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Those people

Postby samuraiwig » Sat Jan 17, 2009 3:22 pm

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Postby Samurai_Jerk » Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:15 pm

Faith is believing what you know ain't so. -- Mark Twain
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Postby james » Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:14 pm

Samurai_Jerk wrote:I find Aso's comments outrageous. Everyone knows the buraku aren't people.


i just read the article. not sure which is sadder - the comment made or the fact that no one was at all surprised by it.
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Postby Samurai_Jerk » Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:33 pm

james wrote:i just read the article. not sure which is sadder - the comment made or the fact that no one was at all surprised by it.


How about the fact that they felt there was no need to make an issue out of it because they never figured the public would find out. That's Japanese shame culture at work, baby. It ain't wrong if no body loses face.

I wonder how the average Japanese person really feels about the burakumin.
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Postby james » Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:35 pm

Samurai_Jerk wrote:How about the fact that they felt there was no need to make an issue out of it because they never figured the public would find out. That's Japanese shame culture at work, baby. It ain't wrong if no body loses face.

I wonder how the average Japanese person really feels about the burakumin.


agreed completely. i have hope that the whole concept of the buraku caste will die off when these fossils currently at the helm of the nihon-maru finally kick off.
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Postby kusai Jijii » Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:33 pm

Aso is on the way out anyway. Cunt.
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Postby Kagetsu » Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:39 am

I've not heard anything good of Aso the Asshole.

On a side note, I'd never heard of buraku... Or if I had, it was in passing, and didn't feel it warrented any attention.
That's pretty severe... It's outright petty... on a massive, massive scale.
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Postby TennoChinko » Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:06 am

james wrote:agreed completely. i have hope that the whole concept of the buraku caste will die off when these fossils currently at the helm of the nihon-maru finally kick off.


If you do a bit of research on the subject, you'll discover there is a significant & influential part of the burakumin community leadership - the Buraku Liberation League in particular - who have gone out of their way to keep the identity of burakumin and burakumin neighborhoods out in the open. That ensures they retain all the government subsidies and affirmative action programs within municipal civil service. Somewhat counter-intuitive and short-sighted in principal but Hell... follow the money.
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Postby Yokohammer » Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:32 am

TennoChinko wrote:If you do a bit of research on the subject, you'll discover there is a significant & influential part of the burakumin community leadership - the Buraku Liberation League in particular - who have gone out of their way to keep the identity of burakumin and burakumin neighborhoods out in the open. That ensures they retain all the government subsidies and affirmative action programs within municipal civil service. Somewhat counter-intuitive and short-sighted in principal but Hell... follow the money.


I think this is the right approach, and I don't think it's all about money.

Discrimination of this sort needs to be exposed and dealt with rather than being swept under the carpet, which is the traditional Japanese approach: "exclude and marginalize." Also, members of any group like this, Ainu and third-generation Koreans included, need a sense of identity and pride in their heritage, and deserve to have both.

Keeping it out in the open provides a chance that the problems will be addressed and resolved.
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Postby TennoChinko » Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:48 am

I really don't think the "I'm Eta-Hinin! I'll say it loudly & proudly" approach would work as it might in the US and I don't think it would really help those Japanese trying to succeed in mainstream society.

For those FG's inclined to lend their support, we have:

http://www.zazzle.com/burakumin_sky_shirt-235206605387894984

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Postby Yokohammer » Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:09 pm

TennoChinko wrote:I really don't think the "I'm Eta-Hinin! I'll say it loudly & proudly" approach would work as it might in the US and I don't think it would really help those Japanese trying to succeed in mainstream society.


Sounds like you're saying that burakumin descendants should be ashamed of and hide their past.

Correct me if I'm misunderstanding, but if that's what you are saying I can't agree. At all.
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Postby GomiGirl » Sun Jan 18, 2009 5:43 pm

What always surprises me about this issue is that it is not a racial discrimination. It is a social one and a perceived one based on the jobs that a certain community were involved in many moons ago - jobs that were considered "unclean". It seems that some people will find any excuse to keep another person down.
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Postby Gilligan » Sun Jan 18, 2009 6:37 pm

GomiGirl wrote:What always surprises me about this issue is that it is not a racial discrimination. It is a social one and a perceived one based on the jobs that a certain community were involved in many moons ago - jobs that were considered "unclean". It seems that some people will find any excuse to keep another person down.


Sadly discrimination based on social issues is a practice that is hardly limited. It spans most of recorded history and has been noted in most (if not all) regions of the world.

I do agree that it is even sadder that it persists to such an extent in a country that is meant to be representative of a modern society.
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Postby samuraiwig » Sun Jan 18, 2009 7:02 pm

Gilligan wrote:Sadly discrimination based on social issues is a practice that is hardly limited. It spans most of recorded history and has been noted in most (if not all) regions of the world.


Agreed.

Gilligan wrote:It is even sadder that it persists to such an extent in a country that is meant to be representative of a modern society.


You talking about Japan? We could debate the "modern society", but it'd be hard to argue that Japan is trying to be representative of anything to a world that it largely prefers to ignore.

Seriously, I find this kind of thing depressing - stigmatizing burakumin, ostracizing the Ainu, making 4th generation Japanese-Koreans carry gaijin cards and not allowing them to work as public servants, etc. But, without wishing to sound like an apologist (especially for Aso - asshole), there are very few places around the world that have a clean record on such issues, and each country tackles them in their own time/way.

Japan (along with other east Asian countries, I'd argue) does have a particular problem with reconciling the "say it loud and say it proud" vs "pretend it doesn't exist and eventually it won't" approaches. It's probably not ready for/suited to the former, and the latter doesn't really resolve anything.
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Postby TennoChinko » Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:12 am

Yokohammer wrote:Sounds like you're saying that burakumin descendants should be ashamed of and hide their past.

Correct me if I'm misunderstanding, but if that's what you are saying I can't agree. At all.


Neither. If we agree that the concept of caste ought be irrelevant and die a natural death, then it makes no sense to encourage burakumin down the 'say it loudly & proudly' path.

Samurai_Jerk wrote:How about the fact that they felt there was no need to make an issue out of it because they never figured the public would find out. That's Japanese shame culture at work, baby. It ain't wrong if no body loses face.

I wonder how the average Japanese person really feels about the burakumin.


My guess is that you won't get honest answers from most polls out there. They'll either profess ignorance of the issue or indicate it does not bother them like it might have their parents or grandparents. Chances are the negative visceral reactions are much stronger and deeper. Witness the extreme discomfort of many if one is obtuse enough to loudly utter the word "burakumin" in public. Such a subject is usually discussed behind closed doors, whispered and with the usually euphemisms in place (eg. "yotsu" etc).
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Postby Yokohammer » Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:11 pm

TennoChinko wrote:Neither. If we agree that the concept of caste ought be irrelevant and die a natural death, then it makes no sense to encourage burakumin down the 'say it loudly & proudly' path.


OK, I see you're point, and I agree that caste should be irrelevant, but silence won't make it so.

As long as the "b" word continues to be whispered behind closed doors it will be perceived as a taboo subject, which only reinforces the stigma.

It won't go away unless it's addressed head-on, which is why it's still a problem to this day.

I'm not sure I'd go for a "loud and proud" approach, but the issue has to be dragged out into the open and wrestled to the ground in the light of day so that everyone can see and agree that it's wrong.
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Postby bolt_krank » Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:26 pm

I don't agree with it - but I'm not surprised either.
The country thrives on discrimination. That's where the whole blood-type concept came from.
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Postby TennoChinko » Sun Jan 25, 2009 4:01 pm

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Postby Jadic » Sun Jan 25, 2009 4:55 pm

Natural selection is harsh. The strong/intelligent/lucky accomplish great feats and get to go down in history as the good guys. The weak get destroyed/enslaved/forgotten and thats just the reality of it. If buraku were the ones who conquered the other tribe families back in the day theyd be calling those in power now buraku and thinking lowly of them. Why dont we start welfare programs for all the crops with genetic imperfections. We can breed all the corn that gets mites cause ti cant do it itself. Then we'll take all the conifers that cant survive winter and put them inside for that part of the year. Fuck Im glad people with these mentalities never amount to anything. Why the hell do you need to defend someone else? Why are 99 percent of people who cry racism not even a member of the race this supposed "racism" is happening to? Fuck its nature we live we strive for greatness and we die. Im broke and living in a fucking shithole. Why dont you all send me some cash? Im getting shit for this or that and no ones defending me. Why? Cause its given Im a fucking man (not to be sexist its just the only word I could use for this sentence to express what Im saying) who others feel should be able to fend for myself. I cant even get started on how fucking annoying all these anti racism people are. Its a hard world Ive had guns knives and fists used against me several times. Maybe if some of you soft "the world isnt fair" fuckers went through some of that shit yourselves you wouldnt be so naive.
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Postby Gilligan » Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:23 pm

Jadic wrote:Natural selection is harsh. The strong/intelligent/lucky accomplish great feats and get to go down in history as the good guys. The weak get destroyed/enslaved/forgotten and thats just the reality of it. If buraku were the ones who conquered the other tribe families back in the day theyd be calling those in power now buraku and thinking lowly of them. Why dont we start welfare programs for all the crops with genetic imperfections. We can breed all the corn that gets mites cause ti cant do it itself. Then we'll take all the conifers that cant survive winter and put them inside for that part of the year. Fuck Im glad people with these mentalities never amount to anything. Why the hell do you need to defend someone else? Why are 99 percent of people who cry racism not even a member of the race this supposed "racism" is happening to? Fuck its nature we live we strive for greatness and we die. Im broke and living in a fucking shithole. Why dont you all send me some cash? Im getting shit for this or that and no ones defending me. Why? Cause its given Im a fucking man (not to be sexist its just the only word I could use for this sentence to express what Im saying) who others feel should be able to fend for myself. I cant even get started on how fucking annoying all these anti racism people are. Its a hard world Ive had guns knives and fists used against me several times. Maybe if some of you soft "the world isnt fair" fuckers went through some of that shit yourselves you wouldnt be so naive.


You really are an idiot aren't you? Natural selection has nothing to so with social Darwinism.

If you had half a brain you'd be dangerous.
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Postby Jadic » Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:34 pm

....where do you think the term came from....... yes natural selection and social darwinism are the same thing. maybe you should read abit about the phrases and words you use before making a post ;)

"Natural selection is the process by which favorable heritable traits become more common in successive generations of a population of reproducing organisms"

"Social Darwinism refers to various ideologies based on a concept that competition among all individuals, groups, nations, or ideas drives social evolution in human societies"
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Postby kusai Jijii » Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:39 pm

Gill, dont even bother Bro. Sit back and enjoy the show. Let him do all the work. I havent seen anyone so keen to show how thick they are since the days of AJ and Minihux.
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Postby Gilligan » Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:40 pm

Like I said, you're an idiot.

Social Darwinism

While the term has been applied to the claim that Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection can be used to understand the social endurance of a nation or country, social Darwinism commonly refers to ideas that predate Darwin's publication of On the Origin of Species. Others whose ideas are given the label include the 18th century clergyman Thomas Malthus, and Darwin's cousin Francis Galton who founded eugenics towards the end of the 19th century.


Natural selection has been used to rationalize the racist views which you espouse. But anyone who's ever read Darwin knows those views have little to do with what Darwin meant by evolution or natural selection. Let's be real, if natural selection applied to humans, we wouldn't be having this discussion because you would never have been born.
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Postby kusai Jijii » Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:48 pm

Gilligan wrote:Like I said, you're an idiot.

Let's be real, if natural selection applied to humans, we wouldn't be having this discussion because you would never have been born.


Gill for the win!
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Postby Jadic » Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:55 pm

I wouldnt? I highly doubt youd register higher then me on the scale of reproductive fitness. My pictures are abound. Its fairly clear Im a healthy 21 year old who isnt in any way sickly or malformed. While my current situation is unfortunate I believe the tides will change. In any event all I have to do is reproduce more then you to be "more fit" in definition. I come from a family of 4, with both parents coming from families of 5, with their parents coming from quite large families as well. Despite my sisters homicide everyone in my family is pretty healthy and attractive and will likely yield large quantities of offspring. By the very definition fit. Also your argument is on semantics. Both social darwinism and natural selection have the same results and are identical. A rose by any other name would still smell as sweet. So Gilligan how old are you? How many children do you have of your patronage? What size family do you come from? These define your fitness. If youre a 40 year old salaryman with no children (raising the wifeys doesnt count cause they probably came from someone like me, in which case thanks for the help ;)) then you unfortunately lack genetic fitness. Sucks to be you.
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Postby hundefar » Sun Jan 25, 2009 6:19 pm

[quote="Jadic"]....where do you think the term came from....... yes natural selection and social darwinism are the same thing. maybe you should read abit about the phrases and words you use before making a post ]

Social Darwinism is based on the fallacious view that natural equals good, or in other words, what is, ought to be. It is what educated people call sloppy thinking. Darwin himself was not a social darwinist, though he was a friend of Herbert Spencer, who was the most important social darwinist thinker.
Even the most hardcore darwinists, such as Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett and Steven Pinker rejects this kind of thinking today..why? BECAUSE ANY IDIOT CAN SEE THAT IT DOESN'T FOLLOW THAT JUST BECAUSE IT HAPPENS IN NATURE IT IS GOOD. Sorry for the caps, but I hate stupidity. .
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Postby kusai Jijii » Sun Jan 25, 2009 6:29 pm

[quote="Jadic"] If youre a 40 year old salaryman with no children (raising the wifeys doesnt count cause they probably came from someone like me, in which case thanks for the help ]

Seeing as we are discussing things scientific, its highly unlikely you shired Gill's children, as when they were born, you would have been about five years old. And seeing as you only went through puberty two years ago, that you are still a virgin, and that Mrs Gill has taste, we can safely assume his kids are not really yours.

Now go play with your Dutch wife.
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Postby Jadic » Sun Jan 25, 2009 6:32 pm

hundefar wrote:Social Darwinism is based on the fallacious view that natural equals good, or in other words, what is, ought to be. It is what educated people call sloppy thinking. Darwin himself was not a social darwinist, though he was a friend of Herbert Spencer, who was the most important social darwinist thinker.
Even the most hardcore darwinists, such as Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett and Steven Pinker rejects this kind of thinking today..why? BECAUSE ANY IDIOT CAN SEE THAT IT DOESN'T FOLLOW THAT JUST BECAUSE IT HAPPENS IN NATURE IT IS GOOD. Sorry for the caps, but I hate stupidity. .


Maybe it doesnt make it good to our social perception of morality..... unless you subscribe to some kinda religion or social prejudice, there really is no good. Its a word to describe "it creates a pleasant chemical reaction in the brain of the majority." Yay I can believe in equality and feel good. Or I can believe in what is evident and see life sucks and unless you fight viscously for a place at the top youll never get their.
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Postby hundefar » Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:24 pm

Jadic wrote:Maybe it doesnt make it good to our social perception of morality..... unless you subscribe to some kinda religion or social prejudice, there really is no good. Its a word to describe "it creates a pleasant chemical reaction in the brain of the majority." Yay I can believe in equality and feel good. Or I can believe in what is evident and see life sucks and unless you fight viscously for a place at the top youll never get their.


It has nothing to do with believing in equality. It is just sloppy thinking. Social darwinism does not follow from the theory of evolution. It is a non sequiteur. Just as it does not follow that one is egalitarian if one does not agree with social darwinism. My God, you are really thick.
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Postby Gilligan » Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:41 pm

kj, thanks for the effort, but I'm not so sure that came out exactly as you wanted.

There was nothing natural about what happened to the Armenians in the early 1900s, to the European Jews in the late 1930s and early 1940s, in Cambodia in the 1970s, etc. The selection of the Turks, the Nazis, and the Khmer Rouge had nothing to do with genetic material that made them better equipped to survive in their environment. Moreoever, the result of such artificial selection is NOT the same as the result of natural selection.

As to you, let's look at the facts. 1) You were thrown out of the military at a time when they're practically begging people to join. 2) You thought it would be a good idea to get an anchor tattooed on your lip. 3) You seem to have absolutely no gainful employment which is why you are hoping the military will allow you to join again. I would say those traits place you BEHIND even Jack in the general line of natural selection. Of course, for all I know, you may live in an environment where those traits are considered desirable.
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