[jez]

at some point, it went out of my mind that this was a *discussion* board, and there is no justification or reason to pick on any individuals point of view.. sure its ok to question it or converse on various topics, but in no way is it ok to say someone is right or wrong about a matter of taste or opinion so its my bad..

Don't know whether this was ironic or not...
Anyway, I'd like to say that I think Oyaji's homophobic opinions are wrong. He is entitled to those opinions(as long as he doesn't go out abusing anybody), but I am not going to pretend that I accept his point of view. It's simple: I don't. One doesen't have to accept other people's opinions, simply because this is a 'discussion board'. However, one must present a reasonable argument. It's fair enough to say "I don't like gays, they make me wanna throw up", but don't expect to be taken seriously. Gay sex doesn't particuarly appeal to me(although I don't really know what it consists of, since I've never tried it), but I can't think of any compelling argument as to why it is unnatural.

[Caustic Saint]

Are you pro gay?

What the f*ck is a 'pro-gay'?

It's another way of saying "anti-discrimination" that makes it sound like the problem is yours, not the speaker's.

[Andocrates]

I suppose I should respond, but it's such a stupid topic no one gives a shit anymore. But this need for our approval about your life style isn't healthy. If you believe in yourself you shouldn't need everyone to pat you on the back and how how normal you are. Which is what this is really all about, you wan't attention and approval.

I don't approve, so get over it.

[Caustic Saint]

I suppose I should respond, but it's such a stupid topic no one gives a shit anymore. But this need for our approval about your life style isn't healthy. If you believe in yourself you shouldn't need everyone to pat you on the back and how how normal you are. Which is what this is really all about, you wan't attention and approval.

I don't approve, so get over it.

Okay, my last thought on this. I take it you're using a general "you" there and not one directed at anybody in this thread. I don't reacall anybody coming out here.

You don't approve, others do. Cool. We'll agree to disagree on that point.

Let's hope this wraps things up and we can ge back to talking about naught OLs now.

[jez]

But this need for our approval about your life style isn't healthy. If you believe in yourself you shouldn't need everyone to pat you on the back and how how normal you are. Which is what this is really all about, you wan't attention and approval.

And what makes you think people who speak out against homophobia must automatically be gay? You don't have to approve, but unless you have some reasonable expalanation for your disapproval, you won't be taken seriously.

[jez]

We'll agree to disagree on that point.

Let's hope this wraps things up and we can ge back to talking about naught OLs now. :D

I don't intend to let anybody get away with half-truths, generalisations and ignorant insults. Everyone's entitled to their opinions, and everone's entitled to attack those opinions if they disagree.

[Andocrates]

don't intend to let anybody get away with half-truths, generalisations and ignorant insults. Everyone's entitled to their opinions, and everone's entitled to attack those opinions if they disagree.

Gee Jez, did I miss the post where you cited all the "truths" and "specifics?" It seems to me you have been just as critical, just as insulting and lacking specifics like everyone else.

You are incensed that someone believes different then you - - welcome to life.

I think there is nothing sadder in life then an elderly homosexual. I think gay is a huge misnomer since they are among the most unhappy people I know. I have several homosexuals in my my immediate family, several more I knew when I was younger who are now dead from aids. I majored in music and drama and they are inescapable in those fields. They move from partner to partner without ever finding any true happiness, and I think it's sad.

Some people are destined to that life, the pull is too strong for them. And for those people I have no condemnation. However, there are people who experiment with homosexuality, if left alone they would come out of it and move on to a normal life. Get married have some kids - is this a better life or not? It seems more natural from a biological standpoint to me. But, this huge drive to make "Gay" normal crosses the line because some people get sucked into a life they are not happy with because they are encouraged (while they are still young and attractive) to "come out."

I think there should be another camp that says, "Maybe there is another way for you. Maybe you can find a better life then the endless merry-go-round of sex partners, (and if you have ever whored, straight or gay, you know how empty that leaves you)

So you cannot discount my observations about life just because you think I'm not PC. The things I have seen with my own two eyes make up my beliefs, not some propaganda from GLAAD.

[American Oyaji]

Andocrates.

Well said.

And for the one talking about God's law.

How can anyone stating God's law be wrong?

I'm not conducting an inquisition. I'm not out trying to find out who is gay. I'm just stating that according to God's law which is written quite clearly in the Bible that it is wrong. Period.

You can say I am wrong, but you won't be arguing with me, You'll be arguing with God and that is just plain dumb. I'm just stating what was written.

Jez, I believe you are either a homosexual, or you have had homosexual dealings in the past. In either case you are ashamed of your choice.
If not then you are calling that which is wrong...right.

In our society today, everyone is about pushing the boundary, pushing the envelope. Trying to get away with something. Every year TV shows try to push to see what they can get away with. Movies as well. It's the stupefication of America and other countries. TV shows and movies get more and more violent and have more gratutious T & A every year.
I kinda like the old Hollywood movies where a kiss and a fade to black with a man & woman in a bedroom with him pulling off her jacket let you know they were gonna get it on. In many ways, the story has taken a back seat to explosions and naked body parts on screen.

There have been standards that have been set that people are trying to pull down around the country. Morals are slipping further and further. It is better to be on the safe side of morality than be on the liberal side for danger of treading too far. And that is what is happening. Look at the American legal system. It's a joke. I can't speak of Japan because I havent had any dealings and don't know anyone in it. But in the U.S., sleazy attorneys have a field day. I don't know how their consciences let them sleep at night.

Sorry this has become a rant, but people have just become too LOOSE with morality. Myself included. And I have been cleaning up my act in recent years to change this.
Morality has taken a back seat to being politcally correct. Forget that. I'm anti PC. I'm for doing the RIGHT thing. Not the POPULARLY CORRECT thing.
But I still believe in legal weed. It grows as a plant and is used in that same form. It's not processed and treated with chemicals like tobacco is.

Ijo

[Andocrates]

Well morality based on the bible is a no brainer since the instructions are very clear. However, the bible and Christianity are for those who accept the belief system.

The challenge is to work out morality based on human society. So in a sense when you use the bible as your reference you take yourself out of the equation. We do have some starting points to work with, human nature. Some things have shown they are destructive vs things that have shown they nuture a society. Sexuality is a case in point and a very difficult thing to understand.

[hanabi]

Okay, I admit that I skipped that last few posts because all I could think was "bullshit, bullshit, bullshit." Do you know why most of the homosexuals you know are unhappy? It's because of people like you who hold yourself morally superior to them and look down on them for their lifestyle. Things like that affect every aspect of their life--personally, professionally, etc. And if you can't understand how social ignorance and intolerance can lead a person to feel unhappy and not validated as a human being, then you're just not thinking hard enough. If you've ever complained about being looked down on or treated unfairly as a foreigner, then you should understand.

About god's law, religion is a very personal matter, so I don't see how it's relevant. If you're going by the bible, you'd know that it is impossible to follow every rule in the book. (And most of them were politically motivated anyway.) All Christians, no matter who they are, break dozens of them every day. That's up to the individual to deal with. The whole point of most religions is to teach people 1) to deal with death and the mysteries of life in a way that comforts them and 2) to not be an asshole. Let's just try to remember that when we feel compelled to make broad judgments about matters that don't concern us.

[jez]

I think there is nothing sadder in life then an elderly homosexual. I think gay is a huge misnomer since they are among the most unhappy people I know. I have several homosexuals in my my immediate family, several more I knew when I was younger who are now dead from aids. I majored in music and drama and they are inescapable in those fields. They move from partner to partner without ever finding any true happiness, and I think it's sad.

Some people are destined to that life, the pull is too strong for them. And for those people I have no condemnation. However, there are people who experiment with homosexuality, if left alone they would come out of it and move on to a normal life. Get married have some kids - is this a better life or not? It seems more natural from a biological standpoint to me. But, this huge drive to make "Gay" normal crosses the line because some people get sucked into a life they are not happy with because they are encouraged (while they are still young and attractive) to "come out."

Hasty generalisations and straw man fallacies(for your reference:http://www.intrepidsoftware.com/fallacy/toc.htm)
To start with, the gays you know do not represent the gay community as a whole. I've met many gay people, and while some may have been sad, most of them weren't. Also, your insinuation that being gay causes sadness is a coincidental correlation(same reference). You cannot say for a fact, that they are sad because they are gay. There may be a host of reasons why they are sad. One reason could be, that they are not accepted by society. For example, we could say, that Jews in a muslim country are sad. That is not to say, that they are wrong to be Jewish.
Your idea that there is a drive to make 'gay' normal, looks like a straw man fallacy to me, because you are not addressing the real problem:that you have no evidence (other than your own tastes, fears, whatever) that being 'gay' is not normal. Homosexuality has existed pretty much forever, and according to many observers, homosexuality exists in the animal(non-human) kingdom(I note that others have made the latter point on this thread before, but you have not answered it).

[jez]

How can anyone stating God's law be wrong?

Well, you'd have to give me evidence first, that god exists, let alone god's law.

I'm not conducting an inquisition. I'm not out trying to find out who is gay. I'm just stating that according to God's law which is written quite clearly in the Bible that it is wrong. Period.?

I was not aware that the Bible was scientific evidence.

Jez, I believe you are either a homosexual, or you have had homosexual dealings in the past. In either case you are ashamed of your choice.
If not then you are calling that which is wrong...right.

My friend, you can believe what you want. That does not make it correct. If I was arguing for acceptance of blacks, Jews, whatever, would you automatically think I was black, Jewish, whatever? I suggest you broaden your horizons(no irony).

In our society today, everyone is about pushing the boundary, pushing the envelope. Trying to get away with something. Every year TV shows try to push to see what they can get away with. Movies as well. It's the stupefication of America and other countries. TV shows and movies get more and more violent and have more gratutious T & A every year.
I kinda like the old Hollywood movies where a kiss and a fade to black with a man & woman in a bedroom with him pulling off her jacket let you know they were gonna get it on. In many ways, the story has taken a back seat to explosions and naked body parts on screen.

Same straw man fallacy I pointed out to Andocrates. Don't mix up the arguments. If you want a discussion on Political Correctness, that's fine with me(I'd probably agree with you), but let's stick to this argument for now.

There have been standards that have been set that people are trying to pull down around the country. Morals are slipping further and further. It is better to be on the safe side of morality than be on the liberal side for danger of treading too far. And that is what is happening. Look at the American legal system. It's a joke. I can't speak of Japan because I havent had any dealings and don't know anyone in it. But in the U.S., sleazy attorneys have a field day. I don't know how their consciences let them sleep at night.

What standards? As I pointed out(and others before me)to Andocrates, homosexuality has been around pretty much forever.

Sorry this has become a rant, but people have just become too LOOSE with morality. Myself included. And I have been cleaning up my act in recent years to change this.
Morality has taken a back seat to being politcally correct. Forget that. I'm anti PC. I'm for doing the RIGHT thing. Not the POPULARLY CORRECT thing.
But I still believe in legal weed. It grows as a plant and is used in that same form. It's not processed and treated with chemicals like tobacco is.

Ijo

So far, you've offered no real evidence(other than the Bible)as to why homosexuality should be less moral than smoking weed. Remember, you're entitled to your opinions, but simply holding an opinion does not make it fact. Evidence is The Word.

[GargoyleTS]

I think there is nothing sadder in life then an elderly homosexual.

He was not saying all homosexuals are sad.

Not slammin ya, just pointing it out.

[ramchop]

[cstaylor]

Too late, I already claimed for this thread.

[jez]

I think there is nothing sadder in life then an elderly homosexual.

He was not saying all homosexuals are sad.

Not slammin ya, just pointing it out.

Quite right. However,

I think gay is a huge misnomer since they are among the most unhappy people I know.

He didn't actually write that all gays were sad, but that was surely the insinuation, was it not?

[GargoyleTS]

DOH!! Apologies. (gotta remember to look BOTH ways before crossing)

[jez]

I have several homosexuals in my my immediate family, several more I knew when I was younger who are now dead from aids.

I'm sure this was not an insinuation that AIDS is a gay disease, but I'd just like to take this opportunity to remind people, that AIDS affects all sections of the population, including drug users and heterosexuals. Anyone who has unprotected sex is at risk. In my experience, young heterosexuals sleep around more than homosexuals. Of course, this is only what I have noticed, and it does not constitute evidence. However, it has been proven that HIV is not contracted only by homsexuals.

[jez]

Too late, I already claimed for this thread. ]

Don't worry, guys, no-one's forcing you to stay. 'Night.

[Big Booger]

How does this thread go from OL sex firings to elderly homosexuals?

[jez]

How does this thread go from OL sex firings to elderly homosexuals?

It's called open debate. I hope no-one's gonna start doing a gaijin-are-trash, and start censoring and moving posts to different forums on a whim...

[jez]

double post-cannot delete...

[cstaylor]