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  • fuckedgaijin ‹ General ‹ Tokyo Tech

iPhone killer?

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iPhone killer?

Postby Mike Oxlong » Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:08 am

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The first cell phone running Google Inc.'s mobile software looks something like Apple Inc.'s iPhone and has a large touch screen, but it also packs a trackball, a slide-out keyboard and easy access to Google's e-mail and mapping programs.
Google made its debut as a cell phone software provider Tuesday at an event where wireless carrier T-Mobile said it will begin selling the G1 phone for $179 with a two-year contract. The device hits U.S. stores Oct. 22 and heads to Britain in November and other European countries early next year.

The phone will be sold in T-Mobile stores only in the U.S. cities where the company has rolled out its faster, third-generation wireless data network. By launch, that will be 21 cities, including New York, Los Angeles, Houston and Miami.

In other areas, people will be able to buy the phone from T-Mobile's Web site. The phone does work on T-Mobile's slower data network, but it's optimized for the faster networks. It can also connect at Wi-Fi hotspots.

The data plan for the phone will cost $25 per month on top of the calling service, at the low end of the range for data plans at U.S. wireless carriers. And at $179, the G1 is $20 less than the least expensive iPhone in the U.S.


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http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D93CJAN81&show_article=1
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Postby FG Lurker » Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:46 am

One thing it apparently does WAY better than the iPhone is multitask. The iPhone really SUCKS at doing more than one thing at once (even two very mundane things) and apparently Android is quite smooth.

As it is an open platform that pretty much any phone manufacturer can adopt and use I look forward to seeing how it develops. There should be a good selection of handsets out there by the time I replace the iPhone. :)
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Postby Charles » Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:09 am

The data plan for the phone will cost $25 per month on top of the calling service, at the low end of the range for data plans at U.S. wireless carriers.

No. It's right in the middle. The old iPhone EDGE plan is $20, the new 3G plan is $30.
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Postby Taro Toporific » Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:37 am

FG Lurker wrote:One thing it apparently does WAY better than the iPhone is multitask.... I look forward to seeing how it develops...
I too am VERY interested to see how G1 phone works out internationally...both in terms of roaming charges (I only spend 30 days a year in the US) and the carrier who picks up the G1 phone in Japan.

My brainfart questions are....
  • Does the G1 phone battery last more than a couple of hours and can a spare be inserted?
  • Is the G1 keyboard equal the Blackberry's usability? (I hate the iPhone's no-tactual-feedback touchscreen keyboard.)
  • How "open" is its open platform? Could skype be utilized with the G1?
  • Does the G1 really have its SIM card slot locked like the iPhone?
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Postby wuchan » Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:18 pm

I like the keyboard, the one on the iphone is almost un-useable. The trackball is cool too, when I used the iphone the scrolling worked but sometimes I clicked on a link when trying to scroll.
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Postby Charles » Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:41 pm

Taro Toporific wrote:I too am VERY interested to see how G1 phone works out internationally...both in terms of roaming charges (I only spend 30 days a year in the US) and the carrier who picks up the G1 phone in Japan.

My brainfart questions are....
  • Does the G1 phone battery last more than a couple of hours and can a spare be inserted?
  • Is the G1 keyboard equal the Blackberry's usability? (I hate the iPhone's no-tactual-feedback touchscreen keyboard.)
  • How "open" is its open platform? Could skype be utilized with the G1?
  • Does the G1 really have its SIM card slot locked like the iPhone?

A few notes:
The iPhone multitasks just fine. The only limit is on 1st Gen iPhones, which cannot use EDGE for simultaneously accessing the net while a phone call is in progress.
The "lack of tactile feedback" on the iPhone is a feature, not a bug. It's faster than any button keyboard. It takes some getting used to, but it's way faster. I'll race any crackberry user and win, they see me tapping away on mine and just freak out at how fast I type.
The SIM card slot on the iPhone is not physically locked. Apple even includes a high tech SIM extraction tool with replacement phones. People have reported the iPhone works with pay-as-you-go SIM cards, the AT&T pay-as-you-go SIMs even work without hacking. The lock you refer to is a software lock to one carrier, and can be overridden with a "jailbreak" app.
No, you can't use VOIP on either of these phones. The carriers won't allow it. Skype said they have an iPhone prototype ready. That was months ago. If it would have happened, it would have happened by now. Maybe you can get it on the Linux/Android phone. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Postby IkemenTommy » Wed Sep 24, 2008 2:10 pm

Taro Toporific wrote:[*]Does the G1 phone battery last more than a couple of hours and can a spare be inserted?
[*]Is the G1 keyboard equal the Blackberry's usability? (I hate the iPhone's no-tactual-feedback touchscreen keyboard.)
[*]How "open" is its open platform? Could skype be utilized with the G1?
[*]Does the G1 really have its SIM card slot locked like the iPhone?
[/LIST]

You should also add...
1. Does it have emoji support? That was one complaint many people had with the 3G iPhone.
2. Have the IC feature? (I doubt it) :confused:
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Postby Mike Oxlong » Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:05 pm

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Android is a restrictive piece of garbage!

Postby alicia454 » Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:54 pm

Consider the iPhone, which despite being so crippled, a developer can still create and compile some native application for it, and install it via iTunes store or jailbreak.

Google has decided TO BAN ALL NATIVE "BINARY" USER APPLICATIONS for its Android phones, and only allow Java!
http://code.google.com/android/kb/general.html
Q: Can I write code for Android using C/C++?
A: Android only supports applications written using the Java programming language at this time.

As a embedded crypto developer, this means that my applications, which deal with complex CPU intensive cryptography that are not fully supported by any Java libraries and are too slow to run through any JVM or JIT, will never run on Android, even though I can port them to the iPhone, Windows Mobile, PalmOS, etc.

Keep in mind that for Android, the native kernel and core OS applications are binaries compiled from C/C++, so why not allow user native applications from C/C++ as well? Because Google caved in to the wireless carriers demands for user apps restrictions, by forcing all user apps to run in a restrictive JVM sandbox! In fact, the JVM in Android is different than the official SUN JVM in its JRE which has much more features.

Yes, the Android source code is available, and in theory one can create a modified OS that allows user native applications. But most likely each phone manufacturer will have in their Android firmware at least one key device driver, kernel module, or other critical component that was created from a proprietary closed source that cannot be publicly recreated.

But even if the entire firmware could be recreated or cracked to allow user native apps, then each user would still be required to install a new firmware or patch (Jail-Break) their firmware before user native apps would work.

The likely percentage of open Android phones would be some trivial amount, with so few if any potential customers, so as a developer it makes no sense to even bother with the Android platform.
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Postby GomiGirl » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:59 am

Java - holy fuck!! They really are not interested in taking on the iPhone. No point porting our iPhone apps to this platform.

Alicia - what sort of stuff do you develop? Care to share?

I'll show you mine if you show me yours!! ;)
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Postby alicia454 » Thu Sep 25, 2008 4:34 am

[quote="GomiGirl"]Alicia - what sort of stuff do you develop? Care to share?
I'll show you mine if you show me yours!! ]
For the last year or so most of my work has been in the embedded system on chip space. In our small office in Akihabara we design all of the hardware including the boards (using CAD) and chips (in VHDL and tested using FPGA's), and firmware using embedded Linux. Some of our recent devices include wireless VoIP to PSTN adapters and routers, POS terminals, networked vending machine controllers, and JTags.

Before coming to Japan I did a lot of cross platform (Win, WinCE/WinMobile, MacOSX, *Linux, *BSD, etc.) development in the banking space with VISA members, and built applications which used my own PKI based crypto including SSL/TLS and CMS based digital signatures and encryption.

I have not done any development on the iPhone yet, since I am not much of a fan of the iPhone and iPod even though I am a hard core Mac user. But since it is the fasting selling smart-phone platform, I am planning to buy an iPod Touch and port some of my crypto applications to it, just as soon as there is a cross platform C++ widget library ported to it, such as wxWidgets, QT, JUCE, etc.

If you want to link up, I can show you some of my devices and apps if you are interested.
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Postby Mulboyne » Thu Sep 25, 2008 4:39 am

Here's an account of why one developer switched to Android: he couldn't get his application approved for sale on itunes. Time magazine wonders whether that might be Apple's Achille's heel.
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Postby maraboutslim » Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:10 am

Seems to me that this is just another device that will appeal to developers and other geeks and leave them saying things like, "it's so much better than the iphone/ipod because of x, y, z," when x, y, and z are simply not things that the larger marketplace really gives a crap about. Meanwhile, apple builds their products to do the things that the marketplace really does give a crap about, and does so very elegantly. Example: 5 gazillion ipods sold and tiny sales for all the other music players (that geeks say are "better" because they have more format options, don't need itunes and all that stuff that only geeks care about).

(at a minimum google should have had those promo shots taken with a hand model that has huge hands: cause in that hand in the photo, the phone looks huge! no way do i want that bulky thing.)
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Postby Kuang_Grade » Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:15 pm

maraboutslim wrote:....all that stuff that only geeks care about.

You mean stuff like ....

Dude, Apple is really blowin' it by not supporting Ogg Vorbis...when will those fools wake up and realize that there is easily hundreds of people in the global marketplace just ripe for the taking if they only added that!

On a related note, the gdgt.com podcast that came out today has a bit of general level discussion about the developer issues for the apple apps store.

http://gdgt.com/

I think the time magazine analogy rings hollow, given that both phones are under two year contracts, both cost next to nothing to what computers cost in the 70s and early 80's, and these neither devices are the sole way of doing anything...its not like something like visicalc is only available on android and there simply no other device on the planet that can handle it. hell, even itunes isn't the killer app it once was given the development of amazon's store, which for me often has more songs I want, at high bit rates, cheaper prices and just a smidgen of DRM.

There is plenty of room for both platforms (if only because there is a likely a sizable audience that simply hates what ever cell phone carrier Apple has partnered with in their country...that's certainly the case for me) but I suspect that apple apps store will be in a good position for the near term simply just to the fact that the itunes interface is something regular people can approach comfortably and the money stream is very clear and evident to developers.
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Postby havill » Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:59 am

Charles wrote:The iPhone multitasks just fine.


The multitask comment he makes is referring to how downloaded/installed applications cannot run in the background.

This is a problem for things like AIM (AOL Instant Messenger), a free download from the App Store. One would want that to run in the background while you go about your business so that people can spontaneously chat with you.
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Postby FG Lurker » Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:20 pm

There are endless problems with no multitasking.

I bought a pedometer app for $2.99 but as the iPhone does not multitask the pedometer stops when a phone call comes in. What year is this again? 1980?

Input performance has improved with v2.1 of the OS but performance was so bad before that you couldn't enter text when the phone was checking email.

Even with v2.1 Japanese input is still slow compared to Windows Mobile and the kanji prediction is (to be generous) poor. Poor prediction I could live with but it also doesn't learn new compounds! The autocorrect "feature" is annoying as hell an can't be turned off. Here's a fun autocorrect game: In English input mode try to type Izumo on your v2.1 iPhone. Try it 10 times. You can't enter Izumo onto the phone in English mode.

On the plus side, the browser works very well and the multitouch interface is slick. I don't really send mails from my phone so the shitty input isn't much of an issue for me. If Apple fixed the multitasking problems I wouldn't have much to complain about. Perhaps with v3.0... Hmm, is Apple getting to be more like Microsoft? Takes 3 versions to get something right??
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Postby Charles » Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:46 pm

A useful link for idiots who are too stupid to Google "iPhone turn off autocorrect."
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Postby FG Lurker » Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:51 pm

Charles wrote:A useful link for idiots who are too stupid to Google "iPhone turn off autocorrect."

Speaking of idiots, did you even read that page Charles?

The guy's "workaround" for disabling autocorrect for a given language is to disable that language's keyboard. Thanks, but I like having the correct keyboard for the language I am working in.
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Postby james » Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:56 pm

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Postby GomiGirl » Sat Sep 27, 2008 1:25 am

james wrote:guess my other biggest complaint.. is there anyone out there with an iphone more than a week old that hasn't already got a cracked screen? seriously, what a pisser.


Cracked screen - not this little black duck. I have 2 iPhones and and an iPod touch. Take them with me everywhere. Use them every day. Nary a cracked screen. What are you doing with them - racking up lines? :tounge:
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Postby james » Sat Sep 27, 2008 1:30 am

GomiGirl wrote:Cracked screen - not this little black duck. I have 2 iPhones and and an iPod touch. Take them with me everywhere. Use them every day. Nary a cracked screen. What are you doing with them - racking up lines? :tounge:


maybe it was that tire pressure checker app i installed..
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Postby FG Lurker » Sat Oct 04, 2008 8:48 pm

Apple would do well to learn from the mistakes they made with the Mac.

Until they finally smartened up (and produced an OS on top of BSD) Mac OS was a horrific piece of shit. It looked nice but was an unstable mess. Apple fanatics defended it tooth and nail but I highly doubt any Apple user would willingly go from OSX back to OS9... OS9 was technologically pretty similar to Win95 ffs.

Next came the hardware. After spending years fighting against the flood of x86 Apple finally figured it out and is using Intel x86 chips now.

Apple is good at a few important things:

1) Industrial design
2) OS interface design
3) Making interesting apps

What is Apple doing with the iPhone? They bought a chip design company a few years ago to try to design their own ARM CPUs and they are struggling to produce an OS that can multi-task and is stable.

How long will it take Apple to figure it out this time around?
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Postby IkemenTommy » Sun Oct 05, 2008 12:18 am

FG Lurker wrote:How long will it take Apple to figure it out this time around?

Until they stop thinking that they are better than Windows and "they are immune to virus hacks".
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Postby Taro Toporific » Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:07 am

james wrote:multitasking is just not where it needs to be
That is a shame because I was planning on running the new legal skype software "fring" on a borrowed iPhone in the States (as to not run up cell phone charges on my step-brother's ATT account). :confused:

[INDENT]
fring for Apple iPhone, iPod touch debuts in Apple's App Store
MacDailyNews - USA
... Skype, MSN Messenger, Google Talk, ICQ, SIP, Twitter, Yahoo! and AIM
friends using your iPhone's and/or iPod touch's internet connection. fring
saves ...
http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/18671/[/INDENT]
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Postby james » Sun Oct 05, 2008 3:03 pm

Taro Toporific wrote:That is a shame because I was planning on running the new legal skype software "fring" on a borrowed iPhone in the States (as to not run up cell phone charges on my step-brother's ATT account). :confused:


i just grabbed this app yesterday, moreso for its chat functionality. haven't tried it out yet though. i'd still give it a shot anyway, just don't try to do anything else with the iphone while using it, say like holding it at a slight angle or looking at the screen funny.

my biggest peeve with this bloated piece of crap right now is that the ipod functionality is horrid. it's constantly pausing itself for no reason, skipping, stopping or being just plain wonky. i could not get it to play a whole album uninterrupted the other day. this is after a full shutdown. i should not have to restore the phone just to play music without glitches but i may have no choice.

mail response is slooooow. it may or may not send me a notification saying i have mail and when it does, it takes forever to connect to softbank's server and actually download it (even with full reception). sometimes it'll just sit there appearing to do nothing but if i cycle the sleep button, the mail will suddenly appear. and for that matter, if it knows there's mail there, why the hell can it not just go ahead and actually fucking download it instead of waiting for me to press some stupid button to get it? oh right, then i wouldn't spend money for apple's mobile me service, which i've not bothered with, tyvm. also, i'll often press the button for getting mail and it simply ignores my press without doing anything despite it not having been updated in over an hour.

my gps was totally out for over a month and i was ready to give up on it when i did one final check (right outside the softbank store of course) and it started working again. i haven't tried it since but i'd not be the least surprised if it were dead again.

so between the slow ass response of apple's fucked up non-multitasking os, the fragility of the screen (and ludicrous expense to have it fixed), shitty IME and obnoxious, non-adaptive auto-correct and the applecare protection plan not being worth the fucking paper it's written on, lately i've been giving this phone two big thumbs down. anyone who asks me lately i emphatically dissuade from getting it. i can deal with it but your average japanese who is used to phones that actually work won't put up with this shit.

it's possible i have a dud. unfortunately, the nearest apple store is a bit of a trek from shimane but that may be my best bet.
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iTurd

Postby james » Wed Oct 08, 2008 6:02 pm

"Cause I'm stranded all alone, in the gas station of love, and I have to use the self-service pumps.."

- "Weird Al" Yankovic
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Postby Charles » Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:12 pm

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Postby GomiGirl » Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:15 pm

Charles wrote:Do I understand correctly, you are unable to read emails sent from Australian phones? This sounds like the most valuable feature of the iPhone.


No you moron - are you that out of touch with Japan that you don't know the name of the second biggest mobile phone carrier in Japan? AU/KDDI

I bet you feel like an idiot right about now.
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Postby Charles » Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:19 pm

GomiGirl wrote:No you moron - are you that out of touch with Japan that you don't know the name of the second biggest mobile phone carrier in Japan? AU/KDDI

I bet you feel like an idiot right about now.


Of course I don't.

YHBT.
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Postby GomiGirl » Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:54 pm

Charles wrote:Of course I don't.

YHBT.


Nice try.... but failed miserably. Pretending that you were just trolling to cover up an error just makes you look more like an arse.

Trolling is so 2002.
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