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  • fuckedgaijin ‹ General ‹ F*cked News

Heading East for Western Weddings

Odd news from Japan and all things Japanese around the world.
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30 posts • Page 1 of 1

Heading East for Western Weddings

Postby 2triky » Wed May 06, 2009 8:19 am

Japanese Couples Turn To U.S. For Nuptial Savings
by Margot Adler

May 3, 2009

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Akiko Sasaki and Shuhei Tajima chose to get married at the Unitarian Church of All Souls in New York City, rather than in Japan. Many Japanese couples are opting to have their weddings in the U.S. to save money.

A traditional Japanese wedding often costs at least $100,000, but over the past decade, thousands of Japanese couples have opted for a cheaper alternative: getting married in the United States.

If you wander into the very formal conservatory gardens in New York's Central Park you will often see wedding couples being photographed, the bride in her white gown, the groom in his tux, a white limousine waiting nearby. A surprising number of these couples are Japanese. And if they only invite their immediate family and a few friends to come over with them, it's much cheaper than a traditional wedding at home.

The Rev. Dick Leonard, minister emeritus at the Unitarian Church of All Souls in New York City, remembers when it all started for him. He had married a few Japanese couples, but after he performed a double wedding that included the son of one of Japan's leading movie stars, everything changed. His church, All Souls, was written up in Japanese travel guides, and he found himself doing 120 to 160 weddings a year.

"I have now married about 600 Japanese couples," he said. "I send out almost 500 anniversary cards every year, and we have had three parties in Japan for the couples who have been married at All Souls Church."

New York City is only the second favorite place in America for Japanese couples. The first is Hawaii, which has perfect weather and is much closer to Japan. But New York has that Sex in the City allure.

Leonard says that even if you add on a honeymoon, a marriage in the U.S. costs less than what these couples could afford in their homeland. Because of the traditions of obligation in Japan, most Japanese weddings include a huge, expensive party. Everyone must be invited: friends, relatives, business associates. Then there are often many outfits to buy, from traditional to modern.

A very small percentage of Japan's population is Christian, but church weddings have become extremely popular. Recently, Leonard was preparing for the wedding of Shuhei Tajima and Akiko Sasaki. It was a larger wedding than usual. Tajima works in the finance industry, has lived in the United States for many years and speaks English fluently. He met Sasaki, a television newscaster, in Japan, but they have lived in New York City for two years. So this wedding has 90 guests, since they have had time to make many friends and associates.

Sasaki says she had no idea that All Souls had a reputation for Japanese weddings. She just "loved the place. It was clean and bright and so cute."

Leonard says the hardest part of an American wedding for Japanese couples is to speak the traditional ring ceremony: all those words with "th."

As Leonard describes it, "Twelve words that could hardly be harder for any Japanese to say when you think about them: With this ring I thee wed and pledge thee my faithful love." Leonard used to suggest couples do it in Japanese, but everyone wanted to do it in English. So the couples practice.

Sasaki, whose English is somewhat limited, says that Tajima would make her practice pronunciation every night before bed. "We wanted to be prepared and not make any mistakes," Tajima said.

At the wedding, when it came time for the ring ceremony, all that practice paid off. Sasaki said the words almost flawlessly. After the ceremony, the couple walked out of the church, and the guests cheered and threw rose petals.

Tajima and Sasaki plan to move back to Japan next year. And because of Sasaki's profession as a TV newscaster, both say they will not be able to avoid the big, expensive reception with friends, family, business associates and even politicians. How big? Sasaki laughs and says, "300? 500? Yes, big."
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Postby Behan » Wed May 06, 2009 9:26 am

$100,000 for a wedding sounds a bit high, but whatever it is it's too high here in Chrysanthemumland. The prices might be higher in Tokyo than where I live, where I think they can be had for several million yen.
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Postby 2triky » Wed May 06, 2009 9:30 am

Behan wrote:$100,000 for a wedding sounds a bit high, but whatever it is it's too high here in Chrysanthemumland. The prices might be higher in Tokyo than where I live, where I think they can be had for several million yen.


Thanks for pointing that out as I was a bit skeptical about that as I read the price tag.
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Postby Behan » Wed May 06, 2009 9:35 am

I was just looking at the Disney Ambassador Hotel's wedding prices, because I don't trust myself, and for 70 guests a wedding can be had for about 3.5 million.
But even that is a crazy price. I wonder if the the author of the article accidentally moved a decimal over a place.
And for all the money they pay here it's funny how short the ceremony is and how they only get the wedding banquet room for several hours, after which they get rushed out and the next wedding party get ushered in.
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Postby 2triky » Wed May 06, 2009 9:38 am

Behan wrote:I was just looking at the Disney Ambassador Hotel's wedding prices, because I don't trust myself, and for 70 guests a wedding can be had for about 3.5 million.
But even that is a crazy price. I wonder if the the author of the article accidentally moved a decimal over a place.
And for all the money they pay here it's funny how short the ceremony is and how they only get the wedding banquet room for several hours, after which they get rushed out and the next wedding party get ushered in.



I see. I don't know if the author made a mistake, or just didn't thoroughly investigate the matter, or inflated the price for effect.
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Postby Samurai_Jerk » Wed May 06, 2009 2:44 pm

Remember he interviewed a guy working in financial services in New York who married a newscaster. They probably gave him that figure.

I wonder on average what percentage of the cost people get back from the money they receive as gifts in Japan.
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Postby Behan » Wed May 06, 2009 2:54 pm

Samurai_Jerk wrote:Remember he interviewed a guy working in financial services in New York who married a newscaster. They probably gave him that figure.

I wonder on average what percentage of the cost people get back from the money they receive as gifts in Japan.


Good point. Their price range is a lot different from a plebe like me.

I would guess each guest (or couple of guests) would be giving a man or two or three... I guess most newlyweds wouldn't break even but they probably get a healthy hunk of change back.
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Postby 2triky » Wed May 06, 2009 2:55 pm

^ Interesting question...I've read that the goshugi <wedding money> given is usually between 20000 to 30000 yen...if that's true I guess it would depend on how many people are invited to the wedding. I imagine if the wedding is more extravagant perhaps more money is expected to be given.
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Postby Behan » Wed May 06, 2009 3:02 pm

The hotels and wedding palaces must be making huge profits, especially when they are running them simultaneously and churning them out line a factory line.
I know a wedding minister who told me has done ten or more weddings in a day, although that only happened a few times. Plus, some of these places are running shinto ceremonies, too.
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Postby james » Wed May 06, 2009 4:38 pm

2triky wrote:^ Interesting question...I've read that the goshugi <wedding money> given is usually between 20000 to 30000 yen...if that's true I guess it would depend on how many people are invited to the wedding. I imagine if the wedding is more extravagant perhaps more money is expected to be given.


i would expect it to be either 10,000 or 30,000 (ie not 20,000)..
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Postby hairygateau » Wed May 06, 2009 5:46 pm

If everything about a j-wedding seems overpriced consider that the Yak is probably involved somewhere. at our wedding (last year) in osaka some of the wedding planners appeared to be ex-hostesses judging by some of the english phrases they came out with and some of the body-mods they were carrying.

amongst other blatant yak-style ripoffs, we were asked to pay substantially more as I was using my own Tux rather than the wal-mart/burtons quality outfit they wanted me to hire at some silly price. there was a lot of teeth sucking before i finally got what i wanted.

other than that, it all ran with Yak style efficiency, so money well spent!
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Postby Captain Japan » Wed May 06, 2009 7:07 pm

A traditional Japanese wedding often costs at least $100,000

It depends on your definition of "often." It probably doesn't take much effort to find various weddings that cost 10 million yen but I think the average cost would be somewhere in the 2 to 3 million yen range at a hotel.

Also "traditional" could be referring to a shinto ceremony which adds all kinds of other factors.
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Postby wuchan » Wed May 06, 2009 8:33 pm

I went to a wedding down in okinawa. Typical J-wedding except for the EIGHT HOUR reception with a ten course meal and about 300 people in attendance. Apparently the whole thing cost about 25k USD.
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Postby sublight » Wed May 06, 2009 8:54 pm

Behan wrote:The hotels and wedding palaces must be making huge profits, especially when they are running them simultaneously and churning them out line a factory line.
I know a wedding minister who told me has done ten or more weddings in a day, although that only happened a few times. Plus, some of these places are running shinto ceremonies, too.

There's one big company that started a few years back and is now all over Japan called T&G. They're big selling point is that they only handle one couple at a time: the chapel, reception hall, photographer, musicians, kitchen, etc. are all set aside for them for the duration of the wedding party. As a result, they only do two ceremonies a day, but they must be charging a buttload for it since they're opening up new halls (and they're very nice-looking halls) everywhere.

As a rent-a-priest, I always preferred the hotels and halls that ran on the assembly line system. At 15,000 yen a pop, a taian day during the busy season could bring in ten man. On the other hand, working with T&G I was pretty much guaranteed steady work every weekend, even during August and January when all the other places were dead. They both averaged out around the same over the course of the year.
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Postby Mike Oxlong » Wed May 06, 2009 10:06 pm

wuchan wrote:I went to a wedding down in okinawa. Typical J-wedding except for the EIGHT HOUR reception with a ten course meal and about 300 people in attendance. Apparently the whole thing cost about 25k USD.

300 guests there is just about average. The larger ones run 600+. Never seen one with an eight-hour reception. Of the three or four I attended down there, I think a four-hour reception was the longest.
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Postby waruta » Wed May 06, 2009 10:48 pm

2triky wrote:^ Interesting question...I've read that the goshugi <wedding money> given is usually between 20000 to 30000 yen...if that's true I guess it would depend on how many people are invited to the wedding. I imagine if the wedding is more extravagant perhaps more money is expected to be given.



Goshugi for a single person runs about 10,000+ But they do say it is "kimochi no okane" for instance, what you feel that guy/gal deserves...They do however, understand if you are a poor uni student or the like and can't fork out 3man, although if you do go as a couple, I believe that 15,000 is the bare minimum, with 30,000 being about the norm... I always hated getting invited to weddings that I couldn't back out of, plus the niji-kai and san-ji-kai and yoji-kai and so on and so forth puts a big dent in the wallet....


Btw, it seems like the Japanese couples don't usually rush off to their honeymoon like we all see in the "Just Married" with cans tied to the back cliche....any reason why?
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Postby wuchan » Wed May 06, 2009 10:56 pm

Mike Oxlong wrote:300 guests there is just about average. The larger ones run 600+. Never seen one with an eight-hour reception. Of the three or four I attended down there, I think a four-hour reception was the longest.

It ran about eight hours including three half hour intermissions for the bride to change dresses. The groom is a member of a traditional okinawan drumming group, their show was one hour. Plus, I'm not counting the two after parties thrown by the friends. I spent three days in bed recovering.
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Postby Behan » Thu May 07, 2009 7:53 pm

wuchan wrote:I went to a wedding down in okinawa. Typical J-wedding except for the EIGHT HOUR reception with a ten course meal and about 300 people in attendance. Apparently the whole thing cost about 25k USD.


That's funny. It matches the stereotype (true?) of how Okinawans are supposed to live life at a more leisurely pace. My wife has worked with many and they say that they were surprised by the rush everyone is in up here in Kanto.
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Postby canman » Thu May 07, 2009 9:28 pm

Up here in inaka Aomori, the goshugi runs from Y18 000 to Y30 000, and most wedding parties average about 300-400 guests. But that is typical in most rural areas. Most big city weddings I heard average under 100 guests. I think this reporter was scanning the socialite pages to come up with the cost that he did. I'm sure any of the stars or talents that get married have wedding costs in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, but not for the average person. Mind you I have two students who both went abroad to get married, one to Italy the other the island of Hawaii. Not sure if cost was a factor, ro just do something different.
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Postby FG Lurker » Fri May 08, 2009 12:23 am

The amount you give at a wedding depends on your status and your relationship to the couple getting married.

A university student would probably give 10,000yen. Salary workers often give 30,000.

We gave 50,000 to my brother in law when he got married but 30,000 to cousins.

This sort of money all just flows around in circles though. You get a bunch when you get married but then give a bunch to others getting married, for births, for funerals, etc etc etc.
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Speaking of Funerals

Postby canman » Fri May 08, 2009 6:33 pm

My wife's grandmother just passed away, and I experienced for the first time a Japanese funeral. First just as FL stated money does flow in many different ways, but it was the different customs that surprised me. I haven't seen the movie Okuribito, but after they brought the body to the funeral parlor, they laid her on a futon and put a vail over her head. She lay that way for one day, and my in-laws had to stay that first night to make sure that the incense and candles didn't go out. The following day, two ladies came to prep the body. The were very kind and gentle with the body and did her hair, put on make up, did her nails, etc. Then they dressed her in a white kimono and put special gloves and socks on her. We then had to lift her into her coffin, and the packed it with stuff. That night my wife and I had to stay to again keep the incense and candles burning. We took shifts sleeping and staying awake. Then yesterday was the cremation, there was a small ceremony and then the body was cremated and we waited while everything cooled down. We were then invited into a room to pick up the pieces of bone and but then into containers. Then workers picked up the rest of the remains and they were put into a special box. We then headed back to the funeral parlor, and all of this was put onto an alter they had built. We had a few hours to wait until the formal wake started and then had a special meal. Last evening the in-laws again had to stay awake all night keeping the stuff burning. Then this morning we had the funeral. It only took about 30 minutes and I had no idea what the Obosan was saying, maybe nobody could understand. Afterwards we headed upstairs for a huge meal, with tons of sushi and sashimi, and tempura, uni uni uni. Then finally the guests went home and we cleaned up and left the small apartment like place we were staying. All in all a very interesting experience. Has anybody else experienced a Japanese funeral. From what I can understand, every area has its own customs and traditions. Some really far out ones.
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Postby Behan » Fri May 08, 2009 6:54 pm

I have only been through parts of them. I had never seen a dead body before and we were all ushered into a room where my wife's dead uncle was. The funeral parlor staff shampooed his hair and dressed him. We also took turns wiping his lips with looked like a big Q-tip that we dipped in sake. I thought they said they usually used water but he had loved sake so much. In fact, it's what killed him.
My dad told me that they had once done a traditional Irish wake at his house for a dead relative but I think that tradition has disappeared in the US. But wakes are a big part of the funeral process here. There are also so many other cermonies that follow. I think the ashes are put into the grave after 49 days (7x). There is another ceremony a year after the funeral and maybe even more. I forget how many years it goes on.
I haven't been to the cremation part myself.
If my foggy memory serves me correctly, I think Itami Juzo's movie The Funeral (Ososhiki) was a funny look at what goes on at funerals that is not directly connected to the deceased or the ceremony it itself.
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Postby CrankyBastard » Fri May 08, 2009 6:58 pm

Condolences to you and yours.

What you wrote is about standard, canman.
You were fortunate that it wasn't mid summer.
No matter how much dry ice they conceal in and about the body, it doesn't quite work.:(
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Postby Cyka UchuuJin » Fri May 08, 2009 7:07 pm

i believe the 100.000$ price tag. that 3.5M for the disney wedding is just the venue and probably some food. but when you factor in the dress (vera wang dresses start at 6000$ and go up to 20.000$), the rings (tiffany for sure), the flying in of relatives, the extra outfits, the makeup and hair artists, the invitations, etc, it adds up very quickly.
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Postby canman » Fri May 08, 2009 8:11 pm

Behan I forgot about having to wipe the lips with water. That is what we used. That was the first time for me to sleep in the same room with a dead body. Not all that bad truth be told. I thought I was going to be more freaked out about it, but what was really going to happen. I must commend the staff at the funeral parlor, I know that it is there job, but they were genuinely thoughtful and caring, especially when dealing with the dead body.
CB thanks for the kind words, and I agree if it had been warmer, it would have been a lot more uncomfortable to be in that room that long with the body.
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Postby FG Lurker » Sun May 10, 2009 2:37 am

Condolences Canman, I hope grandmother passed quickly after a great life.

My wife's mother died last year, it was a very difficult time for the family. Only 60, much too young. Cancer's a bitch and a very, very nasty way to die.

The funeral you described matches pretty much what we had here in Osaka too. It was in June though and we didn't have any "body odor" problems.

One thing they did a bit differently is that a lot of the flowers from her ceremony were put in the coffin with her before she was cremated. She loved her garden and flowers so it might have been something special for her, not sure. It was pretty nice though I have to say.

After filling up the coffin with flowers everyone moved to the crematorium. The Obou-san said his final words and she was slid into the space. Then we all went back to the hall and had lunch!! We came back after lunch to do the bone thing.

Picking up the bones after the cremation wasn't as bad as I expected it to be. The guy at the crematorium kind of lead things and explained what the different bones were.

As you experienced, the staff at the funeral hall were great and very kind.

We had the 1 week ceremony after the cremation. There were small ceremonies at their house each week after that and then on the 7th week a larger ceremony back at the funeral hall. If memory serves these ceremonies are to mark the deceased's movements from place to place towards "heaven".

The one year ceremony is coming up soon. After that I think it is 3 years, then 7, and then 10. I can't remember after that.
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Postby canman » Sun May 10, 2009 8:56 am

Lurker we did the same filling the coffin with flowers especially around her head and face. I felt the same way, I was a little hesitent to do the bone thing, but I think they must break up the bones before they wheel the table out, so you really can't recognize which part was which. but we did have to divide the bones, for example I guess the skull went into one container and then the upper body and then lower body. I thought that in that procedure that the bones were passed from person to person, hence you should not pass food chopsticks to chopsticks, but maybe that is not a tradition here.
One other thing they gave her a small pair of geta and a walking stick and a hat, to assist her on the journey. We also had to write on this fine paper sums of money we wanted her to have and other things on her journey. Then we put rice onto the top of a rice bowl three times and had to tip it into this small white bag backwards. We also had the first 100 days ceremonies done after the funeral, so the next big one for us will be the 100 day, and then this coming Obon.
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Postby CrankyBastard » Sun May 10, 2009 9:14 am

canman, did they show you or pay particular attention to the larynx bone.
It has particular significance because it resembles Buddha sitting in prayer.
The cremation process is done in such a way that this bone is preserved from complete disintegration during the cremation.
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Postby canman » Sun May 10, 2009 9:27 am

No CB not that I am aware of. There was no mention of any special bones. Perhaps it depends on what school of Buddhism the Obousan belongs to.
Unfortunately the other thing about Japanese funerals I don't like is the money aspect. Of course there are the costs of the service itself and everything that goes with it. Now they must find a graveyard to bury the bones in, and for the public graveyard there seems to be a two year waiting list, since the plots are fairly cheap. If you go private it will cost a hell of a lot more. Also since my wife's family didn't have their own Obousan, didn't belong to any specific shrine, they need to find one. Yesterday we were quoted Y600 000, to join one shrine and have him perform the burial ceremony and then each and every subsequent year do the Obon thing etc. What a rip off. Then we will have to get the death name, and I have no idea how much that will cost. There seems to be a real gouging when it comes to death here.
Just a thought perhaps the mods could start a new thread for funerals, we have taken this wedding one into a totally new direction.
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Postby Greji » Sun May 10, 2009 1:45 pm

CrankyBastard wrote:canman, did they show you or pay particular attention to the larynx bone.
It has particular significance because it resembles Buddha sitting in prayer.
The cremation process is done in such a way that this bone is preserved from complete disintegration during the cremation.


I don't think this is unusual. I've been to any number of bonfires for friends and relatives over the years (Amazingly, the number seems to increase as you age!) The latest was for the mums-in-law and the people at the crematorium made a big show of pointing out the "sitting buddha" bone to us. I suppose that does add a personal touch to the devout buddhist family members. Incidentally, they have done this on most of the crematorium visits I've made.
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Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2004 3:00 pm
Location: Yoshiwara
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