Government Discovers Some Ryokan Don't Want Foreigners

[maraboutslim]

I don't see what the big deal about fingerprinting is. In addition to the times I've been arrested (a long time ago...), I've been fingerprinted for my current job and we have to get thumbprinted to get a driving license in California.

[TFG]

I don't see what the big deal about fingerprinting is. In addition to the times I've been arrested (a long time ago...), I've been fingerprinted for my current job and we have to get thumbprinted to get a driving license in California.

Fingerprinting requirement for a job!

This is what happens when your countrymen are apathetic to Big Brother oppression.

So, pray tell me, whatever happened to the "Land of the Free & the Brave"!

And you just don't see what the "big deal' is all about. ROTFL

[Catoneinutica]

You have no clue what you're talking about.

SJ, here's your clue: Accenture = Anderson Consulting (of Enron fame)

Accenture is a huge federal contractor in the US, but is incorporated offshore. Bit contradictory, that. There's also been a lot of speculation as to how it got the big J-govt contract, the awarding of which seems to have been conceived in darkness, as it were.

If Big Brother has a Li'l Brother, his name is Accenture, "Homeland Security" profiteer extraordinaire.

[alicia454]

I don't see what the big deal about fingerprinting is. In addition to the times I've been arrested (a long time ago...), I've been fingerprinted for my current job and we have to get thumbprinted to get a driving license in California.

Because it is a biometric which you cannot change, so once it is in a database, and can easily be abused by authorities and organizations for the rest of your life. Fingerprints can be used to track your movements, and if you are wrongfully associated into a watch list, then your life is screwed.

Maryland Cops Put 53 Non-Violent Activists on Terrorist List

Imagine that you are one of those protesters, and decide to visit Japan. Well since US and Japan share terrorist databases, you will likely get stopped at the border when they check your fingerprint. Even if you got a court order in the US to remove your name from the terror watch list, there is no requirement for all of the other countries that the US shares it data with to remove you as well.

What it boils down to is how much do your value your privacy, and think that it is okay to be subject to unreasonable searches and seizures. Most people in developed countries to not think it is acceptable, which is why the governments do things like fingerprinting to those minorities with the least rights, such as visitors, immigrants, and criminals. Since if they did it to their citizens they risk losing public support. (BTW, I am okay with convicted criminals losing rights, but not the innocent.)

The way that things are going, most likely governments and other organizations will be pushing for mass DNA based biometric data from their populations within the next few years. Do you want a government to record your DNA in it database? Governments in the US and Britain are already generating a mass DNA database.

Back to the fingerprint issue. The other problem is that fingerprints can be easily faked using gelatine from gummies:

Fun with Fingerprint Readers

Since governments and other organizations have previously lost very sensitive personal data of the public in the past, it is not unreasonable to assume that they might lose biometric data in the future. A criminal could easily take fingerprint biometric data and use it to make fakes which could be left at a crime scene.

[Samurai_Jerk]

SJ, here's your clue: Accenture = Anderson Consulting (of Enron fame)

No, it doesn't. Accenture and Aderson had already split and Accenture had already lost the right to use the Anderson name in a very costly court battle by the time the Enron scandal hit. Ironically, that ended up being a good thing since the Anderson name lost its value because of Enron.

Edit: Now I can't remember if it actually went to court or was settled through arbitration. I could Wiki it but I'm too lazy.

[Iraira]

The way that things are going, most likely governments and other organizations will be pushing for mass DNA based biometric data from their populations within the next few years. Do you want a government to record your DNA in it database? Governments in the US and Britain are already generating a mass DNA database.

The FBI has a nice history of dealing with the "minor problems" in their database. When they found they had two unrelated perfect matches, they deleted both from their data base, as "this just couldn't be right.". They also claim independence of loci tested, which is questionable in itself, and then use the power rule to establish the whacky, "There's a 1 in a billion chance that it is not this guy!"
With testing error rates by even the best at Cellmark being around 2-3%, that means an error indicating a false positive would result more often than the false positive. Thus, the error rate of the test itself should be the stat used. Is a "One in ten thousand" as sexy as a "one in a billion"...

[maraboutslim]

And you just don't see what the "big deal' is all about. ROTFL

I'm surely one of the most anti-government mofos out there, but they've had my thumbprint since I got my license at 16, therefore it simply doesn't bother me if they take it again for immigration purposes.

[omae mona]

I have some questions targeted at those who have stayed in ryokans without English-speaking staff or translations, particularly during times when they did not themselves have a strong grasp of the Japanese language.

Did you have any trouble using the ryokan facilities? More importantly, do you think (now that you're an expert and can see yourself objectively ) that you inadvertently did anything that caused other guests discomfort? That caused the staff discomfort?

[Iraira]

[quote="omae mona"]I have some questions targeted at those who have stayed in ryokans without English-speaking staff or translations, particularly during times when they did not themselves have a strong grasp of the Japanese language.

Did you have any trouble using the ryokan facilities? More importantly, do you think (now that you're an expert and can see yourself objectively ]

With the exeception of me screaming "Jet Massage!" and letting a stream of farts loose in the group rotenboro, I was the perfect gentleman at all times. Actually, at the last onsen I went to, the couple dining next to us, either suddenly felt the urge to bathe, copulate, or escape, so they split real fast. Gf and I felt that it would be a waste not to take the food that they had not even touched and eat it ourselves. Is that so bad? No, it's Eco!

[Mulboyne]

[quote="omae mona"]...do you think (now that you're an expert and can see yourself objectively ]
What about when the ryokan proprietor causes his foreign guests discomfort? Many years ago I was on my own at a place in Tohoku. Thoroughly knackered, I just wanted to watch some crap on the TV, which had a slot for 10 yen coins, and turn in after dinner. Instead, I got a call from the owner asking if I'd join him in one of the reception rooms. There, he explained that he and his wife were keen to make foreign guests welcome and asked if I would please put on the samurai armour he had laid out. I was somewhat reluctant, so he countered with the idea of a men's formal kimono. I got the feeling he wasn't going to let up until I humoured him so I put the damn thing on. Worse was to follow, however. He asked me to sit down and went to put on some music. His 4'10" 180lb wife then entered and performed a traditional dance which, I assumed from her movements, was entitled "Walrus of the North". The owner might have said something like "Now, you are Japanese!" but more likely that's just something my recurring nightmares have added to the memory. I escaped shortly afterwards feeling thoroughly violated. The following morning, I was shown a map and asked to put in a pin indicating where I was from. The owner then pointed to a book of thank you letters from satisfied foreign guests and dropped a heavy hint that he would like me to contribute. There was one small consolation. I had some time to wander the local area before leaving and I was told that one of their daughters would take me around. I'd already seen the mother so was naturally apprehensive but the couple had somehow managed to adopt a supermodel which helped heal the emotional wounds of the night before.

[Mike Oxlong]

Ah, my story is not nearly so exciting. The proprietor of this small Nagano ryokan asks if I am familiar with Japanese bathing customs. I answer in the affirmative. Shortly before dinner, I enter the bathroom, strip and scrub down, rinse well, and soak in the sulphur laden waters. I close my eyes and begin to daydream. Not long after, a man in late middle-age enters, and proceeds to jump into the tub barely big enough for one, without having so much as a cursory spash of water from the bucket beside the cedar tub. Cue beeline for the change-room, and an early march to the dining room.

[Greji]

Ah, my story is not nearly so exciting. The proprietor of this small Nagano ryokan asks if I am familiar with Japanese bathing customs. I answer in the affirmative. Shortly before dinner, I enter the bathroom, strip and scrub down, rinse well, and soak in the sulphur laden waters. I close my eyes and begin to daydream. Not long after, a man in late middle-age enters, and proceeds to jump into the tub barely big enough for one, without having so much as a cursory spash of water from the bucket beside the cedar tub. Cue beeline for the change-room, and an early march to the dining room.

Did he get a stiffy when he saw you? That's usually an incentive to hit the trail before you get hit in the tail..

Actually, one of the more traditional styles of bathing is to do the cursory splash of water to take off the surface sweat and sludge, jump in the tub to loosen up the heavy funk and industrial waste located down in the pores, then get back out and soap down, before the final relaxing tub plunge.
But, unfortunately FGs don't know about the proper unique style of bathing found only during any of the four seasons in Japan. FGs have the unabashed nerve to believe one should be clean and reasonable uncontaminated when one enters the common pool.....

[Behan]

I discovered the same thing, Mike and Greji. I would try to scrub off my bata-kusai before I got in but was surprised to see Chrysanthemums just douse themselves a little bit before getting in.

[Cyka UchuuJin]

[quote="omae mona"]I have some questions targeted at those who have stayed in ryokans without English-speaking staff or translations, particularly during times when they did not themselves have a strong grasp of the Japanese language.

Did you have any trouble using the ryokan facilities? More importantly, do you think (now that you're an expert and can see yourself objectively ]

the boyfriend and i stayed at a lovely ryokan in kibune last year. the reservation was made via japanguesthouses.com, but no one there spoke english (and our japanese isn't very good). the staff were really lovely and were very patient with my limited japanese. they fussed over us and even shut down the male onsen for an hour so that we could bathe together alone.

we stayed in our room most of the time, so didn't really see any other guests. no problem at all figuring things out on our own.

i fully respect that some ryokans don't want foreigners and don't really feel slighted or offended that i would be turned away. their country, their rules, their preferences. the discrimination must be irritating sometimes, but as i always maintain, if it annoys me that much, i can leave. no one is forcing me to be in japan and if i can't play by their rules, then i shouldn't be there in the first place. as much as i am for cultural diversity and racial harmony, blah blah blah, some things should just be kept for the locals.

[Greji]

they fussed over us and even shut down the male onsen for an hour so that we could bathe together alone.

Yup. They shut it down to reposition the security camera. It was very nice. I had a chance to see you, before they put it up on YouTube.....

[Cyka UchuuJin]

Yup. They shut it down to reposition the security camera. It was very nice. I had a chance to see you, before they put it up on YouTube.....

i KNEW that was you. that's it, G...this means war. the goat videos are getting posted.

[Iraira]

i KNEW that was you. that's it, G...this means war. the goat videos are getting posted.

All goat videos are the property and sole ownship of IraIra K.K., any rebroadbast, reproduction (with a goat?), or retransmission, without the expressed authorized consent of IraIra K.K., is expressly forbidden under penalty of having your "morning after" pictures e-mailed directly to Take-chan, who more than likely will "glue" them together within minutes.

[alicia454]

i fully respect that some ryokans don't want foreigners and don't really feel slighted or offended that i would be turned away. their country, their rules, their preferences. the discrimination must be irritating sometimes, but as i always maintain, if it annoys me that much, i can leave. no one is forcing me to be in japan and if i can't play by their rules, then i shouldn't be there in the first place. as much as i am for cultural diversity and racial harmony, blah blah blah, some things should just be kept for the locals.

With that logic, then it is okay for hotels and resorts in Europe or North America to turn away Japanese visitors because of their race?

What if the EU, Canada, and the US removed all anti-discrimination laws and policies just for the Japanese, so that it is legal to discriminate again them? I'm sure that the most Japanese (especially those in media and politics) would be outraged, even though they don't give a damm about their country's own lack of anti-discrimination protection.

[Samurai_Jerk]

With that logic, then it is okay for hotels and resorts in Europe or North America to turn away Japanese visitors because of their race?

What if the EU, Canada, and the US removed all anti-discrimination laws and policies just for the Japanese, so that it is legal to discriminate again them? I'm sure that the most Japanese (especially those in media and politics) would be outraged, even though they don't give a damm about their country's own lack of anti-discrimination protection.

I think it's OK to discriminate against any Portuguese chick with a persecution complex and a chip on her shoulder.

[Cyka UchuuJin]

With that logic, then it is okay for hotels and resorts in Europe or North America to turn away Japanese visitors because of their race?

What if the EU, Canada, and the US removed all anti-discrimination laws and policies just for the Japanese, so that it is legal to discriminate again them? I'm sure that the most Japanese (especially those in media and politics) would be outraged, even though they don't give a damm about their country's own lack of anti-discrimination protection.

did i say because of their race? no, i did not. i think if an american/european/canadian/african/antartican owned, managed and operated facility in their own country wished to not allow non american/european/canadian/african/antartican citizens to stay there than that's fine. it's a citzenship question, not a racial one.

there are places in russia where if you don't hold a russian passport, you're not allowed in. sometimes i specifically prefer to stay in them.

their country, their rules.
and i really doubt the japanese would be outraged. the majority of them travel in package tour groups and specifically seek out hotels and resorts that are either owned, designed, managed, or marketed by japanese.

[IkemenTommy]

their country, their rules.
and i really doubt the japanese would be outraged. the majority of them travel in package tour groups and specifically seek out hotels and resorts that are either owned, designed, managed, or marketed by japanese.

Well, here's an idea. How about starting a gaijin-friendly ryokan owned by a gaijin staff. Maybe that would take care of all the discriminatory problems, don't you think?

[Cyka UchuuJin]

Well, here's an idea. How about starting a gaijin-friendly ryokan owned by a gaijin staff. Maybe that would take care of all the discriminatory problems, don't you think?

where? in japan?

[Greji]

Well, here's an idea. How about starting a gaijin-friendly ryokan owned by a gaijin staff. Maybe that would take care of all the discriminatory problems, don't you think?

Not if they were smart. Ever been to a Philipina Bar in downtown Tokyo and been told Japanese only? Lot of them around. The FG round-eyes show up and Free-wheeling Pops starts asking for his dempyou. FG expenditures are never gonna match Pops, so weigh the cash drawer and tell me who you going serve and who you going to throw out?

[maraboutslim]

If only Groucho Marx had said something apropos to this topic...

[Mulboyne]

If only Groucho Marx had said something apropos to this topic...

He did:

Go, and never darken my towels again. (Duck Soup)

[Typhoon]

If only Groucho Marx had said something apropos to this topic...

During one of his many tours of Japan:

"I'd never visit a ryokan that would have me as a guest."

[Mulboyne]

Asahi: Many tourist hotels only monolingual

Forty percent of hotels and Japanese-style inns receiving tax breaks as "international tourist" venues do not serve foreign guests in any language other than Japanese. The internal affairs ministry on Tuesday instructed the tourism ministry to improve the situation. According to a survey by the Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications, 59 percent of the 1,560 "international tourist hotels" that hosted foreign visitors in 2007 said they served the guests in at least one language other than Japanese. Seventeen percent said they had plans to do so, while 23 percent said they didn't.

[Behan]

Wouldn't it be funny to find out that some of those international inns receiving tax breaks refused to let FGs stay with them? Maybe not funny, but not surprising, either.

[Thanatos' embalmed botfly]

http://risingsuntimes.com/?p=118