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  • fuckedgaijin ‹ General ‹ F*cked News

Legally fucked gaijin.

Odd news from Japan and all things Japanese around the world.
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72 posts • Page 1 of 3 • 1, 2, 3

Legally fucked gaijin.

Postby BO-SENSEI » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:41 am

Couldn't help but post this scary article i came across, it really shows the fucked up situation that foreigners are in.

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/print/fl20090324zg.html

Punishing foreigners, exonerating Japanese


Debito Arudou sees growing evidence of judicial double standards
By DEBITO ARUDOU

But the bias goes beyond cops and into criminal prosecution, with Japanese courts treating suspects differently according to nationality. We've already tackled the subject of how judges discount testimony from foreigners (Zeit Gist, Aug. 14, 2007), but here's the emerging pattern: If you are a Japanese committing a crime toward a non-Japanese, you tend to get off lightly. Vice versa and you "haven't a Chinaman's chance," as it were....

...So let's summarize: If you're a foreigner facing Japan's criminal justice system, you can be questioned without probable cause on the street by police, apprehended for "voluntary questioning" in a foreign language, incarcerated perpetually while in litigation, and treated differently in jurisprudence than a Japanese...

...Feeling paranoid? Don't. Just don't believe the bromide that Japanese are a "peaceful, law-abiding people by nature." They're actually scared stiff of the police and the public prosecutor. So should you be. For until official government policy changes to make Japan more receptive to immigration, non-Japanese will be treated as a social problem and policed as such.
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Postby Mike Oxlong » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:48 am

Credulous much?
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Postby nottu » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:56 am

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Postby FG Lurker » Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:01 am

Awhile back I saw a video clip of Debito going on about something (though I can't remember exactly what.) Not surprisingly he came across as a whiny little bitch.
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Postby nottu » Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:05 am

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Postby FG Lurker » Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:12 am

nottu wrote:I understand he's divorced now. He's halfway back to Youngstown.

I don't know how his wife put up with his constant whining for so long. I'd want to sucker-punch him after about 5 seconds -- and I'm not generally a violent person!
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Postby Mike Oxlong » Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:16 am

On his site, David claims he initiated the divorce. As a self-proclaimed Japan expert, why did he not know the consequences of a divorce-with-kids in this country?
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Postby wuchan » Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:44 am

Punishing foreigners, exonerating Japanese


DEBITO ARUDOU ....

That's where I stopped reading.
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Postby Mulboyne » Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:11 pm

Jesus, that's one the of worst articles Debito has ever written. There's so much that is misrepresented in the piece that you start to wonder if he's doing it deliberately or whether he just doesn't have a clue. The bizarre thing is that his general point probably has some mileage but he's managed to screw it up by choosing cases which don't make the points he thinks they make.
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Postby BO-SENSEI » Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:18 pm

I am not really sure where I am going, I just hope that when I get there, I can sit down because I am sure my feet will be tired.
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Postby Cortana » Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:39 pm

nottu wrote:I understand he's divorced now. He's halfway back to Youngstown.



Fuck no. I'm not letting him back into Ohio.
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Postby Mulboyne » Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:43 pm

BO-SENSEI wrote:...the scary part was the some what leniency in crimes against foreigners...


That's one of the many areas he goes wrong. He blames the courts but they have mostly done a decent job in the cases he cites. Given how poor the courts can be for foreign defendants, plaintiffs and witnesses, it's some achievement to pick cases which actually show them in a reasonable light. For those, he should be putting the blame on the police but he just mixes up his criticisms and gets confused. It's not the court's fault that Nozaki wasn't convicted of the first murder, it was the police who were to blame for botching the investigation. His complaint about them not handing down the death penalty is wrong and irrelevant. The same is true with the Obara case. Once it got to the prosecutors, they did the best with what they had. It was the police cock-ups which meant they didn't have the evidence they needed to do more. Its not the courts being lenient in those cases.
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Postby Iraira » Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:58 pm

Come on, it's fun to get all paranoid. Debito needs to get laid.
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Postby Samurai_Jerk » Tue Mar 24, 2009 1:01 pm

Mulboyne wrote:Jesus, that's one of the worst articles Debito has ever written.


I have to agree. It's all over the place and uses a lot of anecdotal evidence.

There's so much that is misrepresented in the piece that you start to wonder if he's doing it deliberately or whether he just doesn't have a clue. The bizarre thing is that his general point probably has some mileage but he's managed to screw it up by choosing cases which don't make the points he thinks they make.


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Postby Catoneinutica » Tue Mar 24, 2009 1:05 pm

Look. The guy's not a lawyer, and he should be liberally sprinkling his writings with caveats like IANAL (or is it "I-ANAL"?). He's an activist, a "grass-roots organizer," in Obamian jargon. You guys may think he's on a fool's errand, but if you could, would you snap your fingers and magick away Debito and all his little activities and campaigns? I don't think I would, because I do glean something interesting from his site on occasion.

That said, he sure looks like a doof in that photo.
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Postby Samurai_Jerk » Tue Mar 24, 2009 2:09 pm

Catoneinutica wrote:Look. The guy's not a lawyer, and he should be liberally sprinkling his writings with caveats like IANAL (or is it "I-ANAL"?). He's an activist, a "grass-roots organizer," in Obamian jargon. You guys may think he's on a fool's errand, but if you could, would you snap your fingers and magick away Debito and all his little activities and campaigns? I don't think I would, because I do glean something interesting from his site on occasion.


I completely support what Debito is trying to do and I don't have a problem with some of his tactics that bother others like purposefully trying to get into an onsen that he knows rejects foreigners and making a case out of it. To me that's like a black man in the segregated South of the 1950's trying to sit down at a "whites only" counter in a restaurant (I know it's not exactly the same, so please don't fucking remind me). And I too have used information from his site to.

My issue with Debito is that he often assumes the worst based on anecdotal evidence and seems ready to support any gaijin crackpot with a percieved slight. Also, as Mulb pointed out, he doesn't always point the blame in the right direction. The fact is that if you are the leading figure in rights for gaijin, you should be a bit more careful in how you present youself and what you causes you choose to take up.
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Postby Yokohammer » Tue Mar 24, 2009 2:56 pm

I keep trying to figure out why this guy ever took on Japanese nationality in the first place. Does he think he's making a sacrifice by putting himself on the front line to campaign for a better life for the rest of us hapless gaijin who aren't quite as courageous? Or does he just really enjoy getting all puffed up with righteous indignation?

I agree that he does have a few good points, as others have noted, but if he really understood the Japanese psyche he'd know that attempting to deal with problems by rubbing their noses in it is going to close a lot more doors than it will open.

Personally, I resent goofballs like Debito speaking on my behalf, giving the impression that foreigners in general feel entitled to "fix" Japan and Japanese culture to suit themselves.

There are things that need fixin' to be sure (name one country that doesn't have "issues), but there are more sensitive and productive ways to go about it. Besides, seen with a broader perspective the place isn't as broken as people like Debito seem to believe.
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Postby FG Lurker » Tue Mar 24, 2009 2:58 pm

FG Lurker wrote:I don't know how his wife put up with his constant whining for so long. I'd want to sucker-punch him after about 5 seconds -- and I'm not generally a violent person!

Apparently there is at least one passive-aggressive Debito supporter on the board as s/he gave me some anonymous and commentless red snot for the above post! :lol:
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Postby Yokohammer » Tue Mar 24, 2009 3:05 pm

FG Lurker wrote:Apparently there is at least one passive-aggressive Debito supporter on the board as s/he gave me some anonymous and commentless red snot for the above post! :lol:


Or perhaps ... the man himself?

You never know. (I wouldn't be particularly surprised).
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Postby omae mona » Tue Mar 24, 2009 3:36 pm

Like some others here, I tend to agree with the general gist of what Debito's trying to do, but I do question the efficacy of his tactics. Today's article is a disorganized incoherent mess and fails to make any point I can see. As Mulboyne pointed out, his complaint seems to be more about shoddy police work even though the article is, on its face, about the judicial system.

Now maybe it was Debito's intent to blame the judicial system for failing to correct shoddy police work. If so, he needs to build a better case with better examples, and also point to where this has worked in other countries. In the U.S. judges can certainly exclude evidence in a way that helps defendants, but it's virtually impossible for a judge to compensate for inadequate preparation on the part of the prosecution.

So maybe his complaint about the Idubor case being the judges' fault is valid, though I still am not convinced this one case proves special treatment for foreigners across the board. And placing blame on judges for systematically being easy on Japanese-on-gaijin crime is a stretch, given the anecdotes he's used.
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Postby nottu » Tue Mar 24, 2009 3:36 pm

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Postby FG Lurker » Tue Mar 24, 2009 4:45 pm

Yokohammer wrote:Or perhaps ... the man himself?

You never know. (I wouldn't be particularly surprised).

He's an attention whore so if he was here we'd all know about it. I suspect his self-promoting posts would put Rob Pongi to shame. ;)
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Postby Greji » Tue Mar 24, 2009 4:50 pm

[quote="FG Lurker"]He's an attention whore so if he was here we'd all know about it. I suspect his self-promoting posts would put Rob Pongi to shame. ]

Speaking of Rob?
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Postby Mike Oxlong » Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:20 pm

Rob's own homepage looks abandoned...
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Postby sublight » Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:50 pm

Yokohammer wrote:I agree that he does have a few good points, as others have noted, but if he really understood the Japanese psyche he'd know that attempting to deal with problems by rubbing their noses in it is going to close a lot more doors than it will open.

Personally, I resent goofballs like Debito speaking on my behalf, giving the impression that foreigners in general feel entitled to "fix" Japan and Japanese culture to suit themselves.

Definitely. Hell, there are plenty of things I want to change, but I think the better way to go about it is getting involved in the community. I figure people are less likely to discriminate against you when your kids are on the same soccer team and you stop at the same corner izakaya for a beer. And maybe once they get used to me, they'll have less of a knee-jerk reaction to the next foreigner they encounter (and if that one's an asshole, hopefully they'll come away thinking "he's an asshole" rather than "foreigners are assholes"). The law doesn't seem to have any bearing on daily life, so using lawsuits to effect social change seems like a lost cause that will just piss people off.

Maybe I'm being cluelessly naive, but at least I'm enjoying myself and getting along with the neighbors. Doesn't get my name in the paper, though, so I don't know how much that would appeal to Debito.
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Postby BO-SENSEI » Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:46 pm

Well said, i try to be the most pleasant, respectable person i can be so people will not think foreigners are loud, rude and abusive. Like when I went to the Komaki Penis Festival (I got pics if you want), there were close to 2,000 foreigners there and many of them were enjoying the free sake a little too much and were yelling and making a scene and standing out too much that made me feel embarrassed that i came from the same country as them. I know they just wanted to have a good time, but please, they were poorly represented their country.


I stand out enough with the blond hair and blue eyes, I try to reserved and composed when in public. Now I never really had a difficult time in Japan and never been really discriminated against, although, they did pat me down at a club entrance and they only patted down the foreigners. But I want just thinking how boring this place would be if it was full of foreigners and we had nothing to gripe about.
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Postby Mike Oxlong » Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:55 pm

BO-SENSEI wrote:I stand out enough with the blond hair and blue eyes, I try to reserved and composed when in public. Now I never really had a difficult time in Japan and never been really discriminated against, although, they did pat me down at a club entrance and they only patted down the foreigners. But I want just thinking how boring this place would be if it was full of foreigners and we had nothing to gripe about.

In one month and 48 posts you need to tell us you have blond hair and blue eyes three times?!:roll:

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Postby BO-SENSEI » Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:11 pm

just making sure that it was common knowledge...why do you care? jealous?

and you read all my posts? I am honored.
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Postby Yokohammer » Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:16 pm

sublight wrote:And maybe once they get used to me, they'll have less of a knee-jerk reaction to the next foreigner they encounter (and if that one's an asshole, hopefully they'll come away thinking "he's an asshole" rather than "foreigners are assholes").


Bingo! With a capital "B"!
Aw heck, make it all caps: BINGO!!!

sublight wrote:Maybe I'm being cluelessly naive, but at least I'm enjoying myself and getting along with the neighbors.


On the contrary, I think you can consider yourself one of the enlightened few.

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Postby Greji » Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:20 pm

BO-SENSEI wrote:...why do you care? jealous?


I'm not, but of course that is because I got the same color hair and eyes, but have the added advantage of having a larger johnson...
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