Fucked by Japanese landlords-your story wanted

[kusai Jijii]

well, i'm not one of those wankers. i paid the last month's rent, paid the 6000\ to have the proper agency come to take the broken refrigerator to the environmentally proper place, called the ward office to arrange for and paid for the sodai gomi instead of leaving it on the street, paid all the utilities, takubined the modem and all it's bits and bobs to yahoo bb. i was even very forthcoming in pointing out in the inspection exactly where i'd hung things and even went to the effort to hire a cleaning company and had even the a/c unit professionally cleaned.

and he's never had any other foreigners living in his place, so it's not like he has had previous bad experience. he's the wanker here, not me.

Cyka,
I wasn't refering to you, and i certainly wasn't calling you a wanker. I was just, given the title of the thread, and the fact this is a forum, offering the other side of the coin with respect the issue of J-landlords in general. I am sympathetic to the details of your particular experiance, and didnt mean to offend.

[Samurai_Jerk]

In the near two decades I've been here, I've had not a single problem with J-lords. But in all honesty, I have seen one gaijin after the other think he was soooo clever by 'doing a runner' when the last rent was due, not giving a fuck about 'gomi bunbetsu', etc. etc. I'm not saying that FGs are immune to discrimination etc, but there's no shortage of FG wankers who all too readily give the J-lords cause to fuck with us.

Right Take?
Remember that.

That's why I tend to over do it with the cleaning when I move out. I don't want anyone to be able to bitch about the dirty gaijin. I just moved recently and my girlfriend was getting after me about over cleaning since I was going to be charged a fee for that anyway. I tried to explain why but she just thought I was crazy.

[Cyka UchuuJin]

Cyka,
I wasn't refering to you, and i certainly wasn't calling you a wanker. I was just, given the title of the thread, and the fact this is a forum, offering the other side of the coin with respect the issue of J-landlords in general. I am sympathetic to the details of your particular experiance, and didnt mean to offend.

none taken, KJ. i didn't think you were referring to me anyway. was just being overzealous in stating that i am NOT one of the dirty infidel gaijin.

[Greji]

i am NOT one of the dirty infidel gaijin.

I wanna think about that statement before I answer it......

[Cyka UchuuJin]

I wanna think about that statement before I answer it......

you don't wanna know what i been thinking about your statements, G. :P

the end of this story is emminent though. the owner is not answering phone calls or responding to letters in the post. during his last phone call with noriko, in which he hung up on her after she said that we were speaking to that osaka court, he said that he would go photograph all the damage caused by the dirty foreigner, and he would create extra damage to make sure that it was documented.

in other words, i left japan truly a fucked gaijin.

[Iraira]

he said that he would go photograph all the damage caused by the dirty foreigner, and he would create extra damage to make sure that it was documented.

Have your friend ask him how badly he damaged the place after their last talk. Then she is to tell him that you made a nice 10 minute video of the place moments before you finally vacated the place. That should probably end it.

[Cyka UchuuJin]

Have your friend ask him how badly he damaged the place after their last talk. Then she is to tell him that you made a nice 10 minute video of the place moments before you finally vacated the place. That should probably end it.

we can't even get the guy on the phone any more.

hindsight is always 20/20. i know i should have taken pictures before i moved out. i probably should have taken them when i moved in too.

i'm going to japan the end of next month and haven't decided if i want to go cause some trouble or not. i've been having recent thoughts of going there and saying i'd like to buy it and then tying it up for months in paperwork only to say i've changed my mind. and then getting someone else to do the same afterwards.

[GomiGirl]

OK - now I have some time to give you my cousins horror story and its conclusion.

Seems to be lots of parallels.

My cousin found a lovely little place in Nskano ku and everything was hunky dori.. (see what I did there?)

There was a bit of damage (paint scratches on window sills and floor scrapes when the last person moved out but nothing major) when he moved in so took photos and drew up a mud map of the floor plan showing where the marks were and photos. We submitted this to the real estate agent within the first week of moving in. The apartment was in the company name and there were 3 months deposit (1 month non-refundable in lieu of keymoney). All rent was paid by the company on time.

Then bit of back story not really relevent. But the owner lived in an apartment a few stories up and always had her dog in the lift and the dog peed in it every day and it always stank. But I digress.

Then on moving out last June (2008 ) the owner came in on the day that we handed back the keys and we could tell she was going to be a cow. The apartment was clean (not spotless but had been given the once over). No real extra damage other than minor wear and tear. I checked it myself.

But the owner was harping on about the wall paper as there had been smokers living in the apartment. But the wall paper is always replaced when people move out so I could see she was edging for a fight. The real estate agent was there too and he was wet behind the ears and was totally useless. I was there with my assistant and she was being strong and saying that we needed the quote for any repairs within 7 days.

7 days pass we call for the quote. "Nothing yet" says the real estate agent. "Another week to get the quote in".

Another week passes and we call again. Same story.

Another week passes and we call again. Same story but now real estate is saying that the owner is not returning his calls etc.

This continues for a while for a few months and getting more and more frustrated. We were waiting on a good chunk of the 2 months deposit. But the owner was dodging us and the real estate agent.

We demand a meeting with the real estate agent and his boss as the lack of contact was unacceptable after this many months. Lots of apologies and bows etc but still no joy.

We are now coming to the end of 2008 and there is still no contact. My team draft a demand letter for contact and send it registered mail. It was signed and accepted. But still no contact.

I drop by there and there is somebody new living in the apartment. So it had been re-rented but we still hadn't had any contact about return of deposit or what was the costs for repairs etc.

So this escalates with more demands made to the real estate agent and he is still saying that she is not contacting.

I send "the boys" around with demand letters knocking on the door of the owners apartment. Again nothing.

We consult Tokyo Metro real estate claim office and then start legal proceedings. A letter of demand sent from our lawyers to the owner and still nothing.

A court date is set for small claims court arbitration - Feb 2009. The day before the owner calls the office wanting to speak to my "fix it" man who is heading up the proceedings. We refuse to speak to her as it will be in court the next day.

Court day - we show up with original photos, floor plan showing original damage and contact. Owner shows up with photos and quotes for repairs for damage that was just a small amount more than the deposit which is her excuse for not contacting. But most of the damage she was claiming was there before my cousin moved in. Arbitrator says that her lack of contact was unacceptable and she is charged a fine of \100,000 (total amount of "deposit" including key money was \420,000).

We had the choice of taking this money and settling on that day or escalate this further to a full court and judge. Not wanting to cause my staff any more grief, I said that we take the money now.

But the story does not end there...

[GomiGirl]

Story continues:

My fix-it guy wants to go after the real estate agent for their agents fee as they "performed their job badly".

We demand they come in for a meeting and they bring in the quote. The quote that they said they hadn't received but was actually dated a week or two after the move out day. So we had caught them out for lying and covering up as they knew we had the original photos and damage report that covered most of the things on the list.

So we made demands on them for compensation for their poor performance and unprofessional behaviour. There was no guarantee or legal requirement for them to pay up but my fix it guy and my assistant are totally scary when they tag team each other and berate an opponent. I am so glad they are on my team.

In the end, they paid up their agent fee of a months rent of \140,000.

So in total, we got back \240,000 which was amazing. I was hoping for more given the total amount of bullshit we had to go through but it was probably about what we should have received initially given the contract and minor repairs if they were fair.

So the moral of the story. Have a strong negotiator on your side - must be Japanese. Don't give up. Document EVERYTHING. Don't get emotional, don't think that this is persecution due to being a foreigner as you will just get emotional. Stay within the law and use the tools around you that are there (eg Osaka government office)

I think the owner and the real estate just wanted us to shut up and go away and were trying to wait us out by putting us off time and time again. However, this is not in our nature of our company and staff. My boss (and brother) is a big bushido text reader and what he takes from that is that you stay patient, stay strong, never give in and never forget. Retribution may take a long time but to always get it in the end.

[OKLAHOMA]

Landlords keep the deposits 99% of the time. Where are you from?

[OKLAHOMA]

yep, they are. and i did enough of the bending over when the kix detention happened. i'm going to fight the bastard to the end.

What in hell is the "kix detention"?

[OKLAHOMA]

In the near two decades I've been here, I've had not a single problem with J-lords. But in all honesty, I have seen one gaijin after the other think he was soooo clever by 'doing a runner' when the last rent was due, not giving a fuck about 'gomi bunbetsu', etc. etc. I'm not saying that FGs are immune to discrimination etc, but there's no shortage of FG wankers who all too readily give the J-lords cause to fuck with us.

Right Take?
Remember that.

Right. 99% of landlord/tenent problems discussed here are the fault of the Gaijin Engrish teacher tenants, who TRASH the apartments, make noise, harass neighbours and fail to properly sort their garbage, consisting of medical waste and empty beer cans!

[OKLAHOMA]

Gee, you'd think that all of you wildly successful Gaijin would have bought your own properties, rather than continuing to live from paycheque to paycheque.

[Behan]

Right. 99% of landlord/tenent problems discussed here are the fault of the Gaijin Engrish teacher tenants, who TRASH the apartments, make noise, harass neighbours and fail to properly sort their garbage, consisting of medical waste and empty beer cans!

I wouldn't put the number so high. I have heard stories going both ways. There was even a famous gaijin slum lord who was housing Nova teachers in Chiba.

Nova was infamous for overcharging its teachers. They would get two to three times the rent by charging each person they placed in apartments.

I worked with a lady who was harassed by her Japanese landlord after moving out. He called her workplace and complained to the staff there.

But I have, like you said, also heard many cases of bad fg tenants who do things like skip out on their last month's rent.

[Cyka UchuuJin]

thanks for that, GG. you're right, there are a lot of parallels there. what was initially paid in the beginning was:
400.000 key money
250.000 deposit
120.000 first month rent
120.000 agency fee
(edited because i just remembered)
20.000 disinfection
35.000 fire insurance
15.000 building association fee

the agency is not wanting to get involved because they say my claims of general depreciation is too grey of an area.

i haven't at all been emotional when speaking to either noriko or the owner, and have just stated facts. he would get all speechy about foreigners and he never wanted one in there to which i just reply 'then why did you renew the contract twice? and why did you ask us to stay if you reduced the rent when i gave notice?'

i will keep on with this, i don't actually believe i'll get any money back in the end, but i would like to make an example out of him.

[Cyka UchuuJin]

What in hell is the "kix detention"?

Right. 99% of landlord/tenent problems discussed here are the fault of the Gaijin Engrish teacher tenants, who TRASH the apartments, make noise, harass neighbours and fail to properly sort their garbage, consisting of medical waste and empty beer cans!

Gee, you'd think that all of you wildly successful Gaijin would have bought your own properties, rather than continuing to live from paycheque to paycheque.

the kix detention was exactly as it sounded. i was detained in kix.

i was not an english teacher. no trashing (i even made improvements on my own expense), no noise, took my 89 year old neighbour's trash to the rubbish room for her because she has a bad hip, rubbish not only properly sorted every week but i paid for sodai gomi stickers for the big stuff and paid out 6500 to get my broken refrigerator carted away properly rather than stick it out on the street. and i don't drink beer.

you're right about the medical waste though, there was that time that i fell off my bike because a j-girl was putting on makeup and talking on her phone while driving and didn't see the stop sign. i had some pretty nasty scrapes that i had to put plasters on and i DID put my plasters in the bin when i was changing them. thanks so much for pointing out the medical waste issue, i'll call off my complaints to the apartment owner right this instant.

i invested nearly 50 million yen into the country over 4 years in laywers and offices and partnerships and rent. no freakin way was i going to buy an apartment that i knew would quickly depreciate and be impossible to sell later.

but thanks for playing, you're the lucky winner of a nomination for troll of the month!

[OKLAHOMA]

the kix detention was exactly as it sounded. i was detained in kix.

you're right playing, you're the lucky winner of a nomination for troll of the month!

GASP! THE ULTIMATE SANCTION!

What is "kix"?

Really now, you ough to use standard ENGRISH, rather than the regionalisms of your blighted youth.

Also, "plasters" are known as "band-aids" in most of the ENGRISH-speaking world.

A "bin" is a "garbage can". Ditto.

Property is NOT limited to condominiums.

Ever hear of "houses"?

[OKLAHOMA]

I wouldn't put the number so high. I have heard stories going both ways. There was even a famous gaijin slum lord who was housing Nova teachers in Chiba.

I rent out 4 units in my building. Had an ENGRISH teacher once. I had to finally evict him by placing his "worldly posessions" out on the street and change the locks. He had no work visa either, someone ratted him out and he went back to OZ real fast.

[GomiGirl]

GASP! THE ULTIMATE SANCTION!

What is "kix"?

Really now, you ough to use standard ENGRISH, rather than the regionalisms of your blighted youth.

Also, "plasters" are known as "band-aids" in most of the ENGRISH-speaking world.

A "bin" is a "garbage can". Ditto.

Property is NOT limited to condominiums.

Ever hear of "houses"?

Way to make friends Noob.

1. KIX is Kansai International Airport
2. Plasters are used in British English rather than ripping off a brand name.
3. Bin - ditto above

English has lots of flavours and spellings.

[American Oyaji]

Way to make friends Noob.

1. KIX is Kansai International Airport
2. Plasters are used in British English rather than ripping off a brand name.
3. Bin - ditto above

English has lots of flavours and spellings.

Ignore him GG. I've already decided he's an asshole.

[wuchan]

GASP! THE ULTIMATE SANCTION!

What is "kix"?

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[Behan]

GASP! THE ULTIMATE SANCTION!

What is "kix"?

Really now, you ough to use standard ENGRISH, rather than the regionalisms of your blighted youth.

Also, "plasters" are known as "band-aids" in most of the ENGRISH-speaking world.

A "bin" is a "garbage can". Ditto.

Property is NOT limited to condominiums.

Ever hear of "houses"?

Her English is just fine. Band-Aid is a brand name for plasters. I'm not so sure about it being more common than 'plaster'. I would guess that Commonwealth Countries, some of which have big populations like India and Pakistan, use the term 'plaster'. That's what my Pakistani room used.

And BTW, if you are going to point fingers about English usage, you 'ought' to spell 'ough'(sic) correctly. I believe 'ough' is not the 'standard' spelling.

[sillygirl]

Way to make friends Noob.

1. KIX is Kansai International Airport
2. Plasters are used in British English rather than ripping off a brand name.
3. Bin - ditto above

English has lots of flavours and spellings.

Beat me to it, Gomi.

most of the ENGRISH-speaking world !! LOL!

This is just the differences between Brit/US/Aussie english...tissues - v- kleenex etc etc.

But anyhoo - back on topic:

[omae mona]

Gee, you'd think that all of you wildly successful Gaijin would have bought your own properties, rather than continuing to live from paycheque to paycheque.

Perhaps your lack of financial sense might be one of the reasons you're not wildly successful. Personally, I know the rent I've paid for my rented house over the last several years is a small fraction of the interest and depreciation I would have experienced as an owner of a similar property. I am absolutely thrilled to be a renter instead of a property owner (though I feel quite sorry for my landlord).

And I'm not even wildly successful! But I am definitely better off than I would be if I had bought a property recently.

[GuyJean]

Who let the idiot in? I told you guys to close the door when I'm not around!

GJ

[sillygirl]

[quote="GuyJean"]Who let the idiot in? I told you guys to close the door when I'm not around! ]

Someone left the cat flap unlocked...

[Iraira]

20.000 disinfection

Would you care to go into detail regarding how you were disinfected at such a low price? I have to pay through the nose (which I have plenty of) for such "services".

[Cyka UchuuJin]

wuchan for the WIN!

ira, i can only imagine the kind of disinfection that you require. all those late night trips down to ropps and all...

oklahoma, 'ropps' is slang for roppongi. i'd be happy to fill you in on any other slang or commonly used airport codes if you require. i know you don't get out much, being in ibaraki and all.

i'm starting to think that you're actually a japanese in gaijin disguise. as you've spelled things such as 'paycheque' and 'neighbour' in the queens english, but then would prefer to call a plaster a 'band-aid'. perhaps you've been dumped by one of these 'engrish' teachers that you speak so poorly of?

[Iraira]

ira, i can only imagine the kind of disinfection that you require. all those late night trips down to ropps and all...

Please, I quit Thigh Touch Town after I convinced all the Nigerian catch folks that I was into dismemberment. I'm busy trying to make Nakano-ku into a den of iniquity.

[Saru Paradise]