next person when it comes to reading what the editors dish out.. however, it is best just to take it all with a healthy scepticism and remember that when it comes to the economy, most people (even economists) don't have a clue how to predict what will happen but they all have 20/20 hindsight.

I've never been able to find anyone who would deny things are fine now, because they are. Hell, an OL just showed me a $9,000 watch her daddy bought her. Shopping is Japan's national sport, but denial is the national condition. The problem instead has always been in looking a few years down the road. And to me, that just seems hopeless.

Too many of these companies which aren't exposed to international forces are just so absolutely toast it is amazing. The only thing holding them together is government charity and protection. Mine is a perfect example. OLs serving tea make more money than the new salarymen. Amakudari guys roam free doing absolutely nothing. Sensible management is nonexistant. Budgets get pissed away so that the bucho who botched up a project can save face. And there's thousands of other companies repeating the same thing.

Year after year people keep saying that this is going to turn around simply because Japan "is due." But I just don't see a good reason for it. Does these economists set foot in Japanese companies and see the depth of the rot? Where is this growth going to come from? I just don't buy it. It isn't magic.

I think the best part of this article is the name of the organization: Congress on Delighting Customers in Japan for Sustainable Profitable Growth.

That is poetry.

Captain

[Taro Toporific]

I think the best part of this article is the name of the organization: Congress on Delighting Customers in Japan for Sustainable Profitable Growth.

That is poetry.

It's a perfect example why Japanese should directly translated.

[GomiGirl]

Year after year people keep saying that this is going to turn around simply because Japan "is due." But I just don't see a good reason for it. Does these economists set foot in Japanese companies and see the depth of the rot? Where is this growth going to come from? I just don't buy it. It isn't magic.

Growth will come from multinationals implimenting "new economy" (ie productivity gains) practices from outside Japan and foreign companies coming in with their culture of "lean and mean".

One thing that Japan Inc is good at is taking a good idea and making it work here. This will take time, but the results can already be seen and a number of companies are turned it around for themselves. The old Zaibatsu style companies will change eventually but they will be the last.

[GargoyleTS]

Great discussion!

Firstly: YEAH!! My position as a Wal-Mart greeter is forever denied!! (this is actually good) BUT, will the Wally world tradition of using older people and the mentally disadvantaged as greeters fly in Japan?

Secondly: Do you think big chains like Wally and Costco etc are going to increase the "freeting" phnomenon? They do tend to be high turn-over even at the managerial level.

Finally: Has anyone been to the huge indoor ski-slope SSAWS? I just saw a show on it and it looks AWESOME!

[Taro Toporific]

Finally: Has anyone been to the huge indoor ski-slope SSAWS? I just saw a show on it and it looks AWESOME!

Reference the Dead Parrot" sketch...

This SSAWS is no more!

It has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you
hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies!
'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig!
'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!!
THIS IS AN EX-SSAWS!!

[cstaylor]

If you are talking about the one in Chiba, it closed last year AFAIK. Great fun when it was open.

[Neo-Rio]

Finally: Has anyone been to the huge indoor ski-slope SSAWS? I just saw a show on it and it looks AWESOME!

From what I hear, that monstrosity is broke too.

"Delighting customers in Japan" hey? Just make it cute and it will sell. Heck, doesn't have to DO anything.... just has to make you feel good.

[cstaylor]

Well, I enjoyed skiing for real in Niigata far more than I did in Chiba... and it's not much more expensive (especially if you're going for more than a single day)

[American Oyaji]

Appi!!!

I will always have a special place in my heart for Appi.

It was the place I REALLY learned to ski. Not my first time but where I learned (it was my second time).

One time I was at the top of the mountain and it started snowing HARD. And visiibility was about 20 feet. Now, That aint much when sliding on snow at 50mph! And it was getting cold. I had been warm all day and suddenly the tips of my fingers were freezing and I couldnt see ANYTHING or ANYBODY. Fortunately, I have a near photographic memory. My buddies who had laughed at me all day about how long it took me to get down the moutain the first time from the Gondola (about 1hour) were amazed when I came back down in 30 minutes including gondola time.

I didn't fall once and was bent down like a downhill pro.

It's called adrenaline. I must have super adrenaline or something. Because thats how I learned how to swim.

But that's another story.

[GargoyleTS]

[quote="cstaylor"]If you are talking about the one in Chiba, it closed last year AFAIK. Great fun when it was open. ]

That sux! I just saw that show like 2 weeks ago on Discovery Science.

[Captain Japan]

Growth will come from multinationals implimenting "new economy" (ie productivity gains) practices from outside Japan and foreign companies coming in with their culture of "lean and mean".

Getting people in Japan to take foreigners seriously is about as simple as growing rice on the moon. The words you put in quotes should be in quotes because they are just buzz words that make people feel good when they get implemented with about 1/50th of the impact that they should be. Who is going to make things "lean and mean" at a satisfactory level? Talk isn't cheap in Japan. Talk is substantial]One thing that Japan Inc is good at is taking a good idea and making it work here. This will take time, but the results can already be seen and a number of companies are turned it around for themselves. The old Zaibatsu style companies will change eventually but they will be the last.[/quote]

I'm sure you could indeed name a few examples. But I seriously doubt they would amount to a hill of beans in the shadow of the rot that strangles this country. While Japan takes this "time" what is India, China, and even the US going to be doing?

This just ain't the real world - yet. In the real world time is money. In Japan, time is for wasting and money is for hostess tabs.

I mean, check out yesterday's Asahi:

Maeda to Prop up Toyo Construction
Maeda Corp., a Japanese civil engineering company said it would participate in a bailout of Toyo Construction Co., by investing 3 billion yen in the struggling builder.

This isn't an example of a country moving forward. This is circling the wagons and ensuring that everyone gets on the ship as it sinks.

Captain

[Neo-Rio]

[quote="Captain Japan"]Getting people in Japan to take foreigners seriously is about as simple as growing rice on the moon. The words you put in quotes should be in quotes because they are just buzz words that make people feel good when they get implemented with about 1/50th of the impact that they should be. Who is going to make things "lean and mean" at a satisfactory level? Talk isn't cheap in Japan. Talk is substantial]

In a country where English has no use other than being flounted as a mark of status, and where students learn English to for no other reason but to achieve this status (even if they hate English and foreigners and never want to learn it at all).... I'm not surprised.

I always like these stories from the "front line" though.....

[lone Moogle]

She's lucky for being in that country......if she did that in the states or any other country for that matter the police would have nailed her faced to the ground and than pepper sprayed her stupid dumb ass.
Not only that any other country would not have let here go just like that.

[Jack]

The Japanese economy is doing much better than people make it out to be. I travel a lot and the only bustling places I see are Tokyo and Osaka. It's not for nothing that LV just opened its largest store in the world on Omotesando recently. Sales down everywhere around the world but up 20% in Japan.

It's easy to read the western newspapers and be tricked in believing that the Japanese economy is in the tank, for if it was, the yen would not be at 118 to the dollar right now. There is no room to lower interest rates any more in Japan and even less hope of raising them. Despite this, the yen is ha nging in there. Go figure. My explanation about this is that you have to look at the Japanese economy with a Japanese mindset, not a western mindset.

Anyway, from all the numbers that I saw and my interpretation of same, the Japanese economy is doing better than every G8 country except the US.

[cstaylor]

As an export economy, a strong yen is not an indicator of future health.

[kamome]

In the real world time is money. In Japan, time is for wasting and money is for hostess tabs.

Captain

Finally, another kindred spirit whose life in a Japanese company turned him as cynical about Japan as I am. I totally agree with the Captain--the Japanese are too arrogant (or lazy, haven't figured out if it's one or both) to acknowledge there is something wrong and work to fix it. And the culture is built to prevent anyone from standing up like Michael Moore and saying, "Hold on! What the f--- are we doing?".

[Taro Toporific]

Finally, another kindred spirit...the Japanese are
[[1.]] too arrogant (or
[[2.]] lazy, haven't figured out if it's one or both) to acknowledge there is something wrong and work to fix it.

3. TOO CLUELESS.

So...I fit right in.

[kamome]

3. TOO CLUELESS.

Yes, I forgot about that. But is their cluelessness borne of laziness or arrogance? Which came first, the cluelessness or the laziness?

[Taro Toporific]

3. TOO CLUELESS.

Yes, I forgot about that. But is their cluelessness borne of laziness or arrogance? Which came first, the cluelessness or the laziness?

Baka ni tsukeru kusuri wa nai.
There's no medicine for stupid.

Cluelessness is the Nipon national norm. Hell, Japanese think that katakana "NAIVE" is a compliment.